(11-09-17) - Cease Ye from Man - (gyzLAYuI5-k)

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Publish Date: 11/9/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (11-09-17) - Cease Ye from Man-gyzLAYuI5-k
YouTube ID: gyzLAYuI5-k

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I mean not yesterday but Tuesday I think it was we were reading from the review and Herald February the 18th 1890 review and Herald February the 18th 1890 we started at the beginning of the article the articles called how to meet a controversy point of doctrine so I thought it was quite pertinent to not only the times in which were living but the subject matter the we're discussing and I can't remember what paragraph we got to but we didn't get to quite where I wanted to be only five I thought we got a bit further than five so okay that's where I'm I thought we were out so I want to skip down a couple paragraphs and just to finish this off before we move on so we're in review and Herald February eighteenth 1890 I'm gonna pick up from paragraph 14 there are so many things in this article that are relevant to our discussion we'll just take too long if we read everything paragraph 14 begins no one no one is able to explain the Scriptures without the aid of the Holy Spirit but when you take up the Word of God with a humble teachable heart the angels of God will be by your side to impress you with evidences of the truth when the Spirit of God rests upon you there will be no feeling of envy or jealousy in examining another's position there will be no spirit of accusation and criticism such as Satan inspired in the hearts of the Jewish leaders against Christ so just when if this pick up that one point before we move on there's this argument that's happening between the Jewish leaders and Christ now when those Christ can represent a number of different things but who would we say Christ represents in that reform line she's come up with at least two answers I would think a reformed line of Christ who does Christ represent 124,000 us yeah so who does John represent John the Baptist okay buzz okay maybe maybe you're out your art swing too simplistically wanted a bit of the structure really first and second John's the one that prepares the way for the messenger of the Covenant becomes Malachi chapter 3 so at the time of the end we're at the empowerment and they weren't the close of probation we're going to make the close of probation the cross for this line so the time at the end what do we have the arrival of the first angels message this is John the Baptist and this is the baptism in 27 and we demonstrated hopefully to run satisfaction that 8027 Jesus does walk he's anointed he begins his ministry yeah so this is second so Jesus represents the second angel for sure we're okay with that yeah that's straightforward hold it else does Jesus represent if now we're going to say we'll go to the wheat the tares so this is the field and this is the servants what's the job function of wheat in that parable Matthew 13:24 2:30 what's their role in life 3 to produce fruit just to sit back and open them out and be fed yeah what's the job function of the servants to attend the harvest anyone else they have a work to do the servants don't reap the reapers reap in parable but yeah so they have a work to do other week doing any work they're growing but are they doing any work can they of themselves grow no so they can't do any work in and of themselves or they can do is just sit back and to be fed and to receive something if we're not sure about that we would go two steps to Christ Chapter eight growing up in Christ think is the second paragraph as a mate and the way makes this really clear she uses this not literally Matthew 13 but she uses this analogy that a plant cannot grow in its own strength it has daily weight Grose's by receiving something so I'm going to put here this wheat it's the wheat and it says it's the same they're having an experience of growth so we've identified this as what what angel this is the second angel and this is the what the third angel it's very comfortable with that so I'm sure we've done it this in class we went back to various stories or histories and we saw that there's this threefold group one two three one two three but they're in two groups I think we've come up with four or five different examples of that yeah so we're looking at Christ so what's the what's the dynamic here for Christ's reform line how do we structure that in this way who's the wait who's the taste who's the servant mr. Serra okay so the framework is the reformed line of Christ we just did John the Baptist in Christ John was the first Christ was the second so Christ it's the second angels message and here we've got the wheat that is the servants Matthew 13 I'm saying these people in the field I'm going to step to Christ chapter 8 growing up in Christ they just have an experience of growth they're growing that cannot be doing any work you cannot by your own efforts add to your stature but these servants are required to do a work yeah in fact they were derelict in their duty when they went to sleep and allow the taste to even be placed in the field so we've already this find that the second angel which is righteousness and experience of righteous that's a righteousness that you must have is here and this is the third angel the primary characteristics of the third angel is he has a work to do so how would we structure the reform line of Christ here who would we drop down into these three columns that make sense sister Sarah it's a it's a revision we've already done this right okay so Christ's disciples how many of them are they 11 yeah so can we see the structure 11 and 1 and this is Christ so Christ is the third angel we can see that so just while we're here just a short diversion why is Christ the filling the role of the third angel and the second angel so let's go with the second angel wherever you wanted to say okay so crises are examp to new things he has multiple roles second enter what's his role as the second what is that what is the second angel all about so he's the second angel toward the people and he's a third angel toward the leadership so we'll go with a second on what does it mean he's the second angel toward the people so he's the second angel because he's going to be an example to them is that what you mean yeah anyone else do we all agree with that he's going to experience or live the life of the second angel he's gonna be a week here he's gonna show you how it's done yeah so he's having this experience here it's not doing a work he's having an experience anything else what else and calling people out into something different according people out and along those lines you'd be calling them out to a different experience so second angels messages what sorry come on Babylon is fallen so one of the works that he has to do is identified that this church not Babylon this church is falling so there's this duality this two roles of the second but we're focusing on the work and the servant so in this passage here when she says that Satan inspired the hearts of the Jewish leaders against Christ when they're against Christ what primarily swath angel are they primarily against the second or the third any other thoughts I would suggest it's the third because our church was since 1844 since our inception as always is always rejected the third angels message in various guises so in 1888 the third angels message is going to be empowered and they're going to reject that now in our generations third angels message doing the work they're going to reject that they don't even know how to share or teach the third angels message most people don't even know what the third angels message is and this one is encompasses they think is this narrow little think about Sunday law but it covers a wide territory so other way it tells you that third angels messages were in Verity yeah justification for a page writers by faith so it covers a lot of things so this is the rejection that the church is doing so when they're rejecting Jesus here they're rejecting the third angels message so when it comes to our generation and you see what's happening not even in the church now even in our message even in our movement people are taking the same role the rejection of Christ because Christ is home is the servant his this person who's going to bring judgment and people do not want to accept that so there's nothing new as Christ said to Nicodemus so I say to you he must be born again except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God you must have the divine mold before you can discern the sacred claims of the truth unless the teacher is a learner in the school of Christ he is not fit to teach others so he's not fitted to teach others again normally we'd want to spend a lot of time breaking that down because just even the surface read that I think you can see this is what's happening just want to pick up one point as Christ said to Nicodemus so I say to you whoever Jesus whoever other what he's talking about she's saying the same thing so there are many Nicodemus is in in our movement let's go to another diversion if you don't mind if you do were still doing it there's a huge argument about the leadership is Nicodemus a leader in the church as Christ said to Nicodemus this story here John chapter 3 he's here leader in the church yeah he's one of the leaders so there's a lot of discussion about the leadership and how what we do with him what do we do with the leaders so I'll just do it this way 79 89 911 and I'll do midnight midnight cry and what I want to show here I'm just gonna do it in a way you may not be comfortable with is this is Levites and I'll do it this way this is priests and this is Nicodemus and Nicodemus is a leader so I'm not looking at Nicodemus as an individual looking at the leadership so maybe in your own mind maybe in your own discussions I've noticed we run round in circles thinking what do we do with the leadership how do we deal with them you know we say God's dealing with men is ever the same we understand the priests and we had the Levites have not done overlap here we know this I'm kind of over that that goes on with the priests Levites and their names so would it how do we cope with the leaders what do we do with these leaders maybe I need to ask my question in a different way close the probation for the priests is here so that's why I tag the Levites here and though there's an overlap so we've got the close of probation here for the priests I'm going to have to do this otherwise it'll look really strange so let me do it this way I'm going to put the Levites somewhere here without defining what it is and I'm going to do it that way to make it a little bit more accurate so this is the close of probation for the Levites and we'll do it again this is just a bit generic point and I've got Sunday law and this is the close of probation for the 11th hour workers is there anybody who's struggling with that three closer probation for the priests Levites and Netherlands what about those leaders what do we do with them yeah I've get up you know I've been a bit in debt indefinite here but because I because I don't want to go down that route it was that wasn't a purpose but they start somewhere here like we started and they have the close of probation so it's a closed a probation that a mark in here for these ones I've been specific about 911 so what do we do with these leaders sister Cathy where would you will you finish dealing with them how do you do rubba Richard okay so here they die I put out four leaders so the leaders die okay so that's why mark that's why I marked it here so you've got pass for the leaders pass live he passed by two they pass by here and they die here so is Nicodemus already dead when he's having this conversation are we not sure because no one sane but why do you think so elder Jeff why is he dead okay so just from the wording he's dead but where is this conversation taking place so we're here aren't we he's already been baptized so you you just said he's dead so we know he's a dead person he says he in the world you need to be born again so we know we're here so he's dead brother Larry and brother Jonathan he's cleanse the temple but he hasn't done the second temple cleansing yet yeah and that's when he says your house is left unto you desolate yes so he's still in some regard reaching up to them it seems to me not reaching out but when they come to him even though I guess it's individually not corporately though are you asking your own question I'm sure I'm working through it and can use what you often do we take those into consideration the temple cleansings know if you want to I don't know where you'll go with that what your thoughts are because there's something that they're still open to Nicodemus there's something open to Nicodemus as an individual but not as a leadership I guess is what we're saying here it's okay I'm just trying to work through it okay I always say they die at that point the question is after that so I was trying to work through it in my mind brother Jonathan sister Tex so this sounds like the leadership can be part of the levites yeah sister Tex tell me how you see it I'll say firstly I'll be working with a people individuals or a system individual system you said the second day so if you're a leader where would you place the codes of probation for a leader because this topic comes up over and over again 97 I heard a car like a chorus of 911 now say no clothes of probation for the leaders was 1989 so for us to give these different answers we're not sure about even the question that is being posed is it a system or is it individuals yeah that's my question you can't ask me my own question that's my question to you how do we conceptualize what this reform looks like when we're dealing with leaders you would say what so Nicodemus is probation closes that at the birth of Jesus or birthda John the Baptist so this conversation that he's having with him here is waste of time you agree that's what you've just said okay is that tenable it but Jesus is saying here you need to be born again is Nicodemus gonna be born again so how could it cause his probation here okay so it's not tenable yeah way back when you started this line you asked the question and you didn't get much of an answer and I think I answered the minority you asked his Nicodemus a leader and I said no and I'm gonna stand on that he's the leadership has already been set aside when he's coming after the baptism he's coming as an individual but you can correct me if I'm wrong you've thought this through already so my understanding is as as a as leadership there passed by but as individuals they're not passed by okay so that's what he's the test right that's right that's why I was that's my understanding I'm arguing there's a different leadership at this point in history this isn't the leadership of the Adventist churches to focus anywhere it's the leadership of this movement yeah if you're gonna ask him Nicodemus is not part of the leadership of this movement so when we talk about the close of probation for the leadership to these leaders I'm just putting the Adiemus as an individual but as leaders where we'll remark that close of probation for them so let me ask a different question when we say that the codes of probation for the priests we mark that at midnight yeah so when we say the close of probation for priests what does the what do we mean when we say priests what do you actually mean when we use that word priests are we talking about the arc are we talking about the builders when we say the close of probation for the priest is here is it the individuals the guests or is it the bride that's what I want that's my question so we need to you I'm suggesting minutiae we need to get that clear before we can approach the issue of the leaders they need to those two different symbols will join together but if we make them the same thing we have a lot of problems because if we make them the same thing then what we're saying is either three years ago or imminently our probation has closed or he's about to close and we're in serious trouble or we're saying God has shown us a different model to say that the bride and the guests are going to be addressed and dealt with in the different way so yes they're the same thing we understand that but the parable teaches very specifically it's not one it's over and over again that there's the separation between the two and what I've tried to show in these classes is if you don't have the separation of the two our message doesn't make any sense because all of us when I say all when the Bible says the word or it doesn't mean a hundred percent so when I'm saying oh I don't mean a hundred percent because there are people who have already got their lives in order but for the rest of us we were told that we're supposed to get our characters our lives sorted out in what dispensation in the dispensation of the former rain and now we're in the latter rain and then the latter rain it's too late to get your life in order and many of us haven't got our lives in order so how can we be breaking all of those rules and I'm suggesting it's only through an understanding of separating the bride and the guests that we can reconcile this difference it's not just jumping through hoops and trying to make it fit it really is a proper biblical explanation of what's going on and it has to have been this done this way even if we can't work out all the intricacies of its yeah so that that's why I'm saying yes we are but we have to break down the difference so that's why I'm trying to explore now because we've done this separation will put the workers and the the building separate so when we say the close of probation for the priests what are we saying at midnight happens is it just Ark the movement or is it the individuals I need you to answer in my framework not yours my framework is the arc or the carpenters so you're saying the close of probation at midnight is is talking about the structure the arc the building yes okay so we've got different answers so that means we're in the studies that we've been doing we'll be thinking about this differently so let me I wanted to keep some of this and we'll take it over here so here we have the arc and here's the close of probation the door shut are you okay with that brother Nathan yes and to cut back how many days seven days so at seven days before this what was happening the animals were getting on the animals going to be getting on an ark that's not ready no so the ark is ready here so I'm saying the ark COP now let me do it the other way closer probation for the ark is here so the preparations closed here and now we're still doing a work and when Noah gets into the ark and that doors shut I know we could argue that he's he was already before but now he's shutting so for Noah it's here at the shut door so when we come back to here we say the priests there close the probation is at midnight I'm suggesting that this is people this is us because the movement the church triumphant it's the the building's already finished isn't it the building was already finished when before the third decree that says closed the probation for the Ark at this yeah Atlas waymark and they'll run out of room so I've put the close race in here so if we come back to this one as a minimum I'm saying by the time you get to this way mark here PBM midnight cry living testimony the living temple is manifested the Ark is already built so it's before that third angels gonna be doing its work so when we say codes raised at midnight for the priests we're talking about individuals are we okay with that and when we do the Levites and the levant our workers we have a similar thing but I'm looking I'm going to leave them for the moment because there's some differences between them and us so if we're saying the close of probation and we're defining that as individuals when we come to the leaders what do we mean by that when we say the close of probation for the leaders we say close of probation what answer will regifter that turn to this year oh you said something four degrees so what way mock were you going to put for them so you're going to say close of probation individuals no I'm saying when I said crease that's people individual people that's the Carpenters real people so what about the leaders at the point that the arc is built so you're saying all the leaders you're gonna say it PBM for now do we agree with that bother tidy doesn't what you saying brother Tyler individuals it was a night for the individuals it's 89 so we're gonna do with Nicodemus then his probations already closed back here when John was born doing that simply there passed by at that point and you have John the Baptist talking in these people and saying I'm not even gonna give you this message because you're already you know you're the generation of vipers so I'm not giving you this message I'm gonna give it to these people and that's that's at 89 that he's gonna be giving that message okay well doesn't matter it's at the formalization okay he's a ketone okay so what does that mean we're saying the leaders can't be baptized yeah well that's right so they're not gonna be saved okay so you're saying they're lost as individuals Jonathan but this is 20 years ago 25 years ago and when we are talking about individuals how many new pastors rose up since that time they have no idea about that message and to talk about their salvation now that's I have a problem with that because they dare clueless if we will talk about individuals Judas is record to show his long patience with him working with Nicodemus to me it proves that whether they have been passed by or not he still wants us to attempt to work with them okay how about this when did the leaders lose their job I will look over the acts 1989 yeah when did they become demon-possessed when did they become doing for this anyone else 89 because so here's King Saud and he's not feeling well and they say let's bring a person who can sue you with a message which is David and he plays the instrument and the spirit the evil spirit leaves saw so he's demon-possessed here at 89 so David is here and David has already taken when his baby take Saul's job first anointing time at the end is that he's just saying yeah anybody disagree with that yeah so Swami's the king and David is going to take over that job I'm asking when does that happen when does David become the king so night 11 or so um my question upset everybody sort of first degree by mostly the same thing when he take over Saul's job so I guess it would depend who you're asking if you're asking God God when does David take over from saw it'd be here to ask the people when there's Davey take over from saw it be here because the people do it here and God does it here so we'll go with God's perspective of things so from this point here who's the leadership of the church David David yeah so David threw me there so Dave is the leadership of the church so when we talk about this concept of leaders we tend to as soon as you start saying that you tend to put them into this corporate box and this corporate box is made up of individual people and if you're not careful you end up come into a slippery place by trying to work out when we're this General Conference president put a name to him when was his probation closes the past president of future because they're all bad people the you know they're doing these meetings making them spiritual formation surely they must be lost to had their probation closed we come up with thoughts and ideas like that but that's not what that's not what the reformed lines teach because there is no such thing as a leader is there really in God's eyes because who are the leaders David is from here the problem with David being a leader is that he's not qualified from a human level to take the reins so God needs to allow a progressive development to happen until you get to 9/11 where David is what in his experience here's what he's matured is he fully fit to take over the reins its 911 the people recognized that people anoint him to be king I wanted to think about the implications of that because many people in the mood in our message have got this idea that by slow evolutionary steps from 911 onward we're getting better and better and then finally we're going to take over here at midnight it's it's it's something that's been in our message our movement for a long while and people have just been silent about it so I'm trying to I'm only saying what people think is the Davies fit for purpose here the reformed line teaches us that but many people I know maybe even in the class I've got this idea that we're not fit for purpose the reformed light teaches that so intellectually I don't know how you can disagree so he stick for purpose here but he was a leader back here so this whole idea about leaders that Nicodemus is a leader is a fourth question which ends up result in the fourth answer and you start looking for closer probations for people that you can't look for because they don't exist so if you're going to say where's the close of probation for an individual leader you can't tell you you can't answer that question because the leaders are symbolized by Nicodemus don't even exist yeah God sending messengers down to this church and from his perspective they're not even leaders anymore so someone said that Nicodemus was a Levite how do we know he's a Levite yeah depending how you're gonna frame your line he could be either he's already brought into his what what lit Nika Dimas is is this remember the other day I said come out of Babylon and people are saying does that mean you telling this movement to stop going to a conference Church when we had that discussion and hopefully I'm you know settle that issue that's not what we're teaching that's not what I'm teaching because we're already outside of the system so if Nicodemus let me ask you this question is Nicodemus in Babylon or out of Babylon from 9/11 onwards out in what's he thinking after his discussion with Jesus what is the begin to do sorry what does he begin to do doesn't he begin to search and find out and then what he's do in the background he starts defending Jesus against the onslaught of the system so is he having this because Babylon is here we've defined Babylon as a sins of the fathers so Caiaphas is saying this person Jesus we can prove doctrinally that he's not the real thing isn't that Caiaphas his argument and what's Nicodemus saying know through the Scriptures we can prove what he is but Nicodemus isn't some scared person Nicodemus he's on a mission he's doing what Ezekiel chapters 2 & 3 tells us to do he's going to the conference structure I go to church every week trying to pull these people out so on that level I'm suggesting that Nicodemus is not a Levi he's a priest now you could develop another argument to show that he's a Levi but can you see Nicodemus from 27 to 31 see him because he's in he's in hiding so he has many of the characteristics of the priests so what I'm suggesting is when we talk about the leaders and what happens to them they're not leaders that the term leadership we should be scrubbing and raising for my mind which is the first premise that only Jeff said they're not leaders but I took us down that road because I know many of us think that way and we're wondering what happened and the reason we were wondering what about the leaders I'm saying is this because we don't care about leaders and they stir a personal friend of yours we care about ourselves and to miss or to incorrectly identify what the church leadership is that conference structure to me is indicating we don't understand who we are by even giving them the title of leaders like what about the church leadership even given that that title tomatoes meat for me says that we don't even believe that we're leaders and we don't believe we're leaders yet we'll say we're going to be leaders we're shoving the problem into the future but poor but David is already a leader here already fit for purpose someone had to hand up priests but where's the difference between the disciples and Nicodemus because a priest a space no different but the disciples they were opening follow following Christ he's a symbol of the priest and he just showed me different symbology it's a purpose you know Sinclair more than one meaning he's the same person what would the disciples issue they said these people are doing all of these things and they're not in our little Qiqi group they don't fit the model that we think they should fit so what should we do with them should call them out and saying they're not part of the movement and what does Jesus say right he's saying that they are a part of the movement because if they are not working with him then they're scattering and they were gathering the only reason you've got three years he's quickest of nicodemus if you think about who's doing the greatest work I would suggest it was Nicodemus you didn't have three years he wouldn't have stretched out the trees if he wasn't there and Joseph eritrea brother Tyler if this is way to our topic then just as well but there's another line of thought what we've talked about someone like Zechariah who has it's someone who should know but he doesn't when he sees the sanctuary and the angel kinda rebukes him softly about it and what could be misrepresented that kind of person because if you're saying could he also represent that kind of person because if we're saying there's no such thing as leaders but we know Nicodemus is a leader so he can't be representing the leadership as we normally say in the conference so he has to be representing the priests would he represent a leader or priest who should know these things she should know that he needs to be born again but he doesn't or that he was I guess it depends where you place that Cariah do you play exactly well just plays where you place John chapter three do you place it here at 9/11 or down the road and where would you place a Cariah here at 9/11 or down the road because it seems to me the disciples they're pretty clueless about what's going on the disciples don't fully understand what's going on but Nicodemus seems to Nicodemus seems to be fully aware of what's happening I'm so I'm Zachariah is a corporate issue you know the whole movement is in that condition but at the same time the whole movement because Nicodemus isn't an individual one person is these represents the movement so I say I'd say both but I think the symbol in nicodemus isn't the symbol of Zachariah because I think Nicodemus is fully clued up about what's going on Nicodemus means victorious among the people there even his name with the victorious people who are bound together in a common common but that's common movement a common theme next paragraph we should come into a position where every difference will be melted away if I think I have light I shall do my duty in presenting it suppose I consulted others concerning the message the Lord would have me give to the people the door might be closed so that the light might not reach the ones to whom God has sent it when Jesus rode into Jerusalem the whole multitude of disciples began to rejoice and praise God with the loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen saying blessed be the king that cometh in the name of the Lord peace in heaven and glory in the highest some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto Him master rebuked I disciples and he answered and said unto them I tell you if these should hold their peace the stones would immediately cry out what is she saying here in this paragraph I read the first part that the example that she's given I think we're all clear on we should come into a position where every difference will be melted away if I think I have light I shall do my duty and presenting it suppose I consulting to others concerning the message the Lord would have me give to the people the door might be closed so that the light might not reach the ones to whom God had sent it and then about you but the first sentence sounds contradictory to the second sentence we should all come into a position where every difference is noted away how would we do that sorry we'll come together and brew bring our ideas together and you know hammer it all out that's how I think normally we would get we would do that if you've got this new light you need to go to the church or the movement people have experience to say I've got this idea what do you think about it then we also have a discussion and then we'll say yeah we all agree so let's move on we should come into a position where every difference will be melted away the next sentence if I think I have light I shall do my duty and presenting it what would you tag onto the end of that sentence what's what she's saying if I think I have like I should do my duty in presenting it what's the pregnant thought this at the end of that sentence or am i dismiss reading me if I think I have lie I should do my duty in presenting it and I'm not going to ask anybody else's opinion say tell them what the speaking but even if it was a hymn it doesn't matter it's a person whoever the person is maybe there's not if I think I have lie I should do my duty in presenting it and to me the pregnant thought is and I'm not going to ask anybody so let the next sentence says suppose I consulted others concerning the message the Lord would have me to give to the people the door might be closed so that the light might not reach the ones to whom God had sent it so I've got this super truth here it is the higher lower powers all of this the super truth and I think I've got like this is a parable this is not real don't people misrepresent what I'm saying I need to do my duty and presenting this but if I wait to have a meeting with the leaders they're going to say we don't agree with this we don't agree with what you're saying so don't speak in so I'm saying I don't care what you think because you're restricting the message that the Lord wants to give his people so I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to preach it anyway that's what she's saying do we agree that's what she's saying some people don't agree that's what she's saying if she's not saying that what is she saying if the people who said no Bob White has a reason for it to be to be shared you don't share it because you go to other people and they give it your thought process where they tell you not to then that she seems as if those people are gonna miss out on here and that light it's important but don't say I think the first sentence is important it says we should come into a position with every difference will be melted away I think that's that's the first step in order to go out and preach the message because if you don't think you have lied it's it's in agreement with it must be an agreement with the first sentence they are united so how is every difference to be melted away okay so we're starting together ldj to the group and they can melt it into a box the principle is is if you have new light to present it to those of experience and see if it's valid that's the first sentence but I'm saying she's saying it's different for me because I'm the prophetess and when the Lord gives me light I'm going to present it no matter what everyone else but I'm sure that's not where you're going and I could be wrong on that okay so that's where we're going did I say now that's where we go anyone else for the Tyler she when she says if I does she mean if I as if I be anyone or is she saying if I be the Prophet and your alterus I don't know I I didn't think about it like brother Jeff was saying I can see how you could read that into there but I'm not I'm not sure okay say he could be wrong I don't know you just buy the patent you don't know you're saying it could be wrong okay say could be right could be wrong Rama Richard remember Jonathan I think we're not I think if we look at this line upon line then there's the messenger of the Covenant have to ask permission there's a lies on reform lines the person is bringing the message does he have to ask permission from anybody to bring a Reformation he's totally raised up as a rebuke to everything else he speaks the message that he's received from God okay so just so that if I decide you correctly you're slipped in the word leaders again usually not like this context of leaders there's no what else they do oh the leaders when you said that I just met people that you may be the I wasn't trying to say it in that concert I'm just saying when God gives the person a message yeah so God give me a messy I don't need to consult without the jet no that's her in the mr. Pibb who's the latest I was saying I wasn't trying to use the word oh okay so oh sorry I don't miss that you say the messenger of the Covenant yeah at the time of the end when he brings a message or any of the reforms perform lives like Elijah Moses he doesn't have to ask permission the messenger the Covenant doesn't have to hurt okay does everyone understand what he just said who's the messenger of the Covenant that's what yeah not John the Baptist so now this person is Christ who's doing this work Christ doesn't need to ask too impatient of anybody Rick he'll be that it's making sure that we're all on the same page of what he stayed because now he's saying whoever this person is Ellen White is Christ yeah okay so she's going to give you that she's going to give you the framework to understand this who they who you're going to consult with see suppose I should consult others so the question is who had the others that she's not going to consult with she's gonna tell you in the next in the breast of paragraph blessed be the king that cometh in the name of the Lord peace in heaven and glory in the highest and some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto Him master rebuke to disciples and he said I'm not consulting with with you with the Pharisees so who are the Pharisees that you're not allowed to consult with the leadership yes the ocean gold leadership Adventist the ones who in opposition to present truth okay who's in opposition to the present truth right here the Samaritans are in opposition to the present truth we know that so who are the Samaritans we've gotten here nominal Adventists which is the SD ace why don't you need to consult with them because they're not there they're not the leaders anymore so they're not your boss you don't need to consult with them so we've got that and you also we've marked them as the tears so you don't need to consult the tears either however you going to work that problem out so this singular person if I think I have light who is this person we know it's Ellen White what's the whole framework of all of this this is 1890 so what time period are we in we're in the 1888 message you need to know the framework in what you're dealing with so who the pharisees that she's not going to consult with these others conference structure she she says we all need to come into unity on this issue we need to come into a position where every difference will be melted away and how you're going to come to that place where own differences are melted away it's by this singular person not consulting with the structure and saying we need to have this message talked and shared and that's how we're going to come into unity it's not white people coming together and studying together by everybody listening to the word that this person has to give without consulting with anyone so who is the anyone there's an anomaly adventists this is not a call to say that brother richard has an idea and he doesn't have to come and check with us whoever the us is that this hot the rest of people in this group and then we come and discuss these things because that I is a prophet isn't it but he said the messenger of the Covenant so if he's the messengers of covenant this is Jesus and we just said Hebrews 8:1 yesterday who was that sorry us so we're all of us as this one person this prophet so now we'll know we're making these high claims that we're the messengers prepares the way the mission of the Covenant we've taken the role of the Prophet here and so once you take that position you don't need to check with anybody in fact if you are someone's permission what are you doing no I can't say it you can't remember you know that okay she comes to mind okay another question with the framework of nineteen or 1890 the I include Jones and Waggoner with the I clue James of Wagner during 1890 rhetorical question is a real question I think it does but I'm curious okay say it's rhetorical you already know your own answer I'm not saying you know you're right but you know your own answer yeah okay so so Jane Wagner and Jones but I have light I'm not going to consult with anybody this the threefold Union Wagoner Jones in the spirit prophecy it's not really the threefold Union its humanity and and divinity combined now then why it is divinity isn't she Humason divinity combined we won't even have any comminity combined you're not supposed to ask anybody in fact if you asked anybody what would that make you what kind of a prophet would that make you false prophet or I was just thinking the story of the disobedient prophet it'd be this you'd be the disobedient prophet and you're gonna die if you start consulting with people because they're going to send you down the wrong route did you know in the role you supposed to be for Finny so I'm saying this this just these two couple sentence is not that we should be talking to one another it's that we as a movement should not be going and asking permission to share this message with the church with the multitude we're supposed to be doing this because God commanded us to do this and to consult would be a dereliction in our duty anybody had their hands up knowing when Jesus rode up so we did all that right something like this by whom a man is overcome he is brought into bondage so let's trust me if we can find that last emperor of Rome surrendering his national sovereignty into the when he went to him and asked and then he wasn't even charged anymore that's what I was trying to think of okay but there's a verse that says it yeah 2nd Peter 2:19 and read it real love well my promise them Liberty they themselves out the servants of corruption for whom a manís I've become this man he brought in bondage so he starts talking about bondage my minds go straight away to that model that Paul's developed and who's the who's written that book Peter so what's Peter just bought into Paul theology they're all coming into unity on this whole issue but Peter was resisting that theology took him a while to get on board Paul had clarity on this issue from the very beginning that if you're a juror and you're a Gentile you're lost does make any difference it's all dunk because now on the other side you're gonna have the Jew and the Gentile and Peter doesn't buy into that takes him a long while and Peter is a symbol of the rest of the movement so I think that's interesting the Peter is saying this the your you go back into that system you're back into bondage so this is this is the passage I think that most people are familiar with paragraph 16 the Jews tried to stop the proclamation of the message that had been predicted in the Word of God but prophecy must be fulfilled the Lord says behold I send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the Great and dreadful day of the Lord somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah and when he appears men may say you are too earnest you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way let me tell you how to teach your message Ella why is making a self-application here she's saying this is what you're saying to me and I refute this she's saying this about Wagner and Jones but she's also referring to the future someone's going to stand up and say when he starts giving his message people are going to criticize it and I think when you do learn the point you can take this on a corporate level an individual level even within our movement people are always complaining that this message is too straight let me teach you how to say it you word the choice of words are no good over and over again and they use under handy techniques to do it don't do it opener you know in the in the open leadership don't do that do they the conference structure back in the time of Christ they won't openly attack Jesus why for fear of the people in evening our movement today there are people who are criticizing the messages that are coming out and they won't do it openly because their fear so they usually under handy techniques backbiting gossip towel bearing manipulation twisting of people's words clipping the videos to make people in a bad light and it's all the systems that these nominal Adventists use these Samaritans and if you wanna know I've said if you want to market air it's by their doctrine now I'll shift that I'm saying if you know people who using this methodology this technique they're also tazed they're in the movement and they're backed by in against people and they're not doing it in the open there are they telling you who they are that's all a bit too moral for me and I say that in a serious way next paragraph there are many who cannot distinguish between the work of God and that of man who is that the people that can't distinguish between the work have gotten out of man to me that takes me to the mountain Elijah and the prophets of Vail now Carl no thank you there are many who cannot this thing between the work have gotten out of mine I shall tell the true that God gives it to me and I say now if you continue to find faults to have a spirit of variance you will never know the truth who's she speaking about there are many who cannot this thing between the work of God and that of mine anyone else what is variance me if you continue to find for and have a spirit that disagrees or an argumentative spirit you will never know the truth so at one level she's making this the people so I'm saying if you go to Mount Carmel you've got three groups brother Tyler the prophets anyway you have the false prophets you have Elijah then you have the people who are between Elijah and the false prophets and she's talking to the other two groups to the those people who are holding between these two opinions they can't discern what the truth of God is and what the false prophecy is and you also have directly the false prophets who are thinking they're doing a good work but they're worshiping Bill so at the a classic level who is Elijah us this movement who are the people that who the false prophets if we're Elijah I'd say the false prophets are the conference structure and the people are looking and saying we don't know who's telling the truth so in that level that's how we could understand that and we make that argument I think but now they bring this into the movement then where are you are who the false prophets the tazed they're the taste and who's Elijah okay so your identify yourself it like so sometimes not a tech and so who are the people people in the movement so the people in the movement still seem to be able to distinguish between the right message and the wrong message they're halting between two opinions there are many who cannot distinguish between the work of God and that of mine what are they saying what are you saying if you don't know who's on whose - giving the right message you're saying you don't even know what the message is isn't that what you saying sister Kathy as you tell the truth that God gives it to me and I say now if you continue to find faults and have a spirit of variance you will never know the truth these people who are finding for have a spirit of variance is that the false prophets or is that the congregation who are looking at the two groups these three groups there's rely just of false prophets and the onlookers I'm saying that this is the Omega this is the doctrine that we teach and this whole movement is looking in Wonder and awe saying we don't know who's right and who's wrong so when she says if you continue to find fault and the spirit of variance who she's saying is that the Omega people are saying we fight fought with you we have a spirit of variance with you or is it the onlookers who are saying that because she says you will never have the know the truth I'm understanding there are those who cannot distinguish which means they don't know the truth contextually she's talking about the congregation they're the ones who are finding four and they're at variance if you've got people whispering to you and saying these people over there they teaching error which is this movement and they're talking about another group and saying we're not sure about them either if you stay in that condition you will never know the truth and you profess to be in the message so if you're in the message you don't know the truth what does that make you picture at a because you can't stand on the fence make sure you're Tay if you go back into that passage is it first Kings 18 your purse Kings 18 if you look at people don't like me doing this going to the Greek and Hebrew if you're going to the Hebrew and that dance that they're doing the false prophets if you look at that that dance the word that the bleeping the dance and you look at the same word that the congregation are doing it's the same word if you're hot or if you leap it's exactly the same word so if you're going to prove text that you're the same person if you're not sure in 2017 who's got the correct message and you will never know the truth because the foundations should have been sorted out a long time ago I've seen your two hands so you know we're we doing this for a long while on a doctrinal level the judgment are living 911 that's been sort of the the banner of the argument if you like but now I'm bringing this closer to home perhaps if that's the right way of saying it I'm saying the teaching that the omega brethren has and your won't hear of presentation on this is the following they think sin is connected to nature and if it's your nature to have spots or brown-skinned you can't change that if yo P if the Ethiopian cannot change his condition the neither can the leopard who can change that only God can change that and since they're all doing sin today he hasn't changed it yay she's gonna change it in the future because it's all to do with nature so if you have bought into that kind of theology then I'm saying you've got a major theology and you're halting between two opinions whether or not you can deal with the same problem today or you're gonna deal with it tomorrow if you hope between two opinions you're off the platform you're part of the Omega some people can get back on board if you couldn't get back on board the story would be irrelevant because Elijah would have killed not only the prophets but all the congregation and he doesn't teaching you that if you're willing to recognize and understand and hear the voice of the Prophet it's not too late brother Bob brother Richard maybe people are right believe trying to make a decision or understand so I'm not denying that but Christ says you two with me or against me finish you know if you continue to find fault to have a spirit variance you will never know the truth jesus said to his disciples I have yet many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now they were not in a condition to appreciate sacred and eternal things but Jesus promised to send the comforter who would teach them all things and bring all things to their remembrance whatsoever he said unto them where ever you learned him brethren we must not put our dependence in man say she from man whose breath energy is in his nostrils for wearing is he to be accounted off people get this we should not put our dependence on man and they mangle this passage up and manipulate it to their own advantage contextually in all of this what is it that be in did you see what she just said but not teaching error then what can you do isn't that what she's saying brethren must not put their dependence in man the man that you cannot wait to put your dependence in I read it back there are many who cannot distinguish doing the work of God and that of man is God and man not man against man I know so many people who say this is an argument between this man and this man it's not this is an argument between God and man and when she says don't put you dependence on man that man is the profits of bail it's the tears it's the Omega that's what the dependents are no man see shoe from man whose president is his nostrils study for yourself to show yourself approved it's not and people are doing these people saying you know this man and this man they're always fighting always squabbling always sending each other poison the emails you know what I'm going to do I can't trust any of them I'm gonna back away and unlock and watch your knee videos I'm gonna work this all out myself I'm gonna study this through myself this is the argument has been developed and who is he getting all of this it's a satanic attack it all comes on the false prophets and the people who are buying into this are all going down the broad road to perdition if you follow this if you can't distinguish between who is God and who is man yeah they're halting business yes yes but the reason you can concept you can be comfortable with it that I'm holding between pinions who would hope between God and man nobody would so what you have to do you have to convince yourself that this is not God and if this person says I'm God you're gonna call the person blasphemous brother tithe ain't closing s the man is the Talese not us when's his breath call 911 use Jack 911 don't have any breath you're following men who've got their own breath define that a man you've got a secret man who's got his own bread great that's the point I wanted to pick up it's not many general because when this movement are not we're not men let's pray Heavenly Father as we consider the high calling of what it means to be a human being higher than the highest thought that we could ever imagine as we're coming to our close of probation we want to ask and pray Lord that you would allow your words to do their work in us Lord when Jesus at the very beginning of his ministry began to tangle with his opponents he knew that they would manipulate and rest his words and yet he could do nothing but to deliver those words to those men for without those words those people would never have had an opportunity to be saved help us to understand Lord the work of the everlasting gospel that creates two classes of people through a message as these words that are pregnant with so with import with such important truths as we see the implications of what we're saying we see how difficult these words would be for many people to accept help us Lord not to shy away from duty and the work that you have given us to do in Jesus his name we pray amen