(10-02-17) - Revelation 13 p.2 - (tMlYwzSQ7KQ)




Publish Date: 10/2/2017
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in the last class we were looking at a Ventus home page 127 paragraph 2 ok I'll leave for the moment that all this your Rebecca's home page 127 paragraph 2 and in the discussion of that we spoke about the seat and the seat took us or I took you to Revelation chapter 13 verse 2 let's read that verse the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard and his feet were as the feet of a bear his mouth is the mouth of a lion and the dragon gave him his power and his seat and great Authority so he got through most of this verse but there was just a couple of pieces of honest this to tidy up we decided that the dragon was home pagan Rome in this context where do we find that revelation comes from the cornet Satan great controversy 438 root paragraphs 1 & 2 we won't read that but just make sure that it's in your notes that you have a reference there somewhere then we said that he gives him and the hymn that we said in this verse is whom hopefully papacy yeah relatively straightforward gave him his power his see and authority what did we decide this power was military power yeah military power why does the papacy need military power a couple of artists a hydro yet they're a church aren't they so church they don't have their own army and when does this happen when there's the papacy receive military power which is 496 if you're gonna say 496 what we identify they find baptism a Clovis and it's Clovis pagan Rome yes every brief Hussein Hussein know some people say you know so if it's no then we go to backtrack the league says the dragon gave him his power so that must leave the dragon II - don't be taking right things you're gonna see their weakness feed product it's not it's not pagan Rome in that sense that it is pagan Rome but it's descenders descendant this descendant taking Rome it's 110 pagan okay we take this thing great yeah yeah so how do we prove the France is part of pagan run just I mean the different ways are doing is the simple proof this was one of the ten kingdoms of the payroll is divided into okay that's just a historical story that we they you and I might disagree on that's your reading of history revelation 11 13 what will that tell you with the peace in your blood so rebel actually let the 13 to tell you the history of road when we look at all excuse me look at all the kingdoms they transcend from Babylon so going back to what further Richard said and how regarding the 1/10 of the city in the word city in Revelation you start if you start doing that it's a least one tenth of the city there number to ask you what is the city why is it one tenth so you can have to still go back to somewhere else revelation 11 13 won't be the answer to the question we have to go to some of this more basic residents apartment okay I was gonna say I saw no chart insane kingdoms that's Frank's as much yeah okay we go through the chart okay that's at that side we could go to the chart everything I've just got looking at my notes we were going into the two cities Jerusalem and Babylon and that's how we're getting to France because France becomes the new manifestation of satanic power okay I'm not thinking anything that complicated it's identically did this thing's laughs at all doing a certain Dan you said that okay yeah that's we wanna go to Daniel 7 Daniel Simmons we're going to find the arts really we could go to down YouTube we even down you to can be problematic because the way down you can be structured the way the verses lunch they bring down you seven seven seven that were you want to go to heaven seven maybe so maybe not this is where it gets complicated for me cuz I'm doing different studies and I'm not sure what we did in class or what we did in another cloud so you in bed for seven seven yeah okay let's look at 7 7 what 7 7 ok so it's the fourth beast we can see that so if it's the fourth beast we're going to line that up with go back to Daniel - they're going to line that up with the fourth Kingdom yeah so you've got these fourth Kingdom and each is not going to identify it as pagan Rome so how would you identify it as paper and simply load you go when we do so if you want to if you're trying to identify I mean not a complex way but just by inference even I'd go to Daniel legs it's in Daniel a you've got Peter Persians and the Grecians identified by name haven't you yeah and then it says the little horn so by deduction if you put all three chapters parallel one to another you know this is the kingdom that comes after Greece if it's the kingdom that comes after Greece you can go to the New Testament but he'd need to really go to his denoting new Testament you can identify the next peg in Rome so it's pagan Rome so what's let's toast tidy that up and if it's pagan Rome how do we know that France is pagan Rome or not what's what's the logic that we're going to say we've seen classes like this if we didn't do it in class I'm asking maybe too much of you it's absolutely through the revision but it might not be so this tradition that weekend as well okay so if we did that we went from here to revelation 11 then we did pick up this point what's the logic that we're going to say that France is pagan Rome are we identifying that this species pagan Rome oh okay we're doing that yet it's an iron-based we're gonna just look it up with the iron legs right okay so the satanic power is somewhat different it's not gonna be picked up here because if you're going to use a satanic at work it's it's a different thought that we're trying to bring up when we do that there's something different that we need to pick up here so people wanted to go to Decker seven seven okay so the beast that's ten horns where the hole is located which versus done right seven seven seven seven yes those suits my sister said it's in the head I see ways that identified not in seven seven is it it's eight seventy eight says in the head is it right revelation 12:3 there's seven heads and ten horns if we go to Daniel 7 we just need 7 7 we go to 7:20 and the ten horns that were in his head so he can prove that the hell want her in the head to rip the part of the head what's that teaching us because the head this is the picture of the head the head is pagan and the fact that they're attached to the head means they're what they're part of pagan Rome because it's the same beast the whole Beast is pagan Rome isn't it you can't yeah you can't prove it because he's not going to tell you you have to do a lot of detective work or at least a fair amount which is why I said if you went to that in your two and seven you can line up the legs with the Beast then you have to go to Daniel a and he told you to the two animals the RAM and the goats are me the Persia and Greece and then you've got a little horn so you haven't quite a bit of work to show that then you have to go into the New Testament so to do that work maybe you could pull up her spirit prophecy quote the great controversy one for instance so you're not going to pull up a Bible verse to prove that this beast is pagan Rome that's it's not that straightforward so if this heads and the whole thing the whole beast is pagan Rome it's part of the Beast it's part of the same system okay so we did that so we can go so we're back in 11 sorry 13 so we know that if we can interchange between France and pay around that's what I want us to see that this interchange can happen yeah why is that important to see when we're going to make application at the end of the world why would you if you were going to develop an argument or develop a study why would you want to set this up the very beginning to identify that France and pagan Rome become interchangeable entities this new manifestation of Hispanic power thing because you want to stablish the people you people see a set up and how it's taken down okay so it's something to do with their setting up and they're taking down at the papacy that's gonna be something that with you that we all wouldn't we already want to set up in your argument when you're going to make an endtime application type for the United States we both know type for the United States okay so um we're coming from revelation 13:4 a student there it says his power and his we identified as pagan Rome rich onto the continent great controversy tells us so it's France but I'm kind of envy and I think that's why we were going there to prove that France is pagan Rome yes so that's what we're doing so my question is why is it important for us to even make this point do we want to see that France and paper own become two interchangeable entities what would be the logic called the reason that we want to we want to pick up when we make an application at the end of the world so we've been looking at the nature of man and the nature of man is what but not not the details of it but its threefold but it's not only threefold what else is it it's also two fold and then why it's not going to tell you it's twofold but she uses a phraseology that makes it two fold what is that phraseology she uses higher and lower powers so you can see there's this relationship between the two and the three yeah so if you go to Revelation 13 verse two how many powers are they two powers yes bring reality how many powers are they with three pagan Rome France and the papacy you've got these three - combination that's running through this thread so at the end of the world how many powers come against God's people three yeah where would we find that or who are they the dragon the beast and the false prophet where would you find that revelation 16:13 revelation 16:13 six mana dragon the beast and false prophet now this causing this problem sometimes because the imagery that's being used sometimes doesn't avail itself to the point that we want to make because you can run these different ways but who are the three powers at the end of the world without lining them up particularly the UA the USA so if you use that phraseology you've got three powers what is the UA it's not not who is it why is it that's it's that the extent of its power is it a church this is the state or a government and what you see United States government it's the government in the papacy of the church so these two are one entity so you've got a church state relationship to so this idea of having three and two is inbuilt into our message it's an important concept for us to understand and it's not coincidence it's part of the nature of man because God wants to do a number of things about the reformed lines that we understand or to teach us many things one of them is to teach us about ourselves and obviously to teach about endtime prophecy so the reason we want to understand that it's the United States and the UN that formed this government is because why would why you see the why why is it important because we're just done it here and this hit we've just done it here back in history that we make them interchangeable so in in Revelation 13 we make France and pagan Rome interchangeable entities even though historically they're not the same they do different things different activities at different times because we wanna make specific points which is important for us to see that because at the end of the world you have the same dynamic yeah you've got pagan Rome France and the papacy or the Beast so let's take the Beast out of it which one is pagan Rome and which one is France yeah we're here so this is France people are saying so right and this one is Pegram room so everybody agree with that what's that so say say it's a growing go something okay you don't agree what so what do you want to put the other way around so she wants to put this as pagan Rome and she wants to put this as France the horns because it's a group to the UN - not to France it's easier to correlate the UN to the pagans I like it yeah it's a baby yeah don't disagree with it why you say that they're brilliant and that logic that was in us i transitions into the UN it comes first the USA transitions into the UA yes so you can't have France transition into Peyton house up in the other room okay see then really pick that up yeah we agree with that logic okay what was the logic so the important thing for us to understand because his issue comes up over and over again you know message so she's just say what is he just that anybody can refrain what she said thank you can everybody's did everybody pick that up she says it's the equation in history it has to be sequential at the end of the world yeah who agrees with that because no one's green with that yeah she says the uxie go to revelation 17 it's number six the UN DS number seven is that the point you're making and pagan Rome certainly came before France prophetically speaking at least so therefore it must be this way because she's going to use a sequential history to make a sequential application at the end of the world so why do we disagree with that commentators are sequential because what the conversations are sequential make is that luck is a dirty word you can they make you thank you know just that I was I'm sure of the way you were asking we use that term sequential has been brought up recently in the movement so I don't know if you are making an inference to that so I didn't wanna readily agree okay in our last class as well pointed out that while historical events happen sequentially here we have to go via line upon line yeah sometimes they're happening concurrently okay and you put it up so any other thoughts so some people say it's that way and some people said it's that way who's correct well so people are saying the USA can't be pagan so so right I because everybody six frogs did he say that people say we disagree the probable throat at some level so rather trying to say if now it's totally correct that is our time for we consider is this big enough to do movie that we do people on the toilet and he said he's for both so let me ask this question who's in Revelation 13 verse 2 pagan Rome these identify this between what the dragon and if we went to verse 11 what do we under what this verse 11 cite to us 13:11 okay no dragon yeah you know it excited hope that means they is who he says he speaks like a dragon so you should correct their doing that that's what she's done even though she approached it from a different perspective so maybe she's correct though from the Tigers correct okay so what is the role of France so if this is 538 and we drop back to 508 and we drop back to 496 in 1798 what's the part what's the wrong with the papers great France we can be on the wrong so it puts it on and then that's what I think so if we know that much information and we make a deadtime application which they can't I'd like that what is that you think okay take on take I think I know what you say I didn't understand I mean I was just because if it's that way in that way in the past would it be the opposite at the end before we make an application you talking what would be what you paint are we saying that is I'm saying it's a Sunday looks I mean they will agree with that Yeah right you think I wouldn't say that was wearing being yeah they came into power didn't they who's they take a paper paper home take your own comes into power at 5:30 a sorry know that there's some there's um it's not in my mind to countenance power but when it says put on what you mean by put on frog okay but what do we mean by that maybe it's not a good fragright can change if it's not a good way of expressing it it's just not clear to myself anyway so what Satan what did I mean by put on and take down I don't understand no sir promise me okay promises and also promise to give it I'm just going to just finish the sentence approach puts the papacy on the throne yet in France we take the papacy down or off the throat that's what I meant by that yeah so this is the Sunday loss in French we agree with that so what would this be construction ability 17 revelation 17 16 what eBay you make it sound like it's a trick question this is my trick this is sister I can't assume it's another who because you know because I don't know what they were everybody understanding what this club has parties so you know I'm not asking any trick question just asking them you know basic understanding if busy is 5:13 this is the Sunday law what is this probably the end contacted the sunbather lots of probation nation close the patient value 12:1 is everybody agree with that so if we weren't sure about that would it be too much to ask how we go to prove that at least one way of doing it there's always different ways to do it would anybody attempt that or not how we make this application looking nervous so I'm trying to understand is how we go back constructing our lines when we make one line into another line so we've said 538 Sunday law 1798 is Daniel 12:1 so the destroyed people out because justice Miller said this is the time at the end yeah so the time at the end is the beginning of something the way disdain it's the end of something does that causes problems this is the problem if you start taking things sequentially and run through that you get into an overly simplistic view of things but if you don't you start taking things up line upon line it becomes extremely complex you have to juggle things around now waiting for me to do something there's an end of modern the modern papacy so to speak just the beginning at the Sunday know we know that there is a end of the papacy so it would be fine for me to consider 79 every understand that so you said see 1798 can mean different things a bit at one level it's the beginning of something but it's also what the end so brother Jonathan is doing what this line is teaching because I think mo maybe I'm not maybe I'm reading into what you're thinking often we talk about the time of the end and the time of the end we often think is beginning something so that would be this history it's the beginning of something the beginning of the time at the end but that wasn't what this line was teaching this line was teaching this history so he says here it was the wound or the deadly wound that's inflicted upon the papacy and that's what he's marking here the death of the papacy my sister because Reagan was we were putting the papers in Iraq come on that's how starting to so we were starting to do that long before so what like in 89 can we put a date there like if we were putting it on our line or when the work is accomplished with those being set up again so like yeah so if you go back to the original diversities 5iy point here where we even where are we even when we doing this Daniel then you a are we Daniel 8 Daniel 8 11 Daniel 38 8:30 we did cover this in class because the the term day these used five times in the Book of Daniel three times in Chapter eight one in 11 and one in 12 and you have to use the correct verse in the correct place because if you're going to use Daniel 8 verse 11 is Daniel 8:11 even this history it's not Daniel 8:11 these hundreds of years before this it's not this history so we're gonna use 12:11 it's not animating is taking away of the daily or the sort of tasting or the setting up of it all I wanted to know is where we get these dates don't you on the charts trey is said don't do 12:11 taking away of the daily and then he's talking about the placing on st. up front in a little burst so 11 31 and 12 11 a very similar passages once it's to place the daily once it's the South the daily so that's that's lutely the realm that we're in here when we're doing that so the point I wanted to make when it says take away the daily in 12:11 it's a specific day with a specific event and then it says to set up or to place it which is afterwards 30 years later so that's a specific event as well so without making it too don't want to go into it in a complex way she wanted us to understand the relationship between this history here as it brings us to the Sunday law because the conversion of Clovis has some application at the end of the world the taking away of the daily has an application and 5:30 a would have an application so it's 1798 yeah so he's gonna die here is when they die here we've made that was made that application we can do that yet by 538 what has happened to the papacy he's now doing what he subdued is subjugated all of Europe and the three horns have been taken down and now he doesn't have any opposition yeah so he was ruling supremely that's the phrase we often use he ruled supremely we've no opposition we did we do it in class when he's he giving his seat because I don't have it I don't know have it in my notes I don't so don't think we covered that when this giving of the seat is 3:00 3:30 a just going to have his seat in 3:30 why do we say he's he's ruling to Apprendi here if he's already got his seat 200 years ago he doesn't have a military power can you just have a military power yet there we go okay so we'll put here he's ruling windy gonna be ruling at the end of the world must be the same history then listen it so how do we prove that brother Jonathan you took us to I think it was you took us to revelation 17 it was my would be mine are proof text their papacy has an end looking for the apron say I'm looking for this application here they have the ten horns they give I bet I'll get to that later verse 13 cake 1738 in the Telus walk the 10 horns give their power to the Beast and of course we know that the that there's an eight which is one of the seven seventeen thirteen you say well yeah I said thirteen these have one mind and shall give their power and strength unto the Beast tells me that the Beast as ruling power every wonder bring me that maybe we could read verse twelve the ten horns which thou sawest attain Kings which have received no Kingdom as yet but receive power as kings one hour with the Beast these are one mind and shall give their power and strength unto the Beast yes so this is one hour this was 17 12 and 13 agree with that yes so he's ruling supreme me here for one hour with the Kings which was typifying in this history yes so who puts the it who puts him on the throne France and who takes him off the throne France and who did this work here you were saying you mentioned Ron Reagan so this is United States that's doing this work here yes we've got the USA so if you SI put him on who's gonna take him off u.s. Lee so France is the USA we can agree we can see that yeah so where do we get the USA being pagan Rome are we going to make that happen what would be the reasoning behind that okay I agree with you friends and USA take the papacy down but in revelation 17 16 we leave the ten horns which thou sawest upon the Beast these shall hate the whore and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire revelation 17 16 yeah this is a question or statement that the question is I understand that the United States is friends at the end but I'm not too sure if I would put the United States that would prefer United Nations so now you're gonna put United Nations Nations bit at the beginning you're gonna use an Alpha and Omega looking in the a can't even call the U I know the USA pays 50% of the UN bills so they're the same thing it's still the USA yeah but the ten horns I'm just taking the symbol T it's the ten horns whoo-hoo so does being killed the papacy okay that's not good so let's go back into this history what happens in 538 pages that are writers a drug what else happens diffusion education just goes into boomers because you can escape persecution with respect to this thing I mean this money okay what do you mean this thing did they sleep or the only good ruler to Justinian yeah baby for 533 hit transition okay so what's happening here then Sunday law here this is something over here probably the only things sequentially which you can do historically is if we're going to say just a basic level this is the history from the 1980s to the Sunday law so if we said that that would mean that if this is just in Ian and Justinian know Constantine sorry Constantine he's walk pagan or papal pagan he's gonna make a Sunday law that must mean the United States we're gonna make if we're gonna make that application would have made Sunday laws or some kind of Sunday law long before the 1980s but before the 1980s what religion was the United States Protestant at some level you might disagree with that because you could go back to April the 19th 1844 and make it Catholic I guess at one level but at least on the surface it wasn't doing that so we normally take this Sunday law and put it where in our line somewhere in here that way yeah so we're going to get this and place it here so over and over again you see the problems with Ronnie think sequentially at the end of the world it's not that straightforward to do that does everyone understand what I just did what the point I was trying to make the connection then between the USA and paganism I get the connections in France but I'm not getting your point with this okay so the United States so the UN which is this one world government should go right back to the very beginning it's always been spiritualistic in nature and it's never changed it's never changed its form or its religion but the United States changes the form of its religion exchanges from one religion to another so back here in 321 where if we're going to make this a symbol of pagan Rome it becomes the United States because here Khans constantine changes from paganism to papal is amit changes its religion and we know that's what America is doing or has done spiritualism never changed its religion the America the United States did he did it back in 1844 and it's been just a progressive work but we make a specific marker about the Sunday law that constants and the constantine puts in place in 321 and we say that must have some application at the end of the world so the United States is going to make some kind of Sunday law that proceeds the 5:38 Sunday law because we're saying this is the Sunday law that's one of the reasons why yes this would be this would be that what we call the National Sunday law where you prohibit sabbath-keeping and you promote Sunday keeping in its enforced by law but the law that Constantine makes here at the beginning doesn't have all the trappings of this law here that the papacy makes their goodness is it's the start of this process so the point out all I was making is that it's pagan Rome that does this work typify in the work of the United States not typifying the work of the UN and so if this is the United States and this was the the build up from the 1980s of the Sunday law we don't have any markers to say that the United States made Sunday laws here but we certainly are making an application for this son law in this history somewhere where we say there's going to be blue laws of some kind they're going to start adjusting or repudiating elements of the Constitution even if it's a Sunday lowering some kind of type all I wanted to see was this 3:21 cannot run sequentially at the end of the world this then gets taken as a separate component and gets tucked in here somewhere so there's this danger if you keep on running things sequentially I just want to share if you're looking at the litem from 538 to 1798 you know the papacy ruled for 1260 years and then if you bring it to our time you see that you've got the ruling with the ten Kings for one hour and if if we're lining up 538 with this Universal Sunday law then you know that if it's there with that one hour then you know in our time the array have the UN is this fully onboard and and the sovereignty of Nations is gone even though the United States might be playing a pivotal role in the UN's but you've got the UN or there you've got France USA right there you at the end of time you've got the UN it is UN there and that's what that's the very point that broadly Johnson's making yeah Rob Larry for me to try to understand the USA as Rome I go to revelation 17 verse 11 and it says and the beast that's the fourth Kingdom that's Rome out of the eight that was and is not even he is the eighth so the eighth we know is modern Rome right and modern Rome typifies the threefold Union beast a dragon in the pulse problem so if you have the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 the fourth Kingdom is rolled and then you got the 5th 6th 7th and 8th and the fifth is papal Rome 6 is USA the seven seas United Nations and 8 is modern home so the USA and in can typify modern Rome because they the seven that was what it's the six and it was of those three beasts dragon false prophet or making sense so might say to people just make sense to you hey make sense to me I think make doesn't make sense to anyone else just do me and make money throughout this because no one's fade anything yeah I don't mind if we don't participate and we remain silent but you walk away from the class just as well it's the ignorant but this is it uneducated as you came into the class and and you know somewhere down our experience we have to stop doing that somewhere along the line I presume if you want to grow if you don't understand things need to pipe up and say something because if you're not going to say think I'm not going to explain things to you if you don't say that there's a problem because I'm assuming there isn't a problem so I'm just going to carry on moving along and we don't end up getting anywhere look Babylon medo-persia Greece and Rome that's the first four kingdoms of Bible history and then who's the fifth Kingdom that would be our next question who's the sixth Kingdom who's the seventh and who's the eighth because it says here that the eighth it is of the seventh so when we go look at of the seventh that's the United Nations and the six of the USA so those three all make up modern Rome do you would agree with him now cuz I don't I'm not gonna do that now I think I'll be right there well I want to learn to sleep something on seventeen in a bit let's just come here then there's a Sunday the way yeah he's amazing that is because I want to show you can't do this sequential thing I want to do I want us to really understand that but so that's not what the point I want to make this come back to hear there's a Sunday law in 538 what is gonna happen now when you make this thundering 5:38 what's going to be the consequences of that by home persecution by whom by the armies of the business the armies of the papacy in the first acute home this morning something a good no no okay maybe yeah okay until we take the closest the Conservatives I make to the person who makes the Sunday little sorry Oh firstly make the Sunday law what the consequences of that national ruin who's gonna be ruin that take it a papal wrote similar who say Oh someone say something you say okay who you make a road already finished friends eventually taking off taste it they said national ruin and I said who's gonna be Ruby now 538 take this he'll take a road straight this planet okay I don't think the ruins happening in that moment I think it's approach it's gonna happen eventually the process the process I'm asking who is a who for who is being ruing now the purpose is going to get ruined seats the papacy not not it's not paying your own his papal Rome do agree with that because he's different to what some people say so once you paint your Sunday law now this that is the ruin of the papacy who's in the rooming them friends know that's right back here who's gonna ruin them because of the Sunday look did this on Thursday I wasn't here on Thursday okay Guzman it's love isn't it yeah isn't it Islam that's going to do this work now yeah okay so so here once a Sunday laws made Islam is involved yes we agree with that so let's let's put this 321 law back here which is a Sunday law and I'm gonna get this and I'm gonna flip it and bring it in here Sunday law one Sunday law - yeah who makes who's making these Sunday laws who's making this one pagan Rome who's making this Sunday law when pagan Rome makes a Sunday law what's going to happen to it first of all Trump is gonna punish them at the end of the world when pagan Rome makes a Sunday law who's gonna punish it Islam is and who made that Sunday law pagan Rome but whose Islam attacking today the United States so you know that the United States is a symbol of pagan Rome you said you said earlier a minute ago that in 538 that the papacy is gonna be begin to be ruined by our attack by by Islam the three woes yet but it's it's against them but it's it's really against their structure their their government but their civil government because it's against the Byzantines of the Byzantine Empire you know and it's not really against the papacy itself you know it's against its colonies against its armies and against you know did we get that yeah so let's set up a structure date my graphics are terrible this is a picture of Europe doesn't look like Europe I know okay here's Rome in the middle the papacy set up what's in the West what we gots up in the West it's a rodent papacy is in the middle right it's not just fry so is it okay so I put I put the seven horn yeah and I put in brackets the ten because he's one-tenth okay and who's on this side so we can say we'll take the Byzantine Empire now we're going to use that phraseology okay so this is indicator so this is the Mediterranean and this is North Africa that looks like that and then it goes into the Black Sea so this is North Africa and what's this it's a little pinch point this is the Straits of Gibraltar and this is twat this is the bratwurst rate so this is Constantinople here of Turkey yeah you know my Spelling's not good the Bosporus straights and this is the Straits of Gibraltar the Straits of Gibraltar and the Bosphorus Strait what is oh and what's over here Islam yes this is the Arabian desert so what's the role of these we'll say this one trumpet the fifth trumpet what's his purpose in life was it created for to kill and destroy what because of destroy people who make Sunday laws whose make the Sunday law this is 538 something lost yeah visit Byzantine they didn't make the Sunday like the papacy this made it here oh papal Rome so papal Rome made the Sunday law here and there's no way that you're gonna launch an attack against Europe via a navy it just will not work yeah they know that so you already got two ways to get into Europe what the two way can get Europe that's true it's the two straights it's the only way you can get across but in a realistic sensible wait so they're going to try both ways so if you come here who's going to protect you you're here he's coming for you who's gonna protect you seven horns you come here who's gonna protect you Byzantine Empire yeah and if you keep you going check you know history this is Spain here so if you go to southern Spain so then Spain all of its architecture its culture is what it's Catholic now but if all these architects trip a lot of it we call it it's not Byzantine you called it another name you've called it the Moorish or the Moors yeah it's all all the architecture and lot of the culture is Islamic because this is the route that is wanting to take to get into Europe and they were stopped but they also going to try and come in this way and what happens this stops so the armies of Rome got two armies the armies of Roma stopping Islam from coming and doing its work and we would call this pagan Rome and if we just call this France you can begin to see why the United States has these similar characteristics you don't see Islam coming and destroying these seven horns any of them who they end up destroying Byzantine Empire which is the eastern pagan Empire this is why this is this is the point the brother Tyler is making here in the 538 even though they're not actually attacking the papacy they're attacking the army of Rome and the army of Rome is who pagan Rome it's not France in this context we said we Kage I think we know that kind of history no based upon that diagram the Byzantine Empire is identifying that it's the United States that are under attack primarily because all I'm saying is that the United States has these two roles one role is as France and one role is as pagan Rome it fulfills both roles at the same time it has all the characteristics of Frost it places it upon the throne and takes it down but it's also the primary protector of the papacy that's why America is taking all the hits that's why they're the ones that are at war with pagan Rome primarily I guess yeah yes so America takes both of these roles that's the long version of why we can make France and the pagan Rome this the same entity has implications when we think about endtime prophecy explains what's going on if you want to know what the issue is between Islam and the United States it's because the United States has taken the role of the Byzantine Empire the the primary protector of the papacy that's why Islam is after them it also teaches you even though we do a study of Balaam numbers 22 at the very end Islam isn't even going to accomplish its task yeah what's its task is to punish people who make Sunday laws and it failed in the fifth and the sixth trumpet first and second woe it failed then to do its work and it's going to fail again yeah we can see that sometimes you don't think we don't talk about it that way but it will it'll fade in it's in its mission and so someone has to clean up the mess and who's going to clean up the mess tonight is safe it's the United States that are going to clean up the mess Islam filled during the time of from 538 to 1798 and it was France that came and just pretty quickly did the work that it couldn't do and it just walked right into Rome so that would be the same thing at the end they're gonna fail during this this time that but then the United States France you're gonna come in and just do the work so we've done seat the seat we're replacing the seat sometimes I think someone will really say in three thirty so if we're placing the seat at 3:30 Constantin mousse why do we place the seat here at three thirty not the seat here at five thirty eight without going either or into the history or anything like that what principle or concept is that teaching us if you think about it adventists to go to the great controversy or any evangelistic campaign where do they place the papacy ruling the world here yes is that correct I mean it's correct it's you know they're ruling week you've got Bible verse revelation 17 he says they're going to rule for one hour yeah all opposition has ceased here at 538 it's going to rule for 1260 so this is so Adventism it is correcting it's in its approach to Bible prophecy because it's led that way and you have to do a lot of digging under the surface you know he'd either dig for his treasure to develop the arguments that we use because what is our argument that everything is progressive if you don't understand the progressive nature of prophecy you can't we don't if we don't even have a message it's it's the premier thing that we focus on over and over again if you don't see that you don't get anywhere with the you know like evangelical series our prophecy series its hammered who the dragon gave a mystic it's porn people I repeat CT able to eat turkey when constant I move from you know like but then that's what you're parked and you get believes the different chronological deeds I'm saying that because understanding that yes we see that the papacy move the world is son-in-law but how is it that we get it how is it that the church has gotten me to where we don't understand the sequential movements when it is something that is thought so yeah you're asking why is it that the church doesn't understand prophecy we messed up where it's rebellion III don't know well where we do know so we've got a prevent progressive destruction in for SPECT that lead us to this point brother time it's the same kind of principle with the latter and I guess you know it's if you don't understand that progressiveness you don't understand that on the latter rain works you don't understand everything is just at a point you know you lose the period kind of you know if you want to put it that way and is it wrong no because what the focus is on it's not so much with even the focus on the point what we haven't understood that it is progressive but we focus on what point the end point Adventist focuses on the endpoint why do we focus on the end point Advent the advert that's really the time limit that's what the whole point is none of lemon rephrase that I'm talking about at the end of the world so if we went to 1989 to the second advent is that what you mean by the advent yeah okay sorry because I'm white does we we didn't invent this idea not only the southern white the Bible does the same thing go to Revelation 14 the everlasting gospel what does it say in verse 6 it says the Gospel message is given to whom does he say the church doesn't save the church it says the world and who's giving that message to the world the church is given the message to the world yeah the whole we're funneled inspiration funnels us into this understanding that our focus should be at the end and here we come up this band of disgruntled Adventists for her in David and we say by the way you got it all wrong because we should the focus be the beginning and this is the problem that we have when we deal with our church brethren is that we're saying you need to focus on the beginning not the end and it takes a lot of effort to prove that and to show that and I think a lot of time we don't know how to do that maybe we don't even realize that that's what we're supposed to do but that's our that's our task to show that it's a progressive nature and we our focus should be on the beginning even though inspiration tells you it's at the end you know doesn't she say you can't have observed or a second with autumn so it doesn't she in even in that sense kind of points you back to having a clear understanding to the beginning I guess if I don't show you mean by it you can't have a third although the past it I don't know said what you mean by that so I'm saying man it's are we going to have the third which is this only law we don't understand in the progressive nature are they build up to it let me ask you a question totally unrelated to what you just say I'm not just for us to think about what's given here first dangerous message it says what okay so I'm just gonna put JP judgment yeah so what it says he's empty ninety eight the hour of his judgment is come it is comprehensible the next up we check like that it is enough easy that is yes okay so you tell me where to put the jaysis or the V you're dealing with the first angels message right we're dealing with the first angels message it's it's fear God give glory to him for the office judge I guess like that I just saw a guy it's saying that you see all three components combined in that first I don't know what that means you just tell me where to put a giant and put it that I'm not laughing at you sorry no I'm okay that's what we said in size confidence the combining you know where that no it don't we Jan no never give up both all three that's fine you simply put the judge is the outreach judgement is calm so just one of the way you put the J where you put that judgement can I do an explanation now just gonna be on sir I can't give you that then because it may not be judgment I was I didn't at the end of the explanation I'll get the answer so just give me the awesome and then you can explain there is an investigative judgment under than executed judgment so I cannot just say okay that's why tell me where you put ji ji for investigative where does it begin but you just tell me wait to put it right there you love me it's nice in the middle of no way every way where I want to place it up on the line which I place it before this tell me wait there we go and put it that sympathy okay so you're gonna put the judgement here brother Bob wants to put it here yeah so if you check it it's right I'm trying to wait you wait where were you place the start of it yeah so we would you put the end of it thing it didn't matter for because so you sister only being saying investigative judgment in revelation 14 verse 6 is 1798 and I don't think you can defend that with the spirit prophecy easily because I think in half the papers that I've got everybody says it's not that this prophecy quotes that you're using showed that it's not that so wouldn't that start the investigative judgment yeah cuz they were wrong I mean they thought the Lord was returning when in fact he was moving into the most holy place o'ciock because you're picking up the investigative judgment in them in the moving from the holy place of most holidays you're using that conditional Adventist perspective it she's not doing that she's doing something crazy something totally different he's using a whole different line of logic to make this point and this is the problem that we face we don't even speak the same languages the church her ji isn't isn't even the saint ji that you're talking about less estate it's not the same one that the brother Bob talked about it's a totally different thing I don't understand this ji that youth who is that who is that pointing to who's being judged when you wait in the way that you list thinking about it who's the people that's that that's happening to judgment because you're saying this is dead people sister all the being you're saying it is she saying it's living people Pope I think that started 9/11 those the judge no I must not understand this when the judgment at the Linnaean begin sort of baked in 1798 he says he began in 1798 I'll do it for me he's gonna say one thing he's only typology in time whether I'm not saying she's right but I'm just saying this is her logic the only reason I mention that is because when he says the early judgment is come she says it is here today but Adventists don't teach that okay let me ask you this question is sister on of e who's making that statement in 1798 what would correct it Karl Isis who's making a statement in 1798 that the hour of his judgment is come who's saying that milah it's not only doesn't literally say that that's going quickly 16 years old he's saying that tell me where the joy is for him for Milla where is his joy when he makes that statement it would be the future yes I wanted you've got put way mark way where is it vaguely it's at eighteen forty four forty three forty folks I don't maybe he's putting it here where I think he's put it so he's an Adventist he picks like an Adventist so we don't even think like Miller right sir the Millerites take you to here I think he's taking you here as it all I been saying he saw where everyone's wrong and we need to go back to here because we're looking at these things totally differently I don't think we realize that does anybody understand that that's the point that I'm just making I'm not explaining the logic behind it I'm not exhausting Adobe but just to see the point Miller is pointing you to 1844 our church in agreement with Miller take you to 1844 Alawite does most of the bible does and sister olivine says no they're all wrong it's 1798 no I mean this is this is literally so I don't don't get mixed up with that tight there I don't mean in the sense of like because it's online so a line is a real line this is an example you're saying the following that the bible does pushing us to the end yes it pushes us to a different place it may be also different another question now so these people just talk for broke provoked it and hopefully we're going to try not to some of these questions where'd you put the arrival of the third angels message in this history 3a because I've got one day here I shall do it for you because we're all gonna do this 3a okay so this is all the means not going to answer this one is that correct or incorrect Tyla this the arts are not the explanation white correct very correct depends how you're looking at it I guess I think it's corrected at one level yeah okay so if it's correct at one level it's then what then he's incorrect to one there oh yeah so it's incorrect so I know what what we call ourselves dan dan eleven people or whatever so if you're a Daniel 11 person is it incorrect or correct so incorrect if you're a Daniel 11 person if you're an item I say that there are traditional Adventist is it correct or incorrect it's great so it's correct or eco depending on who you are the way I understand it is because we understand that the first second and third angels message that arrived from 79 to 88 to 44 is an imperfect fulfillment of their combined and repeated from 1989 to the close relation our histories so let me ask you another question date with the first angels message perfectly fulfilled in the middle right history you said no sister would have been saying yes you're saying so some people are saying yes or no now we're not even sure I'm not terminology so some people say yes it was perfectly fulfilled for alert history so you agree with that yeah but for ours and it's it's a like a more perfect I guess it because it's going to be combined and repeated so it was it was fulfilled for them at their time but it's going to be fulfilled for us in our time was there a combining work that was done in the middle right history of the messages okay so I'm not trying out to that question yeah it means I'm a today it wasn't it wasn't to put people on the spot it was just a show this point here that I wanted this that I wanted to make here so let's just quickly come down to here 538 he's ruling through cream League so he's sitting on a throne yes he's got his seat here the papers he has his seat so before we even go to the history of that if you have a seat what is that seat an indication of or a symbol of what is a seat we can't say power cuz we already said power his military strength continues power Kingdom your own a kingdom yeah so the seat would be then what would be a throne with Nick yeah so he sits on his throne here in 330 and he's sitting on his throne here in 538 she's sitting on the throne for 200 years can we see that yes so that teaches us that at the most basic level I think he should have understood this which is what's his throne of integration is how did we miss this the the sitting on the throne is a progressive work yeah because he's sitting on the throne it's got all these subjects and when he tells the subject to it says jump and the subject doesn't jump what's he gonna do it's 3:30 anything because he's got he's got responsibility isn't he he's responsible for the kingdom he's got a sitting on the throne he's got responsibility but know what sorry here's no authority you've got responsibility but no authority so what does he need to receive know at the last part of the verse says you need to receive authority yeah so Bishop teaches about the progressive nature of Bible prophecy and it's not just some endtime week thing that we've invented it's right there and we in this message need to really become familiar with these ideas because part of the shaking that's going on even though we might not conceptualize it this way is a subtle attack upon the progressive nature of events and what we end up doing is thinking about we use concepts like typology like this was a type of this or we use phrases like it will be perfectly fulfilled for instance yeah so if we're not careful we come to wrong understanding of things which is why ask to provoke your question was the first angels message perfectly fulfilled in Malloy history I lost another one was the second angels message perfectly fulfilled your middle right history so people are saying no sorry and that's why I'm asking a question because then say about the fixes about the second it says it was not it was an imperfectly fulfillment I think so I'm asking when we look at it was it perfectly fulfilled or not it was perfectly fulfilled and the reason why and Alan white says it isn't if you said it was perfectly fulfilled for them why did she say it wasn't perfectly fulfilled what has she done no she's not repeating it she's doing the what she's making it progressive which is the word that s word she's making it sequential yeah because she's taking she's done this and she's made this the Miller right history and the history of the hundred forty-four thousand it's a line if that was a line and ii began where began here ii begins here and it's going to be fulfilled in this history perfectly or imperfectly sorry perfectly isn't it yeah it's going to be perfect so we go all the way it's going to be perfectly fulfilled but we approach the problem differently we do this milling right history is the history in our history is our history and we say it was imperfectly fulfilled here and then it was perfectly fulfilled here and that is not line upon line so we use spirit property quotes and we don't even use them in a way we're supposed to because if it was line upon line you can't do that what did you do you have to put a break there and if you're going to make a line upon line you can't have an half a job and a full job it has to be perfect here for it to typify a perfect here they both have to be the same so it has to have been perfectly fulfilled in this history for it to be perfectly fulfilled in this history but otherwise it's approaching the whole problem different so it's a philosophical problem and i want us to become familiar with that in greek controversy page 389 paragraph 2 1 second great controversy 3 8 9 paragraph 2 it says the second angels message of revelation 14 was first preached in the summer of 1844 and it then had a more direct application to the churches of the united states where the warning of the judgment had been most widely proclaimed and most generally rejected and where the declension in the churches had been most rapid but the message of the second angel did not reach its complete fulfillment in 1844 the churches then experienced a moral fall in consequence of the refusal of the light of the Advent message but that fall was not complete as they have continued to reject the special truths for this time they have fallen low and Lord not yet however can it be said that Babylon is fallen because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication she has not yet made all nations do this the spirit exceeds me the spirit of world conforming an indifference to the testing truth for our time exists and has been gaining ground in churches of the Protestant faith in other countries of Christendom and these churches are included in the solemn and terrible denunciation of the second angel but the work of apostasy has not yet reached its culmination and how do you read all of that in the context of what we're just spoken yeah what's your point the point of the second angels message not having it's perfect fulfillment in Millerites history and it's extending into horrifying so to do that you have to create that put that line back in don't you I'm wondering what you how you reading that verse are you saying you have to do this or you say you can still break it and get that passage to work okay so hopefully gonna get back to the nature of mang someone over still pick up some thoughts on that in summary we can show that pagan rome and france are the same thing at one level because the horns are on the head daniel 7 we've seen that you've got a three-fold union the twofold union it's the dragon the Beast opposed profit United States the UN in the papacy but both of these are governments there's a singular Church so you've got a church state union at the end of the world revelation 17 clearly shows us that we do the lines that spoke about 538 to 1798 where the papacy is ruling and I asked the application at the end of the world we've got Sunday law close of probation down you twelve one this is the one out that it rules with the Kings then I asked the question or so all of this was to show that the United States fulfills the role of France and pagan Rome simultaneously not even sequential it simultaneously so without going all into the you know rehashing that out that's the point that wanted us to see that it fulfills both roles the history here of 538 to 1798 the Dark Ages is going to be repeated at the end of the world why the threefold Union at the end of the world because it was a three-fold Union in the Dark Ages there's a three-fold Union in the 1260 there has to be a three-fold Union at the end of the world yeah and oh then we spoke about a little bit of how we see judgment and how the Miller right line works and that we approach the problem completely differently to both the Miller rights and Adventism and even the way is written in both the spirit proxy and the Bible so we have a formidable task hether buff let's pray Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness and your watch care over us but as we grapple with our own insecurities our own preconceived ideas our own fears and worries we ask Lord that you would give us grace and strength to work through these problems Lord may we leave no stone unturned in our own thinking so that we might become established in the present truth please help us please be with us and guide us and give us a clarity on the message that you want us to understand and to share with your people Jesus his name we pray I mean