(11-28-18) - Trimester Review pt 3 - (pmSW585dGqY)

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Publish Date: 11/28/2018
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (11-28-18) - Trimester Review pt 3-pmSW585dGqY
YouTube ID: pmSW585dGqY

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shall we pray to again amen okay let me begin by sharing an observation I've made as I've tried myself to grapple with these truths I've come to realize that you have to have in your mind previous understandings how the message has developed over the years has to be one of your one of your references or your anchorage a style you proceed in understanding this message I found that many of the presenters would repeat or build upon previous concepts at different layers to it and they would mind additional truths from it and if it is that we do not understand those old concepts as they were in the beginning will get lost as they're being developed now we spend some time yesterday and on Monday looking at the lines of brother Theodore and I am going to utilize an axe an aspect of his line this morning when I cover some ideas that elder Jeff put into the mix last summer of last year as well as before his departure a few weeks ago that which I'll cover for him is the number eight and for brother Parminder the presentation of last year that I look at for him is the nature of man both concepts are new and they are needful for us to understand and both concepts are playing on previous information particularly the concept of the number eight so on this side of the board we covered yesterday that there's this running theme of chiasm that is identifiable within the lines that are here pictured we explained what chiasm are in the literary sense and then we viewed it chronologically we saw that there is visible structurally the same components within each line the component that is shared between these two lines is that the midpoint is the passover feast that is May 2nd of 1844 and it is April 27 of 31 ad this is just an enlargement of what is simply reflected here we saw the dates that are associated with that particular history the span of time that extends from 27 ad to 34 ad and then we saw that the structure that is visible here in the framework of the 1260 brings our mind to this line which is the counter feet three and a half that Satan instituted so that's what we covered yesterday and elder Jeff before he left he took this line and he applied it to the concept of the number eight which we're going to spend some brief time covering brief please okay so we are in Ezard 7 verse 9 as r 7 and we're going to read verse 9 and then from there we're going to jump to 2nd chronicles 29 and we're going to read verses 16 and 17 we won't spend long on azhar 79 because sister tamina already covered that with some degree of detail in her studies with us this week and you know it's ironical that elder Jeff utilized this concept in the latter part of his presentations with us and he made reference of it being the running thread in Daniels presentation of October 13 and I've always had this idea weird that that particular concept needs to be understood it came shortly after the idea of sunset was unfolded here and then following that elder Jeff was kind of juggling the idea of the seven seven and a half and this brought the cost of the concept of the number is everything that I'll review are things that were done here I will not go beyond 2017 and the reason I am I have in thought to cover other aspects of truth in the past is because of this practice among the presenters to utilize old information to bring out new truths and if we don't understand the old the new will make no sense to us and this particular train of thought will help us to understand the ideas that are coming out relative to the midnight cry so as are a seven verse nine Alyssa can you really please again need to go up and babble on and on the first day of the fifth month came to Jerusalem according to the so now it is your turn I have helped you some with labeling assigning the way marks that are associated with each of the days mentioned here but what additional information can you share about the first day of the first month the first day of the fifth month and the tenth day of the seventh month in context of the Millerites line as I put it on the board there the application is that of aura line what is the application in the Millerites line what is the first the other first month is the other fifth my 10th the other stuff yes please we're 19 I'm hopeful if we are brief enough I'm hopeful that we'll cover the line of the Miller right because that too is an aspect that we need to have in mind as we see to understand our midnight cry message okay so from Ezra 7-9 we have seen this principle of the first day of the first month and the movement had undertaken first through the initiative of Bronwyn to find those reffered those biblical dates and their other references in the Bible now in second chronicles 29 verses 16 and 17 we will see the first day of the first month mentioned as the commencement point of a particular set of action done by the priests and the Levites so that's what we're going to read next second chronicles 29 verses 16 and 17 sister Cathy into the court of the house of the Lord and the Levites took it to carry it out abroad to the kid home now they began on the first day of the first month to send home and on the eighth day of the month came day to the porch of the lord who sanctifies the house of the lord i know summer is quite a distance away in your minds but if you can recall after the porch was observed or cited in verse 17 the class went on this Bible search of that particular word and a lot of truth came from it particularly in the framework of of Solomon's house we won't cover that because I'm trying to be brief so we saw that the first day of the first month they began the work of cleansing the temple on the eighth day they got to the porch and from the eighth day to the sixteenth day they continued at that particular work of cleansing completing on the 16th day of the first month and that's just it being Illustrated simplistically the third line is the application and this third line was something that elder Jeff did before he left here a few weeks ago so he put the line of the 144,000 and isolated the way marks 9 9 11 to Sunday law and he applied the information of 2nd chronicles 29 verses 16 and 17 to this particular life and it was observed that the F lies between midnight and midnight cry the concept of the seven seven and a half is also good to have in mind and like I said it was covered with some degree of depth the September of last year so you can consult the school of the prophets YouTube page for that additional to this line what he had done was he took the first line that is pictured on that board to the left and left of me and showed that this midpoint this idea of a midpoint lying between two premiere way mark is visible in the line of the Miller right as well as in the line of the priests so in the line of the Miller writes you have you have it this way the first day of the first month you have Midway which is midnight and then you have the close of probation the tenth day of the seventh month now this Midway for the Millerites was July 21 1844 but for the priests its 2014 which makes 2014 the midpoint for the experience of the priests in the letters of Samuel snow a midpoint is also observable and to me second is that midpoint and we understood originally when the concept of the prediction before midnight was being was first sheared that May 2nd was the prediction before midnight renamed the prediction before the close of probation so main means second was identified as a premiere feature of or understanding of what is to happen in or aligned as well as to understand the events that occurred in the line of the the mineral rights so this structure was to him a set of witnesses for a midpoint being placed between midnight and midnight cry okay so I'm hopeful I'm going to repeat all of what I just said let's rushed but that's in essence all I want to show relative to the number eight and the significance of it can only be realized as we go through the rest of our our coverage of the midnight crime message of the priests as we're seven nine gave us the first day of the first month from that we realized that the first day of the first month is of prophetic significance that led to scriptural searches which yielded second Chronicles 2916 well particularly verse 17 there are other verses but that particular one is the one of focus we see in that particular passage of Scripture that there's a work of cleansing done by the priests and the Levites for sixteen days the first eighth and sixteenth day are identifiable they are they're pronounced so when you put that to a line it looks similar to what I've reflected on the second line that when applied to the line of the priests no when applied to the line of the 144,000 is 911 midnight cry and Sunday law there is a mid okay there is a when that when this line is then open up opened up it reveals the details that are reflected here the work of the from the first to the seventh day is a sign to the pier at 9:00 11:00 to midnight while the work of the FT lies between midnight and midnight cry this midpoint being between midnight midnight cry is explainable through these two witnesses this is the line of Samuel snows letters this is the line of the the 100 this is the line of the priests under the Millerites blended in one the first day of the first month midway close of probation that's April 19 July 21 October 22nd for the Miller rights or 9/11 2014 or 2019 for the priests these witnesses are used in support of that midpoint that can be represented one as the cross in the framework of 31 ad as well as that glorious manifestation of the power of God that is to happen within that period of time okay are there any questions relative to that do I need to repeat is it okay Nike shirt just for myself to understand Parminder did on different lines of agricultural marriage and he did this line of 144,000 separate than the priests and so I always get confused and you're saying this line down here those little ones there are specifically for the feast and I just want to ask have you considered that it lines up differently when you do a line for the 144,000 or is that something to do it because it's a bigger line and it stretches differently and I'm I get confused with that and we don't have to deal with it now I could not do that does that make sense in the question so you're saying that I'm looking at I'm applying the number-8 fractally but you're questioning how what that would look like on the bigger line of the 144,000 okay if there are no other questions I'll try to address that tamina did you have a thought I see you first listen to you okay so how do I do this I'm going to erase this but I hope you see that already we're utilizing information from one brother Theodore's work because this that I've reflected there is recent and this is following the midnight cry of sister Tess and brother elder Jeff also contributed to our understanding of the midnight cry message I'll just use the other point okay so Brad I mentioned the agricultural model and I think she inferred the construction as well as the model of marriage and the line of the 144,000 as well as the fracture lines that are reflected here my thought is that the midpoint for the line of the 144,000 is Sunday law I don't know if others would have a different take on that but that's my personal thought on the matter that Sunday law is the midpoint that would line up with those fractal way marks that are there referenced what that contributes to or understanding of the number eight I cannot now see because as I as you referenced earlier it's always looked at on the fractal level as opposed to on that wider scale but it's something to be considered but in my mind the first day of the first month would still be nine eleven the first day of the eighth month would be Sunday law and this would still be co P the structure still remains the same it's just that it it takes on different we marks for these latter two if that's okay I mean if you have you wanted to say something after I said something I don't really have an answer but I would suggest that you need to find out what the number eight means and then you can look for it where it's in the larger scale because I think when you apply it now as all the Jeff has done I think we cannot just straight take it and apply it there because I think it will be there's a different place where do you think it would be well it was affirmations is right now it's after the close of probation between the second coming but another thought I have I agree with you that midnight for the 144,000 is to send it off it's Midway but what do we do with the quote where on what says that at midnight the Lord stands out Michael stands out to deliver his people so we know that close of probation is midnight which is Midway for what group is that say that again side so tell me why does it I agree with you that signing off this Midway for the 144,000 that biting aside we know or there is a quote girl white says that of midnight the Lord will stand up to deliver his people which is Daniel 12:1 is the close of probation so we have a midnight and closer probation if you have that on a larger scale what group would that be what what the Midway what group would that be so you're saying there's a midpoint between mm-hmm because that's where Michael will stand up to deliver his people in other words us that happens at midnight so I just wonder now if that is midnight for what group is at midnight what scale I'm not on this thing it doesn't matter I don't want to get you off track or your class I want somebody else understands it okay so in my mind this structure as it is reflected here which one is it this one this is maintained and if I'm understanding what you're suggesting we would skip this way Mike to this one to identify this as the eighth day of the first month and then this would be the sixteenth day of the first month is that how to understand what you're saying you're still maintaining that this is the eighth day of the first month and there's this like Jeff was pointing out before midnight as well as after midnight so it depends on what scale you look at from what angle you always have a manifestation of the power of God before the cycle or after the Sun in or before the close of probation after the close of probation so I'm not necessarily saying anything okay but this is the larger scale and those that are visible within this line as elder Parminder brought out this term master is the 144,000 that which is identifiable in the spirit of prophecy relates to that group of people is the understanding I have relative to that and I agree with the suggestion you made about the the manifestation of the power of God being before and after midnight because that's one of the the thoughts that elder Jeff had put in the mix recently I'm sorry that he had put in the mix recently but I'm trying to address bronwen's question without leaving any room for confusion and you're suggesting something that seems to suggest otherwise than when I was trying to share with her so I'm trying to represent it graphically for my own benefit as to what actually you're seeing relative to what I had just said a few minutes ago you're identifying a quote in great controversy that speaks about midnight and God coming to deliver his people what people is that it's a 144,000 these are the people that are assigned to this particular scale period I'm not saying this Sunday law cannot be midnight but you're saying that this is where that what you're saying is happening so for me it's kind of confusing and I'm trying to reconcile and then you have to crease below closer probation is mafia or what you have midnight over there means in Jeff's way the number eight would be after the close of probation and pouring of the Spirit of God as he depicts it is after the close of probation well as the other symbol of the manifestation of the power of God as Parminder speaking it would be between the son-in-law and the close of probation is without crack so I don't see because this is where originally the number eight was placed at midnight cry fixed Lee but then it was seen to be more of a progressive concept which would fall between midnight midnight cry which for the for the 144,000 would be this midpoint as you just expressed which would have a physical representation in the loud cry so the number a three would still be here no not nobody ha just to fix it or am i misunderstanding right because just puts it after the close of probation by how is that conflicted because right now you put it before the confirmation okay this is the line of the priests and this graph that I'm going to picture here was recently done at the church I wasn't here though so other Jeff when he was doing it was either superintendent remarks or the follow-up presentation he did in the afternoon where he brought up the divine manifestation of the power of God in the temple of Solomon there was a divine manifestation before the prior that was here and there was a divine manifestation after this is the cause of probation for the priests and you see a divine manifestation before and after it does not negate the presence of this right here all that you're contributing through the suggestion of elder Jeff as well is that the concept as it represents the divine manifestation of the power of God is also visible there we take as logic how you applies it to the priest and then zoom out and apply it to the 144,000 the eight and a manifestation of the number eight we come after the close of probation for him yeah but there are two ways to look at it so you wanna query number eight beforehand you can have it represented two ways depending on the symbology that you're applying to it as you shared before the number eight is a manifest is a symbology of the incarnation that which is that which can be visible before because we have to have that experience before this midpoint before this way mark occurs and it is also that which is visible here so I don't see there being an inconsistency in marking or identifying there's a eight here and these there's a 8th here it's 16 days into I get that I get that however we are reviewing how Jeff does things and then the question came up when we put that on the scale the 104,000 where can you place it and I just suggested it comes after the close affiliation and now it's being suggested that we can place the number 8 before midnight but that makes it I'm not even sure if we can do that but this isn't before midnight or that's the point I'm saying for the 144,000 the sandy law would be midnight however close of probation is midnight - and you cannot have two Midnight's for the same group so which one is it and what Jeff is saying over there with the priest that manifestation number eight between the close of probation and second comin midnight and midnight why would be there between close information and second coming and not between sunny lands close observation okay so recognizing here that there are some issues which seem not to marry up and which needs to need to be marry up okay sorry for the detour yes Ron and I think based on what Parminder this class is it's a way to start marrying and that's it you have to start with the biggest line get firm on that before we're allowed to take it down to the line of the priests side we have to be 144th and then go down that's a few he was pretty firm about that so then that would lead seven and a half going all the way up to CLP you know you'd have the half part right there and then the other half a fee after that it's fine in my mind because we have two eighths to deal with in the book of in second chronicles 29 and I don't know what for me I don't see there being any grave problem to identify a number if here and as Tamina was suggesting a number eight here as well because they're too reflected their dog priests and levites and right now you're pointing out to for the 144,000 which is the same group and second Chronicles we have two ups then there's the 144,000 she's one room and you're using that to say because that it would deny the placement of this structure there the way how I understood you what you said was that the number-8 can be placed as I suggested between close reservation Senate and secondary but you wouldn't see it harmful to put it also where you place it between side a low and close of probation because we have to number eights and second Chronicles in response to that I'm saying well the two number eights we have in second chronicles is two groups the priest is one number eight the Levites is one number eight and we cannot apply these two eights for the 144,000 which is one group and put them in two different places I don't think that we can do that okay I understand what you're saying but I will not there's another thought that came to my buddy may probably confuse things so all I was trying to share is the that the concept of the number eight needs to be in our consideration as we go forward in our understanding of the midnight cry message this was one of the tools elder Jeff used to kind of aim to marry the thoughts that were coming from three different minds that the Lord led to contribute to this bulk of a message called the midnight cry I'm hopeful that you will take the time to observe the videos that have been done on it it was recently touched on at the church and I don't know if you in the spirit movements you have can take the time to consider the information tamina I just want to apologize I didn't want it going off track okay okay so the number is I referenced it I referenced earlier that it it's symbolic of the concept of the Incarnation and that's what the nature of man study of elder Parminder brought to view the concept of the Incarnation as reflected through the idea of the nature of man there are two passages in the spirit of prophecy there are two passages in the spirit of prophecy that were used last trimester one is in Adventist not last trimester detriment the fall trimester of 2017 one was taken from Adventist homes and at his home the other from child guidance are we acquainted with the passages to tell me where they are child Island let's look at these quotes quickly Aventis home page 127 paragraph to whoever has found it is free to read it yes please the lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it the words flesh or fleshly or carnal lusts embrace the lower corrupt nature the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to a little God we are commanded to crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts how shall we do it shall we inflict pain on the body no but put to death the temptations of sin the corrupt thought is to be strong every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ all animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher cars of the soul the love of God must reign supreme Christ Messiah and undivided throne our bodies are to be regarded in this purchase possession the members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness ok so we are acquainted with that passage of the spirit of prophecy what contribution did it make to our understanding of the nature of man 1 the flesh is what else higher powers have the higher power has to be authority over the body and the other thoughts one of the points I appreciated from that was the separation it made between the body and that aspect of man's nature to allow us to realize that the man is independent of his his body child guidance page 39 point paragraph 1 let's just focus on paragraph 1 requires greater care and skill than the proper training and education of youth and children there are no influences so potent as those which surround us in our early years the nature of men at threefold and the training enjoyed by Solomon comprehends the right development of the physical intellectual and moral powers to perform this work aright parents and teachers must themselves understand the way the chill should the child should go this embraces more than a knowledge of books or the learning of the schools it comprehends the practice of temperance brotherly kindness and godliness this discharge of our duty to ourselves to our neighbors and to God what is this passage contribute to our understanding of the nature of life that its threefold our nature is threefold anything else it tells what goes while the threefold nature is okay and they are and what was said about the physical is this the body what is it so it was identified to be the lower passions or animal propensities and it was also redefined as being none physical there was a quote that he had shared during his coverage of this topic which showed that the body is the house in which we live in but I did not I do not have it readily in mind to reference so before before sin happened this is what man looked like structurally the higher powers were the lower powers were subservient to the higher but through the corruption that came the lower powers became superior or master of the higher powers and what I appreciated about how elder Parminder covered the topic was the different prophetic concepts that he used to illustrate what happens when something goes ruled like the church having dominance over the state what that looks like and the creation it made of the papacy so the nature of man is a subject matter I believe need to be in our memory banks as well because we are I'm coming we have predicted our close of probation as happening November 9 2009 and I've encountered many people who have been questioning how do I go about preparing for the event that is being predicted and I think the nature of man study is the answer consult it whatever it instructs that's what is expected of you to do Brittany I'm sorry repeat forty five paragraph floor so that quote is just to show that the the body is the house in which we live there's a quote in Mayan character personality Volume one I believe it is page eight paragraph three if my memory is serving me incorrectly let's go there mine character personality volume 1 page 8 paragraph 3 I really just want to focus on the last two sentences of that particular paragraph it says in order to lead souls to Jesus there must be a knowledge of human nature and a study of the human mind much careful thought and fervent prayer are required to know how to approach men and women upon the great subject of truth so I believe that the nature of man study is otherwise worded here as human nature it needs to be understood as we seek to lead souls to Christ and we understand that we have a message to take to the priests that are still in the churches and this aspect or this particular concept will help us to go forward in doing that work I would say more but I won't are there any thoughts relative to the nature of mind study No okay are there any questions period reference what is it what are the initials IMCP that I am seeing all sigh no thoughts I need that when I may need that no more thoughts I had a another quote that during the nature of man's study that I had saved that kind of goes the place with what do we do you know how to be prepared it's from CD 35:33 another little portion of it not the whole paragraph God's plan would be used to begin at the very seat about the difficulties the heart and then from out of the heart will issue the principles of righteousness so in that one is saying that the seat is the heart the heart is the seat any other thoughts questions we are going to change course okay okay for the last three days I have attempted to share with you information of the past four most recent past and not so recent past the purpose or the reason behind me doing that is because I've realized and I'm repeating something I said earlier that if it is that we do not have these previous ideas in mind we'll get lost with the information that is coming before us I'm hopeful that as we go through or other sessions together that you will see that many of the thoughts that we're put to the board will be utilized or is being utilized and I'm hopeful that the brief coverage we have done on these different concepts will help you to better understand or follow when it is that I go full speed ahead I may come back to what we discussed because it's bothering me so I'm going to come back to it tomorrow because this will not leave my head for the rest of the day but we are going to move on to time setting we're going to start time setting today and we're going to finish it up tomorrow and then Tamina and I as well as Bronwyn will continue our discussion you guys can contribute to okay I'm going to begin with the line of the minarets and what I'm going to do is I'm going to draw the line to scale oftentimes when we draw the line we draw them with equal distances apart when in actuality that's not how they they look so I'm going to draw it to scale so we have an idea of the span of time that extent that extends between the way Marx and I found it helpful to understand it this way and I'm hopeful that it will be of help to you so let me see how I drew here okay you'll observe that I'll take out some dates because I'm I'll do that and here October 20 years lie between this 42 years lie between these two dates and I'm going to do this as July or better yet no I'll do this as April oh there is something else and I'm now going to label the line label the way marks that had time associated with it there so time was here time was here time was here there was no time here there was time here and it was somewhere here that time again became a factor this is July no there's no time at April I'm marking this as March and this is April April 19 so normally when we draw the line there is like equidistance between each of these way marks and we lose the visibility of identifying that 20 years lie between the arrival of the first angels message and the increase of knowledge there are 42 years that span between the arrival of the first angels message on its empowerment it took very many years and time was the factor that brought about the empowerment here when we get to April 19th there was the absence of time and the absence of time brought about the disappointment or the discouragement that was pictured in early writings the chapter the Advent movement Illustrated I have a quote I want to read to you from John Loughborough and I particularly love how he how he no not him the source he used how it described the reaction of the absence of time among those people yeah I'm coming yes so this quote is the grade second Advent movement page 161 paragraph three visit a reference from the midnight cry it was written by George stores and it is titled go ye out to meet him here he says I take up my pen with feelings such as I never before experienced beyond a doubt in my mind the tenth day of the seventh month will witness the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven we are within a few days of that event awful moment to those unprepared but glorious to those who are ready behold the bridegroom cometh this year go ye out to meet him we have done with the nominal churches and all the wicked except so far as this cry may affect them our work is now to awake the virgins who took their lamps and went forth to sleep to meet the bridegroom where are we now if the vision Terry wait for it it's not that the answer since last March or April that of the tarrying time and the answer is yes what happened while the bridegroom tarried the answer the Virgin's all slumbered and slept did they not Christ's word have not words have not failed and the scripture cannot be broken it is no use for us to pretend that we have been a week we have been slumbering not on the fact of Christ's coming but on time what was the slumbering they were not slumbering on the matter of the event but on the time we cannot we came into the Terry gain time we did not know how long it would tarry and that and on that point we slumbered some of us have said in our sleep in our sleep don't fix another time so we slept now the trouble is to to wake us up lord help us for vain is the help of man speak thyself Lord all that the father may may now make known the time so this concept of sleeping is associated with the absence of time it is the lack of time that caused the Millerites asleep because April 19th they had no time to reckon with so you can find this quote again in great Ingrid in the great second Advent movement by John Lafleur page 161 paragraph 3 the next thing I would want to read to you is an art is a letter from Samuel snow if I can find it a letter that sam'l snow wrote August 5 of 1844 I could send it to you there's a book that I had downloaded that someone's no wrote it is let me try and find it this has a compilation books to read this has a compilation of every single letter article he wrote I got it from one of the videos I watched here the reference to the book at least so the title of the book is the book of judgment delivered to Israel okay the book of judgment delivered to Israel sorry the book is taking a while to load okay the book of judgment delivered to Israel by Elijah the prophet of the everlasting covenant the book of judgment delivered to Israel by Elijah the prophet of this everlasting covenant it was published in 1848 and I believe they only have soft copies for this book it's 228 pages long I'm trying to find the letter here that he wrote in August of 44 your good okay I found it so in this letter that he wrote I'm just going to read a section of it it said since last January that's January of 1844 43 by preaching and writing since last January I have by preaching and writing been to some extent preach proclaiming to those who are looking for the Lord and to others these views concerning the time and although I have been called to encounter many obstacles not the least of which has been the opposition of brethren whom I love and who stir it and who were stereotyped to 1843 yet the Lord has been with me blessed his bless his name and my labor I feel assured has not been wholly in vain he goes on from that point to delineate the different aspects of the midnight cry message there are five topics that are found in the true midnight cry article they are notice seven times of the Gentiles I'm not doing it in order those are the five proofs that he gave towards the 18th towards the midnight cry and after he wrote that he says Oh after hero that he says at that time I believed that the prophetic time would end in ad 1843 consequently I was expecting to see my blessed Savior last autumn that is autumn of 1843 but the time passed and I did not realize my expectations I felt disappointed but not too in the least degree staggering in my faith but yet there was somewhere a mistake at first I thought it must be in the chronological date excuse me accordingly I began to search for this mistake but I was somewhat surprised to find that the error was not in the chronology but in or mode of calculating the prophetic periods and that if the dates were correct the periods could not possibly terminate before the autumn of AD 1844 so what this letter I'm hopeful shows to you as it showed to me is that Samuel snow was looking for Christ's return autumn of 1843 because he said here that in consequence of his previous understanding he was looking for Christ to come in the autumn of the previous year which would be 43 so some was snow here the date I found was October 4 but again I'm not the chronologiste I just I just googled it and that was the day that it yielded because he was looking he still had the idea of the tenth day of the seventh month in the year 1844 1843 and he had expectations of Christ's coming the the fall of 1843 and he was disappointed to not see it realized and why he came to this understanding was because of an article written by William Miller May of 1843 it was written May 2nd of 18th but no May 3rd so May 3rd 1843 mineral to lecture an article on the autumnal termination off of the the prophetic periods 1943 in the sides but it was written May 3rd so this work led Samuel snow to his studies and during his studies he still had the tenth day of the seventh month as a termination time point but he had assigned it to the year 43 and later he just changed the year to 44 okay so I'm going to repeat it when you read this this this letter that he wrote he tables his experience and he said that he was expecting to see Christ come 1843 autumn the tenth day of the seventh month when that never happened he he transferred his understanding from 1843 to 1844 so originally he thought that Christ was coming the tenth day of the seventh month 43 when that wasn't realized he went back to the drawing board and saw that the terminating date is actually 44 while the tenth day of the seventh month was still sound so when I googled the tenth day of the seventh month in 1843 for the Jews I got October 4 I don't I don't okay good so what I the purpose of sharing that is that is to say that the concept of the midnight cry of 44 was already visible in 43 over 27 or October can't hear you back so is the October 22nd the tenth day of the seventh month and 44 and this understanding was reached by Samuel snow through the works of MIT William Miller we have two symbols from the Millerites line that we are associating now with the midnight cry message the next person is Josiah Lynch Samuel snow got his information from William Miller and the cyllage did - I'm going to read a quote also from great Empire the great second Advent movement what page is the heart again okay this may take me a while to find because I find this better on my tablet so we're looking at the concept of time setting and we're looking at symbols or prophetic figures who have utilized this principle to come to date and we are using these individuals to represent we're using these individuals to represent the work that is currently going on in the movement our midnight cry so Samuel snow got his information from the works of William Miller and I'm submitting that Josiah Lich also Israel has William Miller to credit for his studies and understanding I found the quote I'm just going to tell where it is and then I'll take your point Bronwen so it is the great second Advent movement page 121 paragraph 1 121 paragraph 1 yes tobert v we have to boy feel disappointed we have a group of people disappointed we have October October for the 4th of October I mean they're expecting Christ to come Tuesday I mean is it just William Miller and snow or what's that group Lapointe right there I'm just marking snows disappointment because that's what that's the only those are the only he's the only one involved in the account that he's giving in that particular letter McKee Jesus Christ is coming back he's intimately involved with the group not strange isn't it strange that he's the only one that's disappointed in the man no it's that he thinks Christ is coming back he's been working alongside with this group and they're not all aware that that there's this date that Christ is supposed to come back there anything you see odd about that no I think personally that he's just utilizing the information that was recently put within the group that open up an awesome termination point for the expect he not been that little holy little group expected to come back I'm not saying that what Sam Lewis no said was that he was expecting Christ to come in the autumn of 1843 in consequence of him not coming he was disappointed and went back to studying what he had studied and saw that the termination date would have to be 44 and not 43 and that I just wonder about the dynamics of the group during that time when your group is expecting Christ to return and what that does to this day they were still expecting him to come in March they were still looking at a spring termination point even though Miller had suggested the idea of looking for Christ to come in the autumn you can prove that there wasn't a unity on a message that was being presented I wouldn't say there is this unity and I would just say that there was just one individual who took up that line of thought that was put in the open and studied it and in studying it found gems of truth that allowed him to come to a date based understanding and was expecting it to be realized and it wasn't it was we have a misunderstanding about 1843 so one is when 1843 even began many people expected Jesus to come then the Millerites were disappointed many times we talk about the first disappointment which really isn't their first they had they were all looking for Jesus in the fall of 43 because of Mellors lettered it wasn't just one individual or a few individuals but they weren't as disappointed in that when those things didn't occur they still knew that Jesus is a coming sometime within the year 1843 and even January 1st 1843 many people were still looking for Jesus then they just believed that Jesus was going to come in the year 1843 they kept looking for different dates where he might come no 80 1843 January 1st 1843 they were even expecting him because they were using originally just our year 1843 they weren't even thinking about a biblical year and Miller in December said that Jesus was going to come in December of 42 said Jesus was gonna come in the Jewish year but that message didn't get to everybody right away so they it wasn't as simple as we make it to be but the thing is when the Jewish year 1843 had fully expired then they were disappointed in that Miller's prediction had completely failed and that's why Miller wrote an apology that was on May 2nd of 1844 of why Jesus hadn't come back and said that they were still going to look for him even though his prophecy had failed okay so the the purpose for sharing the letter really it's just to bring out the the presence of time and a definite date before 1844 and there was a definite date which was March 21 to March 20 March 21 1843 to March 21 1844 that was always already within the group but on a date that is assigned to the fall is what I'm trying to to put out there to each one here okay so snow can credit his understanding to William Miller as well as Josiah Lich so I reference the quote as being found in the great Empire the great second Advent movement page 121 paragraph 1 I am going to read ok I'll just read it in 1836 his lectures were printed in some of the public journals of the day that's William Miller in the winter of 1837 to 1830 ate his lectures were issued in a pump pamphlet in 1838 a second pamphlet of 204 pages was printed and in this pamphlet mr. Miller stated that the Ottoman power might fall in the year 1839 or 1840 so these figures that we associate predictions to Josiah Lich as well as as Samos no have as their point of reference materials that were given or issued from Miller and I I think that it is an added witness of the importance of us understanding the previous messages that have been taught within the movement because that's all that will be used as we identify and understand the midnight cry sam'll snows prediction used multiple concepts in order to come to that point of time whereas josiah lich just used raw calculations to come to where he was if you read Josiah Lich's work that was published the one that was published August 1st of 1840 you will see that it is just calculation based looking at the information of Revelation 9:15 making the calculation from the endpoint revelation 9:15 making the calculation from the endpoint to the the beginning point that is referenced there to the endpoint of August 11 1844 1840 sorry Oh I'm just going to read a section of it just to confirm this thought it was published in the signs of the time August 1st 1840 and it is captioned fall of the Ottoman Empire it was he has signs of the times August 1st 1840 the title is fall of the Ottoman Empire the end of the second war revelation 9 I'm just going to read a short two short paragraphs which amount together to three sentences it says the time during which they were to continue their conquests was an hour 15 days a day one year a month 30 years and a year 360 years the whole amounting to 391 years and 15 days allowing the first period of 150 years to have been exactly fulfilled and then adding the 391 years from that end point it will end in the 11th of August 1840 when the ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken and this I believe will be the case so this is just calculations using the information that is found in the Bible these prophetic figures to come to an a concrete date what Samuel snow did is someone is similar he does use calculation but his arguments are bolstered by it was just a multi argumented discourse on how and when the 2300 days time prophecy was to be terminated and we're to expect both to happen within our time were to expect and visibly identify both of them as happening and I believe both of them have happened any questions before I summarize h st h t yeah pioneers word okay some yes just I'm sorry you said that so Samuel snow got got a lot of his work birdies numbers and calculations problem William Miller same widget silage also I'm not saying he got his calculations from him the information that found founded his his understanding so Miller's who suggested that they were to expect an autumn termination William Miller is also who said that the Ottoman Empire would fall 1839 1840 he's the one that furnished both men with subjects of study Samuel snow studied the information Josiah leach did too and they came to fix the dates in time that are of prophetic significance to us okay so we are going to pray to close but I'm just going to take a quick minute to do a review of what we did today we did so many things I'm sorry it's just my habit um we need to understand the messages of the past if it is that we're going to understand the midnight cry in its in its totality if it is that we have if we don't have a working knowledge of past truths the information that is now coming in the form of the midnight cry will not will be confusing to very many of us there are some truths that I've shared with you that I think form a part of the final midnight cry as you're understanding it the number if the nature of man the chiastic structure the the understanding that was given through great controversy chapters 17 and 19 just to mention those two as well as the understanding of Daniel 11:40 245 and its placement on the line we have to have a working knowledge in order to be able to grapple with these truths I'm prayerful that our brief coverage of these concepts were of help to you and this quick reference to time the presence of time on the Millerites line and the absence of time also on their line and how these symbols Samuel snow and Josiah Lich came to their understanding of time was through works done by William Miller all of which is important to how we will proceed in our understanding of the midnight crime message of the line of the 144,000 will pray to close Heavenly Father I thank you for all that you have done and continue to do for us I ask your help as we seek to understand a vast amount of truths in short sessions I pray that you will give us the ability to handle and hold in our mind so many subject topic that will help to find allies and make clear our final understanding I ask that you watch over us throughout the remainder of the day and I ask these things in Jesus's name Amen