(10-11-17) - Parables - (LmZSD5mOgWk)




Publish Date: 10/11/2017
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (10-11-17) - Parables-LmZSD5mOgWk
YouTube ID: LmZSD5mOgWk



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I think we read this yesterday I just want to reread it education page 14 paragraph ball edy 14.4 then a kind of the paragraph I'll pick up from the beginning the paragraph in order to understand what is comprehended in the work of Education we need to consider both the nature of man and the purpose of God in creating him we need to consider also the change in man's condition through the coming in of a knowledge of good sort of coming in of a knowledge of evil and gods Panthers still fulfilling his glorious purpose in the education of the human race so we spoke about this yesterday what is this knowledge that's been referred to here talks about a knowledge of evil sorry it's experiential knowledge it's not intellectual knowledge you really had all the intellectual knowledge before he knew what was going to happen if he disobeyed it also understood about what he was allowed to do with what he was not allowed to do he also knew what had happened in heaven there's very little that he didn't know just like us we know intellectually the terms of conditions of all the Covenant and what the Krait controversy is about what's happened and what is happening and what is to happen but this he's talking about an experience here we read that and the other one that we read was testimonies of the church volume 1 page 300 paragraph 1 it's 1 to 300 point 1 103 301 to 300 paragraph 1 the only safety now is to search for the truth is revealed in the Word of God as the hid treasure now we talked about hid treasure over and over again what does he treasure mean James that found in the Bible what about if I said that they weren't hidden by saying there's revealed in the Word of God as treasure it's underneath the surface what does that mean superficial reading right requires work you have to search for it will even treasure it's not hidden what we found it today it's not even once you've found it okay so it's not hidden once you found it but before you found it it's hidden so he's everything in the Bible hidden all the treasures in the Bible all hidden not all hidden some hidden and some are not hidden so what's hidden parables parables so we talked about in the back present truth would they have a a component or pattern with respect the hidden truth hidden treasure sorry what would that have to do with it but this is the secrets the secret of secrets and they hidden the mystery of godliness got that Matthew 13 35 I think it says it but talks about things are hidden from the foundation of the world that's the opening the prophecies so Matthew 13 35 let's read that 34 and 35 million Matthew 13 35 but it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Prophet saying I will open my mouth in parables I will utter things which has been kept secret from the foundation of the world why is that important brother Jason this is why this verse important back in 1335 what happens in 1335 universe I love you talking - you're hurt but the he gives understanding something that we kept secrets home and that's the understanding of does it say that he gives understanding of things that were kept secret from the beginning is that is that what it says okay he's gonna speak those things never you said you say what did you just say you got remember easy effect what did he just say no what did he just say he's going to reveal the things that were kept secret does the verse side he's going to reveal things that kept that were kept secret you saying yes okay he's gonna after things that were kept secret he's gonna revealed them though it's talking I'm just I'm just checking how we reading the verse I'm not saying he's wrong not yet okay so why why is it 1335 that's what I wanted to ask where does 1335 take you know where does 1335 take you know it is 1335 take years now we weren't living 100-plus years ago well is 1335 take you sorry it's 911 so every agree with its 911 does anybody disagree okay 1335 takes you to 1843 yes 13:35 where does it take you to in 1843 right April the 18th yeah 1812 the 12th there's any such because I could do that and then the next day is the 19th yes the 19th and I'm gonna do this wrong 19th of the 4th 18th of the 4th that's better I think yeah 1843 goes into 1844 we all agree with that so do we understand why it's 9/11 first of the first month does everybody agree with that so it makes sense so what happens at 9/11 diverse for other things which have been kept secret from the phone okay I think you said you have to read verse 34 as well so what are the things that going to be uttered now that is this parables you know I guess we always want to jump to make you prophesy all these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables and without a parable spake he not unto them that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Prophet saying I will open my mouth in parables I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world so he's going to be speaking something that's was kept secret from their foundation so from the beginning what's being spoken from the very beginning parables committees that how we read that from the very beginning God was speaking in parables and now he's going to use the same methodology again yes Matthew 13 what part of his ministry is this if we went to I think it's verse 1 I think it's verse 1 although 34 says without a parable spake he not unto them yeah I don't think we'll get it we'll get it quite in verse 1 which part of his ministry is this do we know it's in Galilee do we know that yeah we'd have to be the first year of Jesus ministry because so you think he's the first year is ministry so let's just do that then so Jesus is going to minister for three and a half years there's the half one two three 27:31 so where do we think he is where are you saying here okay anyone else what what what event happens here yeah we'll get there yeah what what you vent is this what event is this okay this is Passover so this is Passover Passover and Passover so what event is this John John chapter John chapter 2 yeah go 17 to 20 John to 20 yeah begins the work of restoration first temple cleansing so in this six-month period he's going to have his wilderness temptation he's going to begin to gather his disciples he's going to go to the marriage of Cana and then he's going to make his way to Jerusalem here so this is 28 29 30 31 three and a half year ministry so this parable teaching isn't in this year it's little bit after 29 but I'll put it in this period here I'll just write mark it here and he's moose where is he ministering in this history right okay it's in Judea and he moves from Judea to Galilee this is his Galilean ministry so he only begins to first preach parables in Galilee if you go and check all the all the all these parable teaching it begins here and if you read the drive desire of Ages commentary on Matthew 13 and even if you read the the actual commentary itself the verses itself it says in verse 34 all these things spake Jesus unto multitude in parables and without a parable spake he not unto them so now he's going to start teaching you parables this is the Sermon on the by the sea yeah he's only surely spoken one parable before this do we know where that is Sermon on the Mount Matthew five do you know what parable is that it's the sinking sand and the rock where you build your house you rather build in the sand on houses to Val D it's the only parable he does before this word after this he's always gonna speak in parables why is he gonna speak in parables now because he didn't speak in parables here and the white comments on that we're not gonna take the time to show you that but you can demonstrate he doesn't speak in parables here the reason I'm asking a question is because in verse 35 it says I will after things which you've been kept secret from the foundation of the world and so I think brother Richard said he's going to start revealing those things you've been kept secret so the the whole purpose of all of this is to reveal stuff so I want to suggest that it's not the reason the reasons the reason he starts speaking in parable is not to reveal stuff but it's totally opposite it's not to reveal things it's actually to make them all secret because here in Judea when he starts preaching is he using parables why would he not use parables okay if you know if you're not using parables what you're using plain speech Brody Johnson just normal language so here he's just going to use normal language and who's he preaching to in Judea the leadership when he speaks first of the leadership it's in plain simple language and the reason he moves from Judea to Galilee is why persecution his ministry is finished in he's done and dusted with the leaders now he's going to go to a different class yesterday we spoke about the leadership was bypassed before his birth stupid question but why is he dealing one year of his ministry with the leadership when he already knows this is so you can't get me to say yes it was oh I don't know he said I was gonna go into that I don't need anybody else here I just said there so he speaks to the leaders then he's gonna switch from speaking to the leaders now he's gonna go to Galilee and now he's only gonna speak in parables why is he doing that so before we answer that question sister taste you wanted to take her somewhere Psalm 78 so all we want to pick up as you're turning there you took you go to Psalm 78 he says that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Prophet so you need to go to whatever prophet he's referring to more often we're often declined which says prophet to go where normally Isaiah Martin than not or Ezekiel somewhere but the prophet that he's referring to now is in the Book of Psalms and it's not normally considered a prophet when he speak spoken about that so he Psalm 78 so why did you want to take us there okay so rich verses okay so I'll go from verse 2 I will open my mouth in a parable I will utter dark sayings of old which we have heard and known and our fathers have told us we have not hid them from our from their children 3 I'm sorry we will not hide them from our children showing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord and his strength and his wonderful works that he hath done anymore so besides give this a reference why did you want to take us here then we really get that can ever even our cars can't even hear you everybody at the front can you please turn around and speak backwards because they can't hear you when your voice is reflected from the front and you speak too quietly can you turn around and shout and tell us what why we going to Psalm 78 son can we see Psalm 78 is what he's referring to so that you know that's fair enough go again but turn around I'm going to bring people to the front so what it's teaching us is that they've won even things other things that their fathers are knowing he's pointing them back to the old path and in verse 8 the purpose is that they are workers gardener who values is that if father had been and rejected everybody get that's important as well yeah I was gonna get to verse six everybody does everybody understand what the point he's making oh god I think they understand the point you're making can use make it simple what's the point okay so he's tall he's telling them when he gets here two gallon he starts speaking in parables he's telling them things that they were already supposed to know do they already know those things sorry okay the dead rejected them it so we just wanna make sure this forgetfulness is malicious it's not it's not like accidental it's directed God's church are culpable in what's going on at least it wasn't my mistake I'm not saying that I'm not saying people at General Conference sit down and scheme this thing a can we deceive everybody but they go along following a plan which is satanic they just buy into it that's what I mean by malicious I'm not talking about schemers then we had this one point because I always have this issue if you go to most concern conservative Pete Adventist they claim to fame often is that the reason the church is such is in bad condition because who runs our church Jesuits yeah isn't this what they'll always teach you yeah the Jesuits have infiltrated the church and that's why we're in such a mess because the Jesuits have got a scheme or a plan haven't they yeah they are malicious do we believe that Jesuits have taken control of our church like like one of them who worked his way up the ranks and became a clean member and has influenced it so most people are saying how do you know that cannot be true how do you know it cannot be true who are the Jesuits an order of Babylon they're the order of Babylon so you need to go back into the Old Testament scripture and find what you have to find some Babylonians becoming high-ranking officials in the Church of God and I would just challenge anybody anybody to find one instance where you get that the closest place you get is when the Samaritans get involved what what history is that that's Ezra Nehemiah history and what do they do straight away get rid of them yeah so you can see some influence I'm not saying it's not there's not Samaritan influence in the church but there aren't people who are babylonian who have got positions in the church because with know about in the Old Testament if that was the case so let's get rid of that off my chest so so you're saying that they need to understand the old path okay so that's what they're directed to and Peter you prospered you said verse six so in Psalm 78 verse six we're not going to break that verse down but why is that important you're going to go ahead way and study it right why are you saying that's important we won't read the verse just tell us why it's important just the generations come on make the same mistakes okay I thought you're gonna say more than that if you read the verse verse six how many generations are they for Psalm 78 take you to the fourth generation are we in the fourth generation in the time of Christ yeah that's why Christ is quoting from Psalm 78 because now in the fourth generation all the stuff that's been buried and hid by the fathers the old past is now required to be understood and they're not they're not understanding it and just coming back to verse chapter 13 just want to add one more piece of information we'll drop back into the chapter so we read 1335 from 911 what are we supposed to be teaching we're supposed to be teaching in parables that's the first thing we're supposed to be doing we know that and what is this parable teaching going to what's it's the tester said Psalm 78 it's the it's the old path okay it's the things that have been kept secret from the foundations of the world which is all Old Testament history so who are we supposed to understand the Old Testament history as a church yes but we've been clueless about we had no idea about Old Testament history because we've turned them into children's stories yeah I mean the best shot that we've got an endtime prophecy is that people are going to eat a lot and there's going to be a high divorce rate I mean that's about the best shot that we've got endtime prophecy and there's gonna be lots of wars yeah so lots of eating in the divorce rate where do we get that from story or no I mean that's that's all we're going to get from the story of Noah I mean it's not much is it's not much to go on I mean anyway so we know we haven't understood the parables that have been hid from the foundations of the world yet because the hold of the story of Noah is what the parable and in the fourth generation all that information has been unlocked and decoded yeah by God's people by us we've understood that now so now we understand what that power will this teaching we okay with that that idea that's what that's what that's what the dynamic is happening here so from 9/11 we begin to speak in parables why do we begin to speak in parables from 9/11 so let's try and see that because it's 1335 drop back into the verse we'll pick up from verse 10 before the what how why we here for by the way cuz this is a distraction or a detour one two three hundred and we got the way to be pick up will be we get from one to three hundred oh hey treasure hey treasure so so the hit Treasuries war what I've given one example of hit treasure what what what example I give what story did I gave story of Noah is the story of Noah hid treasure or not no I mean children that means that just knowing this for millennia yeah so it's a surfy story so what's hit about it the meaning of it the reform line exactly what the story is dealing with so if you start if you start thinking about surface understanding and hid treasure understanding what's the surface story of Noah morals and the head treasure prophecy but I'm gonna say that's the surface understanding everybody knows that everybody knows the type is the story of Noah and the anti-type is the end of the world so it's a type of 90 type I think Oh everybody understands that Alpha and Omega beginning and end but people only understand it at a surface level which is morality so it's really bad morals at the beginning and it's really bad morals at the end but what's hidden in that story is that it's a parable and the parable is all prophetic the one that I'll see you let me - JD why do you say eight form what's it got to do with anything oh yeah but you just counted the number of eight people know us a people so I'm gonna say what eight just means not a lot of people are going to be saved because everyone's bad so I'm bringing it back to a moral foundation but why'd you pick up eight four why does it Bible even mention eight no but that's not what eights teaching is it it mentions a for a reason resurrection it has prophetic significance doesn't it may or may we know that the number eight itself isn't just any random number they could have said four or five yeah but now you're making these are not moral issues now when you took a map circumcision with respect to the number right there yes but but the reason I challenge that is because the church uses type an antitype always at a moral level yes so let's go to another one that we have a lot of fun with story of Esther yeah type an antitype you're going to bring that story bring it to the end of the world what you're going to do with it all about morality isn't it being a nice good person faithful to duty many nice stories but we get that story and we shred it up and we say it's a prophetic story because it's hid treasure yeah so can we were you okay to use that definition surface treasure and hid treasure is that the reason why I wanted to bring this up is not because we found some new Bible verses or you know there's an extra book that we just discovered we're reading the same words that everybody else is reading but now we're seeing things in the way that other people can't see because they've been hidden to them and the things that have been hidden according to this 1335 Psalm 78 is parables so we're supposed to go to everything in the scriptures and understand them as parables and when do we start doing that 9 11 13 35 no I need ever because before that we operate differently by the surface do you think it would be that simple asking or is this what do you prove in the next minute whoa what what you're the one who just worked it out so how did you work it out with a Bible verse because you're the one who said that it's logical but if I would teach that to my you need to tell him to shift the way he studies because people object to this message and their primary objection is what a senior the primary action is what show me a verse show me verse I was just going to point out Bellavia isn't from verse 10 1310 and the disciples came and said unto him why speakest thou unto them in parables okay so he's speaking in parables and they're asking him why and in 1335 it says he's gonna do this because he's fulfilling prophecy yes he's gonna fulfill what they but maybe he shouldn't say that he's fulfilling what the prophets have said in Psalm 78 and the reason is why so that so the information is that it's to reveal information and I want to suggest it's not to reveal information it's the total opposite verse 11 he answered and said unto them because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven but to them it is not given so who is to them and who is to you which one is disciples disciples are you and the Demi's whom leadership is right do dear anyone else could you know eat he's not in Judea by the way he's like in Galilee the adulterous generation and who's that how many people does that encompass not everybody we will all aren't we fourth-generation you commit adultery are you okay are you a leader or your fourth generation okay but we're all fourth generation people it's talking about the church adventism yeah so the you and the DEM is now going to begin to create this separation so the reason he's going to speak in parables is said that no one can understand him yeah that's how I read verse 11 because it is given unto you to know the mysteries the kingdom of heaven but to them it is not given so now here in 1335 he's going to start using what kind of language coded language so you can't understand what he's saying this is that do we agree with that the disciples are saying they did he didn't disciple to understand the parables well the disciples accent well why speakers now and civilian parables and all the multitude right yeah it's the most you've said so he's asked they're asking you seem to have changed your behavior yeah so they're taking themselves out they say why you speaking everybody in parables did the disciples understand parables they don't understand the parables the multi no one understands parables so what's the difference between the two groups and it's nobody understands it okay the disciples come and ask and then half the chapter is the explanation of what he said you think what's the point of all of that he's going to explain what he's already said why not just give the explanation in the first place what is the purpose of it if to ask for you have to ask for the rain it's a test they'd already been given to you though it's to develop into groups yeah this is the creative mechanism of producing two groups and had so what what was the dynamics here he's going to speak to everybody in the language nobody understands and how the two groups created sorry those who asked who the who do you have to ask you have to ask Christ we okay with that who is Christ rubber Tyler he's Smiley's book who is Christ no no no that's the kind of work okay that'll work he's our example okay so what does that mean the Christ is typifying our role yeah if we use this class if someone doesn't understand this class the creative mechanism of of developing two classes is can be demonstrated you know if two people don't understand it and one walks away and says I don't understand it you know whatever you must be speaking of terribles but the other person comes up and says what on earth did you mean and tries to get that information so this person here that they're gonna go and ask who is it or what's inside that what's what's your other name in the story who they're going to ask it seems to me that's what you're saying is that what he said I don't misunderstand it so he's taking the role of Christ yeah I don't know if that troubles anybody but isn't that I I've seen your hand just Tanya so isn't that what he's saying yeah King why is this important because Christ when he came what was he just genuinely conceptually what we've been studying it was what he was a man it wasn't a spirit he was a man yeah in John 16 what is his job title ray the Spirit of Truth comforter and what sort of job function of a comforter John 16 John 16 sin righteousness and judgment to come so Robert I this job function is to give the everlasting gospel and he has to do it once you get to 13 35 through parable teaching Tyler this is proper Tyler and Christ because they're the same person so you have to go he has to first give it in parable teaching yeah and the reason is gonna do that is to make sure that no one understands what he's talking about yeah and then you have to come and bow at his feet and to say can you explain what you just said and some people in this room this video are too proud to come and do that because well how'd they want to go so rate they want to go to the spirit they want to work it out all by themselves they want to study by themselves they don't watch videos because that's going to man isn't it so we don't want to do that we want to go through the spirit and getting it directly and there is spirit prophecy quote said we got to prove to demonstrate that's what we should be doing plethora many many quotes will tell you it's not supposed to go to Mary you're supposed to go directly to God because he'll teach you and where do you value put in model that says it doesn't work that way sister Tony sorry that was a little bit past okay which to where john 16:15 yes did you want to say anything else about that just making sure I understand what the point you're making John 16:15 what is he revealing okay things to come is this yeah the reformed line understand the future prepare for it he's revealing things to come that what you've just said here so I'm not I'm not challenging what you say I'm just all obtaining when we talk about revealing we've already understood that he's gonna reveal things to come so it's correct that that's what he's gonna reveal but what else is he gonna reveal just just what we've got here on the board what's even the reveal about threat yeah he's going to reveal that that what we are that we are not the children of God that we think we are we're not the elite chosen generation what are we we're under sin we're the same as the world and he's going to do that through the gospel but he's going to do that through a really strange way because the obvious thing that you do is if someone's in trouble you just give it straight to them nice I'm not going to do it that way because I wanted to do a number of things one of the things he wants us to do is and their salvation depended upon the manner in which they treated that message to Christ because Christ is a message just so philosophically not like in Bible in the time of Christ did they accept him or not why don't eat there why don't they accept him because he's a man and what kind of a man is he no no God not Godley's no God he made what kind of man he's an average man born in the wrong place with the wrong job doing the wrong thing behaving in the wrong way yeah so they're going to reject him in his humanity because he's not what they're looking for he's not the kind of person that they're expecting to see which is all about the nature of man isn't it because people are not going to submit to men who don't act the part or look the part let me today let me say that look the part because I'm gonna sit infer that Jesus didn't act the part there's going to be rejection because they don't like man everybody likes the spirit don't they and really likes the Bible that was complaining about that no us did not complaining that they don't like the Old Testament they carry it around in scrolls what they don't like is this man because he's not what they're expecting to see they're expecting something else they're expecting to be saved some other way yeah so just with the thought of some other way does well is that what thought does that coming up some other way ways the way Jesus says I am the way yeah so when he says I am the way what does that mean I am the way what is away path where is it the path to God need you to Christ because he is Christ then lead you to Christ He is God salvation where the paths lead you to you're restoring the image of God in you okay but listen what they're sick because we're parable teachers it's three us and these used to Jerusalem doesn't it is not what pastor supposed to do because at sunset we'll put bit sunset in here what happens the gates are closed so you the path the way Jesus is the way you need to go on the way before sunset don't don't worry about that because I'm feeling the sunset so it's some kind of structure that you need to go into isn't it what what is the structure you go into the sanctuary so you probably won't get this because I'm sorry it's a war City so here we have this structure there's a door and there's a path so this party's who this is Christ this is parties Christ who's the door yeah say Christ is the door what is this structure here it's the sheepfold yeah and people want to get into the sheepfold which way over the wall yes another way is that question or a statement he's the sheepfold also do Jerusalem I say yes sorry yes and who lives inside here sorry no no this is sheep who lives inside the sheepfold sheep yes but I'm just with the parable so you've got the church the bride and the guests two things that we have to we're both guests and we're both bride depending on what mode you want to take question on chapter 13 of NASA that we're discussing if I understood right you guys were saying that the disciples were always been asking Jesus for them for him to explain the parable I don't know what you mean say you guys because you're part of us but they knew guys I'm just trying to make sure that I understood right because according to what I said which verse are we yeah but nowhere in years have I seen that actually the disciples asked Jesus to explain the parable to them okay he doesn't say that why do you speak to them in parables read verse 36 1336 and Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house and the disciples came unto him saying declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field I'm not saying two different parables the whole chapter is about parable teaching he's going to start speaking in parables so the disciples don't understand parables and they're going to ask Christ to explain it to them as well I'm not trying to make a conceptual difference between a specific parable because all these power was the same parable aren't they they're not different parables it's just repeating in large repeating a large over and over again so no one understands it and the disciples have to go and ask him they have to bow down at the feet of a man to understand parables and we have a huge problem with that it's not accidental by the way it was designed this way to cause a stumbling block if you want it to yeah we'll go back to the quote just want to make sure we understand 1335 before I take it off the board and there's the significance of that yeah because we couldn't do this a few years ago clearly this would be heretical if we did this couple years ago they converse and put it into a year and then convert the year into 9/11 is that line up online somebody said uh-huh yeah it must be too much of a but yes yes I agree with it what I'm asking is is that line upon line doing that what line Livi's was done the reason I'm asking this question is because one of the things that people could spell now say is we usually teach line upon line and we don't do it anymore it's one of the accusations that come into the movement from ourselves from people who claim to be in the movement that we used to do let me add this adjective into it proper line upon line you know but now we just wing it do you call it wing it we just did what we want we just pluck up random things and we just say this this all works let's sort of throw it in and it's not proper line upon line methodology if we did we'd have some kind of system and this is why we're going off-track so you need to be sure that you know we can do things like that and likely to orale I think it's line upon line but lots of people are going to tell you it's not and people are now going to start question and stumbling over all of these issues that most of us here is you're saying what sounds good to me thank you for granted okay I like it olivine dancer Christ Lane he joy sure the timeline that guy's was speaking in when he was speaking it to who he was speaking it then he was back to Noah's timeline sure what was spoken there brought it to Miller's line and then please define our line sounds good when she says it like that I thought we did all that much it's a good summary 13 13 13 13 oh yeah yeah we did yeah though I hadn't quite finished in in but we'll come back to 13 we'll just read this because this is similar what is it to finish this one the only safety now is to search the truth search for truth one two three hundred point one as revealed in the Word of God has for hid treasure have we understood what he Treasuries I'm suggesting here treasure is that you need to go back into these words and understand them as parables not as moral stories that's what I want to define his treasure as surface treasure is morality anybody can see that a worldly person can see that that they even quote it yeah like the writing on the wall I mean that's that's in secular society now and everybody knows what that means yeah but hey Treasury's something different hit Treasury's you need to understand what the writing on the wall prophetically means and no one seems to understand that even though you just need to go to Strong's Concordance and you can work it out recently it's not difficult is it how what we do with the writing of the wall now we'd make it into prophecy yes the subject of the Sabbath nature of man and the Testament of Jesus are the great and important truths to be understood these were proofs as an anchor to hold God's people in these perilous times how would they how will they be an anchor to hold us explain those subjects so why the Sabbath hid treasure so give me one example like we don't know the timing of it we don't know the room it's probably a silly question but what things that we know about how to keep Sabbath so for a hundred plus years we've actually been keeping Sabbath at the wrong time we started the wrong time and at the wrong time that's not say so with with in keeping with vinkeveen Sabbath at the wrong time so on Friday when we say 5:45 you should actually be six o'clock because we're 15 minutes out because we haven't understood the technicalities about sunset is that what you mean that would be hid treasure no but that's what you suggested I know and I'm not saying you know exactly but that what you said maybe there's some hid treasure about Sabbath I'm saying what would there be and you said maybe it's sunset so what I've understood you to me to I'm asking you to clarify that is we we say sunset to sunset and I'm saying it's 5:45 to 5:45 about the times as in the timing I'm talking about the prophetic way mark of sunset oh you didn't mean literally you mean prophetically I mean okay but that's exactly what I'm saying is that hid treasure is to understand the prophetic significance of what of what that is okay so what I want to suggest is this may be something we haven't understood here is the first thing or the first place you need to go to any kind of discussion like this we if you say these three things we haven't understood what's the first thing you need how is that how how are you supposed to understand things it has to be an intellectual understanding first doesn't it before you have an experience so for us to say their stomach about the Sabbath's we haven't understood I'm saying that you have to it has to be done on the intellectual level we have to know some facts and figures that we don't understand about the Sabbath is that what we're saying when it talks about the Sabbath you can't just be some kind of spiritualistic thing about the Sabbath that we haven't picked up it has to be something intellectual first the example which sister Shimon is giving I think is is germane to this issue she says the Sabbath days the things that mark the Sabbath is sunset so maybe we need to start digging into understanding more about sunset how it operates what it looks like and then launch from there to come to some prophetic understanding and the one I'm focusing on is the nature of man which is why we even came here because I'm saying intellectually we need to have a a working model of how a human being is constructed and put together and for many of us that that model is wrong and if you have a wrong intellectual understanding you're going to have a wrong experience spiritual it's going to be it's not going to turn out right okay so we're going to get there just wanted to maybe do it bit slow I just want to go I just want to reiterate something though that we've already spoken about so that we're totally clear the threefold nature of a human being is intellectual moral and physical we had the heart here when we've moved into the right place this is the right place to put it invent his home one two seven paragraph two it says the flesh fleshly carnal lusts these are not the body when it talks about the flesh it's not the body it's not this thing it's something that's within us that controls the body who has its seat in the body so I just want to make sure that we're all clear about this before we move on that the flesh is emotion you can use a synonym if you want to I don't mind but flesh is emotion and another way to express flesh is the emotion is lower passions or lower powers you can use the passion of the power the reason it uses passions because it's going to identify what it is it's dealing with but these are powers or faculties or departments is that how you say a faculty a faculty is the apartment so human being is divided into three departments intellectual Department mold Department and this emotional Department the flesh is the lower passion or lower powers and it's dealing with all the emotional part of the human being and it's called corrupt nature why is that called corrupt nature and nothing else is called corrupt nature before you answer that question let me ask you this the intellectual is it possible for that to have been corrupted is it possible for that to have been corrupted people are saying yes what do you were you going to say you said yes I think that absolute that's what you say absolutely yeah absolutely like it knows that people say absolutely because I'm about to say no so if you say absolutely then I'm going to disagree with your absolutely so I want you to explain to me how you can get the intellectual to be corrupt but one of us to understand what corrupt means I'm suspecting you mean when you say the intellect is corrupt is that we have got corrupt information or bad information but that's not what the intellect is it's not just about information it's not just about information because when we come to this one emotion let's pick up one hate so is hate good or bad both now you go to a dictionary definition does it change it hate his hate just how you're going to conceptualize it and what you're going to apply it to and what you're going to hate yeah so it's not about the information or that's that's dealing with hate hate is hate whatever way you're going to look at it so when it comes to the mentor the intellect how does that process in work what's the process the mechanism of of this I'll give you an example there's a building and this is a library yeah so there are two people Jesus and Satan yeah one is totally corrupt fallen human fallen nature I say Satan the Fallen human being is not human being obviously totally lost bad person and his Jesus totally right perfect person yes how are they going to learn things one's got fallen and one is not fallen I'm not talking about the for the nature of Christ how do they learn things do they learn things here no they don't learn things here they learn them here so what's the process or the mechanism of how you learn if your will do this way me and Adam sinless Adam and sinful perm endure so it's a walk back to back comparison how does the mechanism of learning or intellect work is it different okay Adam yeah wasting this Adam collects information processes it understand things knowledge reason course to effect all of that thing the process of the mechanism that he does it is that any different to me so has that become corrupted but that that's what I'm saying that when we talk about corrupt nature this part of our nature has not been corrupted masculine bad information the bad information is we think pork is good for you nowadays there's bad information but once you get the information that pork is good what do you do okay you start eating pork don't you because you're going to use logic and reason and understanding say pork is good for you so what should we do we should eat it that's not corrupt just just bad information the mechanism of how this part of our being works has not been corrupted it's the same weight always been the same way so it's not part of our intellectual process so what I'm saying is this I don't think we forget anything what our problem is that we can't recall things we that we've lost the ability through genetic mutation and damage we have it's in or what everyone to retract their information there are many many examples where people are going to you know just about to die and they say they had this flashback of all of their lives they remember things that they've forgotten I don't think that everything that's coming to your brain that you're forgotten I think we've got 100 percent perfect memorization of everything but we don't have the ability to recall and and I think that's because of I call it brain damage other note you know we've got physical damage to our system everybody's heard of savants did you call it that here yeah you know they've got a hundred percent recall not not only that they can do you know great things they can get a book and they can just scan two pages at a time maybe just look at it and it's like I've taken pictures so you know how did they get a hundred percent Total Recall SAV a NT savant yeah right yeah they all they can do is the demoscene Devin ours is they've got ability to access and to dip in to that filing cabinet and we and we draw it in a way that we just don't and some of us have different we're on a different scale yeah it's nothing is DNA damage so if we're gonna say that to forget is a sin what do we mean that because we say you forgot if you gave you an e forgot there you're done sin but maybe she doesn't even mean that maybe forgetfulness is a consequence of sin they still there but it takes a lot of effort now to rewire the brain to make those connections when we do memory verses its effort you know there's some sites behind it your long-term memory short-term memory there's some techniques that you can learn but I think essentially it's DNA damage the matrix that we are has been corrupted and damaged through UV or whatever it is pork eating adultery drugs it through the generations it's damaged our DNA to the to the place to the to the situation we can't now make those connections and retrieve them in a way that we were supposed to so that's my premise on on that issue about memory yes what I'm saying is this I'm saying it has not been corrupted I mean our abilities have been corrupted you know we can't not everybody can read them from cause to effect in as well as other people we may not have the ability to jump through loops and understand logic in a really quick and fast way some people might say I'm a bit slow but the mechanism by which that works hasn't changed the way God put Adam together and he says when you want to understand information you go to the library and you learn it whether you're corrupt human being or whether you're not it's always going to be the same way the mechanism hasn't changed hasn't been corrupted it's just on the deans brother's assistant when during a quote from messages do it says when a man is truly converted he becomes a son of God a partaker of the divine nature not only is their heart renewed what the intellect is trained and invigorated there have been many instances of persons who before conversion were thought to possess ordinary and even inferior ability but who after conversion seemed to be entirely transformed and wouldn't I'll give us a reference for that every boy okay what are you saying from that paragraph is that in it first of all is that agreeing or disagreeing with writing okay so what is the word when you pick up from that beneath the green because she's saying that that person the intellect the ability upon conversion becomes renewed to the point where they are able to collect in if it was if it was changed in the sense of not being able to collect the information process and visuals and store then that regeneration could not have taken place that experience where at first you seem to just be ordinary and even inferior but no you're you really are a new creature based on I don't know how to continue north but your intellect the ability to collect information to process it and use it it's not cheating birth beta I was just wondering what your definition of intellect so I pulled up one and it says I'm not sure if this is what you're using as a definition it says the Faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively especially with regards to abstract or academic matters and the reason I was thinking okay wait day so objectiveness yeah really the Faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively objective and the reason well and I spin it especially with regard to abstract or academic matters and what academic I'm gonna put that all again and my first thought was I know people who I think they're very intellect it seems to me is damaged because it's like in my mind was people that if you bring anything with wit with regard to evolution and the I look at the same evidence and I think there's no way that that supports Mac revolution and for them there's no way they can see anything other than that to me they're they're they have a bias they're they're not overly keen about it objectively to me that's I was thinking about their intellect is damaged because of their bias so let me ask you that do you think these people aren't able to understand what you're saying I tell people they definitely can't there's no way they can comprehend is that he's a lack of comprehension here or here I would say it's more in their her but okay so you're not your green then yellow glass I am looking at that now now but but I guess it's the bias they have that damages the way they use their into that okay so so it is a matter of the heart tell me their biases here or here the bias would be in my wife is here yeah and that's yeah I've so that's why I read that let me get okay it's it's the bias that they can no longer be a truly objective okay so my question is can they be truly objective did they have the ability have they lost as they corrupt nature corrupted their ability to be objective no and that's yes okay so yes oh I'm just checking a you agree nor disagree new I'd say agree with you mouth okay because it's the bias that keeps them from using their intellect in a proper manner the bias is here yeah sister Tonya okay so I think so when you've got cause and effect here where does cause and effect go here here or here to the intellect I'm saying everybody has the ability to go from cause to effect we all have that it was not damaged the damage is what brother Peter saying is this one says I don't care about cause and effect I'm not interested in cause and effect because if it tastes good you just eat it we're not interested in cause and effect everybody knows that what if something's bad it's gonna hurt you you know there are some people who self inflict they know what they know what's going to happen to them but they just don't care and that and what I mean don't care is maybe they're in some addiction the don't and they've lost the ability to care but all of that is I'm saying it's all here everybody can reason with cause to effect when when I put cause and effect here I'm saying what this restoration of the image of God is doing it say in this thing here about cause and effect you need to start really exercising it and doing it properly and how are you going to let this cause fact this part of your being work properly what needs to be dealt with according to what brother Peters in this one needs to be sorted out because this one who worked perfectly well it works pertain was never damaged it's this work that has been damaged and this is the problem that's stopping us from using cause to affect properly the Heart Walk yep I'm not saying that flesh lower passions lower powers the emotion she calls it the corrupt nature so I've got a couple of hands up what I'm want to say this just so we don't leave sort of it too much hanging is that when we talk about corrupt nature we're just you put everything together and we said you know this finger this finger is corrupt nature I'm saying that is craziness this finger is not corrupt nature but more than that I'm saying the intellect this part of our being is not corrupt nature it was never ever corrupted and more than that I'm saying this one here hasn't been corrupted either so we haven't defined what we could just go to a dictionary corrupt means bad just that without going to a proper diction definitely dictionary definition I'm not trying to define what it means all I'm picking up is where we're gonna target the corruption I'm saying you when you get corruption corruption is this blob here this ugly looking thing what got corrupted I'm suggesting I hopefully we've proved it with a few quotes and that this has not been corrupted if this were corrupted you are in a serious problem because if you corrupt this part of your being this is where I don't know how to do it so if I've said this incorrectly I'll run apologize this is someone who's got brain damage you know they were born or they've had an accident and they've got brain damage when they've got brain damage you can't treat that person in the same way that you treat someone without brain damage you can't have the same expectations but you know that was that person's name who got the pole in his eye and yeah so you can't say to him stop lying or cheating or stop getting angry unless you're sick he could became a different person because what got damaged was not this this got damaged so besides people who have got that kind of brain damage which has beat which need to be treating the separate and unique different way and I'm saying it's none of us whoever the ask is I don't mean every cuz I don't know I don't know you well enough but this was not damaged through the fall of man it wasn't this is not corrupt and I'm also saying we haven't proved that yet that this wasn't either this is the only thing that's corrupt and she says it plainly the flesh the lower powers the emotions this is courtesy calls it corrupt nature and if you change change corrupt to sinful then it begins to change the way you understand what our problem is and how we deal with the problem because it's not here and I haven't shown that it's not here but it's not here it's all here and a couple of hands up I think someone had turned up it can be corrupted ability can be corrupted but the inherent capabilities cannot be corrupted okay it's given intellect inherent capability anyone else who had the hand up I thought did you know this man comes into it no I've boxed that off because I'm not I haven't haven't dealt with that so I don't want to make an application I mean when you're saying what you're saying nature is the emotional realm I'm not saying why it was corrupted I'm not even saying how it was corrupted the first place I want is this see is that this hasn't been corrupted this one has wherever it means however it was done otherwise that it was she says it's corrupt nature but what we do is we say the whole thing is corrupt everything about us is corrupt and I don't think that that's correct and it makes a huge difference I think identifying what was corrupted and what was not corrupted yes many I'm not saying you're a mecca I'm a medical missionary struggle with this and the conservative adventism struggles with it and the reason we struggle is because we're locked into a force gospel of reforms because it's sin to take drug medication that's the premise that we built a lot of our theology upon and it's crazy to think that way and put our sake people say no let me show you the spirit prophecy quotes I say possibly of prophecy quotes aside for what just use common sense and reason common sense would teach you that it's created to develop a theology that teaches that and the reason we've built up a theology that teaches that is because we've said that this body is us as opposed to just a car when the car breaks you should get another car the car is an ass if that body is nothing to preserve it as a symbol that you you believe that you're falling asleep you're not burning your body like the pagans - I don't see them I don't know why I'm not an expert of one you know I try to have the mind of Christ as best as I can but I still haven't figured him out he does things to me that you know why'd you have to get married in front of people you know why you think it baptized you front of people why can't you baptize yourself these things I don't fully understand it seems I do understand I don't have the ability in this class I mean we've been going for three weeks now I think to go through every verse every spirit of prophecy quo to prove and demonstrate them so what I try to do is this so you get an idea of the methodology I'm glad that I'm trying to use and I think it's that it's the way that we should approach the problem we've come up with a theory based upon we read some ad hoc verse we can we come up with a theory so you know some of they'll say take the the raising up of this person and then we say put it on a line yeah so we're now looking at version we put him on be putting them on the line so what I'm saying is that I've got this theory based upon a verse like the nature of man is threefold so now I want to say what is all that mean and I'm gonna try to develop a theory now I can't use every single verse to prove that so what I'm going to do is I'm going to select my chosen inspired comments to build up a model that has integrity to it that's what I'm trying to do but I'm only picking probably 5% of all the verses or spirit price quotes that you could use what you now are required to do is to test that is to see first of all does it make sense using this intellect does this model seem to work and hopefully you're beginning to see that it seems to have some kind of rhyme and reason to it even though it may be different to what you thought and then the next thing people do is will say prove it so I'll prove it with some quotes which I think I'm doing and then people say well I've got this other super quote that seems to undo what you're saying so I say okay before you do that make sure you understand how the model works and what it's teaching then get those quotes and reread them and reread them and check if they're actually destroying what I'm teaching and this is how we approach line upon line methodology isn't it because if we go straight to the spirit of prophecy and you start reading them most of time we read the mists we read things incorrectly because we've got preconceived ideas we don't understand what's what's going on and they dose statements that seem to challenge what I'm saying or what you say end up not how many times have we done this done list in class they ask you a verse I said who's the hymn get to different people I say how do the structure of the verse go people have got variant opinions so you know you've got a bad habit of misleading inspiration and it takes a lot of effort to critically analyze and read things properly and the only way I think we should be doing it or the safe way should root we should be doing it is create a structure that we know is correct like three steps one two three and now get your passage and make them fit the structure the ugly way of explaining that is you're saved by your lines you're not saved by the Word of God anymore because that's what we get accused of isn't it and what's your response to that brother Tyler what saves you the line or them for the Bible worth you think there to say look I'll be more bold and say the line saves you okay so all of our gainsayers I'll say yes what my primary place reference point is the line now I created that line with a Bible verse okay but then I jumped ahead in the head in the head and now when I've got a challenge between my line and your Bible verse I'm saying the line trumps every single time and the problem is you don't have to read scripture you're miss reading and you've got to have enough faith that these lines have integrity to to them so that when someone gives you a nod verse that doesn't seem to fit what do you say I'll just ignore your verse I'll ignore your verse because my structure is sound and what I mean by ignoring your verse I don't mean in the foolish way I mean okay let's read your verse and see how see what it really says and you've got a bracket you've got to practice this because if you don't tomorrow or the next day or the next day someone's gonna find in the published writing some really great verse that's going to destroy your worldview if you if you're not sure that this reform line is correct with all the simple verses that you've got with some of throws a hard verse at you you're going to crumble and that's what's happening now that's why we have these shakings because people are not firm on the few simple verses that we use that these reformed lines are correct so someone's going to come up with complicated hard verse and say see it proves you're wrong and then we get shaken and we start running around asking each other what's going on what's happening this is what's happening and so I'm saying the same thing with the nature of man it's the same problem you can show me many problematic passages that seem to war against what I'm saying but I want to use simple ones to prove that point in it so enclosing system Britany it doesn't matter make the point I know I just miss what was said what the struggle was he said okay sorry I forgot what was wrong what was talking me in summary I want us to begin to see that this part of our nature has not been corrupted and what I mean by this I don't mean we've got wrong information of course we've got wrong information that's not the nature that's not what this is identifying it's not the external source of information that comes to us it's the ability to get that information how we process it and what we do with it the mechanism the processing of it this one has been corrupted I want us to understand this one a bit more about whether or not that was corrupted as we continue our studies let's pray Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness and your mercy we ask and pray that you would be with us bless us and guide us we want to ask that you would help us to use the faculties of our being to honor you and to glorify you through this day in Jesus's name we pray I mean