(11-13-17) - Afternoon - Latter Rain - (U3hwwLR3gwQ)




Publish Date: 11/13/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (11-13-17) - Afternoon - Latter Rain-U3hwwLR3gwQ
YouTube ID: U3hwwLR3gwQ



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it's pretty I mean did we last discuss in or afternoon class Hosea 917 hosea 917 thing that's right are we D - yeah we need to refresh our minds on the 2e I don't recall going doon Hosea he was 911 remember 911 is it 911 that we this Amos place because she said there isn't it Amos Hosea I got across way because they did not hearken unto Him and they shall we wonders among the nation yeah yeah that's great my god will cast them away because they did not hearken unto Him and they shall be wondrous among the nations that's from prophets and kings and that was connected to this theme here it's not the tennis - - so that was that so we addressed that and so we just need want to refresh our minds Daniel one is EQ one Jeremiah 1 this is 1 2 & 3 so I'm saying 1 2 & 3 three angels messages three kings all in order and Roy Kim Joo akin into the kaya symbolized by one eighty two E and three E why this joy akin are we okay that Zedekiah 3e we understand the logic of that because that's the destruction of Jerusalem that's close of probation 3e yes so if we're okay with that I'm gonna rub this up we've got these look we've got pictures of these haven't we sorry okay so that was my question well partly my question this is the close of probation isn't it Zedekiah and if we're marking this as 3e then why are we not saying that this is 22nd of October 1844 that's a closed operation as well for God's church people are asking the question because I'm Noel on White says 22nd of October of 1844 he's 3a yeah will we we're clear on that that's what she says and when take a little tow berries close of probation isn't it yes yeah yeah so we're okay with that because this is the Sunday law isn't it yeah one who's at the Sun little the Babylonians come and destroyed this church and they take over yeah so we've got all of these markers but I'm saying this is 3 e why would you mark 3 E because it's the execution of all the warnings that have already happened so just that just that that level most of us who were happy that Zedekiah was representing 3 e destruction of Jerusalem until we start placing a line upon it and the line that we placed upon it is Miller right history in middle right history we normally put 3 a day so we'll try and address that three a three years issue in the moment but if I take that out I think you're happy that three is the execution now the judgments going to be put into effect the warnings have already happened so why we're saying to E is joy akin what's interesting about your way akin sorry remember that first one that was at what age an 18 so you know it spans a 10-year period so there's some significance about that what event happens here when he's 8 remember summer besides this one Devine this right Alicia 880 for this event I know it's fun it's the first night in secular lighting who's his father came through the gate to work all right I'm leading down a dead end didn't do that brother barrier Willis backwards on me Candace what Babylon this holiday that is where Daniel is taken captive reporting on the Bible says that he was born in tears to be can be run going to work in Canada he thought he would have died the brilliant Santa she said yeah what is he said Mary then what happens give us a Bible verse for this even if he's not the exact here rocks right okay so we've got second chronicles 36 9 do you find the second Kings on Forest they read that Jared yeah sin was eight years old when he began to reign and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem and he did what he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord hey whitey are you ready three months why howdy because by then that's that that there even though it says that it was when he was 18 he didn't rain for three months when he was anointed at it so that belongs here yes sir three months even though it is it if the other one in Kings gives the age of 18 okay who had to hand up who's the king before Joey King that's here that's here second uh nineteen his father was dead so that's there at 18 so king is the king yes okay so now king is the king here and why's he being anointed here because what year is this right it's his third year the third or the fourth Jeremiah says it's the fourth that is a visitor so you have to profits in two different things where this time you say it's the third so joy Kimmy's gonna be taken to Babylon in that he becomes a vassal okay so this is the fourth year of Joachim there's gonna be some problems I'll put three between Israel Jerusalem and Babylon so he anoints his son to become king so I put King just in case yeah British you had your hand up a bit ago so he's that all making sense so Joe a Kim let's go one back who's the king before Jehovah Kim his has and who makes house King so how long is he gonna be on the throne for Joe he has so we've got three months for him and we've got three months for him and Joey Kimmy's gonna be 11 years and so the car is is 11 years who made you a king king okay so Josiah has just gone to battle he's been killed and who is Josiah anointed to be king in his stead who did he choose befriend tell what that means so Josiah is gonna anoint your Hayek in do we don't have Bible verse for that we dress second chronicles 31 he reigns for three months Egypt Egypt second Kings 23 verses 13 right second Kings 23 verse 13 and we just read from what chronicles so what is it saying 2nd chronicles or second chronicles just discarded quickly what that's it Eliott ii chronicles 36 1 says the people take your Jolla has and they make him King and he reigns for three months so we've got that then the king of Egypt takes him down and Mays makes a liar Kim his brother king over Judah and turned his name in Jogja Kim so he liked him and joy a Kim so we're okay with that so has he's for three months ain't you hire Kim he's gonna be here and he's gonna rain for 11 years we're gonna see so that's Jiraiya Kim so if we sorted that out then let's find the verse he's about to hire Kim it's in the same chapter second chronicles 36 I think we'll pick up from verse 5 Joachim was 25 years old when he began to reign in the arraigned 11 years in Jerusalem and he did that which was evil verse 6 against him came up and there weaken as the king of Babylon abandoning fetters to carry him to Babylon Nebuchadnezzar also carried the vessels of the house of the Lord to Babylon and put them in his temple Babylon now the rest of the acts of Joachim and is the abominations which he did and that which was found in him behold they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah and Israel and Judah and Joey akin his son reigned in his stead Joachim was eight years old and he began to reign and he reigned three months and 10 days in Jerusalem and he did that which was even in sight the Lord when the year was expired Joey zuray king Nebuchadnezzar sent and brought him to Babylon with the goodly vessels of the house of the Lord and made Zedekiah his brother king over Judah and Jerusalem so where's 3610 here so this eight-year-old that's going to be anointed here he's not the three months reign you have anymore Bible passages to cover all of this my statement will read that it says verse nine 36 9 zhuhai a king was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned 3 months and 10 days in Jerusalem and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord so where's the 8 ways it when he's 18 let's read that second Kings 24 verses from verse 8 Joey akin Joey King was 18 years old when he began to reign in he reign in Jerusalem three months and his mother's name was nahusha the daughter of a Lathan of Jerusalem and he did that which was even in the sight of the Lord according to all that his father had done and at that time the servants of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon came up against Jerusalem the city was besieged Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came against the city and his servants did besiege it hyk in the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon he and his mother and his servants his Prince's officers and the king of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign and he carried out thence all the treasures of the house of the Lord the treasures of the Kings house cut them in pieces so second Kings 24 what did I just read so in one passage second chronicles 36 9 he says since 8 years old and his second King he says he's 18 years old and this one says three months 10 days and this one just says three months so sister all that means going to ignore this Bible verse yeah she got out of that one so skillfully let's find that one so people don't accuse you of bad behavior so we're looking for a Bible passage for a prophecy quote that's going to tell us that there's a separation between 8 and 18 profits on things 438 paragraph four chapters are approaching doom chapter 35 page four thirty eight point two scorning the usual privilege granted him judas king willfully followed a way of his own choosing he violated his word of honor to the babylonian ruler and rebelled this brought him and his kingdom into a very straight place against him were sent bands of the cal DS and bands of the syrians and bands of the Moabites and bands of the children of ammon and he was powerless to prevent the land for being overrun by these Marauders within a few years he closed his disastrous reigning ignant were ejected at heaven and unloved by his people and despised by the rulers of Babylon whose confidence he had betrayed and and all as the result of his fatal mistake in turning from the purpose of God is revealed through his appointed messenger jehovah king also known as Jeconiah and Kanaya the son of Jehoiakim occupied the throne only three months in ten days when he surrendered to the Chaldean armies which because of the rebellion of judas ruler were once more besieging the fated city on this occasion their beacon there's a carried away July akin to Babylon and the king's mother and the Kings wives and his officers and the mighty of the land several thousand in number together with craftsmen and Smith's a thousand with these the king of Babylon took all the treasures of the house of the Lord in the treasures of the King's house king of Judah broken in power the king of Judah broken in power and robbed of its strength both he men and in treasure was nevertheless still permitted to exist as a separate government at its head Nebuchadnezzar place mattaniah a younger son of Josiah changing his name to Zedekiah okay so where's the proof day so therefore if it was when he was eight then Riddick I would have had to start raining from six or seven Aqaba now using logic no but that's what this sphere I choose Katya she's quoting from second Kings 24 15 16 and 13 she calls them back we what she's using and she's going on from second Kings 24 - 24 - that's for the passage you read before with the father and then for Julia Kim she's cooking some second Kings 24:56 913 that's a five so therefore if it is there at age eight Zedekiah started reading when he was taken captive okay but now what you're doing is you're taking a Bible passage that clearly says this and now you let in the line control that Bible verse no I am NOT the spirit of prophecy babe this prophecy did yes because she gives you the order of the Kings she said after him Zedekiah became king okay that's fine I'm happy that you have that but she's using this verse you did this first then what she what she do which is what verse that word yes so here using that verse yeah at this verse yes and applying it here yes and you'll say uh-huh we're gonna apply it here no I years old here no second chronicles said eight and three months and ten days the spirit of prophecy says his reign was three months and ten days which is what second King said second King said he started to rain at age eighteen for three months it is second chronicles that says three months and ten days so Ellen White here completely skips the age of second chronicles 36 and says Joey King reigns three months and ten days that's not unlimited bible passages are second Kings 24 no we went to second Kings 24 it says three months and I'll be lonely bored there at age 18 and that's where she is going from if second Kings doesn't say anything about anything needs that second chronicles her with that that's like if I said it's not me so the Bible verse says he's eight years old at this event and then the Bible says he's 18 at the same event so you would have just want to take those Bible verses and just work him through to get 8 and 18 and separate them yeah so you're letting the line control the Bible to make sure that's all clear for everybody that's what she's doing because we get a lot of flack a lot of trouble for doing that but she's done that straight she's got a Bible verse that says that clearly and she's going to ignore that and spit that Bible verse yeah so he's going to put a full-stop he was eight years old and then he reigns for three months and ten days no eight years old and then he reigned for three months intended that's what I said yeah so if you do that then you haven't got his first anointing do you say that you don't have you having the first anointing now because you made like you made that up here this is just get the Bible I just trashed it up so it picks on a line and she's blaming brother Theodore for that oh you make it I heard you mention his name does this make sense brother Jonathan does this make sense sister Sarah it's just the taste what we want to do is we want to try and understand why Joey akin is tui as opposed to 2a or something right sandy so we want to address that but the problem to get that is that you have to see that Joey akin is anointed twice and when did the first time we were just loose we just said it's twice 8:18 it's all good we think bother going to the Bible verses let you go to the Bible verses this one here he says when he's eight years old what happens some have got the verse up and okay so if you read that verse as is what would that teach you and so the way this line has been constructed is we're saying that didn't happen you seen it either you've got a typo between 8 and 18 because it's all fitting up here or you're going to get that verse and you're gonna cut it so he begins to rain when he's 8 stop jump 10 years and then he's going to be anointed again 10 years later when he's 18 and he's gonna rain for 3 months in 10 days and I'm saying by any stretch of the imagination you're doing a lot of damage to that Bible verse to make it say that does that make sense this to Sarah you've got to Bible verses one says eight and one says 18 how would you deal with that problem do you see there is a problem okay so we all that it's only to show you that there's a problem in those Bible verses so people who are like against the Bible if you're under the internet though this is one of the classic Bible verses that they'll use to say the Bible is unreliable it's got typos in it you don't if he's eight or 18 and what the Bible's teaching and so they'll use this that has to justified that you can't trust the Bible but now we're going in and we're saying actually what this is all teaching us is something totally different that he was anointed twice and here when Joanna came he's gonna get into trouble by Nebuchadnezzar and he thinks he's going to be killed he anoints his son to be king and then what happens that's the thing do we have the words for that do we have some kind of inspired statement that says in the third or fourth year he's going to anoint his son way second Kings 24 verse 1 you're gonna sell her in the days Nebuchadnezzar in his days know beacon desert who's his Jorah came verse 35 king of babylon came up and joy akin became his servant three years and he turned and rebelled against him and the Lord sent against him bands of the Chaldeans and bands of Assyrians and bands of the Moabites and bands of the children of ammon sure so where does it say that just goes insane or the rest of the economy so Joey accepted his father's and the wife killed his son reigned in his stead so that's at age 8 that's the passage that says age no she's 18 yeah I think the ice but in age 18 it says three months okay that he he served Nebuchadnezzar three years you have Daniel Juana's evidence you have Jeremiah's evidence as well Daniel 1 says in his third year of Joey Kim yes we got that never know when talking you should not you know she's not arguing with I know I know so you have the evidence as to why the bad would say he was anointed at age 8 because here if you were to read it that way then he would be a team there in the third year of Israel so you're juggling we're juggling between two different concepts than that is being presented by the Bible the next thing the Bible says is Hakim is 18 she the Oster she says so then if it is he reigns for three years and rebelled against the king of Babylon let me stop you yes let me stop you all you're doing is building logic she's asking do we have a Bible verse or a spirit protocol that says here was jaha him King anointed and there isn't one that's what she asked you said yes then you gave it to me but there isn't brother Tyler what's he using could you don't have Bible verses for proof text this that's the whole point here there is no protects no words no use for a Prosecco no commentary that says what's good at what's happening in this history but that's the point so we just want you to acknowledge that and then it just goes on and see the boat is raining it's raining and what's that proving well taken to Babylon so I'm just using the app okay that's all it says okay so just wanted me you to make the use using logic you're constructing lies to work all of this app Joachim because he reigns for 11 years so that we are willing to work that out as well it's what logic when you say if I so I'm going to be difficult how is it that millions 11 years to be bound to be taken to Babylon is that a rhetorical question yes then answer it for us it's none of us know what you're talking about he's taken in his third year of ring taken up bone to be taken to Babylon who is Iranian are you saying how could hear a breath how can your brain if he's in bad one is already saying yeah and the Arcturus did you get taken to Babylon yes in the Saints of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came up and joy came became his servant three years and he turned and rebelled against him where is this second Kings twenty-four one is that the first year of joy a Kim they says he became servant for three years so that's first second third now you're in the third year okay so in the third year he's gonna repel so we put here my brother Theodore listens to this he's gonna be pulling his hair I think it'd these ignorant people I taught them this and they don't remember back today second Chronicles and you can transfer one 6:36 Jew higher Kim was 25 years old when he began to reign and he reigned 11 years in Jerusalem and he did that which was even in the sight of the Lord against him came up Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and bound him in fetters to carry him to Babylon Nebuchadnezzar also carried so what we're saying about that are you saying he got taken to Babylon he didn't take it get taken to Babylon I'm saying that this one is making reference that right here he's third year to a third year he rebelled he's gonna be punished just three years in 2041 then he turned and rebelled against him because he's been serving up to three years in the third year going to call that 11 years that he reads and Joe hiya Kim Kim is it when his first annoying - then after he dies 11 year later in the 11th year he would be I think we're all happy that you're gonna use logic to say this is 18 and this is 8 we're okay with that so we're not arguing that this is the 11th year isn't it so this would be the first year so how do we work that out how'd you get the third year to the 11th clearly and it's a 10-year span you can teach you that yeah but it's all about its it's going in and using it 18 but he's not because that's what I thought at first that it was right here if you say okay where do you know that tell us your logic why is it to 8:00 p.m. at your body board two or nine teams how does that help you so there's a double in weight that one King one so you have to have a doubling yeah and as I can help and then Ezekiel 1 verse 2 it's in the fifth fourth in 34th month yeah which is July 21st on the laminate length so that's midnight and midnight and the midnight cry is you know overlaps as a point we had two pieces of logic you've got the doubling which is okay it doesn't help you if it's to a or to e we know it's the second angel but we notice a second angel from structure Ezekiel chapter 1 verse 2 this is in the fifth day of the fourth month the fifth day of the fourth month is 21st July which is midnight yep and here you've got April July August and October and this is the close of probation and this is the arrival of the second where's all the weight going to mark the empowerment of the second she's gonna market here agree with that brother Tyler is that correct are we in this line we're separating yeah we got July Midway he's got the cry she said the cries of triumphal entry ain't just came to join it so mosque so what was that question so if it's correct what was my question I didn't say it's correct I didn't say that okay I didn't say that I said is she correct I'm asking there's no application she's telling you that's what it is nearly writings so I'm asking you is she correct and I was asking brother titer she corrected it so empowerment here in July sorry in August yes mr. LaVey what controversy just a simple answer first no no sister to me now yeah so yes sir yeah I think it is correct mr. echinacea this way everything sorry go ask yourself the question and you control by Bible verses or structure what's the question here is Ellen White correct to put to we here in August depends brother Tyler which Bible verse in which early writers were I told me to get the frame of mind I don't know it's somebody suit I would have to find it you found it are we talking to Midway no no that Midway is July this is the midnight cry was like the triumphal entry everybody's screaming out aloud behold the bridegroom cometh that's the application she makes have you got the quote dear sister to me no you don't you put your hand up early writing to show that it's in August that the cries made and that's tui she says impoundments an Angels joy I was thinking if if I record about me away she says the same message was proclaimed all right so could she be blending the logic I can sense it already hi everyone was fully in unity dormouse so even the empowerment will arrive before the midnight cart yet though it progresses throughout the land till it arouses everyone and everyone is in unity with it this the shamila do you hear what they're doing oh you found it you got multitask have you heard what they've all done they've shifted this back to 38.2 if you read that to us maybe not the whole paragraph just a bit that's pertinent you power to the second angels message angels were sent from heaven to arouse the discouraged Saints and prepare them for the great work before them is that good enough proof tech to show it's here in August the midnight cry and hat what's the context is it is it Exeter you ever read that that see the context brother Tyler technically midnight cried July July or August you just take your life thinks you know what I know I'm saying she's that wrong she I think she's looking at it in a different way and uh she's blending I've seen both your hands I think she's probably blending all of them in that cries just the midnight crack okay I made the point ages ago that the problem with the Bible and the problem with the spirit of prophecy is they take you to a place what place they consistently take you to the end okay so sister Tamina brother Richard brother Jonathan sister until the waiting people of God were fully aroused so you see this progressive nature of the arousing people yeah careful what you say are you inferring that she's gone it's City after City here what not hey anybody what was the context of how she's what the context was she says that midnight cry is is it Exeter or is it Boston mr. Terry you could you go Kate that but when she sent me the clothes of the second business so we just made all of this up like this that she doesn't even say it reverberated as I was gonna I was gonna mark the progression and then when she said near the close of the second angels message so the clothes would be the TUI you know what does that mean how'd you know where the closes if it's the second if we say in the second angel is empowered there that would be the close of it so near the close would be before so in the context she keeps bringing up as beholder bra girl coming so I think you have to see the second angel being marked or the near the close of the second you have to see the call behold the bridegroom coming because that's the that's the common theme between our quotes is behold the bridegroom cometh and that is given in July so I'm saying it's the progression of that how that kind of thing the problem I see is if you make it to init in August is where's your 3/8 because October 22nd is the it's the judgment and if you just deal with the group of the mineral rights it's the same God's dealing with men is ever the same okay before we went to the freight I just wanted to make sure where we're going to place it to eat yeah that's why I say you have to shift over the to a - to eat did you like that sort solve this problem at about the three maybe no the other than you have oh you want to put two E and three a like that sister tick yep tell us what's gonna show us yeah please we cloud or shoot okay here we go I saw that the present chest on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the Holy Place was finished and he had passed within the second valve there for Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened in the most holy when the midnight cry was finished at the seventh month 1844 and had not kept the true Sabbath now rest in hope so they had not the light and the test on the savage which we now have it's the doors open that's the main part what's the main part that you will pick up when the midnight prime is finished at the seventh month 1844 so you've got the midnight cry finishing here but what's that proving per second engine roars - as a minimum it's proving the progressiveness that the cry finish is here so the question is when there's the midnight cry begins right July July so what is August what waymark is that is it just a matter of terminology or have you made huge mistakes in our message sister teri we're definitely in big mistake so when we make that when you say we make it a point you mean like you made it way mark point over simplified Brava Richard there's I'm going along realizing I'm simply oversimplified it probably didn't realize when we were saying the full extent of the weight of our words I'm saying so now everyone's saying that the midnight cry begins in July so I'm saying why we always focus in on August then if we'd if midnight if July if July was that day what was and then sister Terry said it was a point and then Robert Richard said we met perhaps over simplify things maybe some of our terminology wasn't correct what we must remember is what came first in our thinking August August came before July so it's not just some kind of crazy thing that we picked and choose what we wanted to do we were directed and guided down this road we didn't make it up we had to go with August because at the one we were given and then we were given July so we've had to keep pace with the Lord it's not so much that we had the two of them and we said we'll pick the wrong one we didn't pick the wrong one so I'm saying maybe even our terminology was never incorrect now we're just having to refine what what the Lord has opened up to us because you have to have our had August as the midnight cry because that's what that's all we ever had and when you do that then you take the early writings quote and then you add on to that the triumphal entry and that simple level it's all correct then refinement because now we're going to go back and say the triumphal entry began somewhere and the numbers began to swell you know we've already introduced that concept about this progressiveness and so once we get to all July now we're having to change our thinking sister shamila then someone thought then sister Tess I think and then there's another quote where you can't find it you couldn't find that one twice midnight cry and triumphal entries two separate things but you can find it in a second yeah make the point and the other one was the one about John we don't accept the message of John won't be benefited by the message of Jesus I think that has something to do with what's that got to do with it it's just the person second angels messages okay so if you've made me confine the triumphal entry one yeah so this is teaching clearly that the seventh month is here not here but that adds to our argument because the midnight cry we can know for certain isn't a point sister I'm sorry a sister unless you had your hand up before is that 22nd sister Sharell brother Tyler sister to mean did you have your hands up as well since today it's the sheriff speak a little bit louder sorry sorry I don't know I can't hear you sorry is that correct okay we'll go we'll do it we'll start with the floor SP we're thinking sorry bike you go ahead to rate that was clear inconclusive there went with it an impelling power that moved this old there is no doubt no questioning on the occasion of Christ triumphal entry and as they joined the throng that were escorting Jesus they caught the inspiration of the hour and helped to swell the shout les he that cometh in the name of the Lord and that lake manner that unbelievers who flocked to the Adventist meetings some from curiosity so in that language it says they join the throng is there a throng in July so the throng is in August so we had a lot of evidence to make it August when we did to IDI by the Tyler sits at Amina and that's kind of what the Lord has done repeatedly as he takes us to the end point and then he shows us what it is and then he brings us to a step in front of it you know it happened with the little probation Sunday law Sunday law at midnight Dr Manette car was midnight and we always see it's it keeps happening and it's even happened with now we have the PBM you know we at midnight which we thought was our last thing and now we see Oh actually there's something before that this is the problem when you approach the scriptures or Ellen White is we don't even understand what it's saying we have a presupposition of what we think that they mean when they make these statements and we we don't go we don't follow the number one rule is we're not supposed to bring ourselves and our own interpretation and opening preconceived ideas into our Bible study and part the problem with that is the way that the Lord leads us step by step we almost get funneled into that way of thinking with these preconceived ideas so I'm saying in agreement with I think a couple of people that this is marking the end point and this is marking the beginning point and we need to focus on the beginning not the end point sister case so how do you just sign the end point what I'm saying the end point would be here yeah this regarding the review and Herald article this is this would be the end of the beginning of the end of the beginning yes this is when the throng begins to join and then join all the way through but we've got to a strong here and we have to get from the singular person to the strong that's what's going to happen between July and August you introduced that fanaticism as a line of thought which is not the only line of thought that's connected to an empowerment because when you get to when you're back here and you go to obviously eleventh 1840 there's no fanaticism in the movement the empowerment is proof that your message is correct and connected with that in August fanaticism leaves I would like to offer a definition of fanaticism and thats ism isn't evil people it isn't bad people it's people who have got different ideas because before April how many messages have this movement got the millerite movement has just got one message is everyone's focus they're all on the same page but after April everything changes when when their whole endpoint just collapses you say one thing and I say another thing that someone else says something else so that's that's I think a good working definition of fanaticism is you're putting your own words your own thoughts your own interpretations of what the Bible is saying because we don't have a prophet we don't have a guide to direct us now because William Miller has also lost focus he's lost track and the Prophet that's been raised up he's just one of many Samuel snow is just one of many voices and so you have got to be able to discern between the voice of God and the voice of man and at first it's not that easy to do so as traction begins to build up the fanaticism begins to wane and the fanaticism is certainly waning here in July but it's not at a movement level by time you get to August you have prophetic or parable markers to show you that it's ended but it's not saying it wasn't already being dealt with beforehand part of the thing that we struggle with is taking the way marks and we have definitive events occurring and then when someone introduces a concept or an idea it seems to shake us in our faith I'm not saying you're shaking your faith but it seems to shake is gonna say that doesn't sound right and then they say this must be error that's being introduced because Ellen White is gonna fix 2e here we have a really simple argument to show that and so now I'm asking is she right to do that and for our understanding you have to say she's not correct to do that because we're gonna move all of this and bring it to July not to August so then you have after you have to have a justification of why you're moving that so my justification is that Alan White's picking a specific point for a specific reason she's making her point but her point isn't my point my point being our movements points not me as an individual we're making two separate points so when I stand up in opposition or a parent opposition to Ellen White and I say even though she says it here I'm not going to listen I'm gonna move it people think this is moving the way Marx and I'm saying it's not moving the way Marx it's another application of what's going on in that history because we want clarification now then why it's not going to give everything to us on a plate if people struggle with this so this chart because people think like this is moving way marks you know at the end here and I'm doing some damage so this this chart has been in the movement for a long time so I would say this qualifies as an established truth if you like so if you check here if you get this point here April the 19th it lines up with the Sunday law and you've got the midnight cry it says August the 15th it lines up with the loud cry now you have to ask yourself the question from the Sunday law to a michael stands up and from April to October this is how many months six months half a year which has implications prophetically because it's the day yeah twelve hours etc we have we understand that logic so this period of time here is an extended period of time it's the time period that you're going to do work because no man can work after this point here so it's the loud cries here as a marker what are we saying before that what we saying happening is happening before that what is the loud cry anyway no this is what is this loud cry this one here just a simple just simple what is the loud cry and says what come help with his Revelation 18 verse 4 isn't it so what we're gonna do is we're gonna have a Sunday law in America and it is halfway between it its Midway so you have to go through half the world before you tell anybody to come out of Babylon so is that a tenable situation America's gone half of Europe's gone half the world has gone and we and we're sitting back waiting restraining ourselves thinking we know what's happening but we have to wait till the loud cry comes do we believe that so is this graphic wrong it's an oversimplification of a complex issue because it wants to make some points you can't give this to people and say here work it out for yourselves it has to be explained you need a living teacher just like you do with these do we know has anybody ever seen notes for this like original notes of how you actually disseminate this information if you asked just ask why I mean we've got thousands of pages of millerite history they teach you about everything and the most important thing is what all of these symbols mean how you suppose work out and what millerite is thinking by doing this we have no information I mean there must be a reason of God we strained them from doing that but you don't have a set of notes don't we have notes if you're a speaker you've got notes another speaker or someone in Congress a congregation is could I borrow your notes and then you have a set of notes and it goes around the whole world and everybody's got the same notes because real preaching the same thing and those notes a downloadable know what that's one of the hallmarks of our message I guess except me that you do notes but I find in the middle right line hey you don't have any notes so there must be a reason for that because God wants us to dig in the search so when it comes to this chart you can't just give it to people in acceptance expecting to work it out because they'll come to wrong conclusions because if I was to follow this I'd say you have to wait three months four months before you can give a cry before it gets empowered so it's the same thing here and these are over simplification of complex issues so if we're going to get the loud cry where would you place the loud cry you have to place it as son-in-law if you do that where's the midnight cry now has to be back here in April if you're going to start shifting things around it's this progressiveness so now we have to not have a childish simple stick diagram understanding of what an e means but it does help to have a simple childish stick understanding of what an e means because it helps us to be able to navigate through these complex issues brother Jonathan knows because the middle rights did charts they have that's like they compressed everything together we have notes about bits and pieces but like I'm not aware of that we have noticed that teachers here you have some notes read that and then you know everything we are talking about so I sees us somehow in the same situation like the mineral rights I'm gonna say notes this this this chart here you know is these charts we're good enough for them because they didn't have a lot of things to deal with if you look at all the dates around that many days when you could revise this to memorize all the dates all the information I think comfortably within a week if I don't I've stopped my head was there's 15 dates here 20 dates is not many we've got a phenomenal amount of information and I think we've got notes mostly for every bit of information that we've got every truth but we've got such a vast amount I mean if you take the Q&A booklets there I think they're about inch and a half thick and that's just Q&A they're just questions and answers just been taken out and that doesn't even begin to address it from a systematic fashion of how our message is it's so complex I think we're having like 9 volume series or something if we try to pull it all your notes in systematically so so I understand the point that you're making anybody had to put the hands up there's reasons for it so the point I want us to see is if you have to II hear you get into real problems 2e has to be moved over and shifted to here because if we're doing this and we've got 911 and we've got close the probation this is 22nd of October and this is 19th of April what's them what's this point here sorry this is Sunday law and what's being poured out at the Sunday law latter rain which means there must have a former rain here and I'm saying the marker between the former rain and latter rain is 2014 2014 is midnight which means that the loud cry or the midnight cry must begin here but it's a lone voice it begins small and it begins to escalate three years ago we already passed midnight we have to remember when we say midnight it's not this midnight yeah remember scale it's not it's not the midnight for adventism adventism that midnight is future that's rafia yes this is midnight for the priests this one that one no midnight wasn't close of probation for the Millerites October was not July July --scent the close of probation October is this is July this is October and this is July July's not the close of probation this one July is it no of popery probably Jonathan thought was just doesn't this shift us in the time period of the day of the Lord like the letter rain already begun and all that stuff do you think sir I'm asking if we if we say that the letter rain starts at Sunday law in a basic level so Sunday law is the day of the Lord and now we say okay actually the letter rain begins because it's period 2014 doesn't these shifters into the time period of the day of the Lord and therefore but basically that's the argument of are we okay with this logic what I didn't add here was that the third year of Jehoiakim is what way mock in our history this is 911 so 911 is here he's 8 years old 10 years on he becomes 18 so there's a test for 10 years from 9/11 so what date is this one this is 2014 does that make sense the close close of probation because this is the empowerment of the second angel Joey akin has been 90 for the second time it's the empowerment and it was a 10-year test not literally 10 years it's 10 symbolizing a test if you want to go literal what year did we did all the Jeff go to 2004 and we had 2012 here by the way but it was 2004 to 2014 10 years sister listen rain 11 years does not mean that you necessarily died yeah so however way we're gonna look at that it looks like Joha akin was anointed at the beginning not in the third year so I don't know if it's resolved that or we're resolved that I'm just leaving that open but Joe wake in turn Joe Joe wake him he's 911 I know the dates don't add up but it was this point that I wanted to pick up why you get to e so we've done it from a doubling perspective we've done it from this perspective of midnight here and from the number 10 okay yeah okay we were up there I will leave that so Robert Jonathan's question is what so here you are Sunday law close of probation 911 midnight midnight cry second Advent we need to paste the latter rain who doesn't the big picture here this close of probation who's it for I want to put a little suffix there we'll go with the old thinking not with the new thinking okay if we understand what I just said and if what he just said old a new thinking success yeah so the old thinking needs you pick the end point not the beginning point so we've got the world here guys breaking for the world so your question is what my question is if we say basically in 2014 the loud cry began because it starts small and gets bigger this is the the letter rain doesn't this shift us already into the time period then we understand his question from Luke your understudies question Brava Richard okay so where's the day of the Lord on this scale sister shamila so I'll put a marker here and I'm saying this is the day of the Lord agree with that Robert Jonathan okay so now tell me where the close of probation is for the church SDA church is one man one person so now you've got close of probation for the SD ace yes anyone else so you've got that and he's that answering your question or addressing it or reinforcing the point that you're trying to make so this latter rain here the fda's have already closed their probation you agree with that okay so close of probation is defined as what so what happens after the probationary time ends what do you then switch into after probation judgment type so what's the terminology we're using for judgment time now sorry binding-off are you happy with that yeah so it is to close of probation then you're going to say from this point onwards is the binding off yeah so binding off another term for binding off is harvest so I said that harvest you okay with that so what has to precede harvest which one okay loitering here and you've got the harvest beginning before the latter rain said how you do how you can resolve that if you we shifted the close of probation from ten year twelve one to the Sunday and also therefore we have to shift indebted rain as well because we shifted the close of probation can be what you only cadet we have to shift the letter rain before the Sunday law because forever and ISM they need to let it rain as well okay so we're gonna put that right here okay so I'll take this out and I'll just call it one point midnight cry and you want to put that arraign here okay so you've got that to rain before close of probation when we came down here you've got latter aim before close of probation and this is the day of the Lord so the dad's Lord is here so I've kept the models I still I've kept them on the correct because you want to be you you're saying you implied or inferred that I brought there the Lord back to here and you did that based upon this terminology latter rain so here's the latter rain and the dead load begins which is the logic that you used but the day of the Lord is marking the beginning of harvest and harvest has to be preceded by that rain not before so the model that you're what you've done is you have conflated two different histories together depends on what they've adventism here this is the first proof this is the first week of the world the firstfruits of the firstfruits if you want to do that then I'm saying close of probation the same model close the probation the latter a precedes it here's a close of probation the Lateran precedes it here's the first fruit harvest there's the Lord here same thing harvest but it's here not back here look what you look what you've got close of probation preceded by a latter rain close a probation preceded by a latter rain this model is not bringing the day of the Lord's the dead Lord forward is keeping it intact in its proper place here is when you put the latter rain in a different place that you get problems what your problem is which I haven't explained Dave the Lord has to come after the latter rain because the day of the Lord is harvest time harvest has to come off the latter rain is everybody following along with this everybody lost people okay so let me ask you a couple of questions now then this latter rain let's get this let's stop doing it more accurately this is a fixed point the day of the Lord we're okay with that this latter rain who's it for when's the world going to be harvested when you go when you go to either Melbourne and the grab hold of them and cut them down Daniel 11 verse 41 wait Daniel 11 verse 41 here what you doing in verse 41 Babylon so you're going to the field field of Babylon and what are you doing you're cutting people down on you harvesting them you agree with that so this is so this period here is the harvest of war so this is the harvest of the world so if it's the harvest of the world how can that be the latter rain for the world that we've got become comfortable then this point in periods I think almost every single time was a kindergarten way of looking at the problem when we were a church when we were a child we stink like childlike points and periods and we can do that these are all periods of time they're not points we now know the beginning and the end point of a period Barrentine you can collapse because we breathing we collapse tough is to either simplify or because we don't know so we are collapsed that because I want to make a childish application not an adult application so in the adult conversation we can't make that you can't do this period and point stuff so either the harvest time is not corrected located or the lettering because I did that last 2-2 solutions there's a third one it's a third answer rubber Tyler that's what he just said there's a third answer they're both correct but then we've got our - who's this for yes so you've got the latter rain for seeds harvest yes so who's been harvested here right so this latter rain isn't for the world it's for the hundred forty four thousand has to be how did you get that probationary so you get that from where do I get what problem basically that's a closed you tell me where it closes then there'll be actually a different question whose probation is closing here because it can't be the world yeah that is Daniel 12:1 you're gonna say this you're gonna say this is Co P alpha and this is Co P Omega for the world so you're gonna do that so you still got so you're still stuck with who the latter rain his for because the latter rain can't be for the world because the light rain has to precede the harvest if we're going to run it concurrently then we're going to say the literal doesn't typifies the spiritual pastime you've got you've got stick to the rules Hosea 10:12 all the agricultural rules if we don't stick to those rules we go into we're going to fanaticism I'm trying to stick to the rules you you have to have a rain before harvest so the rain for the world has to be here has to be preceding this this history here so this rain that we've got here marked on all of these charts what must that rain be for it has to be for another group that are coming and the re group that are going to be alive here is the 144,000 so this rain must be for this group because their probation closes here and now they're sealed their 144,000 so if you want to say oh that means their probation still is open there if you want to argue at that level you can but the models much more sophisticated than that really if you want to take it's a childish I don't mean your childish a basic level then you'd have to argue that the probation is still open but we know otherwise because of the hip because the priests and levites and everything we know that so then if that's what that's what you're struggling over but but the way this is constructed probation closes here he says close of probation and that close the probation that's been marked here for sure it's the end of the worlds one but it's also marking the close relation for this group of people because this rain cannot have been for the world because they have been harvested now who's been harvested here it's 144,000 this is the harvest here for the one four four look how they how is the hundred reports 1000 at the end I tell that did you stop I'm not sure what you mean everyone's dead in this history everyone dies don't they revelation 20 verse 4 look at beheaded yeah but not that the hundred or forty one thousand they don't taste there no and I'm asking if is it comprised of the priests Levites and everything I said no because they're virgins Netherlands are not virgins they defiled themselves I've just gone into 144,000 from Adventist the Adventist not the world so I had to hand up them we have to close it so much I'm sorry I'm just gonna say the distinction there cuz you have the church triumphant running through in the hundred forty four thousand though they are part of the church triumphant all of the church town friend are not 144,000 so that last word is for that particular part of the church right over so that's why it's a that arranged for them to make it do I'm not trying to define what class or people they're made up from I'm just saying it at the structural level this is their harvest time and they need to be prepared this history here will prepare them for this event without this they could never have done it this would be the former rain this is correct other why if you read her writings carefully she'll tell you you can't be waiting for the latter rain to straighten out your character he has to be done here before you can receive the latter rain I'm not you I'm chained generally everybody I wasn't I wasn't looking at you weights at the end where do you want it to be we were worth of 144,000 gonna be harvested must be at the end been able to you know do the work that they've been called to do and their probation has individually clothes in each group so I just sister Tina guess last question yes they go they go through an experience but the probation code is here then then there's lots of things to do in a harvest you should go to a field cut them down bundle them together they put them into a barn so there's these three things there so putting it yeah but they need to be put into bundles before that and then they need to be cut out from the world so hopefully that address is partly your question but maybe it's open more questions than you had originally all I want to say is what I'm teaching here or what we discussed here isn't new it's in the public domain it's been around for a long time it's just that in a prophecy school you don't often or you watch your video don't often get the opportunity to understand what's going on you miss it and what and the reason why we're blind time it's taking so long is because I'm I'm trying to for us to understand things that have already been spoken of and if one person here is and hasn't seen that then I'm assuming the rest of us haven't they haven't understood the implications of what's going on for instance who this latter rain is going to be targeted at so yes yes dad Lloyd's connect Lisa dad the Lord's vengeance the dead Lord's executed judgment so for the priests it's midnight he's gonna execute judgment on the priest and before he can execute them they have to be prepared and ready for that which is the latter ray so if I were to I'm gonna take that out if I hit a latter rain no let me do it this way I'm gonna put latter rain here who's latter rain would that be just throw out the altar well so weak so you can already see the pattern now so you have latter rain 4x and co p 4x it's a consistent pattern and this is the day of the Lord or the harvest and preceding the latter rain you have the form of rain if you can conceptualize that structure you can apply it to four different groups priest Levite the world and 144,000 that this one here it certainly is correct the latter rain for the hundred forty four thousand clothes our probation for one hundred forty four thousand harvest for the hundred forty four thousand yep binding off four X X X X X it's all four eggs the patterns are saying four four groups algebra let's pray Heavenly Father we want to thank you for your goodness and mercy we want to ask and pray that you would be with us bless us and guide us direct us Lord to re-examine the concepts and the ideas that you have wanted to show us in a clearer and more concise fashion through the years and months that we have been studying these reform lines as we come to the end of our probationary time Lord we know it's your desire that all of us come into unity on this issue that we begin to see the symmetry in the beauty of these reform lines be with us invest us to this end we ask and pray in the name of Jesus amen