(12-16-17) Sermon - Jeff Pippenger - Straw Man - (QwJ7jZZGFug)




Publish Date: 12/20/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (12-16-17) Sermon - Jeff Pippenger - Straw Man-QwJ7jZZGFug
YouTube ID: QwJ7jZZGFug



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you the scripture reading was about cause and effect I don't know if we'll get to that point in the presentation the day but that's the purpose the curse causeless doesn't come the curse is the effect there has to be a cause in your notes on the top of the pages is a quote that has nothing to do with anything here today I have referred to this off and on through the years I knew that I'd seen it once and I came across it in my stage day so I'm throwing it in there in case I've said this in front of you when we make it to the heavenly City it's the father that opens the gate for us to enter in minor thought but I knew I read it when I said it publicly and everyone always asked where's it out it's in review in Herald September 21st 1886 we are saying because God loves the purchase of the blood of Christ and not only will he pardon the repentant sinner not only will he permit him to enter Heaven but he the father of mercies will wait at the very gates of heaven to welcome us to give us an abundant abundance entrance to the mansions of the Blessed okay the first few quotes here I'm not going to spend time with I think they're familiar I've dealt with him I think in the last presentation a little bit I've had to understanding personally for years that the first doctrine for Adventism was a Sabbath this is one of the places in early writings where sister White was taken into the most holy place seeing the ten commandments and saw that the Sabbath commandment glowed above the other Commandments and I understand that that is the first doctrine that was going to test them at that point and because of this next quote I understood the last doctrine would be the doctrine of the Incarnation and you have that quote there so I've understood that in this movement in this message when we reach the end the last doctrine that will be argued about or caused a shaking will be the doctrine of the Incarnation I believe that is here I believe there we are at the final shaking where everything that can be shaken will be and I believe that in the near future some of us won't be attending this church together any longer because that's the kind of circumstances that are portrayed in this time period this third quote there at the bottom of page one is just another quote about the Sabbath where it's talking about the Sabbath being a sign of sanctification and a sign of the oneness with him the Sabbath was the first doctrine jesus illustrates the end with the beginning so I'm just repeating Sabbath incarnation and then on the next page you'll see that the Incarnation you have a quote there is the mystery of godliness and in revelation 10 verse 7 during the sounding of the seventh trumpet the mystery of godliness will be finished the finishing of the mystery of godliness this quote will allow you to see is the finishing of the Incarnation in his people which also the sabbath illustrates to end also illustrates the beginning but in that third quote on page one go back to page one it says the third quote those who commune with God walk in the light of the Sun of righteousness they do not dishonor their Redeemer by corrupting their way before God heavenly light shines upon them as they near the close of this Earth's history their knowledge of Christ and of the prophecies relating to him greatly increased this is the students of prophecy at the end of the world they are of infinite worth in God's sight for they are in unity with his son there isn't a bunch of different ideas unity is based upon truth the people she's speaking about here are in unity with Christ therefore they are in unity with one another to them the Word of God is of surpassing beauty and loveliness they see its importance truth is unfolded to them the doctrine of the Incarnation and it is invested with a soft radiance so I am suggesting that about three months ago or so roughly I knew I purposely brought something up about the Incarnation that maybe that's why I'm a little bit sensitive about this reason why I said something in Sabbath school class the Incarnation doesn't take place at Christ's birth but for the past few months I've understood that it that this is probably going to take place know the final shaking and I said something in at school and I there's a sister whose influence was here last week there's a sister I knew would respond and she responded immediately saying I got problems they got problems with what you're saying so my point to her was okay you write out all the the terminologies that you think are associated with the nature of Christ and the nature of man give me the definition and give me two or three proof texts for your understanding of you know evil propensities animal propensities lower propensity 'he's these type of issues you go ahead you define them and then it's a at the Lord for the definition and that when we start through this in school I'll use your your list as a point of reference I'm not promising I'm gonna agree with all your conclusions but her and I have been working friendly for years she's a good friend I knew this was a point of concern for her her primary point of concern but then we went to Australia and while we were in Australia I got a letter from the same neck of the woods an email saying Jeff you need to take down partners first two presentations okay so what was going on here last Sabbath what was going on here laba this is an extension of the very first presentation that Parminder did here whether you understand it or not and I want you to understand it because I want you to understand cause and effect you need to know what you're dealing with okay so hopefully we'll get there but in that time period I'm in Australia I'm hearing that permission is raised in this very same subject it was it anything that we thought about it then you know we could I'm leaving as he's coming in to start the school and for whatever reason he starts it on the nature of Christ and it starts the fireworks going but in the in the meantime I was personally in this in this room Sabbath and I heard in a Sabbath school class a brief overview of Romans seven and I was kind of distracted but I thought whatever I heard if that's what I heard it's wrong but I for once I'm not going to raise my voice okay that's I usually in Sabbath school class if I hear something wrong I'm going to say something I just did and I figured there's enough people in here that I don't know this that I don't have to be the one that deals with that maybe I didn't hear it right anyway okay so on page 2 where it says the Romans 7 man do you know why I call it the Romans 7 man over the past month I've been realizing many of you in this room do not know why I would call it the Romans 7 man what I took for just standard understanding I'm realizing we don't know anymore okay in the in the in 1957 when this church accepted the Protestant Salvation theology there became a battle in Adventism that went on through the 70s the 80s I don't know that it goes on anymore because I haven't been engaged in the Sabbath schools of the seventh-day Adventist Church for quite some time but when I came into self-supporting ministry I came into a ministry called Hope International and the whole purpose for Hope International and Heartland was to battle the subject of the inroads of new theology and one of the primary arguments was Romans 7 man is the man in Romans 7 a converted man or an unconverted man it's an unconverted man okay but there was an argument about that back when and the argument was based upon people that have the wrong understanding of justification and sanctification and the reason they have the wrong understanding of justification and sanctification is they have the wrong understanding of the nature of Christ okay so when I'm talking about cause and effect if you have the wrong understanding of the nature of Christ is going to produce a wrong understanding of justification and sanctification and it's going to impact how you read things in the Bible so I want to show you something in Romans 7 verses 7 through 2 five and I'd this is probably all the father will get unfortunately because this is really just a launching pad but in verse seven Paul's going to describe a a an experience here and in your notes or it says the Romans seven man and has forty eight times I counted it a couple times it's either 46 48 or 49 but in verses 7 through 25 which is 19 verses I'm gonna go with 48 but I'm sure that I'm wrong by 1 or 2 in 19 verses Paul either says I or me or myself 48 times which equates to two point three times per verse okay so verses 7 through 25 he's saying iiiii was Paul inspired okay so this is one argument the Brethren have that this is a converted man this is Paul's testimony he's given his testimony and you can't get away from the fact that this is Paul at least 48 times he says this is me okay and you know that he was inspired that he was a sanctified man so if you take it at that level then you may very well argue that he's a converted man but you're making a fatal mistake okay verse 7 I'm gonna go kind of quick through this because I want to get to verse 24 and 25 for the punch line what should we say then is the law sin god forbid nay I had not known sin but by the law for I had not known lust except the law had said thou shalt not covet but sin taking occasion by the commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence for without the law sin was dead for I was alive without the law once but the commandment came sin revived and I died and the commandment which was ordained of life I found to be unto death for sin taking occasion by the commandment deceived me and by it slew me wherefore the law is holy in the holy and just and good was then that which is good made death unto me god forbid but sin that it might appear sin working death in me by that which is good that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful for we know that the law is spiritual but I am carnal sold under sin pardon me they're intelligent for that which I do I allow not for what I would that do I not but what I hate that do i if then I do that which I would not I consent under the law that it is good now then it is no more I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me for I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing for to will is present with me how but how to perform that which is good I find not for the good that I would I do not but the evil which I would not that I do now if I do that I would not it is no more I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me I find in a law that when I would do good evil is present with me for I delight in the law of God after the inward man but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members the next verse is what people will use to argue that he's a converted man verse 24 says o wretched man that I am who shall be able to deliver me from this body of death I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord he said Jesus has delivered me from this body of death therefore everything he said evidently is a description of a converted experience so then with my mind I myself serve the law of God but with the flesh the law of sin Prime endured brought out Parminder did a very excellent work here this trimester and one of the things he bought out brought out is that in the writings of Paul Paul addresses two classes of unconverted people the Jews and the Gentiles and he doesn't repeatedly in a variety of ways okay if the three groups are the converted Christian and either the Jews and the Gentiles okay and you can see this under three groups I have summarized what the verses say Paul is in these verses those with the law and those without the law the Jews had the law the pagans didn't have the law that's 1st Corinthians 9 19 through 21 so there's a an unconverted group that doesn't have the law and an unconverted group that has the law okay in romans 1 15 and 6 needs is Paul the gospel preacher and the Jew and the Greek now these two unconverted groups are the Jews they have the law and the Greek they don't have the law and in Galatians 3:27 through 29 it's Abraham's seed and the Jew and the Greek okay if your Christ and you're Abraham's seed if you're a Christian you're a Barents Abraham's seed but there's two classes of unconverted out there the Jew and the Greek okay if you're gonna bring this down to our day and age it would be seventh-day Adventist and netha NIMS right it's providing your conversion if you're not then you're just 70 AD - okay now I have the whole passage from Colossians 3:1 through 11 but I'll just take the first verse and drop to the end if you then be risen with Christ okay so he's talking about a converted person and you drop down to the third line from the bottom it begins and have put on the new man is renewed in the knowledge after the image of him that created him where there is neither Greek nor Jew there's the two classes circumcision or uncircumcision same two classes barbarian Scythian same two classes bond nor free for Christ is all and in all so if you don't recognize that Paul addresses unconverted humanity as those under the law and those without the law but they're both unconverted then you're gonna miss who he's talking about in Romans 7 because Paul can't tell you in the first person I was a pagan without God without the law tell you that he never was that way what he was is the Pharisees Pharisee he was under the law and he struggled with the law but he wasn't a Christian he was unconverted and in Romans 7 that's what he's dealing with like to be able to show that to you I'm gonna break down these verses here in verse 25 it says I alone since I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord so then with the mind I that's Greek 1473 myself okay I myself kind of a doubling of the personal pronoun right I myself serve the law of God this first word that's translated I is ego a primary pronoun of the first person only expressed within Phatak yes yes see the difference between yes and allowed yes it's in Phatak okay I emphatic he's making a point here but the next the next Greek word is almost the same thing the next Greek word is ha - I don't know exactly how to pronounce it but it's translated as Otto so that's pretty easy one for us Otto I alone I Otto in Otto is a contraction for 1438 it means self you followed down means alone so Paul's saying is I alone I alone but it's more than that it's not is it's not just a general general thought I alone it's a contradiction to everything else of the Paul teaches okay so if you if you drop down the line where it says Galatians 2:20 what's Galatians 2:20 say pardon me I'm crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not i so is he alone no he's living Paul is living with Christ what's for olympians 4:13 say I can do all things through what Christ ok Paul understands that he has to be connected with Christ when Paul is speaking he's speaking about his connection with Christ that's his whole tenor Ephesians 4:23 as well and I'm not remembering all these does someone remember it you know look them up in everything but Ephesians 4:23 is be renewed in the spirit of your mind how about Romans 8:10 we're dealing with Roman so that's right close Romans 8 10 and if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin but the Spirit is life because of righteousness Paul's presentation of the correct experience is to have Paul connected United with the Holy Spirit with Christ so here in the verse we're considering verse 25 of Romans 7 so then with my mind I alone I myself serve the law of God he's talking about a Jew that's trying to keep the law of God without the biting presence of the Holy Spirit I alone he's saying I can tell you I can use the word me my and I 48 times in 19 verses to describe this unconverted Jewish person because that's who I was that was my experience and I was doing it strictly on my own strengths he infected says I alone without Christ that's the point he's making here now he does it divergence right there in verse 24 and 25 that might cause us to be confused but before we move away from this alone that is translated from the Greek to the word Otto I just have some thoughts there for you automobile a self-propelled vehicle automatic self acting device Auto suggestion self hypnosis autonomy self government autobiography self-written life history Otto means yourself it's a extreme emphasis that Paul's putting here I alone love the law of God but I'm incapable of overcoming my fleshly powers because I do not have the in filling of the Holy Spirit so then so then dropping down to verse 25 you see verse 25 in your notes so then so then do you see that in your Bible that's it's going to say the King James what's the King James gonna say sister Cathy it's going to say still then don't look I'm just referring to your presentation on the King James I've doubled up so thought so then in for for those of us that are students of prophecy if there's a justification for doubling it up it might turn on some lights about doubling but that isn't I don't see that in here but I do want you to see that the words here that are translated are so then are Aurra a noun and ARA means then or therefore and al means then or therefore and in the original it's our own but instead of the translator saying therefore therefore or so then so then they just dropped one of them off they drop the owner off and kept the so then do you follow what I'm saying that do you all follow what I'm saying in the Greek there are two words but the two words mean the same thing they mean either therefore or so then and when these two words were recognized by the translators of this verse they said we're not going to put so then so and we're just gonna put so than once we're not gonna be redundant you follow me okay so they didn't put there for there for now do you follow me okay because the primary reason the primary definition of owned is there for but there is a secondary there is a secondary usage of this word in the scriptures and I want to show you what it is you see this word therefore or a similar English word sometimes and it doesn't mean therefore it means returning to the subject I was just at okay let me show you this I have some passages here in these verses that are underlined so I'm under pops top of page 4 John 4 verses 5 & 6 says then cometh he to the city of Samaria Samaria now the this next little string of words it's got an underline under it and what I'm saying is John is saying then he comes to Samaria and now John's going to tell you something outside the flow of information he's going to tell you something about Samaria itself instead of telling you about the trip that Jesus is making the notices then cometh he to the city of Samaria which is called Sychar near the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph now Jacob's Well was there Jesus therefore this is o N and this word can mean now I'm returning to the former subject I just stepped out of Jesus therefore being wearied with his journey so if you go back to the beginning of these verses it says then cometh he to the city of Samaria being wearied of his journey set the saan the well and it was about the 6:00 hour this word own which means therefore means at a secondary lever to return to the previous subject follow me give you another example of it John 6 22 through 24 the day following when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat they're saved the one we're into his disciples were entered and Jesus went and out with his disciples into the boat but that his disciples were gone away alone now here's the underlined howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias and I unto the place where they did eat bread after the Lord had given things when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there neither his disciples they also took shipping and came to Capernaum seeking for Jesus Luke three three through seven and it came to pass in all the country about Jordan preaching and he came into all the country about Jordan preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins and then you're going to get a quote about who John the Baptist is as it is written in the Book of Isaiah the prophet saying the voice of one crying in the wilderness prepare you the way of the Lord make straight his meat his paths straight every Valley shall be filled in every mountain and Hill should be brought low and their crooked shall be made straight in the rough way shall be made smooth and all flesh shall see the salvation of God then or there for our own return to the thought that you stepped out of the thought you stepped out of I was preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him o generation of vipers who hath warmed you to flee from the wrath to come you see how this word means now returning to the previous thought or however you want to express it but you see what I mean okay there's a couple other examples there there are other examples in the Word of God but I've given this five and I'm going to drop down to the bottom of the page this is Romans 7 24 and 25 Oh wretched man that I am Who Shall deliver me from this but from the body of this death I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord so then back to the original subject with my mind I alone void of the Holy Spirit served the law of God a Pharisee among Pharisees was his testimony but with the flesh the law of sin a Pharisee above among Pharisee he sought to serve the law of God but he did not have the ability to live a sinless life I don't know that that's what I'm saying I'm saying that he's using his previous life as an example of an unconverted Jew and not an unconverted pagan therefore he's showing the unconverted Jew that genuinely wants to keep the law of God but is incapable of doing it because he is emphatically alone without the presence of the Holy Spirit therefore the Romans 7 man is an unconverted man the reason that I wanted to put this in place is because if you're going to consider the Romans 7 man a converted man then what you're going to have to do with is all the verses in there where he says I'm carnal and sold under sin your definition of sanctification requires that you identify that sanctification includes ongoing sin in your life and this is the Protestant definition of justification and sanctification that this church accepted in the 30s 40s and 50s but put into the away mark in 1957 I don't know I wasn't thinking about the Sabbath school class today perhaps I'm saying I was thinking about this while you guys were having Sabbath school I wasn't paying too close attention sorry but my point is is if you have the genuine understanding of sanctification I used to work with a guy that did that all he does not work with but from time to time we would work together we were friends up until 9/11 he couldn't accept 9/11 but he spends his time touring around Adventism teaching about salvation theology and when he gets to this point he talks about two trees okay the tree that is the sanctification and justification of apostate Protestantism it's got fruit on it that are some of the insects of Eden some of the fruits moldy some of its rotten there's some good fruit on that tree but the the definition of sanctification justification in Protestant Christianity allows for there to be some corrupt fruit on that tree whereas our understanding is that a good tree bringeth forth good fruit period okay so there's a there's a completely different definition of sanctification if you have the wrong understanding of sanctification you'll read Romans 7 and you're gonna argue well this is a converted map Paul was converted he wrote this look at there in verse 24 he says I thank God that he's delivered me from this me from this even though I'm telling you this is my ongoing experience so if you have the wrong definition of sanctification you'll make some wrong conclusions about the Romans 7 man and the only reason I called it a Romans 7 man is because in the 70s and 80s in Adventism that was a common term that was being tossed around as people argued about Romans 7 if you weren't here during that time period you didn't know that but it was that's why I use this title this is a chapter that has a title from Adventism because of the argument but one step backward we're talking about cause and effect the reason you come up with this flawed idea about sanctification is because you have a flawed idea about the nature of Christ do you think that Christ had the nature of Adam before Adam fell or after he fell it makes all the difference in the world if you think Christ took that nature of Adam before sin then Christ is simply your substitute he's going to give you salvation but you're gonna sin because there's no way to overcome this sinful body that he refused to take if he would have took the sinful body that was given from Adam on down through history then he would have been a sinner and he couldn't have fulfilled his work of being our substitute so he didn't take that body he's strictly our substitute and because he strictly our substitute we're incapable and living a sin free life because we're stuck with the body of Adam's body after the fall everyone following me but if you think that Christ took the flesh of Adam four thousand years into history and he gave us an example that we can live victoriously in spite of the degeneration that's went on in the flesh then he is not only our substitute but he is our example okay and seventh-day adventists by and large until the 1950s understood it that way correctly that when it says he took our sinful flesh it meant that he took our sinful flesh became one if you don't think he did that then he didn't come all the way down that ladder either Jacobs or Peters it didn't cry quite reach the earth so just keeping that in mind what I'm saying if you don't understand the nature of Christ correctly then you're it's going to cause and effect to produce an understanding in you where your definition of sanctification and justification is flawed and if you're approaching the scriptures with those two steps in place and you can come to a passage like Romans 7 and think that maybe Paul because he was inspired was a converted man he's describing himself as a converted man but we shouldn't be in that position here at the end of the world because the last doctrine that shakes this message and movement is the doctrine of the Incarnation and the Incarnation is about the blending of divinity and humanity we have to be straight about these issues okay so I'm saying now I'm on the top of page 5 and now I'm ready to begin Hebrews 12 verse 23 to 29 but you were come to Mount Zion and into the city of the Living God the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerable company of angels to the General Assembly and the Church of the firstborn which are written in heaven and to God the judge of all and to the spirits of just men made perfect to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant perfect fulfillment of the New Covenant is the covenant in hand there is in - with 144,000 and I left off where and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better things than that of Abel see that you free refused not him that speaketh for if they escape not who refused him that spake on earth much more shall not we escape if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven whose voice then shook the earth but now he has promised saying yet once more I shake not the Earth only but also heaven and this word yet yet once more signifies the removing of those things that are shaken as the things that are made that those things which cannot be shaken shall be remained shall remain and this is the verse that I want to use a little bit here we're now entering the shaking the final shaking and you could put a line of study into this if you wished and you can go into the spirit of prophecy and you can demonstrate that what causes the shaking is the introduction of false doctrine and some will stand up against the false doctrine and this will cause the shaking you can lay that easily lay that out easily in her writings I just didn't want you to see though that the shaking has to do with truth and error it's not about this church building burning down or a flood in Arkansas or me having to declare bankruptcy the shaking that comes upon God's people at the end of the world has to do with truth and error and I'm saying because the first truth introduced to Adventism after the great disappointment was the sabbath that jesus illustrates the end the last truth with the subject of the Incarnation and the object of the incarnation is here and you've seen some of the results of that shaking within the past seven days right here okay you may not know what people that that we're pushing those buttons may not know it but I know and I'm gonna give you a warning whether you will receive it or not and I understand there's a lot of people in here that have all the reasons in the world not to listen to a warning that's coming for me but I'm gonna be free and clear on this one you're gonna hear the warning okay so let's walk down through this from Bible Training School March 1st 1915 a great Reformation isn't needed among the people of God many sapless and unfruitful branches are to be removed from the parent vine everything will be shaken that can be shaken that that which cannot be shaken may remain the enemy has worked upon the minds of some and has led that led them to do violence to our past experience by mingling with the truth erroneous and false theories he has led ministers and teachers to even to their doctrines some pleasing figures of his own invention every deviation from truth as we have advocated it in the past is a departure from truth that has been witnessed by the Holy Spirit and upon which God has placed his seal truth must stand in its own order linked only with truth unbelief disturbs the balance of the system of truth and tends to destroy the whole the mind that cherishes sentiments that tend to destroy the foundation of the faith that has made us what we are becomes confused and cannot discern between truth and error the truths that have been substantiated by the manifest working of God God or to stand fast that no one presumed to move a pin or a foundation stone from the structure those who attempt to undermine the pillars of our faith are among those of whom the Bible says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils what I want you to see in this is that there comes a point in time where everything that can be shaken will be shaken and that it has to do with truth and error and I'm arguing that the last doctrinal shaking has to do with the Incarnation okay and in the next quote we're familiar with here this is from Isaiah 66 I've read this in your presence many time where sister white is speaking about Isaiah 66 that the Lord is going to choose their delusions she taught she turns it in to second Thessalonians strong delusion and says that those people that are going to receive these delusions they're building a different foundation than that which has been built so we're familiar with this and of course the Isaiah 28 15 through 18 is where they're making a covenant with death it's the counterfeit foundation and the Covenant of death is based upon lies just like the strong delusion of 2nd Thessalonians and last week in your Sabbath school it was stated one thing I would like to point out to everybody the only thing you can will yourself to is to choose God and place your will into his hand and then he will place all these good desires in your heart to choose the right thing you have no power of your own none whatsoever to will yourself not to sin ever again and those that believe that are only deceiving themselves they're deceived by the lies of the devil brothers and sisters if you heard any of this nonsense last week in the context that this is what Parminder by aunt taught in school during that trimester you just believed a lie he never said that one time and if you drop to the very last quote in these these passages I'll show you the very first quote he put in the record page 8 last quote the lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it the words flesh or fleshly or carnal lusts embrace the lower corrupt Nate sure underline this next statement it was his point from the very beginning it's because he started here that I got the email while I was in Australia from people in a certain neck of the woods saying you need to take those two presentations down this next statement the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God brothers and sisters I'm in dialogue with a sister on this subject for incarnation and it's that little group in this movement that is struggling over this and from the very first introduction that Parminder made with this their cry was he's saying we can save ourselves by our own will never said that once either people are blind or they're bearing false witness he never said that but what you need to understand so you can understand the cause and effect is the brethren that had their voice echoed here last Saba's they very distinctly teach and believe that sin is more than choice your fleshly lower nature is also sin and that's why at the prophecy school Parminder fully knowing that reached a point in his presentation where one of them answered from the floor in this regard and he said well then you're teaching the Omega what he meant by that is we've understood that mark Bruce and and those people that are following that line of teaching that they think when you get to some point in the future that they've marked at midnight then there's sin that you are unaware of that you're unable to eliminate from yourself that the Lord during that period of time is going to remove it from you they're not teaching the same thing but they are they're teaching that at some place down the road this sin that is your lower fleshly nature is somehow going to be removed from you and it is the Bible is clear about that but the Bible is clear that it's not sin our lower fleshly nature gets resolved at the second coming of Christ were and we're given glorified bodies we don't get that resolution before then and that's what they're teaching they're teaching that sin is more than choice that it's also our lower fleshly nature and where they what they can't see among other things is sisters White's use of some of her words particularly propensity okay because sister white uses the word propensity in a lot of different ways and if you want to go in and be a careful student some of those propensity she never ever one time associates with Christ but some of those propensity z' she does that group that believes that to have these propensities is sin is the group that's arguing to place your efforts upon the will is a delusion choice isn't what it's about there's something magical going to happen down here now brothers and sisters whether you saw it or not Parminder in his class repeatedly repeatedly over and over again taught that we are called to be converted in this history here his punch line was when you get here this is the baptism of Christ is it not the baptism from this point on if you're baptized you're supposed to be walking hand in hand with the Holy Spirit there's no there's no qualification there's no justification not to he's never once Parminder and everyone says oh this is this is the time period where we could have a scene and repent sin and repent his whole prophetic narrative was putting in place that when you get to 9/11 you have been called to be walking in perfect victory over sin from this point on but you know what at the end of the world the people in this movement they're not real sure about what it means that we've been made in the image of God they're not really real sure that that we've had a higher and a lower nature Paul would say flesh mind sister White says higher lower they haven't looked real carefully about the different components that are laid out in inspiration that have to do with the higher nature what about intellect what about memory what about reason are those part of the higher or the lower what about conscience I'm probably spelling that wrong what about will this one here brothers and sisters according to inspiration I have some quotes here if you go back to the page according to inspiration when it comes to the higher nature when it comes to how we were created and fearfully and wonderfully made in the image of God the will the will is where we're to place our emphasis that's just what Parminder did he took this subject identified the various components their relationship and said to God's people in this message around the world that if you were experiencing sin and repent sin and repent experience you need to stop and your focus in on the lower nature it's not to be on your own intellect you don't need to read no more books you don't need to take some herbs to improve your memory you need to pace your focus on the will so he spent time pacing his focus on the will and immediately those people that think that there is sin in your flesh from the very first reference which was this reference we read the flesh can do nothing of itself they began to say he's teaching that you can save yourself by your own strength nonsense that's a lie that's a lie sister white places to say emphasis upon the will I'm on page six all true obedience comes from the heart it was heart work with Christ is he our example or is he just our substitute if you think that your flesh has guilt associated with it he ain't your example he's just your substitute and if we consent he will so identify himself with our thoughts and aim so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to his will that when obeying him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses you mean on my own impulse I can be obedient to God that's what inspiration says the will refined and sanctified will find its highest delight in doing his service when we know God as it is our privilege to know him our life will be a life of continual obedience through an appreciation of the character of Christ through communion with God sin will become hateful to us the next quotes say the same thing I'll drop down to the the big one before the bottom just the boldface what you need to understand how do you understand something study it you have to study it on your own yeah you can can you hear it from a teacher would it be okay for a teacher to teach this especially when inspiration says what you need to understand so is it okay to teach about the role of the will without being accused of saying that you save in yourself through your home human strength particularly mind you that this particular argument is coming from a small little group that believe that we are guilty because of our flesh that's original sin yet very Catholic isn't it and it's based upon one letter probably no one in this room except those that I've told this to already know about this letter except for maybe Jackie and Dwayne I think they living in Loma Linda for a long time they'd have to know about this letter this argument that we're dealing with come from one letter it's probably got 12 pages and it's only a few paragraphs now let's call the Baker letter never heard of the Baker letter what was Baker dealing with brothers and sisters what was she rebuking him for it's called adoptionism you know what adoptionism is does it really matter it's like the most obscure passage on that subject and it's used to uphold the whole premise of new theology the Baker's grappling with adoptionism do you know what adoptionism in is Christ only became Christ when he was adopted he was adopted at the baptism he lived a regular human life for 30 years okay he was adopted now that's a Catholic or wherever it comes from back in the early centuries yeah centuries and centuries but it was still predominant in early millerite history and there was still pastors up into the 20th century they're grappling with adoptionism and if you understand what adoptionism is and you go in and read the baker letter she's doing with a guy that was trying to figure out how to teach that Christ Christ was thirty years old and he was playing with sin for thirty years but when he was adopted at his baptism then he was perfect from that point on okay it's crazy it's crazy that you would take three paragraphs and manipulate it in that way to uphold the idea that our lower nature brings guilt upon us okay now I have to let me read this one thing what Jay did I finished that every what you need to understand is the true force of the will this is the governing power in the nature of man the power of decision or of choice everything depends on the right action of the will everything depends on the right action of the will you're gonna hear you know you can get the cart before the horse you can hear people say well your will isn't going to do anything worthwhile unless it's connected with God well it doesn't get connected with God unless you choose for it to be connected with God you have to choose what we do is very small but it's an exercise of our will into to think that we give our will to Christ and then he exercises our will is a delusion we have to continue to exercise our will in agreement with his will all the way through the power of choice has given God has given to man it is theirs to exercise last sentence there from mine character and personality when the will is placed on the Lord side the Holy Spirit takes that will and makes it one with the divine will now I want to read something from Wagner I had a whole bunch in Jones and Waggoner I don't talk about Jones and Waggoner very much people don't realize I was a Jones and Waggoner guy for a long time the reason I was a Jones and Waggoner guy wasn't because I necessarily chose to but because I was bumping head with the 1888 message Study Committee and there the ministry that professes to be the modern representatives of Jones and Waggoner and they were dead wrong so if you're thinking because you never hear me talk about Jones and wag that I haven't looked at their material just so you know I have I'm familiar with Jones and Waggoner and they're just there's one thought in here and you won't get it until I read it back into it so it's kind of long so I need to get going on it but I want you to see in this first paragraph he's dealing with people that are going to say they have they've accepted the theory of righteousness by faith you either have it or you don't have it but 1888 was typifying 9/11 we're in this very same time period and there's going to be people that have a theory about victory over sin and they're dead wrong the next summer after the Minneapolis median there was a good brother whom I met for the first time with the close of the meeting said that he had received help and light that he had been misinformed he was sure in regard to the Minneapolis meeting and the work which he had had been done and he was glad to be able to see some of the things for himself glad to see and received justification of faith by faith then thinking how it sounded for a preacher to say that he had learned to accept justification by faith he added of course we always believed in justification by faith but we have not known what it was well brethren I've seen a good many hundred people since that time who believed in justification by faith but did not know what it was and that among seventh-day adventists or a great many who think they believe it and who do believe it who have accepted it to a certain extent only as a theory they have taken it as a new article of faith there is no such thing as a theory of justification of faith it is a fact that is all and there are wonderfully few people who allow that fact to get into them for all that it's worth now these words came to me here I will put my trust in him cover the whole ground that text is everything just a kata fication by faith is not simply one series or line of truth to be presented to the people it is the whole truth it is the third angel's message there is thing else is there anything else in the world we want to accept righteousness does not that include everything because righteousness we understand is not simply to be a streak in a man's life it is not simply something for Sabbath what is righteousness doing right doing the right thing I would ask you how do you do the right thing you choose to do the right thing oh you're just said Jeff that you're saving yourself here oh it's through your own strength no I didn't say that so you choose to do the right thing and you choosing to do the right thing based upon the foundation that's been established by the Word of God in your experience and through the influence of the Holy Spirit but it doesn't stop there if you don't choose you don't do the right thing it all depends on the right exercise of will and if there's anything a people needs such as this people in this room and who watch on their web right now is the truth on how to get out of the experience of sin and repent sin and repent sin and repent and I'm here to tell you that the emphasis is it all depends on the correct exercise of the will to avoid that is to sign your death warrant what Parminder was teaching was the third angel's message and it got attacked the same way that Jones and Wagner's message got attacked as soon as it came in the very first class it was misrepresented and it was rip misrepresented all the way through and was done again here lasts a booth does that include everything because righteousness we unders is doing the right thing doing right doing the right thing instead of the wrong thing that is righteousness not only doing a certain thing right instead of doing it wrong but always doing the right thing instead of doing the wrong thing it's not that simple enough plain enough to what righteousness is now of what is a man's life compose his actions see right here brothers and sisters the people that have a problem with my Mandir would have a pomander with problem with Wagner because Wagner is going to say right here it's actions actions are choices okay I sent an email to one of these persons here this week where sister White's real course is the only definition in the Word of God is that sin is the transgression of the law and they sent back to me and started working around how no there is there is kind of a secondary definition about our lower nature but sister white says more than once the only definition for sin is the transgression of the law and to transgress means you have to choose to transgress you have to act a man's life is his actions if he acts right he is right we're not going to going into the cause of the thing we're considering the thing itself we're not now considering do you realize what he says we're not going into the cause of the thing this is this is what was so wrong about what was said about Parminder Parminder spent hours over here going into the cause of the thing he explained that righteousness is a state of being okay but right doing is an action there are two different things if you are righteous you will have right actions so this is what Wagner's saying he says I'm not going into the cause of the thing right now I'm not arguing that you have to have this state of existence that is a righteous state I'm defining what right doing is your actions are what your life is and Parminder is over here in this realm here doing the very same thing as Wagner and they're disregarding that he's already put in place repeatedly the cause you have to be righteous once you're righteous you have to do right choices that's why I here's message it's Joan's message we are considering the thing itself we're not now considering how why or whence righteousness comes but simply considering the fact and how much it includes if a man's actions be right he is a man a righteous man now these brethren that are teaching this they'll reject this next passage in the Bible they won't do it openly but they do it says let no man deceive you he that doeth righteousness is righteous not so I might do righteous acts but brothers and sisters you need to understand in my flesh I'm still guilty and if I'm guilty I'm not righteous the Bible says if a man does righteousness he is righteous but I'm telling you you can't do righteousness with the premise that they developed because your flesh it's outside your choice the avenues of the of the senses you can't choose to not feel hungry anymore you can choose to fast brother Nathan you can choose to fast but you can't choose not to be hungry okay and their definition is as the lower nature has is a sinful nature but not just that that it possesses guilt that needs to be resolved in the sanctuary so they couldn't buy this passage let no man deceive you he that doeth righteousness is righteous that is right but if he acts wrong then he is not right that's all these are the facts simple plain self-evident truths they do not do not need any argument a man's life is composed of his actions he performs this is all the Lord brings into the judgment Wagner didn't understand that he brought his sinful fleshly nature into the judgment magner was misinformed I guess this is all the Lord brings into the judgment the things that man have done Wow now to how much of a man's life made the adjectives righteousness in our righteousness apply to every act of a man's life is that clear then righteousness by faith or the absence of that unrighteousness without any help whatsoever has to do with a man's whole life with every act doesn't it a voice yes well that is righteousness if the man is a man a righteous man and can he be a righteous man and do right things in some particulars and then in other particulars go wrong no no the man is composed of his acts and righteousness or unrighteousness has to do with all the acts of man he that doeth righteousness is righteous the righteous man does the right thing under all circumstances of life and he does it the right way now then we say we accept the doctrine of righteousness by faith what does that mean right doing by faith I know that the language to some seems the wildest nonsense because the idea of righteousness by faith of course is nonsense to some but many have said that righteousness by faith is a good thing in itself but it must not be carried to an extreme he's going to go talk about fanaticism I'll drop it off there you can read that on your own time my warning is this you can take it or leave it we're in the final doctrinal shaking everything that can be shaken will be shaken the last doctrine that brings this whole thing to a conclusion is the incarnation of Christ which is the mystery of godliness Christ in you the hope of glory and there's no way the Bible teaches that Christ how's it saying verse but for the joy set before him he endured the sufferings of the Cross is that how it goes something like that despising the shame there so there was joy set before him right that's what it says because there was joy set before Christ he had the ability to endure the cross but we were created in His image which means that Christ was a goal motivated being he had a goal the joy of salvation was before him and because he was gold motivated he can endure even the suffering of the cross we're created in His image if our goal is to be like Christ and we have the wrong definition of who he is we cannot meet the goal now brothers and sisters like it or not I've known about this little groups understanding about the incorrect view they have on the nature of Christ for some time I didn't realize when or where it was going to come to its head but it has come to its head and the very first presentation of Parminder the first argument that has went on all the way through is that he is teaching that you can be saved by your own strength the reason they're saying that brothers and sisters is because they will say yes sin is a choice but it if you if your body has guilt connected with it original sin then it really doesn't matter about your choice because no matter what choice you make you're still guilty before the Lord until he chooses to somehow miraculously resolve that on his own without your knowledge so if you if that's your picture of Christ then you're gonna look up something like Parminder saying and you're gonna be blinded and you're gonna say he's putting all the emphasis on the will and this is he's saying you're gonna save yourself in spite of the fact of the hours that you can go and demonstrate he never taught that once not once so I'm here to tell you brothers and sisters whether you see it or not we this movements in a shaking it has to do with the elements of the Incarnation we should know what the Incarnation is and what it means but by and large we don't understand those things any longer shall we pray Heavenly Father we I believe that we're at the point now where the church appears to fall but it does not fall remains while the sinners in Zion are removed from it this is a most trying ordeal I believe that we're at the point where Gideon's army is going down to 300 I believe we're at the point where everything that can be shaken will be shaken and I believe my brothers and sisters and myself and here we're not ready for this and there's a good percentage of us that don't believe it we're so wrapped up in our own experience our own day-to-day activities that it's beyond our ability to really think that well maybe this is the final the final revelation of truth before the Lord begins to separate the wheat from the tares and the church triumphant but the evidence is that this is the case maybe living so close to the heart of this message this movement has has brought a little Laodicean experience here that that is different than around the world but in here this close to the light that keeps coming from from this school and this message you would think that we would recognize the trouble as times that are about upon us but it doesn't seem to be the case Lord I pray that your pull your holy spirit out upon every one of us begin to convict us of our need to understand the truth in its fullness and begin to be the Watchmen on the walls that watch for these inroads of Satan because most certainly he's about his business of making the final warfare against this message this movement this little church family we ask a blessing upon the rest of these Sabbath hours and we thank you for your presence in Jesus name you