(10-15-18) Morning - Judgment - (fY0xsUPRygw)

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Publish Date: 10/15/2018
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (10-15-18) Morning - Judgment-fY0xsUPRygw
YouTube ID: fY0xsUPRygw

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I mean so we've finished our document third foundation so this is your opportunity to ask any questions not any questions just the ones that I like if not I want to just talk about some aspects of what's on the board he's asked Larry yesterday you said you were gonna tell us what you thought the building represent but the main point that we went over yesterday yeah 1 SN 207 1/3 you're yeah I think I gave my all to I'm saying that the building or the temple is the foundation no I realized this he's not in agreement with other models that have been presented that that's what I'm saying that the picture work that we had written earth below we had some pillars and then this platform which is arrived at through these three steps I'd say this platform of truth is body of truth that is the completed structure it's it's it's complete it's done that's how why minds then in in the context of what with what we've studied I'm not saying their own ass there are not other models which may have some validity okay so I'm suggesting it was retaken 2014 yet it's a promise okay now because I'm saying we could have some questions because I finished the section from fair foundation I mean they look at this if they're not aren't any questions but if there are any I'm open to field them yep I might act like the platform standing on the pillars is I'm saying just another symbol of this of the temple being completed people just stand up on that platform hang it around writing they being the people standing there are the temple on the platform the difficulty with that is we're increasingly seen there's this distinction between the ark and Noah between the bride and the Virgin's there seems to be to me there's a difference or distinction between the individuals who are guests and the bride which seems to be a symbol of the church or the corporate structure there's this distinction so I'm a bit reticent to say that the people standing on the platform are the church you get a model that the church is built up of lively stones or this temple is so each of the stones of this built upon can be symbolized as people but if you've seen the models that elder jeff has done the Quarrier now of the stones from 89 to 91 had have been symbolized as truths not individuals and then the foundations are the truths upon which I guess we're standing as individuals so I guess I'm saying that the temple is not us who are standing upon that foundation although I think you can build a model for that okay so are there any questions on on this line of which crazy it's for me deceptively simple because it doesn't cause you any problems when you look at that and I think it's because you don't realize the problems that it can cause you it's let me send that one back which is the preparation time and this is the former range so all we've done is we've taken a line from the time at the end time to the end in 1798 1844 and from 1844 what begins standard Adventist teacher what begins in 1844 the investigative judgment so this is the investigative judgment and it's off today and it's going to go from the dead to the living just seamless transition and I'm suggesting that this way mark here would be the living that's on the judgment of the Dead judgement living so we're looking at this that this line here which I've called the line of the final generation adventism the 144,000 saying this line was created from a larger line and I've chosen to go from 1798 1844 and we'll finish the line up in a second 1844 marks the investigative judgment of the Dead he goes to the living and then white says no person knows when the judgment of the living begins this period here is a period of preparation this is the first angels message it's a message that says prepare for the investigative judgment we know that the Millerites didn't do that they took a message from God and they twisted and manipulated it to say something else and what are they saying the same executive judgment is coming here in October 1844 and we read that from Nicholls book yesterday in that footnote of the problems that it caused them it causes them problems pre October and post October because come October the sign that they're looking for hasn't arrived and what sign are they looking for sister Rachel what they're looking for in 1844 October what they expected to happen Bible verse okay so that doesn't happen so people are going to have got two options you know that there's a couple more than two one that may not one of the options is you work out that the event is wrong and you keep the time as it is or you say the event is correct and you're going to start moving that way mark you're going to start adjusting time so it goes from the from the dead to the living I don't think there is an easy way to prove this link I haven't seen one so I'm just saying I'm suggesting that this is the Sunday law when the work of the investigation of the living begins you go to the close of probation and then you go to the second advent we've got these four dispensational time periods the same four that we've got here and we can just plug in the former rain latter rain and harvest which we called the binding off as a sort of a generic term now ellen white isn't i've not found any good quotes that explicitly connect the investigative judgment of the living with the Sunday law I'm explaining that but the rest of it you can you can confine from the spirit of prophecy this concept of the former rain the concept of the latter rain and the concept of the harvest all can be explained and understood from standard ellen white quotes just from her major works mr. Bromley you we used to teach that the investigative judgment of the living began at 9/11 right that's what we've previously taught so what we're going to do is we're going to take this line we're going to make a fractal of it and when we start making a fractal of it what we're going to see is the the work that she's showing us here actually begins before so this is how we this is how I'm going to explain that what was taught in the past the judgment of the living actually begins sometime before this is the final work of that investigative judgment he doesn't all really begin here because we're going to take this as a fractal and bring it to the line of the priests skill of the judgment but when you attract tourism stuff for jean-georges oh yeah yes yes when you do this more scale you use 22 2014 so I'll explain that in a second so all of this put this in parentheses all of this is straight out the Spirit prophecy it's nothing unusual what we've done is we've we've address this this end of the line the beginning part so what we've done is with truncated this not to have a line of Adventism from the Miller right history but to think about the final generation so we go to verse forty Daniel 11 and we connect 1798 to 1989 so once we've done that then we create this other way mark 911 and 911 is going to line up with October 1844 and then we have the line that's shown here preparation for moraine latter rain and harvest and then as I said the last part from the center onwards is the same as we've got here we aren't we aren't learning anything new when we're lining up 1844 and 9/11 what's a few justifications of the problem that we have is but when we talk about a waymarking Miller right history it can have different applications it can be placed when you bring it to our line at different locations so and the reason for that is because October has so many components attached to it now I've said that they give this distorted message the message that they're not supposed to be giving but what we find is all the most makes that the Millerites make they end up in some shape or form being correct or having a correct application here at the end of the world so it's even it's just at that level the structure allows you to line it up so when you go to this history what is October 1844 so one of them is it's going to be the investigative judgment beginning another one is that it's going to be the investigative judgment executive or close of probation would call that Dennis brother Daniel says it's also the terian time and all of these were not making up this is that this is historical fact or a spirit prophesy quote what else can we say about it I can we'll go slow with those three they're enough to for us to deal with so because we've got this terry in time here that's the one that we can tag to bring to 911 as just as that that exalt at that level characteristics for one and say they fit with the other yes any time doing that look like you're gay you usually don't do that yes I don't usually do that okay but to line all this up that's what essentially has being done I think another way to show that somehow it is Singh 911 because just like the latter rain when she talks about the latter rain she's talking about Sunday law we have to create 911 s away mark that company for that so the danger of Revelation 18 talks about the judgment of the living and they have to make this remarkable for somehow it's there if we understand that anybody understand that they didn't understand what you said we talked about that yet so yeah but said back soon and understand its no you have the angel religion 18 commie and if we wrote to this straight spirit of prophecy it's talking about the Sunday law great controversy chapter 38 but as we saw yesterday we have to create a rival let's say like this she's talking about the empowerment but we have to create there arrived and replace this arrival at 9/11 in our life just in our life and you know the age of Revelation 18 is connected with the judgment of the living as well and it's talking about the Sunday law straight Spirit of God spirit of prophecy for but we have to create an arrival in that sign 11 that's the way you can justify it somehow being in the 911 that makes it it made sense but to just say you have to create an arrival and we're sticking in at 9/11 you could argue that that's not enough yes so if we're gonna do what brother Daniel said we've got middle history our history and he's doing this second angels message second angels message this is revelation 18:4 relation 14 it begins here it ends here so would put arrival and the empowerment or executive empowerment so if you go to the Miller write history you're going to look for a to a and A to E and then in our history you're going to have this tui and so you have to you you know that you're searching for something that isn't there I'm going to call it searching for here treasure so the question is where where is that second danger going to be how do you look for it if you don't know to see it then you wouldn't even know how to create a ray mark so that's part of the detective work the problem that we face now is we did this all differently we didn't say let me give an example of that if you can recall some of the work that sister tested we've got 2014 and this is raffia there are two way marks you gave us do remember what they were two dates all she gave us sixteen and I guess we gave her 18 and then she gave it to us or he said this is 18 yeah so if I take that and I do it in the way that we might normally do it this would be 9 11 2014 Sunday law loud cry close approbation raffia so we're suggesting now that this is 2018 if that's 2018 what's 2016 it's a way Marcus an important thing that we've looked at we know that studies are now coming out to pick up the presidential election cycles 2016 go to 2020 so you recall that she suggested I agree that this was Boston this was Concord and this was Exeter so if you don't agree with that you get that logic so what has just happened in front of our eyes we've just created we just create a new way mark when I say we've created one is we haven't created one it was already there from the Miller right line Concord but you know we do never really did anything with that but we're making an application that we're saying 16 is Concord so what we're going to do is we take that history and we bring it to the history post raffia so this is where I guess fractals become complicated so this is raffia pan IAM and 9/11 not 9/11 2014 what way mock is this one Sunday law okay what way mark is this one okay concentration so now it becomes tricky because I could easily say no I could easily say no it's not that I could say it's a number of things so I could say Sunday law I could say that Sunday law remember we did that here said these Sunday laws are bringing us to this Sunday law these aren't Sunday laws these are experiences that we go through that have the same experience that you will go through through a Sunday law which is this loud crack loud cry latter rain experience for different groups of people so we can equally do that so it depends who we're talking about so we'll take that out and we'll say this is the line of the priests and if that's the Sunday law this is the close of probation and this is the second Advent and here you have the loud cry which is that one there and then we've got Concord 2016 so now that we've got that you'll see what she did was pick up the election cycles although she didn't use that language and she's going to go back to a previous history and she's gonna pick up Concord again and if you remember that and this would be 2020 so if we're going to take this and bring it into this one then we've got the loud cry so what we do in is if you the reason why I'm saying this is remember sister Bronwyn's asked the question or it's come up okay we found this to a we know to expect it what dates what event is it we have to start searching for it but you're not going to search unless you know but we never did it that way we just went totally backward but look what we do in now we're not going backward because we can't we don't we're not able to go backwards because we're projecting forwards we're making predictions so we're here we've seen Concord has happened we're now predicting Concord in the future so we've got some bare bones of characteristics we're not sure exactly what it looks like but we're predicting it's going to be here and then we're saying there's going to be a loud cry and then we've got pani um so I'm suggesting would have again to raid marks here and this would be what way mark this one here verse 31 Sunday law so you can see that even though we don't know the details of them we're now having to grapple with this structure of these two way mark the two loud cries we already could have anticipated them but there's this other one that's coming up so all I'm saying is that if we were going to do this I guess properly we would have gone back and try to find what 911 would be what the characteristics of it if it would what of what it would be make a prediction about it and say we expect sometime in the future a B or C that's what we would have done but we didn't do that and we didn't do that because we'll still cutting our teeth on prophecy we're still trying to understand and we use the argument that we're using line upon line methodology in line upon line can be explained a different way line upon line equals history repeats and the argument that we used was we've got to 1989 we see that history is repeating but we need a second witness for that and you don't know that history is repeating until what until it's repeated which means you can only identify a way mark after the event so make sense so 911 has to have been and gone then we look back and we say our history is repeated we now have a confirmation that it's that our methodology is working and that was different to what the Millerites did the Miller rights were had predicted their 911 if you like this was lychees work 1838 he's predicting 1840 whose revelation 9 and we didn't do that so to be able to fully understand what's going to be repeating ahead of us don't we have to be through the entire section let's got those repeats in it before we can predict what's ahead of us I don't know how to say that question we'd have to go all the way through the close of probation second aDNA and our line to have a perfectly accurate model for what's coming ahead okay so difficult to be that is if this is the line the perfect line if you like way back here we were predicting this we were predicting it and the advent is have been predicting this Sunday law here way back from 1844 but with uncertainty but then we come to a time where we say whatever we were talking about the Sunday lore is coming and we don't know when because isn't that what we said we don't know when if you don't know when you don't have time there's no time between 1844 and some some event some way mark come 1989 now we say the Sunday law is coming and we know when now our understand our version of we know when which is time because we're weak frail earing human beings we don't want to step out and say we're going to calculate time because we're still stuck with that those legacy arguments so we say okay we don't know the time but we know we're there we know the events this generation shall not pass we now know where the final generation so we used different logic different tacks to say essentially the same thing that from the time of the end this 1989 the Sunday law is going to be here and win the final movements and the strongest argument that we had was that we went to a Bible verse verse 40 and said the next verse is the Sunday law and you know we didn't say by the way that next verses 30 plus years away but don't worry about that because we can't we can't do that yeah we couldn't we didn't want to we're not even allowed to you know to stretch things out far into the future it would it would take all the the potency out of your message having said that that's exactly what the Millerites had done then when they first start preaching the first dangers message they're saying in 25 years this events going to happen but that's in 1818 and Miller isn't preaching is he it's not publicly speaking in 1818 he still waits the number of years when is he publicly speak okay so we've got the 31 but I want to pick the 33 when he gets his credentials because if you go from 33 to the end that his marking how many years is that 10 years and that makes 1833 war the first day of the seventh month because he's predicting the tenth day of the seventh month in ten years so this is the this is Jeff this is the call to prepare it's a ten year warning that he's been given the ten year warning that he is giving not he's been given he's giving and we've got 79 to 89 we can see that there's now talk from 2011 to 2021 ten years we've got 2004 to 2014 10 years 2001 to 2011 10 years so this 10 year is coming up in our line so the searching out of 9/11 it's difficult to undo our own history it was sort of introduced as I said all of us know how we how we go about doing 911 we the event happens we see radical Islam rising once the charts come up we see radical Islam on the chart is a component of Miller right history so we have that information first row second row third row we have 1840 now coming to view the restraining of radical Islam so we had that and then we had all of those spirit prophecy quotes Testament church vol 9 review and Herald article 1906 and those ones begin to give us the actual events of the bringing down of the towers and once you have that then you have revelation 18 coming in and so that's how 9/11 was constructed but if we were to approach it today we would have to approach it this way we'd have to look at all the characteristics can you imagine how difficult that is people have know people have said pointed out okay sister testers done raffia she's giving this 2019 even though she didn't say explicitly if you remember and how he characteristics have we got they're really hard strong characteristics obviously none because no one's saying anything so I just brought a question mark it's not it's not that weak there were some characteristics but it's risky business predicting so if we had been here and did our due diligence and gone to the second angel create all these structures line upon line within understand about fractals I don't know even how we'd go about doing that accurately but justly what would we have predicted about 9/11 it becomes a really difficult task so he after that you can really see things so to answer I think what sister Brahmans question is how do you know it's 9/11 that we're looking for when we had that to weigh and my answer is it's it's miraculous we ever got there really if we if we had stuck with methodology I don't think it would have worked and that's the argument or the the perspective of what he did to see from that document yesterday and more the last couple of days is to see without divine intervention we will all these voices saying this or saying that and who would have known is that what what's up with now we're here having these discussions about what is Raffy you look like and we've got all these inputs coming in not even with respect to the event believe them with respect to the date people are saying 2019 maybe 2020 maybe another day how do we know which one's correct who's gonna be the steadying voice the voice of authority that says this is the right answer because in this history back here back here this history pre 2014 we had that steadying voice it just it just did this is though this is the answer with everybody just thread into line particularly with that 911 event can you imagine if we were in a roundtable discussion like this and we say what's that event that's about to happen that's going to mark the former rain the to a that we're looking for to a is Babylon is fallen how do we ever worked out that that was 9/11 I mean how'd you get the Babylon is fallen is not any level and how does that even work it's I think it's I don't think we would have been that mad we would have managed it and this is the problem that we're that we're having now people are watching presentation so you know that looks good or I've got some crews on this I don't know how that's gonna get resolved can't do that now we're in a different we're done invention her mind is unblocked now we're on methodology exactly that's what I'm saying now all of us have got we got to deal with methodology if that hell doesn't there how we going to straighten that out how are we going to come to a consensus position because before it was relatively easy we had this servant of God standing up was Ain this is it and people would come and argue and they're just their arguments you just get wiped away wouldn't they you know relatively easily people couldn't see the flaws in our argument even it was kind of hidden from them just like Miller right history and now it's all it's not that straightforward it's all a bit exposed so I don't know how we're going to resolve this but all I'm saying is that we can see we're faced with with this problem we've got way marks coming up we know that they're there we know they're there before we've even finished our history but we don't have the details of them and so you remember this concept of the special prophecies as they're being fulfilled and you're walking over the ground of their fulfillment that's when the things open up to you brother fear does introducing that concept in a in a firm way not just sort of sort of like a nebulous idea to explain some of the things that we're talking about here pree raffia but if this is true we won't even have all the details until we get to that time period even though we're predicting it so just if you think about it that way at 9/11 you can't predict it until you're in that history when the prophecy is being fulfilled we can go back now in with me you know we've got lots of arguments the main argument that I would bring up is 9/11 you've got time now you could put a time component on to that using the twenty five twenty through do those calculations I'll just put time there okay so we've gone through that this is the former rain when the latter rain comes then the dynamics change now it's public evangelism this would be Pentecost this is where all the disciples have been together for those ten days ten days of preparation then days of testing everyone's come together and it's what we're all fully onboard so we come back to our line and we've said this is 1989 and 9/11 yeah ten days here before you come to Pentecost before you can do publican bang oh yeah so the other thing I want us to remember is this harvest gonna go to Matthew 13 they're going to grow together until the harvest and in the harvest both are going to be reaped both wheat and tares and I'm arguing at this scale the wheat and tares are God's church whatever symbol you want to give them and the world everyone that's left they're going to be burnt in in bundles and the others are going to go to the heavenly garner any questions on that okay it's not don't feel don't feel you can't ask we had these three-way marks here and these are those three Sunday laws that need you up to this Sunday law which is the fractals of the priests Levites and Nathan Eames sorry I know that causes people problems so then II buddy have any questions of where we go what they want us to talk about now you can you can decide whether you want to talk about this or nothing but I still have questions about the judgement of the living because somehow there are two things we we look back to the doctrine that we've established three 2014 we say they were through divine revelation and we say there were correct but maybe not you know explain great we say their election applications not that the primary application is actually different right is can we say the same thing about the doctrine of the channel terminating or do we say well that one is actually playing mainly wrong because where we discuss about 911 we say well that's just an application when we talk about 1913 my sketches 411 that's an application and complete or perfect fulfillment the primary application is it a Sunday long can we say the same thing about the judgment and the rating or is it different a different story I'm not sure I fully understand the question but I'll attempt to alter it what what I mean is because we say what we use to teach is actually correct you know but just in an application format is it the same with judgment of the living his judgment of the living begins on a level correct in an application format or is it just wrong so even that an application format let me try answer it this way let's go to a person and we're going to go to Abel so I draw the line of Abel here so Abel I say he's born here literally he's literally born here and here he's born again he's spiritually born and then he's gonna die and then what happens after his death we have 6,000 years of gap and then what happens his book is opened and this is what day are we okay with that idea when you die and what happens to time is right there is no type time II no longer so this six thousand years doesn't really exist yeah so we'll take the six thousand years out and I'll extend that line here and so here on October 22nd he dies could we do that he died here I mean after that the judgment yes so he died here but this is October twenty seconds instead of putting this back here I just moved out there and he mess around in that picture work okay with that reasoning he died here six thousand years ago six thousand years just gets collapsed into a moment of time because the dead know not anything and I tried didn't I spoke over you sorry well it's given unto man once to die and after that the judgment yes that's what happens okay so the primate makings when you died there is no time you happy you you get judged straight away essentially so make sense in real life it's not it's six thousand years of being sort of held in this place so we're going to at this point here we don't know there's very little information on his story on his life so we can know as I assume some things do some guesswork he gets he gets converted here and when you get converted what happens it with your relationship between you and God with respect to all your sin problems you don't know that you're done sin all this time three goats brush so you're gonna start fresh so I put start anew so you have a brand new start cuz you're born again so all of this what happens to it when I say this all of this sin or baggage if I will if I can call it baggage wait where does a symbol of baggage come from so the narrow vision you've got all this baggage you've got these carts and then you're also here and then at the gate shade sister Cathy you said so pilgrims progress does that for you can we see that Ellen White's first vision and pilgrims progress is a two different models but there's like they have they do have some similar characteristics to them so sin baggage we've got pilgrims froze up let's put that in parentheses so this sin this baggage what happens to it right so it goes on this book how'd it get on the book okay so all of this all these sins that you're doing they get written on this book so where you going to start the book here and this book looks like what when you start white white CLE because you just born so here after 20 years or 20 days not literally 20 days because you know he works that with babies this is just full of stuff so what's going to happen here so it is all going to sit in way anyone else you tell me I don't know I'm asking the question what happens to all of this stuff here this old on this book I'm confused actually because I was thinking that again to do it in the symbol of what we're trying to do when you because I only use the word judgment okay so me with respect that's a clean book and then so this is a clean book would you say brother Daniel I would say the same you're born again but I don't know this about me what's the point of the judgment just the back bad guys though he's a good guy all the good guys that have got their books already cleaned up they don't need to enter into the judgment and their books are already fixed up defend yourselves let's sort of look at there's no words in there that's how I visualize it but probably wrong okay so would you begin the judgment here I think in the judgment on October okay here this is the Tamina last year yeah places yeah and I think we came to the conclusion that there are two blotting out and we found even the Bible verse but I can't remember the Bible words so what why find surprising is we've got this reformed line I'm not surprised actually and he also seems relatively straightforward and it's all about this latter rating investigated judgments and things but when we come to sort of the nuts and bolts of it what we don't have clarity and precision about how this judgment actually works people have got different ideas and one of the things yet I don't think is actually that straightforward we have we have this nebulous idea that when you sin you get things put on the books and then we have this idea about the day of atonement we have this idea about this sanctuary system that the blood gets transferred from here to here and it's on this holding pattern until the day of atonement and the older blood gets removed part to escape let's we have all those ideas but all I want to do is just put it on to the line of a human being and we'll all sort of like ground to a halt just at the very beginning we even before you even get to back down here so does anybody have any thoughts sister Carol I just wondering that first at your talking as I say of 4422 I haven't gone down as a thick cloud thy transgressions and isaiah 44:24 that's interesting that bracelet okay I'll read that out let's just I you read out just for the audio in the camera because sometimes it's easier when people are listening you're saying this is the verse that sister Tamina is referring to I assume that's what you're saying I have blotted out as a thick cloud and I transgressions and as a cloud thy sins return unto me for I have redeemed thee so sister Romney where'd you place 4422 we've already begun to create a lie the this is always tricky because I've sort of creating this line in front of you and as soon as I create a line you're you and you're now focus like I'm channeling you into this line directing you not channeling directing being trouble where would you put 44:22 you want to put it here this is the caraway you want to put it 9/11 I guess I don't know you haven't got that up there but okay I'll do that if you were if you like now what cool it 9/11 I suppose that could because we all know it's late I guess so I put 9/11 here then cuz you're born again baptized Osama said that so you wanna put 4422 here October 22 1844 it's a very tag that's what it would put 9/11 there so they want to do that so I'm gonna take that out that's the name that's the Nate not them in as well so we've got 44 22 what is 44 22 one word or two words this is the blotting out I was a little be overt that was that would send this into a spin so this is the blotting out so which one is correct the blotting out is here or the blotting out is here okay so it would go with this one what's being plotted out in all of this is getting blocky down so when something gets blotted out what happens to it where's it gone right to the sanctuary so he's gone into the sanctuary it's not gone because there's a record of it in there which is what just a Brahmin argument is you stop playing with this sin and getting rid of it there's no record there's no record then what you're doing back here that was your initial point yeah so I'm trying to explore what do we mean by blotting out does it means transfer or does it mean blotting out because this blotting out as I understand it just reading this it says I've blotted out as a thick cloud which means I can't see them anymore go to the sanctuary is that assigned to a particular name of the person who did it and in that regard is that blotted out still I'm saying yes because we've got a transfer from you know a curtain model this is a curtain to a watt model to a book model so your scene is put over here that's wrong come so your sin is here but your sin is here and whether you've got your own book or a page in the book I'm not making that argument this is you identifiable because it's your your name is here that's your name so that target here is it goes out to you as an individual so this one here must be you it's not seen in a generic sense it's targeting you different I think is different symbology when talking about book one something about that's a oddly simplistic system what I think I'm buying out I think of Christ's blood is covered over that sin and I relate that when I'm driving in sick flop thick fog the road is blotted out and I can't see the road so I think of our sins covered by the blood of Jesus okay so I'll put Jesus's blood to here then and what's his blood doing you say it's blotting it out so is that like a rubber like an eraser like the road is there but it's covered by a thick sheet of fog so can anybody see f up so there's no work there's no more record of it ever colored I I'm just wanna explore when you say cupboard does that mean it's like dented Bible you can read through the cover or it's just obliterated now you can't discern it or ever say that it was there I'm just trying to understand what we think blotting out means I know that they know your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow early be crimson I forget about you so that's what this will be as wall so there's some sort of ideology that it's clean but yet I pictured always our pages just bloody somewhere he's just looking you through the blood that was my next question is when you write this in the book what color is the ink and then when it gets over covered with the blood what color is the blood because you just told me the color is white so you end up says to me like you have seen this blank page okay so what if bloody now is blotting out that when you come to this stage here you have a clean book or brand-new clean and all the sins that you did here maybe we could call in the sins of our youth not even they you mean you could be 60 who doesn't mean just this is the what why would you call it the sins of the of our youth what's the definition of youth by the way I'm sure not mature I want to give another definition that's the correct proper definition in experienced so that's the same one so you won't know what I'm thinking about I'm going to say it in the mind of Ellen White which she often talks about the youth it's it would be a young person but if someone who's not married because everyone gets married while they're young in Ellen White say so all the youth are people who in experience and not married so I'm saying it's someone who's not married so that's why I say the sins of our youth before we got married because here we're going to get married before you get married you can't commit adultery by the way you could argue that you can commit fornication but afterwards you can you make your vows here everything gets there's a distinction between this hits this dispensation and the one before it's irregular well isaiah 43:25 says i even i and he that brought a thought by transgressions for my own sake and will not remember those so you're not gonna it's not going to remember the sins so we're doing the port 4325 here or here you want to put it here this is the Carroll once the I'm guessing is gonna put it here verse of another verse okay as far as this is our Psalms 103 verse 12 as far as the east is from the west so far hath he removed our transgressions from I don't know where you put it I'm questioning whether or not we read we are to draw a reference from the sanctuary model or we're looking at this in a vacuum Paul it's you a question I don't know I'm just questioning well if we're gonna say that the books are a symbol of the curtain said I guess it's not in a vacuum when I'm the booth just like the curtain was I did I back here somewhere do you wanna make a comment on that if we're not doing it in a vacuum that well then I think the sanctuary would provide us the answers you have an answer after brother Phillip I'll give you some 20 ml of your odds that I start having the impression that we are combining two lines at different scales yeah tell me the one line we have a person online it'll be other line the other one is the big line little sanctuary model and I think tell me where the century model is here what I I have a tendency to think because he is first dead and then he is living in a spiritual sense in his life he has first the judgment of the dead and the judgment of the living you could say and then the big sanctuary Brian is dead it's like that I don't know because and I would say that yes that the plotting out and the 911 of the person of mine no I don't live in out 911 he's the same as he's literally able yeah his conversion okay yeah there he sins are blotted out just the same as would be brother dr. dr. Burton here yes okay so it's it that I think who you want to give you I appreciate that he's input because it sounds similar to some of the thoughts that I understood back home that the morning and evening sacrifices there are certain sacrifices dedicated to the obliteration of personal sins while the day of atonement was a sign of it to the nation itself so as he said you have the individual level at looking at it and you also have the okay so you're saying the day of atonement here he's not dealing with your individual record Israel as what about what other white would say case after case he's gonna get addressed but she's still identified as a group of people God's people okay so what happens here to all of these sins we know they're forgiven what happens to them you transfer to the sanctuary so all these things here are transferred to the sanctuary in the Jewish model I denote these a table did you or not in this model are they that's why I asked you for using the sanctuary model we're looking at it outside of the sanctuary okay so your reference so in this reference what happens to them because either maybe I don't understand attention model well but you know this is a real person goes through this these two phases what happens all these sins that they that person did the sinking you picturing on the board this and what happens to those sins that's what I'm asking I'm not sure because in sight if I'm using the sanctorum model they're transferred to the sanctuary by financing another part of the sanctuary model I don't know because that's my reference point for these things okay so you're saying in real life eyeball things got transferred to the sanctuary here all these things that he did I'm choosing the time you say it doesn't work I've given up that person today if you like and then there was a sanctuary there so it wouldn't make any difference it's gonna be line upon line are you saying what I want to know is a dose since transferred to the sanctuary or they not transferred to the sanctuary but if the sanctuary if a sanctuary has to be utilized with evil it has to be the heavenly scent okay I'll put another night brother ex sister why three thousand years later there's a sanctuary if I'm not probably make that point I just want to know a decent transfer to the sanctuary or they already dealt with in a different way the whole purpose of the Day of Atonement is to cleanse the sanctuary the sanctuary from the sins that have been transferred there you know also my question my question was not the transfer or the tens of sanctuary I'm asking what happens to these sins here are they transferred to the sanctuary to be dealt with later on before they live with me to you has been freed from that baggage it's just been borne by someone else very you say something I was just wondering um they may not have had a central earth but I still had the alters and isn't that that yeah I wasn't trying that's why that's why I backed out of that issue whether thought you got sanctuary or not you have that best of all or that feast that to me that is that that is a red herring it's not the point that I thought I want is to see so one know what happens to this sin does it get transferred in this holding place or does it get dealt with bread theater yeah breaking for a walk I have a comment so here we are a bunch of seventh-day Adventists who believe that the judgment of the Dead began over 27 1844 we don't understand the slightest thing about the judgment what it is and that maybe isn't that confusing you know it may seem odd at first but part of the problem is we have so many different ideas that we've been barded with bombarded with in Adventism about sin and what it is and what judgment means that it's understandable we're confused right yeah yeah okay so you know and we keep relating this to the sanctuary and and some of them don't even make sense to me what people are saying because whether the sanctuary exists or doesn't exist on earth we know that God has always dealt with us from heaven so the sins have to be dealt with when Jesus came there wasn't a different way of salvation that came about God didn't deal with sin in a different way and to God times in material so those sins have to be transferred to the sanctuary at some point and the question is when when does our sins not in the in the ultimate sense of time but what happens when we sin who's bearing those sins that's the thing we have to look at we're kind of getting confused by this some of the ideas going around in our head regarding and we're cautious because we don't want to get trapped by you that's a radical what do you think happens to this thing here bears those sins once we go to Christ those sins are transferred to him once okay and they can't be you know we can talk about it you know his his blood covers them or whatever so they transferred to him yeah I then walk he's gonna transpose into the sanctuary yes okay so Anthony you say Christ Christ is is so those sins big ones you're saying they're going to be transferred to the sanctuary here okay because there's two things so there's one is we have our sins and that record of sins that's being kept is the sins that we have in our lives and we're bearing those sins right now those sins are then once we confess those sins Christ takes those sins from us now the question you're asking about whether they're still recorded somewhere I mean obviously the they still have existed in the past and they can when we can even if we were converted if we rip you repent from our conversion those sins will be remembered again right so at some point they're ultimately dealt with there's got there's gonna be a time in history when all the sins will have been forgotten completely of the righteous there we can we're not gonna be thinking about our past sins God's not going to be thinking about them so the question that we're dealing with we're kind of dealing with two different questions when I confess my sins to God those sins are forgiven and I'm starting with a blank page but there still is a record of those sins that has to be dealt with they're still as a judgment that's going on and that's what seventh-day Adventists contend and that's why other churches think we're heretical because they say well those sins were blotted out when you were converted and God doesn't remember them as far as the East is from the West those how far those sins are you know from him and wrong those people are wrong a maaske no they're not wrong but they're wrong in a certain sense so they're they're crazy they say it's done present taste right you're saying that's wrong yeah I'm saying that their idea of what actually that means is wrong yes so they're wrong what that actually means they're correct in that event but in a practical sense it's true now for me when God's forgiven me I don't have to think about that sin and worry about it hanging over my head that's been forgiven but there is a time when God ultimately deals with sin and that's still future it's okay there those sins are transferred to the sanctuary but then at the end they'll be transferred to the scapegoat okay threatenings the white garments the righteousness of Christ he gives us his white garments and we give them the red one and it takes you the sanctuary so it's just still there honey just because we know that the scenes are in the sanctuary give the day of atonement so somehow they are there okay sister a minute two things tell me when I'm on with the model you have up from there I suggest that on October October 1844 when he opened the books there the life of Abel's checked from when he is born again that is that book and then I think there is when he is born again his sins were blotted out he has a clean sheet because he's a newborn baby and a newborn baby has a clean sheet and those sins from beforehand the baggage I believe this transfer done Satan okay so I would suggest this is the Tamiya type compared on this numerous times what he said that what she's suggesting I would suggest that this history here and I had some questions but I really got a few minutes left so I'll tell you what I think then you can Mull on this all these scenes here are actually blotted out they're not transferred to the sanctuary they're actually taken on by Christ through a transfer he says okay I will take your sin and you take my righteousness and the wages of sin is death so when he died for your sins all those sins they got dealt with they didn't get transferred to the sanctuary all of this pre Christianity so post Christianity Jesus says I'm not going to bear those sins doe sins are going to be have to dealt with in a different way so once this book is cleaned and you walk through this history here then you've got this record of sin and this sin is from this point to this point and every time you say sorry he says okay we'll let you off you say sorry for that sin we'll just put it in this holding pattern here and we'll deal with it in another way because someone has to pay for that sin so there's all this sin that's been recorded here which is now going to be checked and if there is a sin that you didn't ask for forgiveness for it's you're going to be held accountable for that and if you did ask forgiveness for it Dury you're going to be relieves or the punishment for that sin but someone has to pay the price for that sin and who's that going to because it's not going to be Jesus Jesus already paid for the sins here and I'm suggesting that the person who pays for the sins here is Satan or the scapegoat so I don't if that's a sanctuary mode Laurel standalone but I think all the sins that are spoken about here are blotted out they're not addressed in the sanctuary service or sanctuary system so I kind of have some empathy with these evangelical zhh when they do that even though they don't understand the whole process and I know many of you probably don't agree with that model but that's that's how I understand what's been addressed here and the reason why I think this is fundamental to to get straight or to get right it's because it has implications when we come to our line and when we start making that noise 11 and when we talk about the judgment of the living when do we actually talked about that living is happening so the reason I'm are I'm addressing this is because brother finishes asking me a question about mistakes or literal or something and I'm saying Sunday law here is judgment of the living then he said or I think brother Dan you said hold on a minute I've done some trickery because that's 2014 judgment of the living and then what about 9/11 which we used to say judgment of the living so was that all wrong that's this question is this wrong if this is correct how does that work so I'm saying to me it's this answers that question that when we pick up the judgment of the living here at 9/11 what we picking up we talk about a testing a testing work begins why would we not tested before why we not tested in 1989 why do we always say you the testing begins at 9/11 because I'll say in a simple way because we're not born yet we don't even exist and when you're born you start with a blank sheet of paper because everything before that has been wiped away clear which is what I'm suggesting here and what we were marking from 9/11 to 2014 is the filling up of this book and then in 2014 what begins to happen is this work of investigation what we would call the investigative judgment there's record taken and there's investigation this is the record taken this is where I begin to not understand what's going on because if I were to ask you what's Abel's it is Abel saved or not saved as he passed or failed and my question is how do you even know that because you were not in heaven in October 1844 to be part of those thousands upon 10 thousands of books were open then the judgment was set how did you know what the answer to his life was whether it was passed or failed when you weren't there because it tells us in a Bible when the Bible was written thousands of years before this event even happened so what's they even what's even the point of opening the book did you already know the answer to because everybody could see the record of his life he already knew the answer because when an angel right sent writes all your information down all these people are looking and they say we know where this is headed when he gets to his end we already know what the answer is so just at that humanistic level this just becomes a formality now obviously there's much more involved about the investigative judgment these books being open than just that that formality there's something more about it so it's not just about we already know the answer to his case because by 2014 when the investigative judgment begins if we're going to get this and power the litter here you would know the answer to your case if you're going to mark this it's already done and dusted but there's this formality about the reading of the book that I think there are some subtle differences between the judgment and ed and judgment is living but there is also some similarities and I'm pretty sure that not everybody agrees with this concept of blotting out here that it's not held on record everything before I don't think it's held on record the record taking or the things that's held on file in your book is this history when you're in the kingdom of heaven because now you're now you're subject to laws and conditions of God in you weren't before this is why I think we mark the mark the testing beginning at nine eleven not before the agricultural model I think doesn't work in in this way that your heart needs to be purified and cleansing it you have a new heart it's the new heart that's been checked and recorded in this book it's not the old heart okay with two minutes over but people have got some questions or some thoughts mr. baumann you had your hand up before no this is swelling you had your hand up well I was just remembering that from from a presentation last year about I didn't understand about what happened to those sins to make the book claim but it occurred to me that were cleansed so when something is cleansed it's all washed away and then I remembered the presentation last year about how after the book is cleansed and then from then on those are the sins that are put on Satan of the scapegoat that's exactly so from just to clarify from born again to October to death yeah our sins are even though under God's law our sins are still blotted up with the blood of Christ right dico forgiven next to them but he doesn't he doesn't pay for those sins someone help someone has to pay for them I've my understanding of the sacred modernism the person who pays is the state goat he just gets held someone else had their hand out Oh brother Jason so the model right there so before you're a Christian before you decide to become Christian or whatever you're saying all your sins are blotted out and the books are clean microfiber waited till I was 260 you came into the message or whatever you're saying everything before that is clean or you're saying this that's why understanding yet okay pre-christian even after you decide you want to be pretty and whatnot then it's recording did you're saying yeah potato um in the great controversy in the chapter at the time of trouble Ellen White says had not Jacob previously repented of his sin in obtaining the birthright by fraud God would not have heard his prayer and mercifully preserved his life so in the time of trouble if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish they would have been overwhelmed despair would cut off their faith and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance but while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness they have no concealed wrongs to reveal their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out and they cannot bring them to remembrance what does this mean do we have a study tomorrow that you're gonna explain to me that I was just gonna suggest that this what we just talked about and that the blotting out and stuff like that is a part why it's so important to reconsider to consider baptism I'll just say this when just picking up that story Jacob e77 when he goes to Bethel and if you see his I mean he's been deceiving his brother tricking his dad going into this secret alliance with his mother for decades and God doesn't do anything to him he just treats him nicely once he confesses and he's born again and I'm gonna say enters into the kingdom of heaven what happens to him from virtually day one for the rest of his life he gets trouble and the trouble is based upon his crimes of his youth beforehand and so this deception is going to get turned around and put upon him over and over again to test him so you can see clearly in his life the testing begins at baptism it doesn't get tested before so it doesn't answer the question that you were asked him but I just wanted to make that observation about this issue about testing at 9/11 I think can be really clearly shown in his life let's go here pray Heavenly Father we want to give you praise and thanks for your goodness we want to ask that you would give us the wisdom and the knowledge to understand how the century model works how the investigative judgment really operates not only in a theoretical sense but also in our own personal lives as we try to address the subject of the judgment and what it means to each of us individually and corporately and how we place these thoughts and ideas upon a line help us throughout this day to honor and glorify you we ask for a special blessing upon the food that we're to eat and all these things we ask and pray for in Jesus His name I mean