(10-24-17) - The Former & Latter Rain - (wU2U0oiq-xo)




Publish Date: 10/24/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (10-24-17) - The Former & Latter Rain-wU2U0oiq-xo
YouTube ID: wU2U0oiq-xo



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I don't want to go over it to any great death but I just want to make a couple of observations my understanding is when you go to any Old Testament prophet Isaiah Ezekiel Jeremiah and he has a vision concerning God's people the first place you need to do you need to go to understand what he's talking about is the historical context so when I've done that in the past people have said that I using the historical critical method ology so you smile but a lot of people take that seriously so then if we how we approach those Old Testament prophecies do we allow the history to control how we're going to approach that particular passage before we even begin to make an application so just wanted to begin there what your thoughts are how you approach sir prophecy of Ezekiel 8 or Ezekiel 9 before you begin to making any kind of application to it the historical understanding of our pioneers in the middle of writes before we make an application to our day I'm just seeing that that's the right way to do it I've notice actually that we don't tend to do that even when we go to me write history we tend to jump straight into a future application so one of the offers that we do that with I think one that's currently is probably the letters of Samuel snow I wonder actually how much time we go into looking at the historical context of how they were put together what was going on and I don't mean who's friends with who and when they when they book but the actual way we track that history because we bring it into our own history and then we not juggling things around don't we do that is it to a big degree I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying it's for us to consider but we're starting to do this if you just take that middle right history we've got April the 19th here I'm 44 what do we say that is in our line so we say this is 911 but we take his letters and he's your April the 3rd Ferb you 22nd then we go to May 2nd and you've seen when we start playing with these letters that way with we shift where that is because that's no longer 911 that's now being shifted into the future so the point I'm making is if we're not careful about accurately tracking the original history we can end up doing things that maybe aren't correct so that's a reason I'm bringing up that that point in Ezekiel 9 to me what Ezekiel he's doing he's talking about Jerusalem which is God's people they're about to be destroyed isn't he so the first place that I would understand this to be dealing with what would be in that context which is I guess where we were going yesterday so I've got Jerusalem here is the SDA church but in reality it's ancient Israel it's a symbol of ancient Israel there are these people who have charged over the city who aren't part of the problem and they separate into the five and one so in the it's historical context who would these people be the five and the one so are they all babble on all six men or is it just the four all of them have got slaughter weapons one of them is marking and five of them are gonna rape or kill so if we're going to if we're going to say that the killing is the five what's the who's the one easy cure anyone else Nebuchadnezzar so it's all Babylon I don't care if it's Nebuchadnezzar or not I'm just saying that never get its Nebuchadnezzar's authority that is rebelled against it brings our destruction you know he's in theory send them a message saying see sure rebellion and submit to me and because they don't they get destroyed anyone else the first time I thought of you Ezekiel because is Ezekiel's prophecy people accepted and that's what was saved if they I'm sorry if they would accept the warning message that because telling them like other property in that word that's what we're saying so in this time period Daniel's not in Jerusalem and Ezekiel is not in Jerusalem but Jeremiah is so would it be Jeremiah in Jerusalem while he raises up easy kill at the time there were two false prophets in Jerusalem and they were in government working concurrently and so while Jeremiah was doing his work the Lord reads of Ezekiel in Babylon to do the work of warning the people there so that baby inside they weren't marked for insurrection so he's dealing with God's people just to see him and Jeremiah dealing with God's people so how do you address verse 1 when it says he cried in my narrative with a loud voice saying calls them that have charged over the city to draw near because they're not in the city you can buy your experience you don't have to be it's your connection with God or I view it as your connection with God I I get your point and you're probably ready and it's not what you're dealing with but you put this in place yesterday you're doing it again today and it's important to your premise when it says cause them to have charge over the city to draw near why does that necessarily mean that they were outside of the city why why can't it be there at the city and you saying okay come gather together here we gotta work so you think that they might even breathe in the city I'm just wondering why previously that the people who come and killed them at Babylonians and the Babylonians aren't in the city I'm taking it in its historical context that was that's been part of my logic right from the beginning yeah I I I accept out lies mm-hmm sangbin there's got to be someone outside the city yeah including the man in linen yeah so the third angel is a message what's the message that Babylon brought to them are they for anybody checked is that actually does that message actually get to to Jerusalem the information when the Lord is eliminated because she's sure easy care one begins with him seeing the destruction of Jerusalem to where they are coming from they're coming from the north with a north gate so I think it makes easy to see that the five people are then Babylon because Babylon comes from the north I don't have a solution for the one person but wouldn't that person also have come from the north yeah and the other thing that I thought was that he's doing his work before the disruption the north like the tidings of the noise you seen Daniel that's why I guess that's why sister Lavinia saying it's a prophet that's doing that work he's giving God's people are warning about approaching judgment but but he's not in the city so I wouldn't I wouldn't make him Jeremiah in this system that situation okay so they have charge over the city they live outside and luckily we've made an application it's 911 so in this context if we were going to make an application it seems to me that the first application that would make that this would be the SDA church so I'm holding to that to that original premise that I had that seventh-day Adventist Church the end of the world and there are a group of people who are outside of that church who have charge over it and it's they live outside they're outside of that system and they're going to both mark and then destroy Jerusalem so I think if we're all happy with that application that this is this movement that comes to do this work I saw a message the other day I think people are beginning to watch the prophecy school presentations or maybe the some of the classes I don't know what they're where they're getting that from but there seems to be some misunderstanding than if it's accidental or deliberate that people are suggesting that I guess it's me he's calling our church Babylon so why would people make that assumption that I'm calling the church Babylon well maybe that we're beginning to think that the church is Babylon in my recollection I think you clearly in my recollection you clearly I'm not change or anything but he said it's a message to come out of Leland to see you those are your words you didn't say Babylon okay you are calling people out of Blair to see it with this message and we've been warned as Adventists never call the church babel endeavor no one has a message to call the church goblin and call them out but as you stated as has always been in this message from the beginning to call the seventh-day Adventist Church Babylon is to give them a compliment the most corrupt Church in the book of Revelation is the lay of this deal because they've rejected all the greatest life so you're doing worse you're calling the church later to see it a second to do worse just as long as they're accurate he portrayed what people say because you're speaking about it when you're at the bank yeah I caught here we put the front now pick it up on the microphone I turn around because of the organization that's taking place and it may seem that this is a kind of new movement and it's being separated from the church but you're you're separating yourself from the church it may seem that way as well because of organization and something seeing that it that way I think what I struggle is when people make that you know those kind of accusations they're either not listening to what's being said or they're not studying for themselves because if you go back to Ezekiel 9 you know that Jerusalem is not Babylon but in some shape or form it's already beginning to be captive by Babylon because it says that these people have charged over the city so Babylon is already controlling them they've been controlling them for a long time if you go back to Josiah and this is a long time after Josiah why does Josiah have a fight with Farrah Nikko when he when he when when they struggle with each other what's the reason for that because he's in a lot because Josiah is an alliance with the king of the north isn't he so this this alliance or this subjugation isn't something new in our in ancient Israel it's been going on for a long time so if Aaron Eko says I'm just passing through the Kings Highway let me go he wasn't going to trouble Josiah and just so I knew that but Josiah's motivation is to help his master and are calling the master because he's the king of the north he rules he's a super power of the time Assyria Ares and there's a challenger that's coming up and Josiah has to protect his friend so this idea that anybody in this movement is teaching that our church is Babylon is is is a force is a lie I don't know what else to call it because to suggest that we're not in we're not in captivity to Babylon is rejecting this message because we know that we've gone through a twenty five twenty hopefully to a satisfaction I've already demonstrated that at the end of the world things don't run sequentially they run concurrently so the punishment by paganism runs concurrently to the punishment by papal ISM so you get that 1260 and then you have a remnant so since 1863 we've been in captivity progressively both by paganism the world the Kings and also papal ism so we've been able cap captivity for a long time and to suggest otherwise I don't know what people how they develop their models elder Jeff sister other thing where you talk about Josiah being in subjection to their canoes or you're talking about the political part of ancient Israel or Judah but in the Ezekiel chapter 8 there which is repeating and large with Ezekiel chapter 9 their religious manifestation is illustrated and they're completely doing pagan worship so not only were there political politically under the submission to Babylon but religiously they're they're doing their religious service yes it's not Nebuchadnezzar or just that was just a typo it's because it's before Nebuchadnezzar window size it's just wise friends with the Syrians yes he's king in the north and that's one of my arguments that at the end of the world since 63 1863 paganism and papal ism have brought this church into captivity concurrently we don't just think like the world we act like the papacy we imbibe their doctrines was bringing not that when we mark before generation of Adventism we mark it beginning that 1957 because we think of a new order but also historically in that period the church made a lot of compromise who made a lot of compromise with you know the doctrines of the church so like what prodigious said it was not only the leadership was that was in captivity to Paul to Babylon but the religion also became subservient to the Babylonish behavior unlike wise we see that in the history of our church this this idea for me I know people disagree with it he's one of the is one of my arguments I think it's a strong argument to show that this concept of the jesuit order infiltrating our church doesn't have a prophetic basis because by time you get to Ezekiel eight and you're in this situation they've imbibed all the doctrines of Babylon the following all their practices and there aren't Babylonian undercover agents doing that work for them in the church they don't need that because they're out there they're captive to Babylon politically and religiously brotherly they would corrupted ourselves who don't know Jesuits to make it anywhere yeah with caucus and we don't need Jesuit and just part of that we don't even need Satan now just changing the thought completely we don't even need Satan to do sin or to tempt us or to fall away we're on autopilot now we're self functioning in our relationship to sin and I don't want to make sin a thing but if Satan died now we wouldn't suddenly get better we've been the same position so when we make application here and we're saying I'm saying that these people who have charged over the city the leaders they live outside of Jerusalem I'm talking about the movement that we have here that the separation that's going on so we spoke at the prophecy school about lady seer and Ephesus again there are people who are struggling with that concept I'm not sure why they struggle with that because it's for me it's clear to see that in the story of the New Testament Christ that there's the separation that's going on in there and they're these two churches running concurrently but people are using that model to suggest the with some dissident group and if we're the church in that then Adventism must be Babylon it's this whole Mis application of what's being taught and I think it's being done deliberately so I think you can make that application here that it's the original one is that what we've got here but there's a secondary application if there's that's it if you're going to make the secondary application that this Jerusalem now is not the SDA church it's the movement if it's the movement then what do we do with this model who are these people who have charged over the city who live outside he's first one because the higher gate is a city the word gated city and it says where it says the whole six make a from the way the words from the way is out of so out of the city they've come out of the city which is in repetition of words one sin we looked at that and this I was going to look at that but who are these people who are these five and one men are they the leaders of the structure that we're beginning to organize is that who these people would be okay first off I think the reason that people if they're innocently making that criticism of what you said I think is based upon their unwillingness to use the right methodology line upon line clearly illustrates this separation process that goes on but who those people are I guess it depends on context doesn't it because the Angels the third angel does the ceiling can be the people of God it can be the eighth we can be Christ it can be the Angels that can be the message so I don't know which one of those answers you're looking for maybe you just think it's one but I would think it was the message well I've got to Matthew 13 which we all discussed and it became a subject of contention in this movement because I'm saying that these servants to have the ability to identify the wheat and tares and it's the same issue that's going on in Ezekiel the way I've approached these parables is first of all that there's a work of combining I think it's clear that there's a work of combining if you go to 89 to 911 to midnight if we were just to take line of the priests and it's in this history that the plants are growing in this field then the servants are outside of the problem and I think we did this a few weeks ago when we started listing two groups yeah I think we had a list of about 15 plus and then we went back into those lines and at least five or six of them you see there are not two groups there are three groups yeah repeatedly there are these three groups do you remember what some of them were this Jeremiah with the precious and the vial there's Jesus anymore sorry okay so there's Matthew 25 which I put the one that gives the cry I'll just put the word Cry 13 the servants will leave it down unless I'm gonna happen pulls up another one in a minute but you can see you have a number of stories that teach you there these three groups and as you approach these these four stories you see that there's this third group is identifying someone who's outside of the story because Matthew 25 is a story of the ten virgins and there's someone on the outside is going to give a cry the servants aren't in the field or part of the field Jesus isn't part of the twelve disciples and Jeremiah's going to sort out the precious and the vile who live in Jerusalem did anybody find any more okay so I'm saying all of these four stories are all identifying a common theme that this one person here is the third angel whereas when you go back into the story the precious and the vial the twelve disciples the ten virgins and the wheat in the tares all of these four stories when he talks about the people that are in the story are all talking about the second angel so these plants that grow in this story which is the ten virgins which are the twelve disciples which of the pressures and the viol are all a symbol of the second angel so it's the second angel that is the experience of God's people that we go through and experiences both intellectual and spiritual but the third angel is outside of the problem it's not what's being addressed in those stories and that's why I think that when it says that they live outside of the city they have charged over the place is not because it's dealing with people in the normalization or structure but it's dealing at a more fundamental level is dealing with the third angel and I'm arguing that the third angel is a human being that has the ability to understand what's going on but they can see the problem in the church and they do something about it so that's how that's how I've approached Ezekiel 9 and Matthew 13 is the same way see in Matthew 13 I can't remember what diversity it's in in 13 when Jesus begins to explain what he's talking about it's reversed 10 you think it's verse 10 I don't know it's not first time no it's not it's not 24 it's let me find it the explanation of what what it is Matthew 13 and it's verse thirty-eight Matthew 13:38 they're going to ask what this parable means he says the field is the world so he starts off by saying that the field is the world and but when Ellen White comments on this passage in Christ object lessons she's gonna say it's not the world she's gonna say it's the field throwing the church in the world so she gives a total difference spin on it or she's trying to correct Jesus you have to ask yourself what is it that she's trying to do is she trying to correct Jesus that Jesus wasn't accurate when he said it's the world or if she just making another application so my understanding is she's making a separate and distinct application so if it was what Jesus said it's the world he says I had this what I had this world and I planted good seed into this world so what where would that be going to if you had them you have a clean virgin field this world and now you're gonna plant seed into it so I think this is Adam and Eve that he's speaking of sow seed goes in there Adam and Eve everything's going well then they get distracted something happens and then an enemy comes in and sews tears so you know as a minimum you can see that this is the work of Cain and others I don't think it's the serpent per se he comes in and he calls his problem you might argue that it it even becomes Adam and Eve but the way Christ is describing all of this I think he's taking us right back to Genesis this is right back here there's been a problem and instead of God sorting it out what does he do what has he told the servants to do leave them and let them grow together for thousands and thousands of years and I think only we as Adventists can understand why you know unless you understand what Ellen White teaches and her concept of the great controversy it doesn't make any sense I don't think Christians have an idea of why you would wait so many thousands of years to sort out the problem but in the application I think that's what God is what Jesus is teaching them right from the beginning there was this problem he says let them grow together until the end of the world then at the end of the world there's going to be this separation so you can get this whole story at a really large scale but other white says well let's make a different application so she's going to say it's the church so read that the field Christ said is the world but we understand this is signifying the Church of Christ in the world the Powerball is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God his work of salvation of men and this work is accomplished through the church truth the Holy Spirit has gone out into the world everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God okay so even if you were just thinking about Genesis that's still a symbol of the church I would suggest so you have Adam and Eve come in do this good work they have these children can enable are both members of the church aren't they so an enemy again plants this seed in the church but she's not talking about Cain and Abel directly she's bringing this you know in a generic sense to the church so if we were just to take that she could apply it in different ways so if this is Adventism so the let's make that let's make this field adventism so it Advent he planted it cleaned the field out it's all clean he plants wheat and then tears come in so we have full spreads ring coming into the church and who would the servants be okay again it's some level it's God's people who identify what's going on and he tells them to leave it until the end of the world so you can make an application about adventism here but I make an application about it's the church triumphant so if he's the church triumphant here we've got wheat and tares in this movement who'd the servants be I'm saying it's not some super individuals who have x-ray eyes or whatever you know they can see things it's talking about something that's more fundamental than that it's a representation or symbol of the third angel that's doing a work of selecting investigating here and then sealing them binding sister Kathleen yes and and I'm trying to say I'm saying these people I'm saying it's people it's us we're required to recognize and I just don't on a play of words you know if I were to ask you a real servants of God you know I know Jesus says I don't call you servants I call you friends now but we're all the servants of God aren't we with his disciples so to deny the fact in that story that you're not a servant tells us I think is a telling fact that we're saying we're not even part of the movement we're required all of us to be servants we're all required to be the third angel and if we're going to deny the fact that we don't have the ability to do that work or we're not willing to do that work or we're scared to do that work means we forfeit now to be even being part of the movement so what's the difference between the weeds and discernment so what's the difference between the wheat in a servant if you're going to talk about the person I don't think there's any difference but it's a different role I'm suggesting that when we approach these parables we're so apt to make them too literal in their spiritual application so I've met people want to make them to individual people or if someone wants to make them the same person with a different experience some current 1corinthians you know six verses one through five highlights that it's the Saints that are to judge the angels and and the tears essentially so we are to be the third angel and that incense so the argument that Paul makes theories that we already know that we're going to be judging angels and if we're going to do that high calling it's not so much of a big deal to judge the church and though he's the context that he's using is different there but what I'm saying is that each of us has to understand we have this dual role we have to enter into an experience that this message brings us to that has a transformation or transforms us restores us back into the image of God but what we're doing that we also have a responsibility of bringing judgment not only to the church but even to ourselves and this is the argument that's in our movement that we're down how we don't have the right nor do we have the ability to judge until sometime in the future but the stories teach otherwise this person is going to mark them before the executive or the executed judgment and in Matthew 13 it's the same story they have the ability to identify the two groups before the reaping happens in fact common sense would teach you that you'd need to do that before but the issue is people are not contained to make this into a human being and the reason I think they do that is because you look at people and say who made you a judge over us what gives you this right to do are you so righteous that you can do that work in Ezekiel says night it says yes the to night says yes because you're in white linen sister other seven 507 paragraph one I'm reading from the last sentences only those who are living up to the light they have received will receive greater light unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues we shall not recognize the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in military it may be falling on hearts our own we shall not discern ours and what is that me as Jonathan are asked about what makes the distinction marine are the latter in serves our purpose it is for right mini-grid for the harvest and as in the natural so it is pretty well you always have fruit that is right before so it's not as if everything is right all at once there's only that food that is right before and therefore you're required to have discernment as it is that your point you know you have to be able to discern so with the discernment I think it is that your class of a servant but if you just look at the field you're talking about and they took the wheat in the field and the servants you can see if you look at it in a physical level with with the church you could be a member of the church but you can also be a deacon in the church does it mean the deacon is you know you can you can serve as a deacon be servant to the church and yet you're part of that church so I mean it's just it's different roles wearing different hats and if but you're still part of that group it to me it is it's not hard to understand the difference between the wheat and the servants that level did that really agree with sister all the beans application there they really understand the application there that's right I forgot it that quick where's your city just summarize what you say that's what you say does that mean understand what you say just look at the TM 507 we're talking about what what's the difference between the servant and I'm the field and I was just making the point that it is dependent on the reception of the ring I'm there for the food that is right in the first which is in the field it becomes different than the harvest the first route is different than the harvest I'm not necessarily saying that her application fits what you're dealing with but she's saying there's a distinction between the harvest and the first Ruth everybody catch that yeah no servant so let me read that again for from the beginning of the paragraph does she only cut in she cut into the paragraph 507 paragraph one many having a great measure failed to receive the former rain they have not obtained all the benefits that God has thus provided for them they expect that lack which will be supplied by the latter rain when the richest abundance of grace shall be bestowed they intend to open their hearts receive it they're making a terrible mistake before I carry on I'm disagreeing with what she's saying that's why I'm going back to the beginning that's why I'm asking if we all understood what she said just I think I'm going to disagree with that the work of God the work that God has begun in the human heart is given his light and knowledge through in giving his light and knowledge must be continually going forward every individual must realize his own necessity the heart must be emptied a very defilement and cleanse for the indwelling of the Spirit it was by the confession and forsaking of sin by earnest prayer and consecration of themselves to God that the early disciples prepared for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost the same work only in greater degree must now be done then the human agent had only to ask for the blessing and wait for the law to perfect the work concerning him it is God who began the work and he will finish his work making man complete in Jesus Christ but there must be no neglect of the grace represented by the former rain only those who are living up to the light they have will receive greater light unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the Christian or the active Christian virtues which are not recognized the manifestations of the holy spirit in the latter rain it may be falling on hearts all around us but we shall not discern or receive it so before I say I'm the screen you tell me if I'm saying what you're saying without proving any of that if I make the assertion that from 911 to midnight that this is one month thirty days can we can we do that yeah so if it's if it's one month how can we make that one month brother Bob not sure by the record because uh I think it's uh Jarell 2:23 talk about the former in the letter but I could I could make anything one month you dis actively water sonic no maaske how can I make that month that's what I'm saying because he said the former and the latter range so okay so I'm gonna do this 1989 I could make that a month it's another ask you how can I make that a month I'm asking just for the logic to how you actually making it month because I'm gonna go to Joel but I think he's working backwards to do that okay so so I'm gonna say this is 76 days for 99 days I'm saying how do we generate that number what would be a logic to do that because this would be a 1260 or a 40 we can have lots of numbers there so when we generate the numbers to plug them in I'm just asking what is that what would the logic be I did I get the question okay yeah I guess that's what I might add one day one month is thirty days so I would approach it this way when brother Tyler did revelation 9 he would go to Luke chapter one and he Luke chapter one this would be how long yeah this would be 150 days or five months and then you'd go here to the midnight cry which would be one month or 30 days so you've got 30 there but we want to draw in 30 here so what we're going to do what what do we pick up in this story with this a 5 months or 6 months because this is Luke chapter 1 this is the story of Elizabeth isn't it and what's Elizabeth doing here she's hiding or being obscure so she's been obscure then we can go back into the story of Christ and we know that Christ was obscure for how long for 30 years so that's where I would get that 30 from he would be marking the hiding or the obscurity of Christ if you do that what does that make that event the birth of Christ and that would mark the beginning of his ministry yeah so would that be correct application yeah you can do that you can mark a birth here why would we mark a birth here yeah baptism you go from the position of a rebel to a child of God steps to Christ page 67 thank you for you live a sanctified life so you can you can show that there's a 30 here so now we've gotten 30 so now we can go to go to Joel 223 that was the verse that everybody was going too wasn't it yeah be glad they knew children of Zion and rejoice in the Lord your God but he hath given you the former rain moderately and it will cause to come down for you the rain the former rain and the latter rain in the first month so this 30 days is a month so what month is this how do you notice the first month you can't no you can't do that you can't say because it says because I just I could have gone to Amos chapter 69 verse 5 and I could have had it you know a first month and and it would have plugged it here you can't say because it says it in there because I've I've put a verse in here and you don't know if the verse fits so how we going to get that verse to fit why what is the verse fit what's that going to teach us why would you go 2007 yeah so we've got the first day of the first month so we know that 911 is the first month so that's why we can apply Joel 2:23 here yeah so we have what we have a legitimate reason to bring Joel here so this is the first month are we okay with that what's going to happen in the first month the first thing we want to understand is it rains for the whole month so that's one point that I wanted to see the whole month is rain what happens after the rain you have to harvest yeah cuz this there you're going to get into the first through harvest this is yeah okay so let's put it into two and we had the former rain and the latter rain so if we can do that let's go back into testimonies to ministers it says many having a great major fail to receive the form of rain so here you are will make obviously when we get passages like this we can make different applications do we realize that yes because way Ellen White's applying this is different to the way we're applying it but we're using the same phraseology the same context so another the same Condor the same words but we're making a totally different application yeah where would she be talking about this many having a great major failed to receive the form array where would that form a rain beam reference to the relationship to the latter rain that she's talking about okay obviously team for it I think she's way past that my understanding is that she's talking about the Sunday law where people are expecting the latter rain loud cry to be given and they're living in this dispensation from 1844 to the Sunday law which is the former rain is he saying you need to perfect your character here and don't wait for this to do that work for you she says that in a number of different ways but she's always making this point don't put off what you're supposed to put doing today for tomorrow yeah and isn't this the whole argument that our movement exists upon that you're supposed to make a preparation today for tomorrow our message is that simple really to stop putting off what you can sort out today for tomorrow because when tomorrow comes it's too late because she won't tell you directly that this is the close of probation you know like you can't go to a place goes by the way that suddenly it's going to come because of break-ins so it's too late but she tells you repeatedly over and over again in different ways even how she makes different applications that it's too late by here it's it's a doomed attempt it's been pointed out and a lot of people understand this if you look at the literal world when you want you if you if you don't get the former ring then the ground gets very hard and it dries up and then when the latter rain comes it just runs off because the ground is so hard you need that you need to form a reign first cuz that thick that that comes slowly and it softens the soil so in the the latter rain and the heavier rains come that the soil is prepared to receive it but if the soil is already as hard as a brick because it hasn't received a form of rain when the heavy rains come it's all going to wash off it does it doesn't absorb in I had that level if you didn't have a form of rain the seed wouldn't even germinate just it just from the perspective of the plant and it would be crushed by the by the rain many have been a great major failed to receive the former rain there obtain all the benefits that God has thus provided for them they expect that the lack will be supplied by the latter rain when the richest abundance of grace shall be bestowed they intend to open their hearts to receive it they're making this horrible mistake so in our movement I'm suggesting we're now here we're here today and there are people today who are struggling to gain an experience which they have neglected to obtain in this history and if you read the whole passage did she say there's even any hope so I think if you read it you'll say there's the Risen she says if you're what if you're if you're going through this history and what she was doing she's she's she's actually in here remember when she's doing all of this and she's looking forward and she's saying if you're waiting for this time period to sort you out it's never going to happen and our problem is in this movement we're already here we're already here and what she was predicting it's too late to do it to sort the problem out there you know it's like being over here were you in this place it's it's too late the work that God has begun in the human heart and giving his light and knowledge must be continually going forward every individual must realize his own necessity the heart must be emptied of every defilement and cleanse for the for the indwelling of the Spirit it was by the confession and forsaking of sin by oh nice prayer and consecration of themselves to God that the early disciples prepared for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost all I want to say by that I've developed this module in a I've demonstrated why I think it's that way but if you were going to do with this another way and you're going to make this 911 I think you can argue strongly that this is the latter rain from 9/11 and you can pull up the former rain if we went all the way to Pentecost which she says is the outpouring of the spirit I think here yeah that the phrase that she used yeah but for us it's the former rain this is the former rain do you think season acts with the Apostles this is a full brain this is the latter rain so if you had the former rain going all the way through just like this model but you pick it up from 1989 because it's our dispensation this of them would be a symbol of the former rain and if you're not a partaker of the work here you can't be a partaker of the work here it's going to be falling in the hearts all around and you just go that you've lost your opportunity if you don't get your character sorted out here you're you're lost here so this is this discussion about where we place things and I'm saying this is baptism not repentance and to make it repentance starts moving way marks and it destroys your ability to be able to stand during the time period of the latter rain now you know when we did all of this and people are saying well I'm not ready and all this kind of stuff for it came in late this is a reformed line of a movement and the way I understand which what we should be doing is we take that template of a movement and we apply it to our own lives I don't know I don't know how you know how to how to approach this but except to just do it this way at the same time I'm not trying to make people's cases hopeless but the other type not to give a peace and safety message to say it's all going to be okay don't worry about it because we serve a merciful God because we all will agree somewhere down the line mercy stops and judgment kicks in and more than that we teach that the judgment began at 9/11 or 1989 we teach that but I don't think we're really maybe internalizing it I don't know so I don't know I'm just going with what that passage says they say you need to sort it out here because by the time you get to here it's too late so I'm gonna skip through all the rest of that I'm gonna pick up I say almost wish where sister olivine picked up only those who are living up to the light they have will receive greater light so that light is the light of the former rain if you're living up to this light then you receive the light that's here and so you've already seen us beginning to develop the model that this is the foundations so only those who have lived up to the foundational message of these messages of this movement only those who are now living up to the light they have which is in that history will receive greater light unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues which are not recognized the manifestations of the holy spirit in the latter rain it may be falling on hearts all around us but we shall not discern or receive it so the people who have rejected the foundational messages here are not receiving the latter rain here but it's falling on hearts all around them when it's falling what do they call it Falk's like someone say something delusion so I'll just call it era sister sure mother you said something okay so now there's rain that's being poured there's light that's being given and the people who didn't get their life sorted out here didn't accept these messages what they saying all this is all error so when they start seeing it's error what they going to do no one's going to practice or accept or live in error are they so they're going to reject the error so they're gonna reject the latter rain and that's what we've seen in our movement the rejection of the latter rain so when we come to this place here I'm saying that's what this servant is doing this servant is identifying the people who are rejecting the latter rain because at an intellectual level no one wants to pull out of this reform line you know you just can't do that because there's a life-and-death message so you can't just say okay I'm going to leave this movement I'm going to go back to church or back to whatever whatever it is so what do people do you know when we read this one and I think is an application here for the Adventist Church when you get into the Sunday law period and people are going to say we're no longer seven day Adventists we're going to become Catholic it's not going to be like that is it the structure is going to remain they're all going to be keeping Sabbath however they keep it I mean there are people who keep Sabbath today are they but they go to restaurants on the Sabbath or they do you know strange activities that most of us would think is clearly breaking Sabbath but you can justify many many things I don't think Satan's going to invent schemes and plans to say I kill none of you have to go and work at Walmart on or you know your shifts are change or you're gonna lose your job or something for a few of us maybe maybe that but corporately they're going to create a system whereby you think you're going to be keeping Sabbath but you're going to be breaking it so Adventism isn't gonna walk away from its doctrines it's not going to say we now reject the Sabbath than we believe in this the wrong view of the state of the Dead they're going to practice those things but they're not going to have some open statement to do that I don't think that's what they're going to do because they're gonna be under a delusion they're gonna still think they're on the line and that's what's happening here that's why there's a separation the shaking going on because everybody thinks they're on the line if you're part of that group of people and people don't even like me say or any of us saying that they're like there's that group and you know at the process called I was saying these brethren who have separate the who are part of the movement and nobody's ever saying they're not even part of the movement they think they're part of the movement they don't think they've pulled away some of them soft-pedal and say we're just having an argument but it'll get sorted out other the same us we're off the platform we're not in the line and they are is the Catholic having I cast out demons haven't I done all these things in he's gonna say depart from me I never knew you so we know there's gonna be that class of people that think they're on the right pathway so they say things we do all of this work for you and he's gonna say I never knew you is that this person is he us who are saying you might have done all of this work back here but you know what we never knew you you were never part of us I know that application you make is that Jesus is saying that bribe saying isn't that what we're saying where people are now rising up in opposition to us what would you we say about we say no by the way they used to hang around with us but they were never of us and they they say we did all this teaching we had all this light in fact not only do we have all these we brought light to the movement yeah I mean there are a number of cases who can break up they brought light to the movement and we're saying you were never of us the probably despite all the miracles that you did and we're not denying that they did miracles yeah they helped build and they didn't enter so which one of you is actually going under the arc okay you don't put you had it but a fair few of you are just helping to build so all you're doing here is helping to build the ark because you're not even gonna go on which is a scary thought brother Larry so how can we know that we're in the right camp if we take this passage let's bring ourselves back to here so you're back here you have to been accepting all of these messages and thing is when you go through it you don't know if you are if you're not your neighbor you might know for yourself but you don't know if your neighbor is yeah because everybody says that they're only accepting it but as soon as this point comes now it's demonstrated who was actually accepting all this and who wasn't accepting it and simmer how we know who is a we if you know if you know who you are you know you're weak then you would be doing the work you need to be doing go back to your both so I think the other way so one of the points I want to bring up before I just address that is that we when we get to this history here this is the time period where you can begin to make the separation and distinction the reason you can do that is because the latter rain is falling on hearts everywhere but now there are two groups because there are people who are saying whatever's happening here is a rejection of the message or a rejection of God it's not true because they can't it may be from the hearts all around but we shall not discern or receive it so what people are doing is not discerning so what's happening here in this history we're getting Ezra we're getting the King of the South we're getting a number of different we just go with those two so if people are rejecting those things are those things true or are those things erroneous and the way you know is by going back and finding if they had ever accepted these things here elder Jeff brother Richard I say 815 says and many among them shall stumble and fall and be broken and snared and taken this is the foolish Crees verse 16 bind up the testimony seal the law among my disciples and then down to verse 20 it says to the law and the testimony if they speak not according to this word is because there's no light in them and the testimony is the stones and then the foundations if they're not speaking according to that then they're gonna stumble fall be broken this narrative we taught you questioned for a life to me every one of us individually when we stand here has to do a self check to see if we agree with all of these things and people might think it's a bit subjective is it subjective for all of us to stand here today and say we accept all of this truth back here in the form of rain is it is it an issue of subjectivity or or is it objective because that's the question for this servant to know who is who when I've brought the subject up over and over again even people who are favorable or they claim to be they say you know I'm not part of the Omega and I would push them to say well are you prepared to say that the Omega are tears and they would say no and I don't understand why because I do understand why I'm saying to say no then you're saying it's then it's a matter of subjectivity that you don't really know what the checklist is or there are criteria to be part of the Omega or to be part of the church triumphant so you don't know if you're saying that you don't know what the latter rain is I don't know how long we've been teaching that the lack training is a message you know that's what this movement movement teaches and if someone said now today stands up and says you know I don't know I think it's been too judgmental however they phrase it to identify that group and that group is instant isn't some kind of nebulous people let me let me make one point here hold that point but it's connected to it in the time of Christ they have an argument they say where's this great kingdom that everybody's been talking about and Jesus says what the kingdom you can't even see it because it's in you yeah and we call that the kingdom of grace that's the argument that's being used today and I think it's a fallacious argument because in the time of Christ they've got spies wandering around everywhere so the kingdom that God is setting up can people identify it it's not within you it's not some kind of secret hidden kingdom you know who is who you know if you're one of the twelve this dissident organization or you're one of the Sanhedrin and the the parents of the blind man they know that don't they they say yeah if we if we assent to this thing we're going to be kicked out of the church and we're not quite prepared to join that movement it's identifiable you can see who the people are you can name names I have like dossiers on these disciples if they know who their uncle and their mother was and they're keeping a track on them and if you're if if Matthew had a brother I don't if he did or not if his brother started having leanings to all this they keep an eye on him and they start censoring him and restricting him putting pressure on him not to join the movement I mean that's what the church does now if they if they see you starting to do the 2520 thing they'll destroy the ship that the teacher but the people are accepting it they don't they won't destroy shoots straight away they warn you because they know you've got a name and you've got a doctrine that you believe brother Richard and brother okay yeah you stated what I was gonna say way better than I could have ever said it but on the question of objectivity versus objectivity the way I always looked at it is if you're not if you said your party's movement you have to have a foundation it for me is like what messages did you have delay any of this stuff out you have to be able to point to and if you can't point to it that's something this objective is not it's not open for you no criticism is there a foundation there on the ground or not if you don't have one and you can't say that you are the new leaders of this movement because where's your foundation where's the Builder of your house so how do you defend that the change from full moraine to leather rain how do we discerning yeah only howdini how can you market because obviously literally you know rains rains ones heavier than the other or there's not a space in between obviously of nothing so how do you we've got the middle point between 9:00 11:00 midnight how do you okay truth there how do we really know we've accepted this truth okay we take this truth the whole thing yeah or even before okay so how do i I do I know you'll be exactly the truth oh yeah this is my cell yeah but how do I know you have accepted it yeah how can you discern others or even know yourself oh we're trying to dress your question a little bit later on I don't think I'm going to do it today so how do we know where everybody stands I just ask you don't know I mean is it that difficult the first the first thing that you notice is there's like this given here or message that they begin to reject they begin to have a rejection of truth here and then as you probe deeper no let me rephrase it there's not reject you there's different opinions of what's going on in here some people saying this is right and some people saying this is wrong and as you probe deeper it always revolves back to this history so the two things that have been picked up at least they're more than two things today because we're already in this time period one of them I'm not trying to put them in order I'll just drop them down like this so one of the truths is the judgment of the living so this you know there's an argument here which is about Ezra so that you don't know no one's arguing about is where everybody's no agrees with that to a fashion and then we go to Daniel 11 maybe verses 5 to 16 we started talking about raffia and Pentium and people starting to argue and then when they're arguing they're just saying well you see it this way and I see it that way and that's where the confusion comes in because people are saying this all seems a bit subjective because how do I know how your play if you're playing those verses correctly so I'm saying it's not that subjective because what happens in the mix of all that's going on here it leaks out so that's my question my response to sisters shamila it just leaks out then even though they agree with or apparently agree with all of these things they let it know that actually they don't except some of the things that are going on here they didn't accept the form of rain so to the ones that come up over and over again is the issue the judgment of the living past what time yeah we're in the latter rain I believe so those who are in the latter rain are we all now sealed here those of it set to the truth okay so one of them is the judgement of the living and the other one is the issue of the second angel so how we relate to the second angel and how we relate to the judgement and they're connected truths in this history is now surfacing so the test is not whether or not you just believe that the King of the South is Russia or not because people are going to use that as the marker to know whether you have accepted a lot of rain or not but I'm saying it's these ones here they've rejected their foundations so even though you can make an ascent to accepting something today I'm saying you don't accept the third there's nothing to accept about the third I'm saying that when the third comes he just comes to punish you or to pamper you and take care of you you don't accept it he's coming to sort you out so that's how I understand the third and so your question was a real sealed the problem is the tests haven't finished yet so there's new light coming under the latter rain and it's going to test our understanding or our acceptance of the truths that were brought to view here and what was one of the truths that we brought to view here what happens at 9/11 the church what church are we is the church triumphant so we've been speaking about this for a long time and maybe there's some correction that we need to have in our thinking not in our message because our message was never wrong was our message ever wrong you know sometimes we might suggest that it was but it can't have been wrong you way back in 1818 way back in 91 90 we'd already come to the conclusions the math there aren't any mistakes it its refinement and tweaking but to start thinking about mistakes I think we're protein thing wrong you know from here you're baptized you're righteous and you might we might make an application that its moral we're morally right but I always want to place this on the prophetic level this movement has been right since 9/11 that's what the argument is about the foundation we didn't make any mistakes they could never have been any mistakes because after 9/11 you don't do what you don't sin and sin is wrong and wrong he's a mistake there aren't any mistakes what people are identifying as mistakes I don't think he's I know what a good word to use would be when you're among friends you can use the word mistake because you can use that word loosely but if you want to get technical about it you say mistakes that means you did something wrong and I don't think this movement did anything wrong because if we did we're binding into the theology that's been brought to view here did you go back into her and we made mistakes this movement was sinning here and if you believe that then we don't even have a model to work with so the church clown phone says sister Samira we all still I don't believe we're all sealed because this is the test that's come in and when you say oh I don't dream yume no everybody's watching this video who claim to still be on the right side the next great test is it's already here is the church triumphant how do we conceptualize will the church triumphant is because people have believed the church rampant pops up over here and he can't it has to be over here and even before because you're being baptized if you're thinking about an individual or you're a guest to this church triumphant to this marriage you're a builder or a worker in however you want to conceptualize it so the church function has already begun and the problem is the church triumphant has got we and tears in it which sounds contradictory but when you go back into the stories they all teach the same thing you can clearly see it in the line of Christ you can see it in the line in the middle rights that the church triumphant has people in it who are not right who are organized who need to be part of that organization it happens at the same time and the rejection of that a game will sift out a whole swath of people so I don't think we're all quite sealed yet and I don't know in this room because if I are if I were to go to all of these things I said you'll believe in this and you say yes you'll dissent so I would say oh that means you're all wheat wouldn't it but when the next test comes that's what identifies you the third angel can't identify who you are in some kind of spiritualistic way which is how people portray what what at least I teach and I'm saying it's craziness it's not some kind of spiritualism I can I've got a divining rod and say rubber Richard he's a Terry he looks funny because I asked him question after question he says yeah I agree I agree I agree so I'm saying he must be a weak thing but tomorrow we're gonna bring a test and I'm going to say you need to now be subservient to the movement he's saying I'm not doing that and then I'm going to say I knew he was a tear and now I can prove it because now he's bearing fruit now he's bearing fruit so that's probably part of what I think sister olivine was saying about the first fruit we're not all bearing fruit at the same time and I think that's what she meant which is why I said probably am agreeing with her wasn't sure is that the bearing of the fruit is not he's the first fruit that he can say oh I've sorted myself up I'm outside in a problem and look I'm the super person the bearing of the fruit is in this plate time here everybody's got some hang-up and God has through invent new messages new tests to read out every one and that's what this fruit bearing is you all begin to bear your fruit at a different time and how do you bear fruit when you receive rain because the rain makes you bear fruit yes and the rain is a message and the message even though we've got it here like it rains every day it doesn't really do it it rains in discrete packages so there's a bit of rain then there's a break then there's a bit of rain and there's a break and that rain is a specific message that comes when the message comes then the test comes sister Lissa or that sister olivine and brother Larry then we'll close see the destroyer setting out to destroy Jerusalem cannot be seen in revelation 6 with I might join Lenin being the one on the white horse I'm not sure I'm not sure actually I can understand your question revelation 6 Dorothy as you're pointing or like at first the first hour that came up was the judgment of the living you know like questioning and then before they took they should even finished with the judgment of the living and there's the issue of the second India where does it arrive most of us have not even erupted or readings are on the issue of the where does the second angels message arrive I'm not already I can see that there's an issue a new church triumphant from the camp meeting I hear questions being axed or you can hear or see whole persons are you up to certain message on your life you can see a problem coming without even asking a question if there's a problem you can see the problem I remember I heard somebody asked are you teaching holy flesh and I love that like oh my god did we get there and it is not even and so you can see before one thing it's clear something else it's convenient it's it's coming thicker fog I get you the holy place frequently brother Larry last point right of receiving the former a lettering and the tests that are coming in from those time periods this quote that we read in TM 507 paragraph 1 the last Hargett resist unless we are daily advancing in the implications of the act of fish converge users we shall not recognize the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain this coax Heavenly Father we do thank you for your goodness and mercy but as we begin to individually and as a movement understand the implications of what it means to be in the time of the latter rain we want to ask for grace and strength as we see the work of the third angel beginning to select the wheat and the tares may each of us bow before you recognize and understand the solemnity of that work and how fearful it is and indeed father many of us are fearful of participating and entering into that work lord help each of us to enter into the experience that these reform lines are teaching us and by faith do your will in the precious name of Jesus we pray amen