(11-15-17) - Afternoon - The Third Angel - (wyra8GVkErE)

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Publish Date: 11/16/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (11-15-17) - Afternoon - The Third Angel-wyra8GVkErE
YouTube ID: wyra8GVkErE

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so let's some turn to great controversy page 457 paragraph 2 great controversy 457 the history of ancient Israel is a striking illustration of the past experience of the Adventist body God led his people in the Advent movement even as he led the children of Israel from Egypt in the great disappointment their faith was tested as was that of the Hebrews at the Red Sea had they still trusted to the guiding hand that had been with them in their past experience they would have seen the salvation of God if all who had labored unitedly in the work in 1844 had received the third angels message and proclaimed it in the power of the Holy Spirit the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts so the light would have been shed upon the world years ago the inhabitants of the earth would have been warned the closing work completed in Christ would have come for the redemption of his people so we're reading this because of the third angels message so what what is this passage teaching us about the third angel first you have to receive it and then don't you have to receive it and then you go sure he's out you sister listen anyone else because already I was wondering what this would look like because I thought I already wandered the world in the history what warning are they giving under the third angels but they haven't already given where do you say warning a third of light would have been shed upon the world world years ago the inhabitants of the earth would have been warned the closing work completed and Christ would have come for the redemption of his people so it's that last sentence you're asking repeat your question what would they show in middle right his friends a second angels what what they warning them so they lit there but they're not using that phraseology close of probation they're saying and he didn't so I assumed that she's saying after that time period if God's people hadn't been I don't have to express it lazy or they hadn't failed in their mission and had carried on doing that work the Christ would have returned and the warning given to the world that he really was going to come is that as our answer your question which bit doesn't seem to fit the reform line they've already been to the church and the world and what else if all had labored unitedly in the work in 1844 so if all who had labored unitedly in the work in 1844 had received the third angel's message and proclaimed it in in the power of the Holy Spirit then the Lord would have done something so what is the so dangerous message that's been spoken of here and when is that let's begin with that I'm asking how we read that passage 1798 40 44 so we've got the first angels message here the empowerment the arrival the empowerment when she's talking about the third angel where is she placing this how would you read that let me ask a different question we normally put the third angels message on October 22nd 1844 we don't we do so I'm asking where do we even get that from why we even placing it there what have you read heard found how do we know where to place the third angel what what prophecy quotes are we using how we how we working that out going back to maybe first principles first ideas how do you go about constructing that reform line to get the third angels message there in the first place wherever you gonna place it so there are people in this room who teach a reformed line maybe thought everybody has many of you have how do you go about constructing that line when it comes to the issue of the third is the first one straightforward enough one e1a yes because we've done that already haven't we onee pretty straightforward we've done that one to a week and we can do that tui straighten that looks like that's a bad looking for so I think we could work out a logic to do that one and the empowerment I think we read the other day that was straightforward how do we get how do we know where to place the third angel so this is one passage I read another passage to you this is Maranatha 61 point 4 sixty-one point four had Adventist after the great disappointment in 1844 held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening Providence of God receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts and the work would have been a completed and Christ would have come ere this to receive his people err to receive his people to their reward sorry some love with words though actually make much sense as he was little painting but he has to I stumbled over them but it last bit again the work would have been completed and Christ would have come here this to receive his people to their reward similar statement to what we've just read not it still not arching sister Teddy's question what is your question okay so you're setting 3/8 because you've built some stuff into it but you're saying this was a warning where where'd you place the warning because she said st. you said second okay so you don't you don't me to stop there you wanna say all of this is a warning from here this is a warning so I won't address posted Church in the world cuz I don't know how straightforward that would be to do that because where would where would first to church be I don't think you can do that this line that simply wait first start starts here doesn't it yeah and these Lister first is this the church what's the passage in the great controversy can you find it sister shamila so Midler and his associates if what Miller associates America great controversy something well maybe this exists ELISA would find it I think I think Miller associates and America should find it and first safety speed that Miller and his associates at first believed that the 2300 days would terminate in the spring of it that's not the one 368 that sounds better could you read that for us brother Richard Culebra's I'll call a purse or anything it was given to preach the warning in America this country became the center of the great Advent movement it was here that the prophecy of the first angels message had his most direct fulfillment writings on Miller his associates was carried to distant lands wherever missionaries have penetrated in all the world were sent the glad tidings of Christ be returned far and wide spread the message of it from there far he'll want to spread the message of the everlasting gospel fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come okay so it's first starts in America but the merrier why does it have to first start in America that's where God's people okay any more than that it's right by anymore logic sister penny X will you smiley so it's the glorious light good so it's the glorious slide poverty well innocent the relation toxic says what that's not America yes ocarina as I shouldn't say yeah it's not America the earth helps her for sure Europe is water Europe is Babylon and they're gonna leave Babylon and go Lauria slang room just to show Sardis so Sardis means to come out and they've been held in captivity in Babylon so they're gonna come out of Babylon and if you come when you come out of Babylon this is the end of the 70 years who helps you to come out Terry also I thought you said something who ever to come out no sort of sorry sorry yeah that's society Cyrus helps you to come out Cyrus is the medo-persian to horned sheep it's America that helps you to come out helps you to have this freedom and also Cyrus it has a second role to kill Babylon which is France to Han power Egypt and Sodom so we have a lot of evidence to know that this sees first the church and he goes to the world here in 1840 first the church than the world says it in that passage in fact if you could check the history carefully when this it really start first going to the world when did it really start going to the world first shout out someone where is it here 1837 we've done this in class we haven't okay so a first angels message Pig or giving glory says the 1837 so the answer is going to be found in the book great controversy you go to great controversy to find out why that year is and if you I think if you put in the year 1837 and and jump to the crate controversy because there might be a couple of different plates that places its found before I know a number of us already know the answer but if for those who don't see if he searches 1837 in the great controversy does it come up yeah sister Terry you read that passage that justice mr. snippet that we want during the twenty four years from 1821 1845 traveled extensively in Africa visiting Egypt and Abyssinia in Asia traversing Palestine Syria Persia baccarat and India he also visited the United States on the journey thither preaching on the island of st. Helen Paulina he arrived in New York in August 1837 and after speaking in that city he preached in Philadelphia and I finally proceeded to Washington and what he did we in Washington didn't say he says just a little bit on emotion brought forward by the ex-president John Quincy Adams in one of the houses of Congress the House unanimously granted to me the use of the Congress Hall for a lecture which I delivered on a Saturday honored with the presence of all the members Congress and also the Bishop of Virginia and the clergy and citizens of Washington okay so he doesn't directly present before Congress in some kind of official capacity but they're in some kind of side room and the whole of Congress comes so I'm saying in 1837 the first angels message is going to be proclaimed to Congress so that's why they mark in 1837 here on the Sabbath so you think when tommix when when the message is presented to Congress it's a serious issue and when did that happen for us 1888 in our history brother Tyler 2015 September so that has to have some significance when you when you present something for Congress its first time he's ever presented a Pope's present before Congress so it says 21 to 40 21 to 45 so wolfies already taking the message to the world in 21 so often we don't we don't talk about it in that perspective so you have 21 when he begins to preach and Miller begins to preach in 31 10 years later so you have a 10-year gap between them so it's first in the church in America and then in the world so we're going to construct it that way but real life is a bit more complicated because Miller is actually behind wall so we've done that so this warning message your question is the warnings already be given we're somewhere here aren't we so why is there a second warning what was this warning solicitous and this warning is saying was Christ ever going to return here anyone else was he ever going to return October 22nd he was since I got all this theology correct everything was sorted out he would have come you believe that but that wasn't my question that would not not what they were expecting I'm saying if they literally yeah so he was never going to come here ever said he says here flood of life would have been shared upon the world years ago the inhabitants of the earth would would have been warned the closing work completed and Christ would have come for the redemption of his people so are you here or here in that quote you really Maranatha you I so that way sister penny how you reading that do you have you in front of you the Maranatha quote Maranatha oh you could write Maranatha sixty one point for GC for 57.2 then almost the same quote I suspect the Maranatha one is a earlier version of that or someone could choke because Maranatha isn't original sister Tess second brother Luke second sister penny sister shamila can you sit can you see it's this one not this one she's referring to or not yet this is under the farad angel yeah yeah I can see how it can be I don't force you into it but not it can be is because if it can be that means it can be this one yeah I'll change my okay I got a forty but just Maranatha it said after the great disappointment anything worried or if they had held their faith and followed on so then the world would have been warned so it with the warning Castillo after that period based on that it's pretty clear it's a be using the GC quote and the GC quote didn't quite say it that way the context is the same yeah the language is almost identical identical so you're happy that it's afters okay so the question is here Christ was never ever going to come back to earth that was just the mistake that they made they didn't do their work carefully enough no what did he he covered his hand over that mistake which had been which really which had where was his hand here he covered his hand over this he took it off so he did that one but this one he never did that was just their own I don't know if it was supposed to be or not supposed to be controversy so it's not God's design that it is but it's I don't know that we believe in predestination away it was their human think in an arrow so that one she said every time he says so the disappointment that they have at the Red Sea who's wise that disappointment being created okay we'll use some sanctified logic why they disappointed at the Red Sea because it was it God's designed that they should be disappointed all these it whenever you get these disappointments I think it wasn't meant to be disappointment brought a couple of times you know that the Millerites are not going to have a choice but to be disappointed so that particular route was designed to keep them did they have a choice to go into the shorter route the way the Philistines and to have a choice to go that way the way you there's these two roads which way what's directing their way ya know what's directing their way the pillar Georgia dad to death that one it man it went again you think it's a really I think no the Lord revealed to Moses that that disappointment was gonna come before didn't happen the towel is with them know when they were going beyond set Oh being accomplished okay so someone find sister show he's looking for the cloud what what leaves and not from the way the philistine but the way of the Red Sea so I'm gonna find that one okay so I'm saying that Christ was never going to come and we're going to process that the disappointment or not so this warning is for his real coming and this one isn't so we're okay with that how do we know when the third angels coming is this quote enough to do that for you had Adventists after great disappointment in 1844 hold fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening Providence of God receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world is that proof text to show that the third angels message is here not it's not proof text for you so anything you okay with that or not yeah I'm just trying to remember that's my that's thank you yeah no I know so it's God's that directed him to the Red Sea they don't even have a choice which way they're going with the clouds going that way and they're looking back at that path they're thinking they're heading in the wrong direction brother Bob looking at the Miller I remember hearing in this classroom and reconciling within my own mind that that the third angel arrived at midnight on July 21st of midnight when tango snow delivered that message and then it was actually empowered on October 22nd 1844 and and because that there's a three-step testing process and milla rights were tested and were being tested so they went through that whole testing process between 1798 and October of 1844 so when you said you heard in this very classroom when was that I remember the past week and a half okay yeah so I thought you make like grease like me yeah that's not evidence no that's not admissible every day we're trying to go back to proving that it is that than why I said that yeah so I'm trying to say I know I said that I'm not good but I'm trying to say why am I saying that how we have where's our evidence our way to place a third angel so we have to begin there how Ellen White's going to use that Idol if there were any hands it's just a show you had your hand up didn't really have the hand up besides the taste loud please yes no this is long before 18 no so this would be for the second Advent since the test July 8 yeah after the Israelites had left Egypt and had come to the Red Sea the armies of the Egyptians came out to compel them to return the people that Moses was leading were in great distress they knew not what to do the eye of God was upon his people and he did not mean that they should perish the pillar of cloud that had gone before them by day at night became a pillar of fire and hung between them and the Egyptian army so that God was indeed a wall of fire around it that his people this is all before the recipe okay so we're back here any more thoughts so you're not taking this as a proof text to show it's October 22nd 1844 you sure so Terry okay oh so the question is when we looking at the third angel when there's a third angel arrived I'm saying I could between us we've already done this one in this one that was you that was your homework we haven't had the chance to prove this one and this one but but this one we spoke a couple of days ago maybe it was a Monday I can't remember it was it Monday that we that we had quite a bit of evidence here and the logic that we used is here I think these are the three quotes for it it talks about August but I'm saying if it's August you get into problems remember it we should we looked at the chart we that lines up the midnight cry with the loud cry and I'm saying you have to shuffle it back to July and you know we developed a logic for that whether it's right or wrong that's the argument but we've got to we here so I've crossed the TUI just that this to get this point here and the arrival of the second I think we could find a reasonably good quote for that maybe people would argue against it but I'm looking at the third angels message where do we place the third angel that's my question and I've given you great country v8 controversy 457 and we just read Marin Arthur six what 61 point four just as an aside it's it is actually on page 457 would that not be proof enough for you this delivery that wouldn't the Maranatha one is a dodgy one it's a compilation they've run the route we do that often if I think he but if I did he Bruce if I did Hebrews 8:10 I don't know what 810 is or anything like that but if i went back to jeremiah 31:33 same passage I would use that one to demonstrate my point even though the Hebrew one up maybe 810 has something that's had some meaning to it but that the the main one is GC four 57.2 so so I would say 457 to 1844 and this is on page 457 if you would need to take that as evidence brother Jonathan doesn't like that numerology okay brother Luke brother Richard sister Sarah during the 65 years of the twins in 1798 when 1863 and okay so we know it's somewhere between here so you wanna go to the midpoint which is that one is that right that's not really not literally in years but we'll go with the Midway okay so he wants to do this 63 notes getting I was going for ready back so just in case people didn't know what he said it's 65 years here and the midpoint is 1844 not literally because it's 46 and 19 and here say in the passage is 61 point four which is 65 is that what you mean that's what you said that's what you mean yeah yeah scraping the barrel now but just check to the 30s here's uh this is where are we now this is BP BP 2 they paint BP theism boy what's that have no idea page seventy five point one middle of her brow she says sorry isn't it VP tool VP - yes sorry what he's beefy I'm in the app so I can't side to do the search it's not sure what was what book is that Thank You Marty Mitchell 107 at 65 oh this is Bates pamphlet that's why Bates pamphlet number two I thought it I'm not gonna call it there but it's interesting though it's still the good one is it is it's a game renault okay so this is Josie face yeah seis Pioneer right thing yeah but it's interesting there literally says the fifth state or the Saudis Church looks just like the nominal Church in 1844 when the third angel in revelation 14 were given their messages the Alfa's judgment is coming Babylon has fallen come out of her my people connected with the overpowering soul stirring cry at midnight behold the bracken comes going out to meet him so just bringing out loud with sisterwife's quota middlee as she connects me away which is a lot of seventeen to behold the bridegroom cometh and he just said what angel read that guy the the fifth state of my church looks just like the nominal church in 1844 when the third angel in revelation 14 were given their messages there are angels of the third angel when the third angel a revelation 14 yeah I'm just wondering when the third angel in revelation 14 were giving their messages that's how it's written he's that type of come lahardee sissies I know that's what's throwing me but he connects the third is that the online is that the new app someone have a look on the originally there years say the third angel the message isn't there nothing that's a typo now you did say typos of this it probably gently put in yeah that Center sounds like a typo but then he like he says it like again cuz it says get us a : this is the hour of his message hour of his judgment come Babylon has fallen come out of her my people connected with the overpowering soul stern cry in midnight and behold the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him sister teri oh you don't think there's a type bug no so you read to how it you read it how it goes the third he would had a mess of two words you have to mess up to you can't be a typo then he has to be deliberate and anybody listen the average judge miss common Babylon is falling come out with my people so it is giving three messages what do you see what is he doing where did you come out of her my people come for all messages revelation 18:4 yes okay what this is a good quote but we'll leave that for one moment we're trying to show when there's a third angels message coming history in this line when we place it so he looks like he's pacing it here sister Sarah which page 254 okay so we'll go to we'll go to that one then so early writings 254 real - what paragraph one I think so she's gonna spy paragraph one third message to the world okay so it doesn't give a date sister Sarah answer that question it doesn't give a date okay anyone else as the ministration of Jesus closed in the holy place and he passed into the holiest and stood before the Ark containing the law of God he sent another mighty angel with a third message to the world when does he go from the holy place of the most holy place so when he does but he didn't say past as the ministration of Jesus closed in the holy place you tell me when is a new one begin sister say let's taste in me come up both the way okay joining the empowerment of the angel that's already arrived okay so you have to prove it came here is the empowerment right wait right there okay this is sunset come sister Tamina got engaged now make sure I don't make a mistake sunset to sunset and rise so this date is the 21st this is the 22nd and this is the 23rd yeah when does the ministration in the holy place finish sister Tamina I'll give you some a b c d or b and this is rice where do you place the clothes which just said here as administration jesus closed in the holy place where is that we're gonna take you out the room we continue making experiments okay so it's not living where you go where you where you placing e prophet ila as the administration of jesus closed in the holy place where's that you tell me what you think it should be what wouldn't happen you have to use use difficult time because they're gonna use that's why i've not got sunsets here and I've only given you the option of sunset or sunrises oh so you're not even allowing him in that yeah okay so I can't even we will hear yeah brother rigidity here because uh on the Day of Atonement the literal day of atonement is the entire day they were spending in you know prayer and all that and it wasn't to the end of the day that the the SANS was placed on the scapegoat and she said it wasn't until at that point that they knew that they were right with God and I was at the end of the day I don't know how to work with that one was it an evening or all that but that leads me to think that it had to be the entire span but the in the time within why are we marking what am I asking so I've just read the sentence again so we're clear and I don't throw people it says as the ministration of Jesus closed in the Holy Place I'm marking the close of the Holy Place the end of the Holy Place I mean why didn't they say anything they think because it says the movement when crews when the high priest went from the holy place to the most holy place that was not at night deposit date times right Johnny and where's the week's problem that we have is we sent an angel and when did that angel give the messenger the message hold on the 23rd I'm mrs. Porter you say that here I'm just saying it says this administration of cheese's closed in the holy place and he passed into the holiest that passing in ancient time the high priest went into the most holy place not at nighttime the dark wondered when it was dog dark it was state day night so in C and E the sunset is dark outside and then biological no well no to everybody that's a good place to begin tied that I'm just questioning my understanding of an articie is it on October 22nd because work work either say at the beginning of the day or the end of the day I guess and so I'm trying to think it did he does the way mark does the line of the of the 2300 go to you know what time did it start my guess or I don't know I could is it is it on that there is at the end of that day nice okay everything I guess home house is rethinking see versus eat because int he basically I'm trying I sell he saying you saying he entered not at the beginning no I'm saying it's like wait he was in the day he was sleeping at the night so it was daylight when for the X I mean II know that's at least how I think that in my mind Tyler I think it's see in my logic is it's the whole Day of Atonement the 22nd would I guess would be the whole day this is Tamina it says when the work of and the second closes and the in excuse me a little work in the holy place closes so when is the work closing is it when he leaves the apartment and then goes into the next one because isn't that on October 22nd is meaning standing up and leaving the holy place on October 22nd 1844 and leaves that apartment that would mean that work closes on October 22nd 1844 and it doesn't close the beginning of the day comes at the end of the day that's what I'm thinking Sabbath doesn't the week doesn't end with Friday evening the week ends with Sabbath evening do you understand what I mean like the whole day is included special minute can you fight 7bc ninety nine hundred and seventy one to this I have no idea because that speaks of the first or second angels messages and then it goes on to say that this time which the angel declares with a solemn oath is not the end of us world's history neither of probationary time that our prophetic time we should proceed the advent of our Lord that is a people will not have another message of one definite time at this period of time reaching from 1842 to 1844 there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time the longest reckoning reaches to a writer of 1844 okay did that help I don't know this to answer the question about the third angel where can you place is there an angel on the line and we can you place it on the line I read this as you said he answered it so what was the answer you can't read it and they say else is it and then look for the okay I'm just seeing that the angel that declares with a solemn oath just tell me what the answer is I'm seeing the third angel at October 20 okay based on seven BC nine seven one paragraph one brother Larry then brother Bob administration ended October 21st Hey yes but see that what what sets it in for me and he says he passes into the holiest and stood before the ark doing his work of the most holy place it has to be on the 22nd so I'm saying see is the end of the 21st because here we are isn't the first time we've been in this room and you asked us questions and the answer isn't clearly even given to us and I'm looking at not the question of October 21st October 22nd I'm looking at when when they're angels arrived the third angel arrived and is it one of those cases where it's not if you just look at the quotes in the Bible and spirit of prophecy on the surface that you cannot find it a clear delineation of it it's only when you apply line upon line that you can actually see it clearly and then all the other quotes kind of fit in behind it and don't contradict because to me that's where we have to go with this because I don't know it doesn't seem like there's that we're coming up with any quotes that that are so clear on letting us know that the third angel arrived midnight and was empowered 20 seconds okay unless you do it for blind upon line I think I agree with that sister elevate your hand up oh yeah I know so what you say here no here seeking okay um so it's the whole class okay so we great see I think the logic that brother Larry says he accept that's why I kept the D there thank you need another checkmark under IDO it's card but but honestly I mean I understand how I understand it that the high priest he is on that day the 16th day of the first month he is at first in the whole year for this place and then he moves at that yeah they said the day into and then he moves in a most holy place so he has to be at that day first in the holy place otherwise he wouldn't he couldn't enter into the most holy place and that's why I'm saying it's D okay so we're somewhere here C or D the day of atonement began and sunset of the name the people had to begin fasting from that time if it was 16 gives us but also numbers tells you an evening and night day of the seventh month so it tells you from evening to evening yeah what the high priest does not begin doing anything just the point that Johnny is making until sunrise on the tenth day of the seventh month so even though the ministry begins at sunset where they begin the work of fasting and all of that the priest does not begin his work until the day of the tenth I understand that but if you're gonna go if you're gonna be silly about the whole thing you can't even offer sacrifices after 3:00 p.m. in the evening do you know if you're gonna get that pedantic about it you you only can you know you can't do any kind of work in the holy place during the daytime you can't even do it at nighttime so I'm pretty sure it's C so when we do this we're not going to open it up into this kind of idea we're just going to squash it down into one singular point so it says pretty clearly once that happens he sent another mighty angel with another with a third message to the world so he's going to send that F what is ministry if you're gonna be technically about if you're gonna take the corn field is the message coming to higher medicine it would be an F I'm not saying literally sunrise but it's in the morning of the 23rd it's often nighttime so regardless of all these intricacies are we happy that this angels being identified as coming here so we've got a three here for sure because Ellen um early writings I think this is they it says XV 3.0 so it's in the woman numerals hi I'm HP one of this lived in central New York state at 40 BC he was the lead of the Adventists in that era the believers meta means woman October 22nd 1844 to await the coming of the Lord calmly and patiently they awaited the great event but as the hour of midnight came and they realized the day of expectation had passed it became clear that Jesus would not come as soon as we had thought it was a time of bitter disappointment in the early morning hours Hiram Edson and a few others went all to his barn to pray and as they prayed he felt assured that light would come a little later has its nunna framework cross in a cornfield to visit fell Adventists it seemed as if a hand touched his shoulder he looked up to see as if in a vision the heavens opened and Christ in the heavenly sanctuary entering into the most holy place there to begin a work of ministry in behalf of his people instead of coming forth from the most only place to cleanse the world in fire as they have done careful Bible study by her ex F behind a physician and all are Acacio a schoolteacher soon revealed that is sanitary to be cleanse at the end of the 2300 years was not the earth what the Tabernacle in have with Christman history on behalf so we normally mark that three the mineral rights today at midnight but it should be sunset on the 22nd if you look at the work of grace ammidon and others and even though Hiram Edson is going to pick it up the next day it's we would really mark it at the beginning of the day on the 23rd sunset of the 22nd we okay with that so my question is that's right the day begins at sunset on the 23rd on the 22nd sunset 22nd which would be the beginning of the 23rd day yeah because you have to wait for that for them to be fully tested that's their argument okay and in fact I'm still trying to locate this as I don't if anybody knows where it's found snow maybe I haven't maybe someone's told me I can't remember snow had already factored in that the Day of Atonement is one day and he was expecting Christ to cleanse the heavenly sanctuary not the earthly with the heavenly sanctuary in one day and come to earth after he done that work which would be sunset on the 22nd so here when he built into that into his logic the Christ was gonna cleanse the heavenly sanctuary as he was supposed to have done in Leviticus so he didn't have these he didn't have this stranger idea that this that the earth was the sanctuary he'd really overcome that obstacle and he was expecting to be a literal day and so what Christ would come at the end of the day so you saying grace ammidon she was saying are you saying she's had them in the rites or wait until sunset no they actually wait till midnight I've saved you if you stick to the rules right look she yeah so they break their own rules they go back to a Gregorian calendar Shion could I start speaking because because they are because that they just they just crumble under the pressure he sent another mighty angel why we making that to e4 if you send him the angel 3:8 why are you making that threee if he's sending the angel I'm just I'm just understanding how she how she's writing this where do we place the three in the middle write history normally I'm not trying to ask how I'm doing it or the logic the why we do I'm asking how do we normally place it what's the evidence that we have so we I would have done this with goodness as a homework before so we're sort of running to it we're doing the homework together if you like where do we placed the third angel it's not here second st. pound parrot ar.drone he sent another mighty angel with the third message to the world partial what was pacing the angels hand and as he descended to the earth in power and majesty he proclaimed a fearful warning and with the most terrible threatenings ever born to man we spoke this morning about what fear and all of this stuff and right the third angel at the very end of that history it's a terrible threaten he never born to man this message was designed to put the children of God upon their guard by showing them the hour of temptation and anguish that was before them said the angel they will be brought into close combat with the Beast and His image their only hope of eternal life is to remain steadfast although their lives are at stake they must hold fast the truth the third angel closes his message thus here is the patience that Saints heard they that keep the commandments go and have the faith of Jesus they repeated these words he pointed the heavenly sanctuary the minds of all who embraces this message are directed to the most holy place where Jesus stands before the Ark making his final intercession for all those who all those for whom mercy still lingers and those who have ignorant ly broken the law of God this atonement is made for the righteous dead as well as for the righteous living includes all the all who died trusting in Christ but who not having received the light upon God's commandment had sinned ignorant ly in transgressing its precepts so why are we making that a threey that's right people are saying these three e I'm saying what's Ellen White saying it is a Bob the worid when a message arrives admit it has to it has to obviously come to an empowerment and it that sounds to me like she's talking about empowerment here not not about an arrival when a message arrives what people don't know that even exists there has to be an increase in knowledge on that rival of the message I've been more specific here in a minute I gotta read this again mr. tomato what what you thought and we co-own these passes and we've just misread them all of these years - written correctly all of those way marks we've got spirit prophecy quotes to defend them we didn't construct them so when it comes to the third can you demonstrate in this with a quote that the third angel arrives at midnight midnight midnight right where that tui is no I didn't ask that I said can you provide it quite there is the quote that says a lot 22nd the third day you'll arrived which quote is that is this quite you're referring to which quite you referring to wait says the third angels message arrived find it she's read that book I'm assuming she's not accepting this one so she might have another one and that one of something that's what I'm trying to find out are we reading this correctly to say it's a rival or if we misread it and she's actually saying this is the empowerment which is what brother Bob suggesting the beginning of the paragraph sounds like it's an arrival and then the at towards the end it sounds like it could be an empowerment of the same toilet provide that where it says an arrival or empowerment but this I don't think this book definitively proves arrival because if we're just gonna say one of when an angel comes it it means it's arriving then you you can't explain at least maybe you can but from my understanding you couldn't explain 18:40 where this angel comes down and it's empowering a message so just because an angel is present or coming down from heaven doesn't necessarily mean arrival okay so you said this passage doesn't explicitly tell you if it's an arrival yeah so it could be arrival does that mean it could be an empowerment as well we you can read that into this passage I think you tell me where you what you're reading here to get in Powerman with which words or sentence oh you have any front like I said that you're in a disadvantage if I if I were to quickly read it you can stop you stop me now to 54.1 now aw okay so you put it up you have a look 61 point toilet in the same passage 61 point so third angel is to be given what does that mean given by whom I hope I meant to say he felt like a high blood stream and she said so the third danger direct you to them to that place that's what she says she says it's our game do the points you would do in for the whole story baba Baba Jonathan the very end of their hey right correct in the early writings it's the only part that I'm seeing that that tells tells me that it could be in power hold on mighty anything super clearly possessed it says the third angel closes his message so he's closing his message it's got to be after the empowerment it's not it's not like when I just arrived she's closing it yeah I thought that we sister Danger Close he's just saying he ain't I sentence with a statement as opposed to the message she's coming to some titled American who just arrived but he closes this date holiday so I mean I just I don't see I want to rescind what I said about saying that this paragraph is showing me clearly that there's it's an empowerment I don't know that you can prove that it'd be nice if we could I think it's both both okay so he's going to show you that he can be it says clearly at the beginning he sends another mighty sin we had huh yeah okay he sent another mighty angel with a third message to the world period he send it yeah right and I would I might be wrong but I would make a break here and then now the empowerment the pattern was placed in the Angels hand and he descended to earth in power he's arriving for sure and his report I could let everybody other guy anymore okay so brother Richard brother Larry sister to me knows I'm actually gonna use some of the same logic wasn't looking at how the other angels arrived says he sent another engine with the third message to the world then sent a parchment was placed in his hand and we look at the Angela 911 that arise yes a writing in his hand and then also says he descended to the earth and power and Majesty and he proclaimed a fearful warning so even when I look at how the first angel come see tones with a fearful warning and both of those Angels is depicted as arriving as with the parchment in the other one is arriving as a fruitful warning so I think when she's talking about the third angel with those at least the two witnesses on how the other angels around I think this one will be the arrival of the third angel and not the empowerment you think he did rival Robin Papa's re the first singles message arrives wait 1798 did the Millerites know that it arrived at that time so then we know that it was in him the first angels message was empowered by a prophecy of revelation 9 so in my mind when I look at that model when I take it to the third angels message arriving with this crow quote did they know it arrived they were still looking for him to come so I'm thinking that it arrives then then it's empowered later mr. tomato I was looking at the quote early writings 2:16 where it says the rejection and of the person a second note says those who reject the first message could not be benefited by the second you know what if apparently the vitamin RI which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith in the most holy place of the heavenly century and by rejecting the two former ministers so dark and darkened our understanding that they can see no light in the third angels message which shows them the way into the most holy place so we see first the rejection of two messages then we see the midnight cry message a midnight cry mention and which prepared them to go into the most holy place and then she says basically that that is the third angels message so you have the already prior to like what I'm trying to do I'm not trying to even use lines or scales I'm trying to see when Ellen White talks about the third angel where is she placing that angel how does she approached the problem as opposed to how we approach the problem I guess that's what I'm asking brother Tyler why based upon what you reading you mean this passage two five four she says Johnny said it I think I think Johnny said it someone said a minute ago it says he sent another angel he sent an angel with the third message to the world that that reference where she says that I moved to another carrier for another passage but I think I think she's saying it's the arrival but I think the reason she says that verse is what we're saying about it an economy is based upon scale but I think the way she's going to approach the problem is from this linear long term big scale perspective and then by that perspective she's looking at an arrival she saw the beam he said you saying things to 5/4 yeah begins way I'm not going to put beginning on it was it because she's not covering a point in time and it is clear she's covering a period they must have a beginning tell us my beginning is that I 21st of July in this passage I'm putting my beginning there but I'm saying that in this passage she's covering a span of time tell us which tell us where the edges ended that span is this formula and tell us where the beginning of the span is midnight so where'd you get midnight at the beginning of the span of this passage I've not asked you that for a third time I won't tell me what'd she say why she's there with the beginning of the span that she's covering not that you're interpreting her covering the sister ELISA you've gotten cancer properly I'm gonna let you go sister ELISA brother Larry one the next sentence after Jesus opened the door of the most-holy the light of the Sabbath the scene and the people so there is also what does that make sure when they finally saw the light to the Sabbath and that was in 1847 when they were stopped few day you were doing well and then you shot yourself in the foot no after Jesus opened the door of the most-holy the light of this tablets have seen and the people of God were the word the pick up is okay so we're at what stage in a messaging you test it sister ELISA just for the listener no no in a message first second or third when are you tested now not first or second fit on any message where it's the first or the second or third at any place when are you tested let me rephrase my question the second angel isn't a history so middle right history looks like this our history looks like this when does the testing process begin for God's people at what stage in the message how many stages have you got you've got the arrival and you've got empowerment so at which stage in the message a God's people tested so I'm not saying your answers wrong I just make sure that we understand the tone so that is it at the arrival or the empowerment that that test begins but is the empowerment anyone else okay so it's @e that marks the taste sister all the V you agree with that yeah okay brother Larry right now time there's three persons which one in early writing stupid to jesus open yeah what administration Jesus closed in the mold in the holy place oh okay yeah Ryosuke hack board so now we know October 21st now any passes the holiest October 22nd and he still he stood before the art container law I've got he's still there October 22nd 1844 comma then it says he sent another mighty angel in my mind scroll is given angel comes down that's the arrived at these October 22nd 1844 first Tyler yeah so you had your hand up do you I see that we're putting that the test begins at the empowerment but you greatly that at all what it kind of seems like you have the arrival sometimes give me an example here from 1917 98 so way here do you tell me what the tech stays there test was the test was the disappointment and it revealed the revealed that they were that they were if they were wise or foolish sure what they were going to do with that information with the disappointment are you sure that's how you're gonna process that history but maybe answer that one besides a 98 is a test you know that's right is it maybe not three one two three where we got one now and then you're going with that one no no I'm saying I'm saying that silly 1798 I know we put the or at the the first empowerment is the testing the testing time why can't you be tested here because you have no you got no knowledge zero hold on to that thought let's go to 911 so this is not for everybody because I don't want to make I don't open kind of were maps of 911 so brother Tyler note we've spoken about this in ninety Levin can you be tested at nine eleven you can't okay so if so what I won't go any further than that once at seventeen ninety a you can't be tested because you don't know anything you have to grow come to a certain place here when you got the second the purpose of the second was to bring light to God's people it was the a that was doing the damage the two is the one that is going to help you because the two is going to bring the answer to your problem the two isn't the problem the two is the Savior it's the one II that's the problem the one II that's run all the way through here so this the Y plane is the angel that causes of disappointment isn't the two it's the first that's causing the disappointment - is the one that answers what the disappointment is and April do they know what the answer is they don't know what the answer is it's a rival it don't know it's only as you get to July because we're on it we're on the scale of corporate now now everybody knows what the answer is you can say something 1840 October 22nd 1844 doesn't she end up having problems with herself when she says the loud cry is joined by the another angel yeah so we have to see by her logic she's saying it's an arrival okay so we ran out of time let me just not wrap it all up but just try some loose ends together so this has to be a three eight let's begin with that point I'm saying it has to be a 3a based upon this point because we should have picked this up right at the beginning he says sometime in the future is this his as this Angels running through history it's going to be what it's going to be empowered in the future we know this is the whole point of our message so there's a danger that's going to come down here revelation 18 and then we're going to get an empowerment of 3e and this tree is our history we agree with that so we know this is a three a and a 3e so that's one point that we know the third angels message brings what what's its purpose judgment judgment is in how many steps two steps to select and to bind two steps the selection has two steps within it but it's still select what's the other word that we use for select investigate so the first step of the third angel that a part of it 3a is what investigate 3a is what execute so this is the executed judgment this is the investigative judgment so this is why this has to be 3a does that all tidy that up here when that when revelation 18 1 2 3 happens I think of a day because I don't want to give a date I'm saying to the whole block of this history so when executions gonna happen so does that make sense of that scale ok so Ellen White's gonna do something really tricky I'm saying because in order lat because at 3a can you be tested at 3a by definition you can't because we've got two Testaments that you can't be doing that but in the next sentence and sister ELISA point is out points out in 1844 this is where I said she shot herself in the foot because you went to 47 so in real light you go to 46 47 if we know that she was correct but you have to drop it back to 44 because it says after he does that the light of this tablet is seen now there might be some history but we're going to collapse that and make it 44 so in 44 you've been tested so what if you're tested what must it be it has to be a 3e so she in her writings is combining the 3 in the 3a together and this is the point that brother Richard was saying about what scalar were talking about and she's not going to do that for you she's not gonna do this scaling she's just going to throw things together and make it difficult for us to understand but if you if you're willing to search her writings this is wise asking sister to me no you can do it through logic but you still have to have some kind of anchor point of some Spirit prophecy quote and it's right here paragraph 2 the first leading sentence is the proof text to show you that October 22nd 1844 is 3e because it's the test so this is where the test is and you know that because this history here our history what is it the test of the what's happening not history sorry sister Cheryl the Sabbath test isn't this the Sabbath test what he just said here is happening Sabbath test for Sabbath fest and the Sabbath test so the Sabbath test is going to escalate but this is the culmination of the perfect fulfillment of the Sabbath isn't it begins back here so that the whole history from all t44 onwards is what it's all a Sabbath test and if it's a test it must all be three history all the way through if that's three e you have to now look for 3a back here somewhere which is another task but what she's done is she's combined the three a in the three E and what ad what where's Adventists the missed is we've just said how it's all three a because three a is dealing with the investigative judgment of the Dead but she has to include the three E in her writings if she was going to be our prophet she has to have done because the three years connected to what history this one so we talked about scale all of these angels are teeming with what group of people the Miller writes what's this one dealing with three a the dead that he's going back six out 6,000 years to Abel this has got nothing to do with Miller writes this one is to do with Miller writes and she has to incorporate or factor in this one to give you a complete picture of Miller write history 1st 2nd and 3rd angels messages I would suggest depending if you're going to say one E and one A's won a would be Genesis right back in Genesis if you're going to do 1 e 1 e 1 e is what do we normally mark in the history of Christ's baptism when's the world baptized the flood then you could mark Christ's first Advent at the cross would be righteousness to a you can you can Joe you can do it at that large scale I can't represent you can run through that history on the last scale so 3a is at a different scale looking at different people so she has to market here but she's also going to put in their writings because he it's a bit shaky if you if you don't have any spirit of prophecy quotes and you just using pure logic this is it's an escalation that he's the perfect fulfillment but the three had to have begun here cuz 3a is revelation 14:9 11 it's the issue of the Sabbath the Sabbath has been the test since 1844 but it's going to come to its perfect fulfillment back here but it's also 3a so the issue of combining messages and all of that is by the tiler it depends what if you're talking about the world it's not yes is three E for Everyone then you're sitting not just the Millerites in that time history then you're saying it's three for everyone first the church then the world if I could express it that way when I say everybody's not for the whole world that 3/8 first of the church then the world because when we've got 3e here we're going to open that up not the senior line we're going to extend it all the way through I'm going to say first to church then the world aren't we okay well hopefully that's begun to clear a little bit up why we've marking the 3e here and you know if you start searching her writings carefully I'm sure you'll begin to see more than just this one here where it's testing it's just and we just need to look harder so now you know now you know what to look for you'll be able to find the answer for it without even looking you'll never do that what we didn't cover is where 3a would be so what we didn't cover where the 3a would be in this history to prove it I think we're all going to say it's here I'm not arguing that it isn't but we didn't talk how did that one out just we didn't get chance to do that let's pray Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness and mercy we ask and pray that you would be with us guide us and bless us Lord as we try to wrestle with your word we ask the above everything else Lord you would help us to have integrity and to be honest intellectually honest with ourselves that we would not stop trying to pursue and understand your word that we would not be content with our current understanding help us to dig deeper long and investigate so that we might be able to give a reason for the faith that's in us as we see that you wrote in your words with a speed that even a few years ago we would never have imagined we want to thank you Lord that you have brought us here at the end of the world especially here at this school we thank you Lord for all the pain people have made it possible that we can be here with hopeful hearts we offer you praise in Jesus His name Amen