(11-16-17) - Faith & Works - (h4W-IvwkoCE)




Publish Date: 11/16/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (11-16-17) - Faith & Works-h4W-IvwkoCE
YouTube ID: h4W-IvwkoCE



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I mean we're all familiar with William Miller's rules assumably right the beginning of the trimester I said I didn't really understand the rules properly I got some feedback from that I just want to read rule five to you scripture must be its own expositor since it since it is a rule of itself if I depend on a teacher to expound to me and he should guess at this meaning or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian Creed or to be thought wise then his guessing desire creed or wisdom is my rule not the Bible so what does that rule mean I'll read it again some people may not be familiar with it scripture must be it's only expositor since it is a rule of itself if I depend upon a teacher to expound it to me and if he should guesses its meaning or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian Creed or to be thought wise then his guessing desire Creed or wisdom is my rule not the Bible so what there's a lot of things in that rule but what's the punchline of that rule because talking about don't follow man but that's not what the rules about is it what scripture must be its own expositor and he tells you why because it is a rule of itself and then he says if you took man's words then his guessing or his wisdom would be the rule and not the Bible yeah since that how do we apply that rule yeah that's pretty straightforward rule so he's going to give a proof text for this now and he gives a number of protex Psalms 1972 11 Psalms 119 97 to 105 she's gonna give these I don't know if anybody's ever looked at these proof texts before so let's quickly turn to Psalm 219 translating from seven the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul the testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple what's how would you approach that verse what's that verse teaching you what should we have noticed straight away from that verse hmm repeating enlarge that's the first thing we should have noticed about that verse it's a repeating enlarge so if it's a repeating enlarge what you can then begin to do is create a really nice structure and it's the first part of the verse the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul how the components have you got there how would you read that so I'm only going to start telling you off because we're all familiar with the rules we all claim to know the rules I get in trouble for not knowing the rules and I'm taking to the fight the first Bible verse yep rule 5 yeah first Bible verse that he gives and it's clear that people in there having to reexamine because they haven't even looked at this verse properly and it's one of the primary rules that we have the middle of William it is gonna give us so how comes we don't know the answer off the top of our fingers top of I'm writing whatever you wanna call it why is that because I'm suggesting we don't know how to use these rules properly the whole movement doesn't we haven't examined them carefully enough to understand what's going on so coming back to my question the first part the Lord Lord is perfect converting the soul how many parts would you break that into what what you what I'm suggesting you would you're required to do is your going to follow his rule properly and understand what he's doing because my first question is why would he even use these verses what are these verses teaching us it begins with the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul what's that got to do with scripture has to interpret scripture what's the connection between those two the rule the law and the Bible verse because this Bible verse is supposed to be a proof that this law is true isn't it is that correct so how many sections you're going to break the first part into the law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul three three three I would go for three the first one would be law next one would be perfect and the next one would be it converts you so once you do that then you can go into the rest of the verse and you can begin to do line upon line and it begins to expose itself so when it says scripture is meant to be see its own expositor what we do is we say revelation 10 Ezekiel to Jeremiah 15 the Bible is to be as holy expositor but he's doing it in the verse itself he take you to one of the one of the primary verses that this this rule works so if you did that then what would you work what how would you do the rest of the verse testimony sure wise so we won't go through all the verses but if you went through them if you just quickly peruse we're in verse seven you look at verse eight it's the same structure verse nine it's the same structure you can see those colons that are tucked in there yeah so you've got other than how many verses I think it goes up to about verse eleven you've got one two three four you've got five verses and you've got ten repeating enlargements if you follow through with that so what you're going to see is that the scripture this rule it's going to define what each of those three things are ten times over so that we're really sure exactly what all of this stuff means the reason why that's important to understand because if you go to verse 7 it says the law of the Lord is perfect and what does it have the ability to do now who have us but actually believes that who have who actually believes that the Ten Commandments can convert you right nobody so no one believes the scripture because it says that you you're the only person that does nobody else does why does no one believe that the that the Ten Commandments can convert you Paul makes it really clear in the book of Romans what is the Ten Commandments do I hope you say something they bring conviction upon you through the judge you they kill you yeah the law has no power no ability to do anything to you isn't that the cornerstone of evangelical Christianity that we all believe is that true ten commandments they have no ability to turn you into a good person only Jesus can do neighs and that on one level okay so we'll put Jesus to one side you've got the Ten Commandments and they're gonna convert you on one level you say sure you don't believe that anyone else sorry don't so we need to understand what this passage is teaching it's is it saying that the Ten Commandments which are perfect they can come into you and they convert the song by the way the word soul here is being used in what context what needs converting the heart and when the heart is converted we're in steps to Christ forty seven point one what happens to the nature it's all transformed only one fell swoop so the soul can be considered as the heart but the whole being so the only reason I mention this if you go if you're going to verse eight the statutes of the Lord are right rejoicing the heart so you've got converting and you've got oh let's go back into verse seven again the testimony of the Lord is sure making the wise sorry making wise the simple yeah so you've got two groups there you okay with that so we've converted we've we've got to convert the soul and you'll become wise so what would the soul be by the way it be the simple person who's now changed the statutes of the Lord are right rejoicing the heart so we can tuck those three in statutes right rejoicing the commandment of the Lord is pure enlightening the eyes so when your eyes are enlightened can you see how his the scriptures and William Miller obviously understands this that he's got multiple definitions for the same experience multiple words being used the reason why he's important because people who are arguing against the app you lepra feted gospel are going to use verses like to the law and to the testimony and they're going to start saying they're two separate things and people say that I don't know how to use the how to use these rules and they're going to start using the rules to start combating this movement and when I say me I know it's not me I'm saying this side of the issue when we say it's prophetic gospel people are struggling and warring against that and they're claiming to use william miller's rules to defend what bethe teaches the truth and they're breaking the rules at the first hurdle because if you're going to let scriptures be it's only expositor then it's defined what the law and what the testimony is what are they they're the same thing so now you need to go back into those verses to the law and to the testimony to actually understand what they mean virtually to do it contextually just at the literal level and when he says the law and the testimony what is that talking about by the way when he says the law and they test me how do just just a standard surface evangelical commentary understanding of what that means when it says the law what is that to write them it's not even the ten commandments Lorna testimonies is a code word for the Old Testament so people are miss applying scriptures over and over again to defend their position that they love salvation by works because that's what it is salvation by works if you believe that morality and prophecy are able to do what they're able to do what Savior because the gospel is what the gospel is at all that God is going to use to change you so we could go on and on in this line of thought just to show that people use people are not even using the rules properly and they don't eat and I'm not saying they're bad people didn't even know they're doing that oh yeah I was gonna ask a question totally off the subject and then I decided I wouldn't because it was totally off the subject and then you made the claim just a minute ago are you actually claiming do you believe that william miller understood these verses as a fulfillment of those rules to the level that you're at right now so the reason why i say that i don't understand these rules is last year our trimester we thought we'll take the whole trimester and go through the rules I figured it would probably take maybe a month a couple of weeks to go through the rules look at the verses and sort it out we got to rule number five and he took us three months to do that and the more we looked at this not just me the more our class looked at these rules and the very wording of the rules and then how the Scriptures were being applied to those rules the first thing you notice is that these Bible verses don't connect with the rules themselves when you read them over and over again you think they've got nothing to do with the rules and then you have to start really interrogating those verses where he starts thinking about every word that he's used in those rules so I think elder Jeff is asking do I think that these rules are inspired is that the know who your question yeah but I was speaking more about what Miller actually understood about what he was putting down his rules yes William Miller we as I say we only got to room number five and over and over again when we read the rule and we said why is he going to this verse for if it was me I would have gone to a different verse so he's chosen these verses really carefully and on the surface reading they don't make sense so my hunter is yes he knows exactly what he's doing and he's choosing specific Bible verses to make a specific point and if we had approached Psalm 19 verse seven at the beginning of trimester and we had just done this exercise I think most of us would have floundered we wouldn't have seen that it's a repeating enlarge you wouldn't seen that the verse itself is being used not only to explain how this law operates but it's a proof that the rule is true so okay I won't go anymore on that if we went to Psalms 119 because he's going to go to psalm 119 and we'll begin in verse 97 let me see if I can find something yes so psalm 119 verse 97 find it men oh how I love thy law is my meditation all the day thou through thy Commandments has made me wiser than my enemies for they are ever with me so again if you start checking these verses you'll see that these repeating and larger over and over again I have more understanding than all my teachers for their testimonies are my meditation if I said to you I have more understanding than all my teachers where would that take you there's more understanding than these teachers Daniel no not quite Daniel 10 times wiser just coming back when it says men so I'm 119 17 and then if we know what the word men means it's a thirteenth letter in the Hebrew alphabet and it means the revealer of Secrets 97 Psalms 119 97 begins with the word mem 13 Oakland the alphabet means a reveal of secret so when you start checking psalm 119 verses 97 and nine words we could spend a lot of time going through these verses then you'll see how they overlay with psalm 19 and the gist of what i'm trying to say is this when we pick when we try and proof text and we say law or testimony and we're going to go to different Bible verses and we think we know what it's talking about and we're going to try and develop an argument to say this word law is morality and this word testimonies prophecy or something we're approaching the rules in an incorrect way we're not even understanding how these rules operate and how we're supposed to use the scriptures to understand how these rules work so unless really anyone's got any more comments that was just my introductory thought before we go back to the will on this issue of morality and prophecy all of us need to go back and absolutely you know I'm saying on our knees and try and understand what these rules mean and how is supposed to operate he says here rule 5 you know I said let's skip most of the most of the rule I said that the punchline of the rule is scripture must mean it's only expositors it's ruling to itself which is correct because it's the lead sentence of the rule so that's true but he spends most of all saying what don't follow man don't follow man and people are saying well I shouldn't be following you or whoever I'm saying you don't understand what this rule is teaching all I'm saying is you should go through the rules go through the proof verses it's showing you how to use inspiration a man not me a man is standing up and saying what you're supposed to do is go to a particular Bible verse to Lawrence is a testimony and this verse will teach you that the everlasting gospel is prophetic prophetic and moral I'm saying that is man that's what's happening in this discussion that's going on right now in our movement people are following men because men are not following Miller's rules Miller's rules are divinely inspired and his selection of the verses are also divinely inspired angels guided the mind of this man not only in you know the defining of the three start dates 677 457 5 our way also ended in the in the not just these rules to understand what you know how to use them bring the very wording in the choice of Bible verses that's what he's saying don't follow men when they break the rules any comments hey let's go back Oh Larry he says in studying the Bible I have found the following rules to be of great service to myself and now given to the public by special requests every wolf rule should be well studied in connection with description references if the Bible students would be at all benefited by them and then how do we understand what the law in the testimony is just based upon that short thought that we've just had because it's also called the statutes it's also called the commandment the judgments over and over again how do you understand what all of that's talking about oh sorry so yeah we didn't even ask for my first question I'm saying yes I'm saying the law can convert you because it says it's taking the scripture and they're gonna start messing around with that and the question is what is the law that's right I'm saying it's the little book the whole scripture the whole Bible which are condensed into books of Daniel revelation which are condensed into the message that's related to time because that's what she says that little book is if you're going to go right back to its most basic form it's the message in relationship time revelation 10 but when you start coming out of that it's the book of Daniel chapter 8 the book of Daniel which it must be the book of Revelation and all books of the Bible meet and ending the revelation so it's all of this prophetic model that we have all these parables which is what the Bible is these parables this prophecy is able to convert you so yeah it's not the ten commandments that's being spoken of here because the Ten Commandments are not able to convert you that's that's Christianity 101 we all know that it isn't and that's what this argument is all about when you introduce morality into this component you're saying that the Ten Commandments have the ability to come in and change you and they don't sorry I'm saying they're not a part of the conversion I'm saying the end result of conversion is that you love to keep the moral law you love to keep that law you love to do it as opposed to doing it for all the strange reasons that we all do we don't speed because we don't want to get a speeding ticket it's not really a good reason but it works we can get by so I'm not saying this I'm saying it's not part of it what it is it's the end result of conversion that you love law brother Jason sorry it's been a I'm sorry I shouldn't let you do it straight away did that trouble you brother Jason the way I like the way I'm expressing that because it always sounds like it's a part of it which is what our brethren is teaching that's a part of this thing because it sounds like what was the what was the problem with the leadership with eighty Jones came and said we've got it all wrong what did they do what did they think 80 Jones Jones and Waggoner were trashing because they that's what was that was concerning them wasn't it they were trashing something sorry anyone else isn't that that's what their concern was that oh she said the law besides you know they don't like them they're upstarts and you know they regret that their character defects if you like because I had a problem with their character defects what was their primary argument that they didn't like that eighty Jones were was undermining anyone else and the worried Ellen White say about that undermining the old established race nobody knew it I'm saying that's all that's happening now I'm convinced I don't mean like seriously that I'm not teaching anything new these are all the established truths I'm just reframing them in a different language with different words to help to bring clarity to the issue the problem that they had was not solely but in the book of Galatians the argument is what what law is it being dealt with and there are in the end and the leadership's argument the movement's argument is that this is the ceremonial law that teaches us how to come to Christ because Christ does the converting and chosen Wagner says you've got that all wrong and they stressed it was the moral law so and then why it has to come inside kind of like balance it to say actually it's both we'll go we'll go sort of like I say compromising the bad way will compromise the point that it's both and it is both both of them are the the schoolmaster that takes you to Christ so you know that the Ten Commandments don't have the ability to convert you so this is coming as this whole issue about they have lost in goes to a three step prophetic test is dealing with the same issue that Ragnar and Jones had to deal with the preconceived ideas that we had steps to Christ forty-seven point one back to this many are inquiring how I am how am I to make the surrender of myself to God you did like to give yourself to him but you are weak in moral power in slavery to doubt doubt means unbelief so you don't believe something so it's a single page document we've all got that what is it that we don't believe okay we can't get away from the master in our own strength we can't break this cycle of bad habits and doing all this wrong by ourselves that's what the doubt is he says you just can't do it what you need to do is wait for Christ you wait for Christ to do it you'll all be fine and that's what we're doing some of us have been doing this for decades we're just waiting and waiting for Christ and then what we do is we develop a theology that does what - agrees with it you know there's a whole new new field of science brain science that actually confirms how we and they can do it scientifically how we actually operate and how we do this the mechanics they've broken it down how a human being actually has this wrong idea and then he's going to convince himself that it all works fine and it's the right thing so that we can all sleep at night because if someone strips this away from you people can't sleep at night because it's a disturbing message that you're required not to be weak in moral power in fact it's a lied that you're weak in moral power and if someone told you that what excuse do you have they stripped away people don't like that and controlled by the habits of your life have seen your promises and resolutions are like ropes arse and you cannot control your thoughts your impulses your affection this is the lower powers the knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens your confidence in your own sincerity and causes you to feel that God cannot accept you so who are you looking at when you do that you're looking at self and aren't we told repeatedly not to look itself what we supposed to look at when we look at Christ what kind of Christ are we supposed to be looking at Christ as the man anyone else what kind of Christ are we supposed to be looking at if I can find this quote okay anyone else what kind of Christ are we supposed to look at that man go 2,000 years ago anyone else that's right the word sorry dividing human let me read this to you it's first selective message is three 62.4 most selective messages one sm3 62.4 one sm-3 62.4 it's a it's a famous passage but I'm going to use it for a different purpose this is written in 1892 just four years after the 1888 message 1888 is when the latter rain comes down we were comfortable with that yeah by 1892 I think she still has the confidence it's all kind of goodness oh it's all gonna be okay it's going to work I'm gonna cut into the verse and then I'm gonna go back to the beginning the bit I'm going to cut into is why we use this passage the time of test is just before us for the loud cry the third angel that's already begun so this is the protex that we use i use often and i think it's a good proof text that this is 911 this is 1888 and this is the Sunday law and this is the Sunday law that they're expecting and she says the time of test is just before us for the loud cry of the third angels the third angel has already begun if I said the time of tested before us for the what is the word for mean because can everybody see that because so it you know this is going to happen because this has happened it's conditional cause the word for is being used as because so you know this is going to happen here and how do you know because because this has happened so we know that this is going to happen because this has happened and he's talking about the loud cry of the third angel the loud kind of third angel is what the empowerment of the third angel revelation 18 verses 1 2 3 yeah but we all unfamiliar territory so we've got revelation the angel coming down and she's lining these up in this structure that's what we use this verse for so what was my question that I asked why we're going here so think about Christ what was my question yes so why are we asking that question the knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakened your confidence in your own sincerity and cause used to feel that God cannot accept you so we're looking at self exposed to be looking at Christ everybody teaches website we're looking at Christ so let's see the Christ that we're supposed to be looking at I go back to the begin of the passage there everyone who claims to believe that the Lord is soon coming search the Scriptures as never before for Satan is determined to try every device possible to keep souls in darkness and blind the mind to the perils of the times in which we are living I'm saying this is happening now in our own movement Satan is now blinding the minds of us trying to keep us in darkness at this simple level that he doesn't want to want us to even use rules and people are now standing up who claim to be on this side of the argument who are breaking the rules and the same time claiming to be to be defenders of the faith there every believer take up his Bible with earnest pray that he may be enlightened by the Holy Spirit as to what is truth that he may know more of God and of Jesus Christ whom he has sent search for the truth as the hidden treasures and disappoint the enemy so the enemy does not want you to search for hidden treasure and I'm saying my definition of hidden treasure is prophecy you have to approach the Bible prophetically if you do that you'll disappoint the enemy but so this is the quote that this is the proof part of the passage that we use the time of test is just upon us for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ the sin pardoned in Medinah this is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth so that's why we pick up revelation 18 but I'm bringing I'm bringing us to this passage for the next portion of the passage because now it's going to begin a new part new part and we'd not often ignore this for it is the work of everyone to whom the message of warning has come to lift up Jesus yes so this is the looking to Jesus that we're supposed to be doing the word for again is a conditional clause because because it is the work of everyone to whom the message of warning has come to lift up Jesus to present him to the world so this is the Christ that we're supposed to be following presenting to the world as revealed in types as shadowed in symbols as manifested in the revelations of the prophets as unveiled in the lessons given to his disciples and in the wonderful miracles wrought for the son wrought for the sons of men searched the scriptures for they are they that testify from him so what is she's just done first of all she's just done she's done a repeater in large there are quite a bit repeating in large it enlargements let's just go back and see what they were when it lifts up Jesus so this is the Jesus that people are supposed to be look and I'm saying it's not the Jesus the adventism presents and it's not the Jesus that our opponents are presenting this is the Jesus that we're supposed to present the one that's revealed in types so this is a typical Jesus typical Jesus isn't the real one it's a type of Jesus as shadows in symbols so those they could they could be the sanctuary furniture they could be rain or water they could be many different symbols it's manifested in the revelations of the prophets what does that mean what are the revelations of the prophets I've seen all these stories in the Bible the stories of the prophets as unveiled in the lessons given to his disciples what are the lessons that he gave to his disciples the parables and in the wonderful miracles wrought for the sons of men what are they all of those healings you could go to all of those healings they're all examples of Jesus and they're what we're supposed to be uplifting to the world knitted to the world secondly first of all to the church this is not the Jesus that are all in these children's stories these pictures of this nice man who's wearing this robe or even the literal person that's portrayed in the New Testament in the Gospels that's not the Jesus we're supposed to be presenting to the world the one was both to be presented is the one that's all typifies by these stories they're all in the shadows the symbols I'm saying that's prophecy by definition that's what the Jesus we're supposed to be presented to the world not the moral Jesus the prophetic Jesus coming back to our passage we need not despair because we've got a lack of understanding information is the problem that we're struggling with why why we've got bad information conscience has have been seared because we haven't got the correct information this was a satanic attack it's not accidental this is why when the third angel comes he's commanded by God to want to not do what is equal nine not to have any what can't have any mercy this is deliberate it's not accidental these people are willingly ignorant of what they're doing and then with people behaving like that you can't have show mercy upon them what you need to understand is the true force of the wheel this is the governing power in the nature of man this is what every child of Adam has been in doubt with before they ever met Christ before you ever meet Christ before you ever go through the everlasting gospel you have a will and it's the governing force but we're in slavery to doubt because the whole system the whole satanic system in the world tells you what you can't do it you know we own everyone in the world knows the rules they know how they should eat and how they should operate they've given the right information but what does the world keep on reinforcing you know through advertisement go on just have one more it'll be all right and everybody knows it won't be all right just have a look and it will be fine and everybody knows it it won't be fine brother Luke which is just believing everything we should be living in pain amen what is faith one of my sister says faith is prophecy period just puts faith equals prophecy because she studied this for herself and I didn't if we all agree with that it that we could take that simple because I think it is okay so if it's that simple what is prophecy the prophecy would seem to be the lineage of events don't do what that lead out that lead down it's the phrase for me that phrase think is the bit for me the witches lead down so if I were to lead you down the garden path leads because I'm doing that if I lead you down the path what does that mean if you're leaving someone okay you're taking down the journey so you have to work out if you the prophecy was the events that leads you down where you beginning you must be beginning at the beginning how do we know you're beginning at the beginning because we went to Isaiah 46 verse 10 and the Bible defined itself the ancient times is the beginning itself defining using William miller's rules so prophecy is this it's the line starts at the Alpha ends in the Omega and where are you we're in the middle somewhere so if you want to understand prophecy where you supposed to look you need to look backwards and where you're supposed to be walking forwards and that supposed to be backwards and coming forwards but you are and I think sister Tonya had said that there's this I don't know some Jewish proverb or something that that's how the Jews operate in their home the way they're supposed to operate they don't use the gree the grecian methodology the Hebrew methodology you do this you will forwards but you look backwards another way to express that I can't really I can't remember how the spirit prophecy quote goes maybe someone would find it there's a building here and there's the Sun here and what's the building in it what's the Sun and the building gonna do they're gonna cast a shadow so if you understand that symbology if you want to know what the reality is what do you what are you supposed to do you look at the shadow cuz you're not there yet you're not in the building you're not you haven't arrived so if you'll know what the building looks like it's the perfect replica here isn't it perfectly replicated so all you need to do is you go back here this would be the top which is the head and this is the feet so now you've got Daniel chapter 2 right here and you just lay him down and it begins in Babylon and thence all the way to the feet the whole symbology works this whole idea of looking at Christ through typology so prophecy is this and I'm saying faith is the same thing faith is looking at your past experience you have to look at your past experience to have enough trust to move forward how do we what was the premier example of that but for your question who do we go to because what's the premier example of trusting in your previous experience to move forward into the unknown I would suggest it's Abraham I will suggest this Abraham Abraham has to rely upon his past experience to enter into a place that no man's ever entered into before and when I mean no man no moral man has ever entered into before which is what to break the law of God yeah he's been told to break the law of God plain and simple Danny I don't think we can really maneuver our way through that and it has to be based upon the experience that he had in the past yeah sister to mean I'm saying if you don't see what I've just said in Hebrews 11 verse one we need to spend a couple of hours and and and go to those verses not just that one but other verses and work carefully what it's saying because I'm saying Hebrews 11 teaches what I've just said a surface reading seems to imply the it doesn't and that's the problem with his ruling middles rules and the Bible verses the surface initial reading says these rules aren't even these Bible verses aren't even connected with the rules and we're not used to meditating upon his word so what my cop-out answer is I've done this with brethren and and to my satisfaction he's been demonstrating the Hebrews 11 is this it's looking in the past to know what the future is so I'm saying you need to look at your own experience in the past what's the problem with that sorry yeah most of us have a bad experience okay but God has a plan here's the plan because he's turned you will go with an example that people don't like Deuteronomy 18 18 Deuteronomy 18 18 is is being fulfilled when in our in our line 91-92 William Miller 18 a 1618 18 if you understand that logic so is equal he's told to eat the little book John is told to eat the little book is he because it's a scroll so who eats a little book it's us yeah so straightaway there where John where Ezekiel and where Moses Jeremiah but Christ was the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18 18 so now with Christ we take on all these roles so when I say we're supposed to look at our past experience to have faith who are we we're all those Bible characters so the way we're supposed to approach the Scriptures is to make them and live in reality that those stories are about us not about other people if you checked dance these work he says something really nice April 1844 what changes into in the experience of the Millerites if people are on the same page where I'm going brother Tyler they've realized that the Virgin and it's and before they knew that Christians were the virgins so you could say when he realized there were the values before but it was different now they realized that they this small little group are the virgins they have a self-awareness and it's that self-awareness that changes their message and that's what we're required to do that's what faith is to really believe that you are Daniel I mean we can go through the logic of that how do you know you're Daniel because we're the final generation aren't we yeah and if you're the final generation what you're not going to have you're not going to have children because otherwise they'd be the final generation so you can't have any children we all understand this is not literal did you have your hand up we have to understand anything boy yeah and what's happened to Daniel about children is a unit he can't have children so you know he's a symbol you know you can tie it you can tie the logic together to do that but what we're not willing to do is enter into the experience of this man and make his experience ours and really believe that what he's walking us through is our own thoughts and feelings our own ideas we speak about Jeremiah and who's he battling against beside the Kings he's got these false prophets and we say it's the false prophet against a true prophet it was easy to know who's gonna win isn't it but when it comes to us where we're not willing to enter into that experience and realize that we have to deal with false prophets some level did a lot of the prophets when they were having a certain experience that they were actually there were actually experiencing what we're supposed to be experiencing here at the end of time and you just flip it around and there know that we're supposed to be experiencing and understanding who they are if you had the beautiful experience in your past life great rely upon that when I say your past life what past life am I talking about by the way Old Covenant what luck your Christian life is not your pre-christian life because there's no point in going back that far it's it's your Christian life if you can't go back to your Christian life and say that was a beautiful experience if it's riddled with failure then what hope is there for you both of us are going to say there's no hope but if you follow what we just read in first elective messages and you see Christ provide in all of those Bible stories what hope does it give you but to me it does because it says youth is that God is offering you something different even though it's gone wrong in your past Christian life and why did he go wrong in your past Christian life cuz you're a bad person yes why is it gone wrong dnews right force of the will information information you just had bad information no I never told you it doesn't work that way and to me that's what makes the gospel so beautiful because God only holds you accountable for what you're accountable for and what you're not accountable for how can he hold you accountable for that okay so the last part of the passage steps to Christ 17.1 you cannot change your heart you cannot of yourself give to God it's affections but you can choose to serve him you can give him your will he will then work in you to willing to do according to his good pleasure he'll convert you how does he do that through this law and this testimony this is the thing that's going to convert you thus your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ your affections will be centered upon him your thoughts will be in harmony with him the consecration is chapter 5 do you know what the next chapter is Oh title someone could have a quick look Kaptur seven tester discipleship and chapter eight is growing up in Christ so what is the test of discipleship anyone else what's in your heart the truth whatever it is is in your heart that's the only test that God is ever gonna bring to a human being he never looks at your mind why would he not look at your mind because we'd bring in I mean if you went to your State University and you brought in one of the professors in and he might even be in like a nobody in the in the scale of the world but I bet you his lock lever than us and he could run circles around us or we could bring someone who's got really you know in whatever sphere lots of people have got great minds so if if if God was looking at the mind all of us would be at the bottom of the pile that and the world would wind wouldn't they he only looks at the heart because you can't change that that's the test of discipleship where this truth if you're going to call it the law that has to be all of this stuff where is it in the heart that's the only test of discipleship that there is it's not the quantity I don't like to say that this way because it might not sound right but it's the quality it's some all about location of where this truth where these Lori's is in your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ how can your whole nature be brought in if it's only the lower passions that are being dealt with because here you are you've got this whole being and it's got the body and it's got the lower passion powers the moral part and the intellectual part how can it once this that once this heart changes everything changes how do you process that how do you work that out okay can I ask it again she says you cannot change the heart but God can the last bit I just paraphrase you can't change the heart hiko she's gonna change your heart when it changes your heart your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ your affections will be sent it upon him your thoughts will be in harmony with him everything changes how can that happen if you change one part valeri that is the control seat we picked out from Ventus own one to seven robos Tyler that's where all the problems are that's your whole H will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ your affections will be centered on him your thoughts will be in harmony pian what our affections and thoughts character thoughts and feelings makeup moral character it's all here what do you take to heaven so if you're going to use this phraseology what you take you to heaven you get out of surgery and they're going to cut out your your heart cut out your heart you're gonna take your heart to have it that's all that can go to heaven your heart nothing else can we can we just use that symbology there because it says you can't change your heart you can you just you can give it to him so once that heart has changed everything's changed and this I think was the observation the sister Terry made right at the beginning that the soul is both the heart and the whole person they can be used interchangeably because once the hearts change everything's working properly oh it could to believe that because I think when she says this she says that straight into heart changes everything works properly now what you need to see I think is that the intellectual powers and the moral powers what happened when we became when we turn from sinless to sin for what happened to them in their functioning ability now in their ability to function what happened nothing nothing happened they were not damaged the problem is always with the heart is it was hard work with Christ is hard work with us you can only operate the heart so what has happened is the check you know the balance you can see our trip zipped around so the lower passions are now in control we're out of control but then function mechanism is all good now I know we have a lack of information there is that all that to deal with but the ability to process that it works perfectly well so when we are we're going to take to heaven is what our heart and the heart is what what's the other symbol for heart how do you think you can take to heaven is your lower powers your lower passions you don't take your will you don't take your higher your that's all that you're going to go with you think about the implications of that moral I'm saying it's like computer code it's it's just you put in something at the top and you get the answer just churns it out at the end it's just computer code it's just if you say yeah okay it's the same across the board for everyone I guess what I'm saying is some of these things to give practical examples takes a little bit of thought and maybe I have it maybe between us we haven't thought about some really practical examples but what I'm doing is showing you the evidence without showing your practical example of how and how that looks but the implications are are there what do we take to heaven sister similar your character what is your character thoughts and feelings thoughts and feelings in your affections and your thoughts your fetching your thoughts are housed where in the heart not in the mind and not in the will so that's the only thing you're going to take there and now by definition we've said that the heart is the lower passions that's what goes to heaven that's what that's what's there you have to you have to go with first of all the weight of evidence then you have to go and try and understand what that Bible verse means and the depths of it so if I'm setting up a framework and I'm just saying use an example if you're going to throw Bible verses at me that try to shoot that model down which is fair enough you have to first of all not just throw me a Bible verse you have to show me that the structure is wrong the framework is wrong and people object to this when we say in a crass way that we go to the lines and the lines control us not the quotes because we take the quotes and bring them to the lines and we're not willing to do that with we're not in the habit of doing that and we're happy are we in the habit of doing that in this movement that we take the spirit process quotes from bringing to the line I'm going to say we are but we do it in a limited fashion when it fits our comfort zone when people say if it's an established truth then we'll do it now isn't established is it as an established truth that we're supposed to take morality and do that I'm gonna suggest no for some people they say it is for me when we start taking the hole of inspiration and start doing it that way people have become nervous so I'm saying the nature of man has to be brought to our attention in the same way it has to be brought to a line and people are saying we don't approach it that way because the nature of man is connected with the nature of Christ and there are people who like studying the nature of Christ and when I say this I'm not if people think I'm picking on people I'm not I really am NOT people have already understood this subject and it's dear to them and now where someone says put it to a line they say we don't need to I'm saying everything needs to be brought to a line because if you don't you make a wrong application and at the most basic level you'll do the work in the wrong time period so when I say bring the medical missionary work to a line it tells you when you're supposed to do it and who you're supposed to do it to just to that simple level I think it should make sense a sister to minister yes this is this is this is the heart the heart and the mind yeah I'm trying to keep that symbology okay you know what we have to remember these these are just my parables if you like of trying to trying to explain complex issues it's not that you know it these these are miracles that are happening like I can't explain how that miraculous process happens I can I can show you if I drop this thing you know gravity works I can't explain what Amity is it's beyond my ability to do that but what I can show you is that what you take to heaven is your lower passions you low powers if I said that at the beginning people have said that's craziness because people's understanding of lower passions and powers is something there's evil and dirty and horrible and it's not something that makes me the information that you have I agree you take information which are memories all I'm saying is what you're going to do when you get to heaven you're gonna you're going to go to heaven which is your lower passions not not yet if I can just use it as that way and you're going to take a book and this book is your biography so it's just information that you're taking they're just the memories of your life so I'm not saying that you don't take your information basically you don't remember who you are let me ask you a question nothing to relate to this totally unrelated I'll say when you get to heaven all your sins are blotted out yep so God so God goes in fearing that he doesn't remember it when you remember all your sins will they be blotted out of your memory so you're gonna know them and God doesn't this is your life history your life history is in your brain when you get to heaven and look it's not listen this is a symbol of your memory bank so it's gonna say July 2017 you did something is that you're not going to remember that and you get to have it it's not blotted out I think whatever other people think about that issue but I think there's a misunderstanding of that issue why beliefs well that's why I brought it out we talked about the Blood Mountain out of sin after we talk about it's you raised from your memory that you can't remember stuff and I'm saying if God were to do that to us what kind of God would that be if he if he against your will takes out your life your history who you are what made you what you are which is I think what you're inferring and I'm agreeing with that I'm saying there are people I'm throwing this room but 100 percent in this movement who don't believe that they believe it gets wiped out your memory and they'll use spirit proxy quotes to try and prove that and I'm using the lines to prove that it can't be so brother bob says affliction will not rise up the second time if God whitewashed all of our minds we didn't know anything about what happened the controversy why would didn't I've been you know sin could rise up again but the reason why sin won't rise up again because the whole universe well understood the end understand the nature sin what it is which was never understood prior to what what happened with Lucifer and what's been playing out for the last six thousand years rubber Richard LD Jeff you know that song about a to every different stories and angels will know thanks you both their wings gonna hear is communicate these things and happy till of the world's about our experience and what God has done for us always struggle with the thought that if I don't know my sins how do I recite how God redeem me how do I tell redemption story if I don't even remember how it was redeemed so I never process really thought that through into the stages of a praise God yet brother Larry just along what you're saying that God's gonna is not a respecter of persons so we're all in the earth made new but we're told that we're gonna study God's Word throughout eternity so how's David and Uriah going to have a Bible study and not know that they had that interaction in history revelation 21:4 is a good verse to tell us that we will remember God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there should be no more death neither sorrow nor crying neither shall there be any more pain for the former things are passed away paragraph two steps to Christ 47 desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go but if you stop here they will avail nothing many will be lost while hoping and desiring to be Christians they do not come to the point of yielding the will to God they do not now choose to be Christians for me that's the definition of being a Christian and then f you how you say it if that were the case if you if you so even if you don't believe it I'm saying that's the definition of being a Christian if that's the case what is the definition of being a Christian there's there's been brought to view here yeah the definition of being a Christian is someone who makes choices so definition of not Christian is someone who desires to make choices you desire to make choices you're not a Christian if you actually put those desires into action that's the definition of being a Christian they do not come to the point of view doing the will to God what does it mean you yield the will to God does that mean you say God you take my wheel it's all yours you brush it up clean it up and sort the problem out because that's how people read that sentence just on the thing you said no what does it mean yield your will to God so it's louder sir I didn't so God says I want you to choose this and when you yield your will to God you'll say okay I'll choose that one the one that you want me to choose as opposed to choosing the one that I would choose and sometimes that could have been in rebellion sometimes it could have been because you didn't they know the information but yielding the will to God is not saying I've got a weak will that I'm going to surrender over to you that you do it we have to take responsibility which is the whole issue about this controversy that's going on and you and your will to God means I'm going to do what you want me to do not what I want to do brother Tyler say it again 48.1 through the right exercise of the will an entire change may be made in your life by yielding up your will to Christ you ally yourself with the power that is above all principalities and powers you will have strength from above to hold you steadfast and thus through constant surrender to God you'll be able to live the new life even the life of faith so whatever this is it's the new life so it's good life life of faith is the life that's new and how do you do that through the right exercise of the will if you exercise your will in the right way what happens an entire change where is that change focused in the heart can you change the heart so what's being taught to viewing this paragraph you can't change the heart but it talks about the exercises of the will with your exercise the will then the heart changes almost seems like a domino effect you do this this will happen by default so if that's the case and you're living a corrupt life you know if you feel that you haven't got the new life you haven't livin the life of faith which is the same thing that means you haven't had an entire change of your life and whose fault is it faith without works is dead people are look in this thing when I say you need to do things in your own strength as some kind of demonic theology and I'm challenging people to say what am I saying any different to what we've just read that faith without works is dead even the life of faith brother Jason picked up the faith and then he said faith without works what is the works whose works God's work so your works our works people think that's toxic what does it mean when we say God's work and our work what do you mean what won't people mean when they say it because they misunderstand what that means God's works or the works that you want you to do so if he says do something and I do that that I'm doing God's work I'm doing what he wants me to do yes it would appear to be so it would appear to be so but I'm saying this is the relationship between God and man once you drop the first domino he will do the rest and it really is that simple if we really believed that if we just did what he told us to do in the way he told us to do it first he would fulfill his part of the game the Covenant the deal however we looked at that you know we're so used to living in the literal world that if we put two dominoes and we knocked them together we'd say it's all you know it's obvious but if you go into quantum mechanics you'd see that actually what is actually touching what a hoax a whole framework of how the world operates it just doesn't doesn't work on this Newtonian basis that we all live in that we think it's all literal there's a supernatural power that when the Domino hits another Domino it topples over but we just see the mechanical effect of that and I think that's what I'm trying to suggest there's the miraculous work when the Domino hits another one and it makes it topple when you choose to do something and God changes your heart that change of heart is a miracle you don't have a power to do that belief but if you don't take the first step in the exercising your will and getting your life in order and saying I'm going to do what he tells me to do nothing ever happens and you know the way you use the way you just said that it sounds like will worship will worship that I'm going to have I'm going to be converted or saved through my own will if I try hard enough I can get into heaven so and worship in God just through the exercise on my own will sir it's the price that people use will worship I think you see anyway I think it's a Bible first as well asked if we could say if we do the right thing for the wrong reason that there's a domino effect that we eventually essentially eventually do the right thing for the right reason because the Lord changes to how we say it that way I would when I say do the right thing for the wrong reason I think people have misread that so let me try and explain if what we've got left on this earth is threescore and ten that's what we have why not be pleasant to one another if we didn't have eternal life why would we want to live miserably here on earth so when I say do the right thing for the wrong reason I'm saying don't have eternal life but just enjoy yourselves here instead of being horrible to each other that would just be basic courtesy it would be common sense you know if you're going to an argument with someone and have you never have ever felt the adrenaline rush and how awful it makes you feel or when you know that you're about to get into trouble with someone your heart starts pumping and you feel horrible your palms start sweating who enjoys that kind of stuff it's not an enjoyable experience and I'm saying that is outside of salvation so when I say do the right thing for the wrong reasons why not just leave pleasantly with everybody but I'm saying that is not Christianity and I'm saying that's not salvation so even though I just said yes because you said if you did that eventually I'm saying the first steps to Christianity is doing the right things for the right reason and hating to do it which is subtly different so the print thing I'm saying at this school why can't we just be nice to one another even if you don't like each other even if you hate each other just put a smile on your own face and treat each other respectfully in the way that whole world knows that we're supposed to treat each other why can't we do that and that's not Christianity that that's the point I was trying to make by that Christianity if we're going to read what this says you're doing the right thing for the right reason but you don't like it nobody likes seeing the two mill vegan plan or whatever but we do it because God says even if you hanker after things then when you do that then once you've submitted your will to his will he will change your heart so Christianity for me live in the new life living the life of faith is finding pleasure in Christ and only he can make you have that experience if you're married many people here are married you can go through all the rules of marriage and still have a miserable marriage and many people do they stick together for whatever reason they stick together because it's financially beneficial but they're miserable in that experience and that's God doesn't want marriage to be that way he doesn't want Christianity to be that way he wants you to actually enjoy marriage enjoy being with him the reason why we won't get to heaven is what else in this room he's gonna punish us because we're bad people I would say no he doesn't want us to come into a place where we will not enjoy ourselves you know if we could flip this around the other way he doesn't want us to go to heaven if all you have to do is be a slave to everybody for eternity or you have to go to church every Sabbath and you can't ditch out or your next-door neighbor isn't as nice as you want it to be and you say I can't wait til I get to heaven to get away from this person because when you get to heaven you can't get away from them to me our whole concept of what how heaven operates and why we won't be allowed there is warped and distorted he won't take us to a place where we won't enjoy ourselves if you're single and you'd read you're dreaming about marriage who was to get if you're a man who wants to marry a horrible woman you know so that she can iron your clothing and cook your meals because that's what marriage is about isn't it taking care of your bodily needs if you had all of that and you marry someone who's horrible that you're not gonna have fun with why would you want to do that brother Jonathan what is righteousness by works what is righteousness by faith it's the opposite dude right he says by works he's doing the right thing for the right reason for the wrong reason you got work out what righteous by faith is before you can go to that one I think that's the easiest way to do it because many persons have got a wrong understanding righteous by faith if you understand what that way you could be you could right you could understand what righteous by works is and you say we've run out of time anybody got last point let's pray Heavenly Father we want to thank you for your goodness and mercy lord help us to have a clearer understanding of the rules that you have handed down to us through your manservant William Miller as we see how angels guided his mind how he it would seem above and beyond his human ability crafted together these rules laid Bible verses that at first sight contradict those rules or don't add to them lord help us to be humbled in the dust and stop relying upon our own human strength to follow your will may we follow the injunction that you have given to us that we should accept the gospel I stated in your word not by man and father as we consider the relationship between the will the moral power and the lower nature our thoughts and our feelings help us to come to a correct understanding of who and what we are and what we will take to heaven let us do this end we pray in Jesus his name I mean