(10-09-18) Morning - Time shall be no longer - (IMOoBUdXwMo)

Overview

Video

Details

Publish Date: 10/10/2018
Speaker Name:
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (10-09-18) Morning - Time shall be no longer-IMOoBUdXwMo
YouTube ID: IMOoBUdXwMo

References

Downloads

Download Video File
Download Audio File
Download Handout/Notes

Transcription

I mean we turn to the great controversy gc6 for eight 648 paragraph three using the book it's a lot it's the very last paragraph of the chapter begins upon on the crystal sea before the throne that sea of glass as it were mingled with fire so resplendent is it with the glory of God I gathered the company that have gotten the victory over the Beast over his image and over his mark and over the number of his name so it's anybody know what Bible birthdays I'm just wait for someone to confirm and the verse revelation 15 verse 2 oh we don't need to turn there less you unless you want to with the lamb with the lamb upon Mount Zion having the harps of God they stand the 144,000 that were redeemed from among men and there is heard as it and there is heard as the sound of many waters and there's the sound of a great thunder the voice of harpers harping with their harps and they sing a new song before the throne a song which no man can learn saved 144,000 is the song of Moses and the lamb song of deliverance none but the 144,000 can learn that song through the song it is the song of their experience and experience such as no other company have ever had these are they which follow the lamb with us however he goeth these having been translated from the earth from among the living are counted as the firstfruits unto God and to the lamb revelation 15 revelation 14 these are they which come out of Great Tribulation they have passed through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation they have endured the anguish of the time of Jacob's trouble they have stood without an intercessor through the final outpouring of God's judgment but they have been delivered that they have washed their robes and made them white in the land so in the blood of the Lamb in their mouth was found no guy off there without fought before God therefore are they before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in his temple and he that sitteth upon the throne shall dwell among them they've seen the earth wasted with famine and pestilence the son having power to scorch men with great heat and they themselves have endured suffering hunger and thirst but they shall hunger no more neither thirst any more neither shall the Sun light on them nor any heat for the lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them and shall lead them into living two living fountains of water and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes relation seven so are there any characteristics here that we that are new to you or that we didn't pick up yesterday or they have any impact on the discussion about the line of the 144,000 that made me change your mind or reinforce a concept that you already have it's not a new passage I'm sure we've all read this before but it's kind of refreshing it's easy to forget things though the Philip they come from the policy come out of the Great Tribulation pass through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation that's Jacob Stein trouble she actually says they have endured the anguish and the Jacob stamps travel okay so we're eight a couple of lines at the on the top of six four nine I'll just read that these are they which came out of Great Tribulation they have passed through the time of Jacob's throw through the time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation they have endured the anguish of of the time of Jacob's trouble so she's explaining Jacob's time of trouble in three different ways with three different phrases is that how we read that yeah we all there okay where we were in sixth or eighth paragraph three she's I mean if you can see where she actually puts the Bible verses revelation 15 to revelation 14:1 it's the next sentence these are they which came out of Great Tribulation so you've got Great Tribulation the time of trouble such as never was and then she's going to call this Jacob's time of trouble so it's those three titles are they repeating in large brother Theodore she says it's the final hell pouring of God's judgments that's the next characteristics sister to me okay so this is the flakes that's what is that we've picking up so it's some great tribulation this one can be tricky why there are two times of trouble so I've just called this time of trouble then I'm going to call it Jacob's time of trouble and then what's the last way she says are we okay to put seven plagues here she doesn't say that yeah and there's no intercessor and what does that mean because I put Daniel 12:1 yeah so it's Michael standard up and therefore there's no intercessor does anybody have any queries on any of those thoughts they some of us there may seem you know relatively straightforward of it but I'm not assuming that for everybody maybe we haven't thought about it before maybe we've seen it differently maybe it's new and pretty okay yeah so I'm sis I'm saying all of this is connected specifically to the 144,000 and the sentence above says that they have been translated from the earth so we've got the translation here they don't die I'm not sure if we picked any of this up yesterday did we don't see it anywhere they lit basically this is the time period in which they're going to be doing that experience that she's speaking about and there's no intercessor so I'm saying that's clearly this history yeah I don't know if anybody daily reason we're labeling this point is because there still seems or underneath there is now but there are questions at least about the veracity of this line and its function its purpose does it even exist what does it mean especially when we when we our focus has been a close of probation here at Sunday law it just seems to me that this line goes way past a Sunday there it's 144,000 it's it's a story about God's people and as soon as you start talking that in the context of this history here to me the natural question would be how did you get here where did you begin your journey and that's what I think a reformed line is supposed to do show us the details of how you get from the beginning to the end of your journey Clayton did those four events the Great Tribulation the Time of Troubles Jacob's time of trouble and the seven last plagues are four separate events are attributes of a similar event so obviously I just that's just I think two sentences there maybe even one so my question is that I repeat in the large all the same event or four separate ones I'm asking how we see it brother Philip says it's all the same event oh yes so the Great Tribulation yeah reasonably buries that way because he goes from Matthew 24 there is a time of tribulation such as never walk that's on the earth so it's one event and you're just describing it toward my words how do you think I'm really considered that at that point anyone else because I am chapter 40 you in chapter 14 in your Sabbath school but you haven't got to this bit yet okay okay brother Graham service school that was pointed out that Jacob's trouble small period of time within that history okay so we can make refinements to this so if this was Daniel 12:1 you can't get all of this what I'm drawing from this passage I don't think you can second Advent you'd have to do a bit bill a bit more research there's a death decree I just put law this death decree happens sometime after the Daniel 12:1 and once this decree goes forth this is where she seems to be marking Jacob's time of trouble but but in this in this scenario how she's writing it she doesn't seem to be making this distinction it's just when there's no intercessor it's Jacob's time of trouble so she's just merged those two points it's just a refinement that's how I would explain that so it is brother Titus question are we saying all of these are just synonymous terms I think brother Theodore said he believes that it is always have the same starting and ending point but they're all part of that same period pretty much synonymous the it wasn't just a question of does that called you conservation that okay how did you can have people in about it before then I thought it was one of it I just thought it was one that Jake Osama trouble would be a descriptor of that would be the great tribulation or time of trouble that's hot just that that was just without really studying okay so I think we're winning agreement with that it reduces different titles for the same thing so I don't know if I've if we've labored that point enough that there's agreement that this is a valid line and it's the line of God's people and not arguing that you could develop another line that would speak of the world or Babylon in the same history but I'm you know we can add that in to explain some things but to me the purpose of a reformed line is to see how God cleans up the mess on earth and are we okay to start the history here the reasons why we would do that ya know brother Tyler why would you where would you start that line if you're gonna say yet to make your own wife wife wife start instead of somewhere after before yeah I think it I guess it kind of it's easier to see when you when you look at the title final generation we know that from 1989 this is where the reform line is going to begin the complete reform line so from 1989 to second Advent is one is the final generation you know this is the last group of people so from that standpoint I see that in terms of 144,000 maybe I'm wrong to say it this way but the people who are the group of people that 144,000 that group of people starts at 1989 maybe not all of them are right there right then but that's when this group of people begins to be assembled and they're going to go forward until they're fully assembled and you know they go through all these different way marks but and come out at the end but in all in all of it I don't see another another way of putting it or another a better place to put it and then if you're looking at Adventism maybe that's the harder one to see you know the one you can get more tripped up on because you could make it argument maybe for somewhere back in the past like 1798 or 1844 or something like that but the other two I think are seem fairly simple I guess maybe that's an overstatement it's the right joke I'm not saying specifically 1989 but I can't you goes back to much further than that when we talk about that 144,000 you could go a little bit before that but why can't you go why could you not go back to 1844 1888 or another major way mark back in the history of Adventism when we're talking about this group of people because they don't die that's okay so that's the argument that we have just ish to argue about in translation you you're limited to how far you can go back and that's where that concept or the final generation when he comes we pick it up from Matthew 24 this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled and we've discussed that in class how we approach that problem when it says all these things what all these things mean and we've seen contextually that it's talking about those two classes that are there at the very end of that story where the parable of the fig tree is expressed after that than she does least repeat and enlarge and then it culminates through Jesus does and then it culminates in Matthew 25 which is another story about their end time history then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto two groups of servants in this in Matthew 25 it talks about two groups of virgins so when he talks about the generation you can't go all the way back to ad 31 just contextually you can't do that but many people do and if you do that then you have to spiritualize what a generation is and then people get have another problem because it picks up the signs of the Sun Moon and stars you'll notice explicitly Jesus doesn't mention the earthquake the earthquake is introduced in revelation 6 we'd read that yesterday verse 12 that's how well then white is going to bring the Lisbon earthquake into the story which he does mention in the great in the great controversy but her focus is upon 1780 connected with 1773 so we've discussed that you've seen how sister Tessa's used those at least 77 straight she didn't really talk about 1780 and brought that into the story so if you do that and then you go all the way to 29 to 30 31 in Matthew 24 talks about then shall they see the Son of man come in the clouds of heaven and what we tend to do is we say that's Daniel chapter 7 verse 13 that's October 1844 and I'm saying I don't think it really is you can make an application to that but it was meant to be the second Advent that happens in the Miller right history and he essentially doesn't happen so he didn't have to take that middle right history and bring it into our own history and then it becomes problematic of how you address the Sun Moon and stars the second Advent which we really don't ever get into sister Tamina to be alive so it can't be before and if you cut out the stone that okay so you can see the imagery in Daniel - but could you go to Daniel - is an original source separate and distinct to actually mark the time of the end how would you do that now I'm not saying to the application I'm just asking how would you use down you two to independently verify right it's gonna stone is going to strike the imagery at the feet which is at the time of the end it's had no in a kayak how do I set the time at the end I'm okay with your logic I'm just seeing how how well do you know that the logic to develop your argument afterwards anyway okay so it's the last kingdom yeah it's the last how you pick up the cutting-out is at the time at the end that's all I guess that's what I'm asking well I I guess I connected with the building of solomon's temple boy we have to cutting out of the stones which form the temple okay brother when you asked this I quote came back to my mind where Ellen White says through the increase of knowledge of people shall be prepared to stand in the last days or something like this I know it's in the time of DN magazine and we can go and have a study on dynamic level forty or forty to forty five and Snow White and the Reform lines show why 1989 is increase of knowledge and through that increase of knowledge people shall be prepared to stand in the last days and I think that people those people are the 144,000 so I guess that's how I connect wide 144,000 their preparation for their experience starts in 1989 everyone's an emoji so it's through an increase of knowledge so anybody know where that quote is so we could just read it together CTR three three eight and a more original one so if we go to 17 mo and anytime but I've mentioned it before 17 M are the two letters that are the right Ellen White writes to John Harper Bell yet from the same letter this is letter number two it's one that we've already read actually this passage the book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation oh sorry seventeen Mr six point three until Mr six point three the book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel which relates to the last days the scripture says but Thou O Daniel shut up the words sealed the book even to the time of the end many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased when the book was opened the proclamation was made time shall be no longer the Book of Daniel is now unsealed and the revelation made by Christ to John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth by the increase of knowledge of people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days and then she's going to quote the first angels message so you have to add a bit of information here to make the point that brother Phillips making but I think it's a valid point do we all remember the portion that's at the bottom of page 6 when it says when the book was open the proclamation was made time shall be no longer because that's revelation 10 so she's collecting revelation 14 and revelation 10 brother Daniel you okay with that logic as we discussed it that's 80 40 not 1798 yeah sound that sad when you say that okay sealed in 1788 but it's fully open yeah and we can just that simple argument that we had is when you're passing along the ground you can see back and you can see ahead of yourself if we remember that just that concept allows us I think to give a defense that the book is unsealed the seven thunders uttered their voices before they're all fulfilled because those seven thunders are not only explaining your past experience and also explaining the experience that you're about to go through does that make sense I know everybody maybe have been in that class but for those who were that's part of that logic to to explain for me why we can place the unsealing not literally but midway halfway through a reform line how could they have known everything halfway through a reform line about what because the fence haven't even happened the seven thunders haven't even completed their work yet and they know that's one point the other point that we picked up here is that the Millerites knew there's seven thunders sometimes we we argue that they don't come so I'm suggesting that they do just like we do we know the seven thunders so I like that point we can mark the increase of knowledge we've brought and we've brought in different points but we've got 1989 to find a generation we can't go much further than that it's the beginning of a reform line and it's through the increase of knowledge though and people are going to be prepared to stand the the phrase latter days can be used in different contexts in the one that we're looking at now we're picking up 1989 but you know that this latter days that she's referring to here is 1798 do you agree with that this is 1798 that she's speaking of or maybe you don't agree didn't agree about the Philip I didn't read it like this maybe I have to look at him from a different angle I I thought I said that she's talking about you know I don't know if she was thinking about 1790 I'm sure we can apply to 79 80 for sure yeah we could make lots of applications I want to know what the original okay go back one paragraph no go back go down one paragraph you see revelation 14 six and seven first dangers message yeah go back up one paragraph six point two no six point two go up one more the first and second messages were given in 1843 1844 and we are now under the proclamation of the third so I'm suggesting that the the anchor point or the context is millerite history 43 44 I'm not trying to explain why she says the first angels messages in 43 and we give 1798 40 we give different dates on the chart it says 37 so you've got lots of different dates of the first angels message we've got at least four they're 1798 40 she gives 43 here the chart says 37 she had different date so before we move on sister Bronwyn it's like yeah seven thunders on the other so you're saying he's uttering things that will be happening but how how where do you get your objective it seems already happened behind you Oh from the passage that we read from the present truth document when the special light comes it reflects back in the context do you remember the passage that I'm talking about it's in the notes that we had I don't think I probably if I forget to find them okay this is the present truth for November 4 1886 paragraph 7 I'll just read it to you if you do have you know it's it's the paragraph that says Daniel II some page six Daniel also was made the channel of light for the generations to come to the end of time he calls the light of God's put he caused the light of God's purposes hidden from the great men and the mighty potentates of earth and reflected this on the graph on the proud courts of Kings through a prat of course of Kings and Earth's greatest despots and reveal to them not only the majesty of God as supreme ruler in the heavens I want to cut down next sentence I think it is the light of heaven beamed out upon the blind and apostate racing clear studied living raised and when the light of the world the Sun of righteousness has once risen it's illuminating rays were not only reflecting the light to the future but back through the preceding generations given significance to the whole plan and purpose of God from Adams day down through the patriarchs and prophets the old ceremonies were lighted up the original context is the cross when once the cross happens it illuminates what the Old Testament sacrificial system was about and then it also pointed to the consummation at the end of the world in the context of Adventism the argument that we have with evangelical Christianity in this history is what is that because she says this cross is going to illuminate the past that's the that's the land so the sacrifice is how does it illuminate the future just contextually here so I've given the clue this is the argument that we as Adventists have against the whole of Christendom when it talks about the cross will illuminate the future and it's it it's a specific phrase that you know brother Theodore who knows the answer to some I'm trying to tease it's someone else's without giving you all the clothes what what is our big issue Adventists against the world what makes us unique not the Sabbath most people think it's the Sabbath not blue Tolman okay so the atonement and when you go to the toll and it's here on the 1843 chart for sanctuary it's a brother feared our sister she credit you had your hand on brother Theodore yeah well the book kingdom of the cults which is the first book I read after I became a seventh-day Adventist that's really clearly the whole issue they have no problem with us keeping the Sabbath even the state of the Dead though they don't agree with it it doesn't make us a call but it's the atonement that makes us involved because what do we take with respect to the atonement what we teach the atonement is not completed at the cross now the the church compromised in their wording so that the evangelicals were happy with us but they didn't have to change the Sabbath we didn't have to change the state of the Dead but they have to change the nature of Christ and the nature of the atonement which are related to each other so she she's not picky saying it directly because she only goes to the past the ceremonies but I understand what she says with the cross illuminates the future is the work of atonement is not completed the cross and whatever happens there is shine a shedding light on 1844 when the atonement is complete all we did was take that principle and make an application just really simply to say this then at a point here when there's light this light will he uses the word reflect sheds light into the future and into the past and I just made an application to say if this was 1840 it explains 1798 and there also is going to explain 1844 we would have to put 1843 if you're going to do this technically but at 4:44 and we know that's that's true isn't it Lich's work explains the party it verifies Miller's work through an independent channel using the same methodology and then it's also going to explain here because what are they able to say time is no longer and hopefully we know what time is no longer means okay brother Tyler we when we're done with the word one flesh we had verified I know we talked about it but I don't remember exactly when I when she says it reflects light I'm wondering if it means it's reflecting off of something or it's being cast directly from the source and I remember we had a discussion about this but I remember what we said or if we even came to a conclusion on it okay so we're gonna pick up that question in a moment so we looked at that present truth document we made an application that I'm not trying to suggest that 1840 is the cross I'm not trying to do that all I'm saying is that there's this idea that at a point in time something happens that sheds light on the past and upon the future and I made an application here 1840 just trying to go back to the passage that we were reading this is a shuttle 17 mr 6.3 just lost my page we went here because of the increase of knowledge and then I just mentioned casually at the bottom of page 6 it says when the book was open the proclamation was made time shall be no longer and I'm saying that's 1840 not 1798 because he quotes revelation 10 people use this passage to take Revelation 10 and bring it back to 1798 and they do that just because of the way that the way this sentence flows so I'm suggesting otherwise that this is 1840 and she's going to connect it through 1798 and here it says time she'll be no longer so brother plating USA that was my understanding and now that's all torn up so I don't have an opinion there because now you're making time prophecies again and so I don't know brother Daniel what does this mean contextually but I forgot what we discussed about it there's our 2300 a but it seems like it's gonna be no longer it's not gonna care anymore well it well this brings us back to Daniel chapter 12 so we'd have to understand what's happening with Daniel chapter 12 as far as time is the long okay mysterious sister Bowman I've been taking away from the majority of your studies here with us is context context and that's how I'm seeing the current understanding that time setting is that we really need to look at context let's have a go at this logic that we spoke about at 17 Mr 6.36 playthrough Kathy joins cry yeah what what is this made contacts to the second happen in context the second advent time study to the second Adam let's apply that sorry we're 17 in March 6.3 yeah did just I don't but no I'm sorry I was trying to get there I thought it's destroyed told she's talking about at least when she's commenting on a prophetic time the end of the prophetic periods has spoken of by like the twenty five twenty twenty two hundred years that all these those specific time prophecies are now fulfilled or completing this is the moment in specific to this passage the one that says time shall be no longer but the people should be prepared to stand in the latter days there's an obvious tie-in between time and that is the increase of knowledge that prepares you to stand in the latter days just by the context of that so no that's what I want us to see that the increase of knowledge is the knowledge about time we know that because the unsealing that the little book was what I mean such a message in relation to time the unsealing begins here in 1798 so in 1798 the unsealing begins and the unsealing is on time and what are they talking about when it says time sorry this is perfect time this is the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 that's what that's what their messages they understand at least that much even though they don't fully understand the judgment I'm not arguing that the 2520 is the first prophetic period that they come up with and it's connection to the 2300 days but this unsealing of time is really the 2300 days that's the focus of the Miller right message otherwise it's quite clear about that I think then I'm saying this is 1840 because this is revelation 10 she's clear about there and it says no more time and the increase of knowledge has happened this statement here 1798 took you put 44 we know that they're talking about 1843 this one here is just a confirmation of the information that went on here when it says time no longer it says we confirm we verify that what we said here is true it's based upon prophecy in revelation 10 this is their witness that says when we said that this time no longer back here there really is time no longer we can prove it now here and the language that we use currently is the empowerment of the first angels message it was stated as a theory now it's been proven to being true because you've got these testimonies that bring you to the stated fact that Christ is about to return here or the judgment even if we just say the judgment whatever that event is not trying to make an argument that it's executive or investigative so when it says time no longer here it really is saying that whatever we believe about Daniel 8:14 is true it's not saying let's not do let's not do any more time prophecies because in fact it's saying the opposite isn't it if this is 1840 it's saying we need to do some more time prophecies brother Theodore um and put that connection to Daniel chapter 12 because in Daniel chapter 12 the prophecy that is fulfilled in Revelation 10 is the 1,335 days and in the context then of that there shall be time no longer this is referring to that blessing that happens after the first disappointment where they are given this further increase of light it's in the in determining the end of the 2300 days at least that's how I understand it so this this applies to exactly what you're saying that when they get to the end of that thirteen hundred and thirty-five days in that waiteth and cometh through those days those that go through that experience then receive this increase of light which is a time prophecy and so I don't know how that relates and I've looked at at different ways but in Revelation 10 when it says thou must prophesy again before many peoples nations tongues and kings I've never known whether to apply that to that period in the seventh month movement or to a period after October 22nd 1844 in the context we usually make an application that that's referring to the time that we're in but I've never known I don't know if I'm jumping ahead too much but everybody understand what he's just say so we've covered this in class this bit for those of us who were in class that is that a reasonable refresher brother Clayton does that make sense contextually I don't want to belabor it in further for the class if you've gone over it yeah but other people don't get it inna I heard four different answers when you asked the question after I said it so I was embarrassed I just might think the same 44 ounces to Jerry with that analysis you guys don't know a thing than before yeah did did we at one point in this ministry between 1989 and now we have taught what I just said yes unequivocally okay so all I am is I'm easily I'm 10 years behind right with my comment there whatever long ago we taught that a couple of weeks act only only weeks behind because everyone's in the same place that you are they weren't struggling with the same struggle that you are which is why even though we spent enough couple of hours doing this you get four different answers okay this this late in the game this was still 40 fraud because we don't with a single voice understand this history in the context of reading that passage and I wish I wish I could read it in front cuz I don't have it but the the I think I understand where but I don't understand your point on where you're saying when it says no time no more or longer that it means that we we should you made a point just a second ago that that kind of means reverse and I don't understand okay so I'm going to go down to what sister Bronwyn said they say like context context context so we have to go back to try and understand the context so why did we come to 70 anymore let's just trace our steps brother Phillip why did we come here what the frame yeah the increase of increase of knowledge so we going recruit annoying why did we do that because I'm saying the great controversy passage we saw all of this which is the end and he says it's 144,000 I'm asking where do they begin the anchor point I want us to pick up is the term final generation because they're translated so it can't be back in 1844 can't be 1798 so where do we begin their journey and we say you know almost like a reflex action at the time at the end and then he and that's all correct so that's why that line is this long then brother Phoenix said well there's an increase of knowledge that will prepare you so we went here to read it and the increase of knowledge is at the time at the end and so that all fits so what I wanted to do was go back and as a refresher say well let's remind ourselves what's what he's talking about here with brother John Harper Bell so I asked brother Philip what is the context of all of this and he says it's the end of the world and I'm saying I don't think it is I think it's Miller right history that she's referring to what Harper bellies doing he's tearing up Miller right history and inventing his own thing so there's that there's a history of why he's doing that he's basically a disgruntled seventh-day adventists who's been mistreated and this is another layer on top of this this is the 1888 time period if you see when these letters were written she's in Australia she's writing this I think he's 96 they're about so there's number of things happen he's been mistreated Oh Harper Bell is our premier teacher hi I guess you were a high school teacher it he's our present he's our premier person who understands the education work and basically he gets sidelined you know when we did we took that work-study program all of those concepts I had to teach people he's the one that's pushing all of this and he gets sideline from someone who's gone to some fancy university and where he should have been promoted to a job as I think like it's the the principal of a college or something and because he doesn't have the qualification doesn't have letters behind him he gets promoted so there's all these thing going on and because I guess he gets bored he started he changed the prophecy and starts doing his own thing maybe he wants to make a name for himself so she's talking about his understanding of what's going on because this is 1888 there's an argument that's happening in 1888 the Wagner and Jones and now tearing up church history they're coming up with this new message which basically says let's downplay Sabbath and let's upgrade your personal experience justification by faith and they're doing all this in the context of the third angels message and every Adventists know the stone angels message is Sabbath in that history and they say in what that might be good but we don't want to talk about that we want to talk about your sin problem and this that they say that's got nothing to do with the third angel's message and we know that they're wrong and Ragland Jones is correct which is why Ellen White says I've been preaching this for ages right from the very beginning and that's true from 1850 onward one of the primary points that she wanted to talk about is the nature of man she actually says that the components of the third angels message or present truth is the Sabbath the nature of man and think the testimony of Jesus and I'm saying that's what the point of the 1888 message is that's why she can say this is the beginning of the righteousness of Christ you have to introduce the nature of man study into the third angels message so did he struggle in the church between Radner and Jones and the structure about what are the roots of Adventism where do we come from Bell has his own theories now about how he's going to apply all these prophetic prophecies and he's coming up with these strange theories and one of them who wants to rewrite history so she's setting him straight here saying let me tell you about the first second first and second angels messages where they were put in history and we shouldn't be moving the way marks so I'm suggesting based upon a letter that's written in the 1888 time period to someone who's got misconceptions of prophecy as she always does she wants to take us back to the beginnings which is the Miller history and she says all that what happened then was true and we've lost our direction since then so she said to him get back on the path get back on the track so that's my argument to say that it's the millerite history that she's dealing with we went to those paragraphs before and after and I think she's talking about Miller right history we go to revelation 10 and we know revelation 10 his miller right history so the question is how is she using that phrase there in Revelation 10 verse 6 time shall be no longer how does John use it in Revelation 10 and I'm suggesting that what's being brought to view here is the discussion about the Miller right history and in its original context the purpose of revelation 10 that takes the message from the United States and makes it worldwide is war it's a confirmation of William Miller's methodology that there's a distress in Europe the distress in Europe is based upon radical Islam Egypt Egypt has radicalized and the Europeans are distressed about what's happening that's revelation 9 based upon the time prophecy that you can see here in 1840 the fulfillment August 11th 1840 which is going to show that the methodology that William Miller is using is correct and it produces an impetus to the movement and the impetus of the movement the movement is teaching what the end of the 2300 days is going to be here the when it says time she'll be no longer prophetic time ends here in 1844 no more time means the prophecy ends here it doesn't mean there aren't going to be any more prophecies it's talking about specific prophecy the 2300 days and your April 20 it will end here 1840 is a confirmation of that so in 1840 we say yes we agree we can prove that the 2300 days is going to end here it doesn't extend past 1843 I put 80 I'm not making the point about 43 24 that's what he's being spoken of there so another point that brother Theodore picks up and we've discussed this in class remember what way mark is this brother Daniel 1840 knowing that light another threat another phrase another symbol I'll see this yesterday no that's empowered with midnight cry thank you ma'am Larry so this is the midnight cry yeah I want us to really understand this because what's about to happen in four years the the true midnight cry so I call that TMC it gets so bad by the way that history that what a snow has to do because he's getting blanked out yes to publish his own magazine because them the people who should have been supporting him say yeah we're not gonna we're not gonna publish your work so he says okay I self publish that's August 21 22 August 22 1844 so he's gonna sell probably they call it the true midnight cry and I'm saying this they don't day that because they wrote they won't use this phrase if that's a true midnight cry this is the false midnight cry they don't use that phrase they call it what sister Alissa they say it's alarm so no I don't need putting that within the phrase false I don't think it says false check but I don't really use of the phrase false they say that was the alarm this is the thing if we can explain it that way and this is what what they going to have to preach again time because now the movement is so jittery Miller is publicly going to rebuke snow and tell him we've already been burned on time saying when do we get burnt on time saying sister sequester when did we get burnt on time saying which month you ready to 1844 he said 1843 brother Bob April April so April this chart collapses they can't use the chart anymore because they'd have to rub that out and it would just be so humiliating so they put the chart aside and Miller says we're not going to do this time setting thing anymore so when snow resurrects this although this was vague but when he resurrects this one the movement is not happy because we already know time setting is wrong so now they're going to have to preach again a second time so that's why you get these - midnight crisis is for this you found that it's just so long yeah it doesn't say false they don't have this they never go back and trash their message they never do that they know that God has been leading and all they say is we'll just adjust that's that's that that their perspective they're thinking they were just so I'm saying the time no longer is leading you to 18 44 43 they're going to have to preach again which is this knew the true midnight cry as opposed to the alarm of the midnight cry and I think context see that's what it's talking about that you have to preach this message again we make an application we take all of this and bring it outside and we don't do that willy-nilly Ellen White is going to talk about you know there's no more time she's going to use I'm not saying directly revelation 10 quote we do it that way but she's talking she's referring to this thing so when it says time shall be no longer in this history they're saying time is the message of the moment this statement here time no longer is saying the 2300 days time is about to be fulfilled it's a message about time not a message against time so we get that phrase because of Ellen White and we totally twist it but the twisting I think we've twisted it too much and we're not understood what other white said what does she mean brother Tyler over here when she says time no longer none of those prophecies extend past 1844 it's nailed to 44 and so you can't go further with those specific prophecies so they're trying to do futurism with it I guess so what what we've done is we've taken this race time not long and we think it's about time it's not about time all those statements are about one singular point which is October 22nd 1844 she says you have no authority to move that way mark because that's what all that time setting stuff is about they want to adjust this move it to explain what's gone wrong and she says no you can't time no longer means you can't change Daniel 8:14 it's fixed the first angels message had its fulfillment October 22nd and you can't go about changing it I'm suggesting that's what she means so it's not even yeah I'll leave it at that brother day 1840 is 22 October 22 because danger of religion 10 is the first angel and in 1840 danger says here God gives me Laurie because the hour of the judgments so it's pointing to the time of judgment so when she says when revelation 10 verse 6 says time shall be no longer it's point into 1844 if time of the judgment is as we've already taught it sister Cathy it was when they were setting new dates for the second Advent is when she was saying that you're moving the way marks of the prophetic and after 1844 disappointment then new dates were coming but they were pointing to the another advent of the Lord yes which resulted then in affecting the prophetic dates so it's not just about moving that way mark it's actually changing what the way mark is because now in this history they know that October is not the second Advent anyway they realize this is the beginning of the investigative judgment of the Dead so it's not just even moving the date and the reason are the reason people are moving it is because they're still holding on to error which is the point I'd research the point since the Cathy was making but I'm taking that from what she said this was their understanding of that date was wrong fundamentally they said this was a second Advent they know afterwards that it isn't so time setting is not just moving the day it's what it's a rejection of this whole movement so we have to even see in that context it's the rejection of the sanctuary message so I'm saying time setting is going to destroy the Miller right line and it's going to destroy the sanctuary message and if you uphold the sanctuary message just based upon that logic is it is all about time brother Tyler sister do we have any from my understanding the only thing they ever try to move like you're saying is the second coming there's is there any other evidence that they ever set another prophecy for something else some other time element because as I think about it I only I only can think of times where they're trying to move the second Advent or take prophecy yeah I'm gonna say I don't know maybe my version of events he's overly simplistic but that's my understanding of it I'm sure it has implications and other things sister Tamina rebukes those people worth setting time and changing the way marks two aspects as well as the dates isn't that what we should accuse the Church of today because they are sort of then time setting will start changing the way mark or the aspects about it and if so what do we call them what we are doing now I think we can reboot them this epic story for them really is we are then I'm gonna say I think what we doing yeah I mean we're saying since wet summer that we're saying okay we we need to time set again now you just phrase that time setting is to change the way Mike's changed aspects about it destroy the sanctuary understanding so how can we know you just you just twisted everything that I've saved really it's like that okay we say to them please I don't want to walk out here with it really when she says time shall be no longer yeah I actually used to read it the prophetic time shall be no longer after October 22nd 1844 and I still I think you can still read it like these things because when you say well you know you watch the weather and you say you know Sun shall be no longer or rain shall be no longer it doesn't mean that it's never gonna come back it might refer to a period of time where it's not gonna be time and then it might come back it's not not it doesn't say it - a time shall be no longer forever you understand my point now okay we feet I what I say is that when you say something like time shall be no longer it might mean just for a temporary period it doesn't say time shall be no longer forever okay so that's what your site so you're gonna say time to bring along a now but we can do it later on but because we know there's this discovering and gathering the gathering and scattering and the during this gathering there's no time element and the gathering so I was connecting these two to that thought okay so there is the there would be a scattering if I follow through with your logic and you're gonna say there's no time now but in the future there might be okay that's what you're saying here I understand that you have to simplify it so what prophetic time is there let afterwards what we use a perfect time what's your definition a prophetic time using using periods of time types or prophecies from the scripture to numbers like 1:26 see that was that Millerites date or baiting them much more how to say basically I mean we we don't we don't take I don't see what call it literal like they not literally use the deer day principle but they did it from a face reading of the scripture for example if we would find there is a seventy between some date and some day then that leads to the future probably would mark a 70 but you can go back to the scripture and find it on out of 70 years I guess what the reason I asked that question is which he says there's no more prophetic time does she mean that well did she not mean that because if he doesn't mean that then we have to have to fight some new prophetic times which I don't think we found all you have to recycle that information so how do you how should i define prophetic time because in the same way that she does contextually how they did so just the time prophecies from Daniel revelation the classical ones like 1260 to 2300 but what we do now with let's say 490 years from that lead us to 2019 we put the 490 years there is that a time prophecy or is it not I don't know I see what you're saying we're we're we're using the perfect guy we're not inventing new ones we're using the identify ones that have been used in the scriptures from the very Guinea there is no more time it is the same ones just applied for our generation zone your thighs okay okay so I'm not sure I'm saying that I'm clay did you understand sister to mean this question okay third issue no I I didn't get more and more confused because I hear so many different things and I they're not jiving to me what you're saying it seems too consistent but what everybody else's comments don't seem to flow with that so I'm a little confused when you explained it and there was no other comments on your last long explanation of this it made sense to me for a moment until people start talking again no succeeding so I'm not being rude to anybody please forgive me so does everybody understand this what I've just what I said here yeah okay we understand like where did that make sense no more time after 1844 that's what that phrase in revelation 10 means they're going to have to repeat the message again the midnight cried the true midnight cry we're going to take all of that and we're going to make applications in a different dispensation in a different way and because it's so ingrained in us we haven't we haven't realized that we are we were ever doing that let me try and do this if this is Miller right history and they say time when they say no time what do they mean they mean it's about to end here they actually mean there is time there is time now when it's going to end in a minute in a moment here Ellen White's gonna say no time and what does she mean she says no time she says it ended in 44 because and she also means that this is the sanctuary message or don't move the way mark so I'm I'm putting another layer which he says no time reading to that that was the sanctuary don't move the sanctuary because in fact when you say don't move it what you're actually doing is destroying the sanctuary message this is evangelical Christianity basically and she knows I'm not saying she that he has cognition of this 44 to 50 we discussed yesterday that philadelphia extends to their and so once we go to 50 and i'm saying from 50 this is when we become lady seer and what is the legacy in condition how did it come upon us we've discussed this vaguely but i want to see if we've picked this up this latest in the condition that comes upon us in 1550 what is it and how did it come upon us scatter interest no time so I want to put this story this this narrative Satan has a planning meeting with his angels of a war plan he says we can we've got two groups two people to deal with we've got the world and the church and we have to deal with them in a separate way we'll deal with the world in one way so I'm not talking about that because real it's about the church how do we deal with the church the way we deal with the church is we can't make them go into spiritualism because the church won't go into spiritualism no we talk about that often because it's that we kind of make this play on words spiritualism is doing your own thing and not listening to God's words I understand that that definition but in the context of this meeting he's saying what we'll do is we'll turn their focus away from the Bible and make them focus on materialism if we can say later see in his materialism and that's kind of the version that we have then we extend later see that we're not nice people and I'm saying ladies here isn't that what he wants us to do is stop reading Daniel and revelation so if you're if you have a nice house and a nice car and a good job you'll stop reading Daniel and revelation and be focus upon your car and if you stop reading Daniel revelation you're going to do what you're going to miss the third angels message so this issue here about lady SIA when it begins it's basically to take us off the third angels message through we don't preach the Tator third angels message that's what lady seer is 63 happens and it begins what this begins the scattering of 126 years - 1989 and in 1989 we're going to say what come out of babylonian captivity and what is babylonian captivity no time we're going to change your manipulate this concept of what Alan White was doing and we're gonna say we can't do any time anymore and so we come up at 1989 and we're gonna recycle this history back here because there's the people who are going to stand in the latter days they're going to go to an increase of knowledge on what subject time and as we're doing this we don't even know it and that's what the problem is we don't even know our increase of knowledge is on time because we've been corrupted by aft parents our fathers they corrupted us so we don't even know what we're doing we don't have the carroty that the Miller rights had so we've had to go through these painful torturous experience to say okay our message is on time we've actually I should bite that bullet so when they say no time they're saying we're in a period where with time setting and it's going to end here Alan White says stop moving that sanctuary message there's another layer on this because there's more quotes in just this one because she's going to give some other strong quote but I'm just going to use that in that context the latest in message the scattering of Adventism is the scattering of a prophetic message which is all about time I'm suggesting we come here in 1989 the scattering ends there's going to be an increase of knowledge on time so now we're going to get back and we're going to repeat Miller right history but because we were in such a bad condition 1840s what event 9/11 that's the someone just said the midnight cry 9/11 is a midnight cry then I'm going to go to 2014 18 and this is the true midnight cry and when the true midnight cry happened if you go back into here you know there's a problem about time saying there's an internal argument about can we time set or not and snow wins the argument the movement gets on board so this is why it's the true midnight cry as opposed to the old midnight cry brother Theodore the people who have attacked us from the beginning about us being time centers with 1989 and 9/11 they were correct yeah because we were really setting time just we didn't know it yes and we located them by saying we're Ebates says yes you know and we know you these events you know okay they're events but it's been a long time that we've known that 9/11 was time with no 1989 is topping time for eight years perhaps seven years quite a long time but we would argue well it's in the it's in the past we didn't identify 89 as a time as a predictive time we did it in the past so ever all day we had all those arguments at the time but now we can go to every single one of these dates virtually you I'm sure you can go to 89 2001 2014-2018 and you can do all of those using the 25 20 the 25 20 is the key that unlocks time for us in a way that's taking us by surprise and I'm saying this is why the church unknowingly has Ward against the 25 20 because Satan knows when you get the 25 20 it becomes a key to unlocking time and I don't think we've realized that we've we haven't had that self-awareness but we do now you because you can take at least six way marks in our line and there'll be more there all are unlocked by the twenty five twenty whether you whether it's a 1260 or one to six or one five one you can show that so the time the people who say no more time here who is that that's us we're saying no more time and we mean this the time prophecies about to end if we're okay with that is that cases to demeanor so the no more time people is us here it's a positive statement we're saying the time is about to end just like the Miller writes did what's complicated is because there's another group here who fight against us let's say by the way we want to borrow this term and we don't want to do any more time and that argument here we've got two groups of people saying no more time is the same argument you've got back here in this history they call it what who's their opponents yeah it's the people who have the thousand years or the millennium the millennium says there's no more time we don't know when Jesus is about to come back and if he does come back it's a spiritual coming back they all get spiritual eyes the way so the arguments are exactly the same sort of differences between the two by the playfun I know if they're on the other line you just did with the bill right history the 911 then I cried down there with the alarm that Alyssa came up with because it's the alarm people who manipulated 911 as a type which is not and we got what if the Millerites think about 1840 they thought we're here that's mark in 1843 so there are subtle differences between their hairline and odds for a 911 we're saying this is the thing and we begin to realize that it actually is not the thing it begins this this whole history of the former rain that's going to lead us down to the Sunday law and now obviously our message has been it's quite complicated now in that's in that sense but it's not a thrashing of 911 it's a recurring equation of what 911 is so then we say if I say midnight crying true midnight cry if I say alarm and true midnight cry we thought just a one simple way is this was the latter rain now I'm saying no that was the alarm that the latter rain is going to happen but we're going to cry again a second time with we said laughter rain and now we're saying latter rain if you take that just that those words I'm suggesting we're not wrong now because it's the true latter rain we don't we're not making a mistake now because back in snows time July and August he's not making mistakes everything's correct were you getting that it sounds like you're reading from someone in fact what we do with time setting is we confirm reinforce and explain what those weigh marks are this group of people here are just ripping up history we're defending history let's pray Heavenly Father we give you praise and thanks for the great light that you shine upon your people here at the end of the world may each of us father be impacted by these thoughts and ideas not only intellectually but may we have a spiritual experience associated with this intellectual knowledge so that we might be the people that you want us to be we're now farther in the time period of the former rain proponents for the Sunday law but we see that this former rain it's a time period in which we have very specific tests to pass we find ourselves farther as priests in the time period that the midnight cry hope each of us to settle into this truth and be prepared for the events that are soon to come the offer a blessing upon the food that you give to us now in Jesus's name Amen