(10-02-17) - Afternoon - The First Angel Review - (4t7UcAvKndQ)

Overview

Video

Details

Publish Date: 10/3/2017
Speaker Name:
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (10-02-17) - Afternoon - The First Angel Review-4t7UcAvKndQ
YouTube ID: 4t7UcAvKndQ

References

Downloads

Download Video File
Download Audio File
Download Handout/Notes

Transcription

so I've got most of your homeworks back and I've read through them and I made a few comments here and there what I want to do is put them all together in history into a single document and send them back to you so that you can all review when everyone else is already done and then what I'd like you to do is all of you who did the assignment to go back and redo the assignment with perhaps information that you've seen from other people and you see it the way some people have approached the problem yeah so most of us did the work so the question is the arrival of the first angels message at the time of the end in 1798 that's what you're we were required to prove so how do we approach the problem where would you begin you can either go back to your notes if you've got them digitally or if you've printed it out where'd you begin so you begin revelation 14 to show what but okay so what we haven't addressed is the issue of the everlasting gospel I wasn't asking you to do that but so I don't even think that you need to introduce the concept of the everlasting gospel so you'd go to Revelation 14 verse 6 yeah how'd you know that's the first angel a fluke prophecy I love they can't find the cry for anything pretty I just saw you want her right now it's uh I just G C 356 Masha I'm Jonathan you can't get the angel connecting to the tower at the end okay ever angels message connecting to the tower the energy C 356 and he says it's the first no now gods connected to another quote now look up alright now I think if we read revelation 14 verse 9 it says in the third angel so this means there must be two previous and it says to follow it follow it and there followed an angel and before this one it says another angel okay with that they get that logic yeah you have verse 9 it definitely says the third angel so you just clock back to angels so that's how you know it's the first angel for a relation 14:6 okay so this is sure Miller said you're going to go to Revelation 14 verse 6 and you know that this is the first angel then where would you go you did your homework nearly everybody so you remember the logic that you employed maybe you wouldn't approach it that way maybe you approach it a different way if you don't what if you don't want to approach it this way you can say I wouldn't do it this where I'd do it my own another way so I'm asking how would we approach it just as a class because then I'm going to go back and see how people actually did it so do we some some people saying that's not the best way of doing it how would you stop brother Larry okay so you're starting Daniel 12:4 and then we know that the unsealing directly has to do with revelation that's how I so Dan you 12:4 says okay so we've got it's sealed till the time of the end and then we would you go oh yeah I don't go through your paper per se just conceptually where would you go then oh so then I wanted to show the book at the time the end was in are sealed in 1798 beginning with the opening of the first second third angels message being proclaimed through the noise that's how I you said something about revelation yes that Daniel is Daniel 12:4 saying at the time the book is sealed up until the time of the end so then Revelation is the opening of the book explaining the three angels messages for the Millerites everybody see the connection sincerity see the connection that means no in English let's see in my mind the Book of Daniel says seal up this book until the time of the end we know that it's referring to Daniel being sealed up well we know that the revelation is what unseals Daniel do we know that okay Luna so how do we know that the book of Revelation unseal the Book of Daniel okay so I'll do it here there's an SOP quote that says revelation unseals unseals Daniel okay so you can probe for either quote for that then what we're going to do anyone who enjoys double Elsie's participated to the you carry awesome so so revelation on seals down you then okay ready got to here we've gone to Daniel still to the time of the end and this spirit across this quote that says the book of Revelation is what unseals Daniel probably don't think in my mind I'm thinking different I started also with Daniel 12:4 and showing that to the time of the end the Book of Daniel sealed up and then I just try to explain what is the time of the end and what happens at the end and for me it says in great controversy that at the time of the end after that there's an increase of knowledge we know from Daniel 12:4 and then there is a judgment hour message being proclaimed that's how I tried I first tried to show what happens at the time of the end what is time of the end okay so that was from but that's my mind you're saying there's an SOP quote that tells you what the time at the end is what happens at it yeah that at the time of the end that there should be a message concerning the judgment be proclaimed for hate and excusing judgment yeah I can law and then I try to show that time of the end of 1798 why are you bringing that issue of the judgment if you're gonna go then now you're gonna get to 1798 my point is to identify what happens at time of the end and I saw at the time of the end after that is an increase of knowledge time of the end then there is a proclaiming of a judgment hour message time of the M there is a proper time prophecy and it first tried to nail down time of the end I plan to prove the time of the end of 1798 which one do you want to do first the judgment is not an Italianate 1798 that's right yeah this is just one point now I'm doing my next point about time of the end I have an increase of knowledge of time of year increasing knowledge about what because it sounds it's unsealed and at that time so it's unsealed and you're saying the answering of information is to do with judgment message okay it has to do with the judgment message okay so there's an increase of knowledge on judgment yeah I think same message here so the next thing you want to do is tell this when he is that's how I did yeah and this is very often quiet I don't it doesn't matter what it is so you're saying when he's the time at the end that's all I did it yes and you're gonna say that 1798 yes so and then I was trying to show that there couldn't be a judgment hour message before 1798 but after 1798 he did that that's after that the judgment our messages after 1798 that's just my logic maybe I'm okay so you're saying then you from those two statements you say you can't have the judgment until after 1798 correct okay so this would mean in my logic the first angels message whatever it is cannot be before 1798 so where do you get the first angel you know after that was my last point okay but you make a conclusion before you gave the point so so okay well I've got 1798 you saying that you can prove it sometime at the end then what and they're not very sure that the arrival of the first entrance messages at the time of the end and you guys very politic wait to show that yeah so this spirit prophecy quote that says the first angels message is at the time video yes I confirmed that with revelation 14:7 hey and them and my mind was clear wait what's revelation 14:7 say the quote says the message of Revelation 14 proclaiming that the of the judgment is come is given in the time of the end so I looked at the phrase judgment is come and this is from Revelation 14 verse 7 why did you put next one here while white lays down here can be also down there yeah but you could be anywhere I'm asking why you chose this way up here not in water logic for putting it here and not that's for me or one point it's all about the time of the end what happens at the time at the end just to identify the time of the end they just thought more like like randomly with just my points not in order why not yeah ste I hope you know why not put it in an order anyone else he's history I let all the way back to 508 wait there you're right at the bottom okay okay so you're gonna start the journey in 500 K so you begin e55 oh wait why are you beginning in five oh wait so I like to at 1798 and everything that that chart had pointing to it and going that was my reasoning in that moment in time what you trying to prove in your in your initial idea so why do you need to prove that 508 is some history that precedes 1798 okay so what is the significance of 1798 now you can't do that you just say you want to think it's all is back history to show the relevancy of 1798 I think that's kind of what you're saying so what is the relevancy because you've got 508 then you did 538 and you basically said that so what is 1798 right well can we taste it to begin with okay so you want to go back to 723 as well so what are all these teaches you about 1798 this Jemaine - okay so you're going to introduce your document by saying all of these connected to 1798 which means significantly 98u significant yes I don't know what that means if you change your reason we'll just go with the one at the time name okay because crisis eyes like you're backing out of what you said go through your reasoning yeah so what is the significance of 1798 from what to what 1798 tell me about the significance of 1798 because you're given three time prophecies that tell you how significant this date is and what is the significance of this state okay so you say 1798 is significant because it's the end of the papacy is that's what you're trying to prove causation the whole Christian dispensation down the year 1798 okay but I'm not asking what the great country says I'm asking what's the reasoning about introducing straight time prophecies if you're going to say they will end in 98 are you saying that it's to do with the end of the papacy that's what's significant about can see you're doing that by masking why what was the purpose of that so I'm just asking what the relevance is the tissues in different words I met Karen pursuing you individuals other than its significant at marking the end of the time of the end but what that means specifically to me right now I can't be more specific okay oh so one other thing you you quote from the second Advent movement so I think you're about the only person who actually quoted from a non inspired source I think everyone else did it gets dangerous when you do that who's got that on their computer or their phone phones you might struggle you through internet you Barry it's TS am eighty three point one yeah actually possible coding though only it's 1843 a pH TS am eighty three point one 1843 Apollo's Hale the second Advent movement page 83 paragraph one so I don't know if anybody's have you got up there do you have a cd-rom or you are an Internet any 3.1 yes so you have to go into Pioneer writings obviously it's not another way try this seis mr. Crowley yeah can you find it you had you have to standard 2008 cd-rom on your computer do you know sure to use it or okay Luke test you've got it okay you got it okay so enough of the sub gory so I I just want to read a bit of this and you tell me what you think Daniel says 1131 in speaking of the conquerors of Rome they shall take away the daily and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate so he's that historically correct Daniel 11:31 speaking of the conquerors of Rome they should take away the daily and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate great in 1131 he says in speaking of conquerors of Rome so speaking about the people who conquer Rome then he's going to quote the passage they should take away the daily and they should place the abomination that maketh desolate that's right they placed him on the ground who is they the people yeah I think we all agreed that I'm asking you is that correct 18:43 event I don't know how you read if you how you I'm assuming that we all have some understanding of Daniel 11 verse 31 talk about the placing of the daily that's all they're quoting they should take away the daily and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate they do two things take away their place of bondage to make their and the person who does that they say speaking of the conquerors of Rome she's that historically correct though his desk okay repeat what did you say I would think otherwise so as a comfortable I'm not the papacy Thanks what do we say trombone yes ma'am he's kicked out the last why do you say not the papacy they don't have an army yeah but why do you formation the paper asleep do you think did you think a Paula's house is talking about the papacy are you talking about or do it so cuz he says those that conquered room yeah I'm just wondering but this first introductory sentence is it actually correct my brother you say no yes it sounds like it's saying that Rome conquers the daily and sets up the papacy that's kind of how I read if I said someone conquers Rome so someone's conquering Rome whether it's the city or the nation the people who conquer Rome are the ones that take away the daily and place the abomination that maketh desolate where do we put the placing of the bomb nation that make you thirst of it when's that okay 538 and which they're placing the abomination who's the bomb nation that maketh desolate papacy who does the placing perhaps well it's France France that's not what we did this morning this morning now he said France and you said yes brats and you said we did it this movie Pike and Rome is in France what level brother Tyler at one level who places the papacy on the throne in 538 it's pagan Rome constantinople not France yeah so the first sentence is actually historically incorrect they've got a wrong view of hit of prophecy so they're wrong there then he says joining speaking of popery is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth which sat upon the Beast says revelation 17 God has put in their hearts the kings to fulfill his will and to agree and give their Kingdom to the Beast until the words of God shall be fulfilled so what what they did what are they not doing sorry who are the kings yeah but who are they that's right he doesn't think the United Nations this is the ten holes of Daniel seven he stay he's already merging two separate prophecies and bringing them together because he's 1843 we could go on let me read this last bit then these hate the whore and make her desolate and naked then she'll eat her flesh and burn her with fire France during the reign of Clovis was the principal actor in placing the abomination is that correct do we agree with that the France is the one that places so all I want to say is that you use that that reference is a kind of proof and most of its at least half of it that I went through is wrong it's not it's not historically probably accurate what do we think about that have you gone the cd-rom ease until percent kosher even the even if it is on there and they don't put caveats on Adventists even today by and large are pretty generous they just put the information out even if it's not correct because it's a historical document so if you just go to the pioneer writings you have to be careful before we're going to quote them as being true okay so your logic was you want to show that the significance of this is the end of the papacy and where else did you show the fulfillment of Daniels purpose Andy has a lot okay so then you mentioned two classes of worshipers at the very end how does that demonstrate the first angels message coming in 1798 and time at the end listening to others can concepts and videos are in conversation that seems to be a resulting okay even though it may be historically correct it's not germane to the subject matter that we were trying to and then push then you then you move on to formalization in 1833 I made a mistake you weren't the only one who did a nun inspired reference who else did that get my sister yeah so our sister went to froome's work freely faith of our fathers and what we trying to show from that why would you go to the prophetic faith of our fathers we shared between the history of the Reformation and Miller ISM and how is that germane to what our subject was it's basically showing the history pre 1798 and those that follow 1719 so it's just identifying that the middle White's we're doing what or saying what well when you look at the next quotation it tells you that from great controversy b55 years we equated from I know I'm trying to get it from great controversy tells you that no period before 1798 could the message of the first angel be placed so the overall emphasis was to show that mannerism is a consequence of the Reformation yet still um in a sense it's speaking to the progression of the message of the first angel okay so I want to ask you so you said this in your document it's been a long established fact with didn't present truth that the first angels message arrived within the year 1798 the facts used to support this doctrine are many but within this piece only a few will be mentioned so you know many proofs but you're only going to give a few can you give myself as a martyr the ones you already gave one proof yeah I'm looking you up why'd you say can you give us a couple of more so he gave us his one spirit prophecy quote yeah remember we had covered that particular one when we had class we had covered the fact of Daniel standing in his lot within the time period of 1798 as a reference of the first angels message being there this is spirit prophecy quote yeah I'm gonna check it okay so this bill prophecy quote that says what Daniel is in his law yeah Daniel stands in his law dependence in his law and that what's that gonna do 1798 and first angels message so you say Tom da at time the end and this is way what was this quote tm1 13.3 how come do you think give that one you do you say the facts used to support this doctor are many but within this pace only a few will be mentioned I understand that before no no there are many the principle of this movement is that upon the testimony of two or three that being established and those that are seasoned in the message are quite acquainted with more than what I know but that is that you can go any way I don't know only that means I was sure you would you mean testability of two or three what does that mean I'm asking I'm asking you to demonstrate improve the first testimony not the second okay and you said there's many proofs to demonstrate the veracity of the first testimony so all are seems for another one you gave us one okay GC 355 another one now you can give us that if I fit the gameís that was give me another one because there's many can I write another paper yeah we could write another one that I'm more vocal anak when in writing then okay so next time when you're more vocal give us some of the Mende I intended but what happened is when I dropped that court in move it got to 400 our 41 and then when I dropped the other one it got to a thousand and eight let me tell you some of your other fellow students that they threw all about out the window they went to five pay tickets I heard like three thousand or something not right about limit okay yeah I make mistakes sister Sarah corrected me on that one she did three quarters of a page I've got the 500 500 wasn't even two pages it was quite sure okay so brother Luke took us this to this place as well didn't you you took us their first year so you greedy sister shamila so she'll go to your logic yeah so I went to a dangerous message and then gave her explanation sort of know what it is and then I went to prophecy does history so what the 1260 and how we get to 1798 so that's how you do that yeah and then I went and the next paragraph was on the prophecy notice how you get to 1798 so we started off here revelation 40 then what then then I went to history began in 538 with the 1260 so you can you do what just just identity that's right not know but you get there so you've spawned the similar logic just showing that vivid 1798 is a way mark uh-huh quite a great controversy for 39.2 wine why just explaining the papacy in the forty and two months and so all of that is still an introduction to build up its not even proving anything was of just showing 1798 as just a random date okay so yeah so you haven't proven anything yet no that's in the next part I can see it so on the first pace this is just the all introduction then yeah I guess and then I went to prophecy of how the first angels message introduced I think one mr 44.1 which says talks she talks about the first angels message and she connects that to the papacy and then then I'd cross transplant three thirty four point five which is nothing the same passage as Sonya yeah that one which clearly links time at the end and the first angels message and the unsealing of the Book of Daniel which is 98 so the only proof texted you had with this one yeah so Luke chose to do this one and you chose to use what GC three five five three five six and this is chose to do the same one so almost everybody's going to go through this one so this would did that Jonathan what did you use I used the same 355 three and three 56.2 I do use this one as well use both yes Johnson uses both he picks up both and my sister what was your logic had you [Laughter] just won it's just you can just run speak your documents okay would you me to read it would you now let me tell you but please don't question me though okay I'll question someone else no way brother tight hang up in dude oh yeah I said yeah sure mr. white said you're going to question some of you I'm gonna question them after you tell us oh okay Celia really take the subway no well I just looked what the time of the end was and what took place around that time and I was in Daniel 11:40 was in Daniel 12:4 and 9 and I looked at the time when France made war with the papacy and I also just went on the internet and to find out what took place on that time and I came up with the general Bertier scenario and got a date which was a 15th of February and so I just put on your document and realized that you know the date next a trick such as revelation 13:3 I mentioned revelation 17 what's test mates ministers 1 1 4 paragraph 3 cuz I'm gonna read that TM 1 1 4.3 or is that typo that typo TM 1 14.3 on the books of Daniel and revelation are better understood believers will have an entirely different religious experience they'll be given such consistent glimpses of the open gates of heaven that heart and mind will be impressed with the character that almost develop an artist realized the blessedness which is to be the reward of the pure in heart okay I see it wasn't a typo so what I noticed with the paper was that you actually didn't end up proving that the first angels message arrived in 1798 which was the time at the end they'd like me information but you never actually proved it so but you notice how I said to how I was gonna prove it and I was going sequentially and logically I didn't and I think you ran out of space because they were things that you're talking about which were Germain - yeah I can't no internet Sandra yeah the seven thunders you mentioned you mentioned about birthday and all of those things which are not directly connected to what we did what we were doing sister olivine the wrong thing goes through again the GC quote and like you she goes through running to and fro as well she tackles this issue about running to and fro so one is through your logic sis Roggeveen you do three five five paragraph one two three yeah why just one entry you don't even go to 656 so you pay at least two so she talks I won't do work on the first engine which is agreed with us so evening okay and then bar graph to see that the prophesies itself big tips when this message riddim are abundant she points us to the prophecies of Daniel and then I asked what prophecies of Daniel and the work of what prophecies of Daniel which one but I never twelve for Daniel 11:40 I think that was my first highlighting the time of the end King of the South push against a particular I think so you never had any proof text or actually show the first angels message comes at the time of the end Ricci 1798 like it takes the passage but verses 1 and 3 from this page here they don't actually mention you don't have a 1798 in them you know so that's why I use Daniel 11:40 and highlighted the historical event okay so you get that so you wait to go to history as a personal inspiration did we do that you use history instead of inspiration to proof some prophecy must agree I need get it correct you know both our thing what is with mmm what is if there is no available history and you can approve your prophecy prophecy first and then history so I would have I would have gone for a quote that actually has that on this is the cap isn't here sister Sarah she again starts her discussion here same way sister mother did you and you take us to you take us to another passage that I think anybody else did with this one seventeen mr9 point to the message of Revelation 14 proclaiming that the hour of God's judgment is come is given in the time of the end and the angel of revelation 10 is representing to having one foot on the sea and on the one foot on the land showing the message will be carried to distant lands what is the time at the end and when is it so again I don't think you what do you do you've tied up revelation 14 with the time at the end 17m I will do that for you yeah it ties up Revelation 14 first angel with the time at the end and then how you're going to make the connection that it's 1798 you're going to do what sister olivine did which is go to history even though you don't label history cuz you go to Daniel 11 verse 40 because Daniel 11 verse 40 in love yourself won't give you 1798 you have to then go to a further source which I think you gave some details but but you didn't in your document 300 forgot is this oh yes oh then yes so again I don't think anybody went with this one as well so you're going to go to GC for 39 so you had to - yeah then I'll read that and then you go to GC 4 3 9 paragraph 2 which one yes I think you did throw yeah powers given unto him to continue forty two months and says the Prophet I saw one of his heads was wounded to death this period the stated in preceding chapters began with the supremacy of the papacy and fighter 38 in terminated in 1798 at the time the Pope was Katla was at that time the Pope was made captive by the French army the papal power received its deadly wound okay so how do you get from revelation 14 to the time of the end to 1798 how did you make that jump one two three you have to put something in here don't you fourteen to seventeen that's correct and then you've got the GC which 1798 and you have to put one piece of logic in here which was a Daniel 11 quote and the thing then now what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to tell us what Daniel 11 verse 40 means so you have to then explain with the king of North King in the southeast that is you're giving your understanding of what that verse means so I guess that's part of them is it's a fair enough argument but then I said well I don't agree with that definition I don't think verse 40 teaches that as an example yeah so the proof is because you're giving so just in between here that this arrow is pointing in between here it's 11:40 and so you're giving us your interpretation of 11:40 because you're saying this is the fight between France and the papacy and then you've got a juicy quote that says France and the papacy is 1798 so you've had to put a piece of logic in here which isn't a witch which isn't in and of itself of proof texts you have to interpret Bible verse to make that work did everybody understand that yeah that's not one brother Larry's so again brother Larry's gonna go to Daniel 12:4 and they need you go to Revelation 14 and I don't if we discuss this in class but he makes a really good point that the Book of Daniel is sealed and had you unsealed the Book of Daniel you have to go to the revelation and yes so CTR three three four paragraph IVs proves that that the book of Revelation unseals the Book of Daniel so CTR three three four paragraph five but what I wanted to comment on that when you did that brother Larry the CTR 3 3 4 3 3 4 quo is actually taken from this section here TM 1 1 5 so you could have just gone back to the original source which is what we've already using this tier 1 1 5 begins back in page 14 so I would have thought it would have been a better quote to use the testimonies to ministers when he said the CTR so you've gone from 12 4 and you said this is going to be unsealed by revelation and you've got a priest a Bible text so it's a bit of prophecy quote to prove that and then ok then you went to GC 405 so in GC 405 you say it's the Millerites that gave the 1st and 2nd angels messages at the right time so you quote that and then you go to GC 3 5 6 paragraph 2 one of the standard ones which talks about in 1798 the Book of Daniel was unsealed so you talk about a sealing here till the time of the end it gets unsealed in the book of Revelation the Miller writes are giving this message revelation 14 so you make that you try that point up and then you say it's okay so we're sister wife tells us that the message in that it's GC 405 paragraph 2 like man the Miller and his associates fulfilled prophesy and gave a message which in which inspiration had foretold should be given to the world the 1st and 2nd angels messages were given at the right time and accomplished the work which God designed to accomplish by then so it talks about the message that they gave is the person 2nd angels messages so that's that one sister shamila mr. Miller gave the gc3 five five three five six quotes don't you gave second selected messages why did you give second selected messages second selected messages one at five she picked up further elaborate on Daniel chapter 12 verse four which speaks at the time of the end and how the Book of Daniel has been open since the time of the end just some words from there the Book of Daniel is now unsealed and the revelation made to Christ to John is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth by the increase of knowledge of people is to be prepared to stay in the latter days so I the reason I went to that quote was to point out the time of the end that that was the keywords I was using I was extracting the worst time of the end from and connecting it with Revelation 14 so first angel Revelation 14 six and seven and then time of the end which is 17 1998 so this is just to bring it all together to quote the boat run Larry gate that CTR quote this is even a stronger quote than the one he did he use I read this I read the first paragraph against the word which is a record for a quote to SM 105.1 the book that was sealed was not the book of Revelation but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel which related to the last days the scripture says but that all Daniel shut up the words and seal the book him to the time of the end many shall run to and fro knowledge shall be increased when the book was opened the proclamation was made time shall be no longer the Book of Daniel is now unsealed and the revelation made by Christ to John is to come to the inhabitants of the earth by the increase of knowledge people is to be prepared to stand in the latter days then she quotes revelation 14:6 and 7 so revelation 14:6 and 7 when you live here in paragraph before he says the Book of Daniel is now unsealed and the revelation made by Christ to John so this is the book of Revelation is to come to all the inhabitants of the earth and then she's got a quote revelation 14 6 and 7 in the revelation all the books of the Bible meet and here's the complement of the Book of Daniel one's a prophecy the other is a revelation the book that was sealed is not the revelation but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days the angel commanded but that would then you sharp the book sorry shut up the words and seal the book even till the time at the end so you can get most of everything you need just from this paragraph except the 1798 day which he then uses three five five two three five five three five six to prove okay so why did you go to seven BC 97 1 why have you do widely discussed because that's a commentary on revelation 14:6 and 7 and also down at 12 for which is speaking at the time of the end this is commentaries further commentary on the verse the scriptures that were previously revelation 14 or revelation 10 yeah it says it there revelation 14 no that's good that's just go somewhere it day oh is it but it isn't revelation 10 so when it says see that's not her putting it there when it's a c7 BC lights and one it tells you I'm not showing you a question we say see they're like peeping closed area to afford to send em so foreign bracket with innocence sounds we no longer see revelation 10 6 so I've already got what she's printed hit what what on her printed document this is taken from 7 BC nice ever one and it says in brackets Revelation 14 6 to 12 and Daniel 12:4 to 13 so how is that how it's given in your computers ya know 7 BC 7 BC 97 1 paragraph 3 the 207 one is really good as a good quote there's nothing no problem with that one yes oh no so that Daniel 12:4 and he said see revelation 10 6 that's all good there's no problem in that one it's this one why did I'm asking why she puts this here because this is referring to the seven thunders which is a history of creator's messages and it starts with 1798 where did it say that in the passage head you know paragraph four under these seven thunders up to the voices - join us - Daniel into in regard to the little book seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered so the history of 1798 to 1844 that's the history of three angels Jenny's not making the thing is because do you know how the Bible commentaries the coding for them work so if you're looking if you look on the CD Rob I don't know what it looks like on the internet and I don't know exactly I'd have to check what what scripture references this is but it also revelation 10 and it will be verses 1 to something it says what is the whole chapter is an audio - 1 to 11 then in brackets or parenthesis it says revelation 14 Daniel 12 because these two Bible passages are related to Daniel or so revelation 10 but this is a commentary on revelation 10 not on revelation 14 or Daniel 12 even though they're related to the subject from someone else and parentheses are are always from the person so you saying brackets in that way you mean yeah I'm saying all of this is not Ellen Wyatt what someone's done is they've gone to other White's writings and they've made an attempt to see what Bible passages is she referring to and they create the Bible commentaries right yeah this is this is a Bible commentary and so they say in this passage is related to date of Revelation 10 and it is it's a correct way of doing it but the ones that are in parentheses say they're saying it's also connected to Revelation 14 and Daniel 12 so all I'm saying is 7 BC 97 1 even though it's connected to Revelation 14 is dealing with Revelation 10 it's not revelation 14 okay so let's read this last bit together second Thessalonians chapter 2 verse 3 key words man of sin so everybody know second Thessalonians 2:3 yes you wanna read it to us sister anybody one two three let no man deceive you by any means he shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition so I'm gonna read what Miller said this text I thought to be very significant improving the first angels message or sin to have taken effect in 1798 when the man of sin which represents the papacy that was revealed in 538 and had been in supremacy for 1260 years came to its end in 1798 so is everybody catch that 2nd Thessalonians chol it's called the man of sin when he's the man of sin revealed do we grease 5:38 or not yeah so she makes that point but because it's called the man of sin she wants to make the connection that the word sin is connected to revelation 14 verse 6 1798 because it because the papers he rules for 1260 so you've got 538 the man of sin 1260 and then you've got I presume you're saying sin righteousness and judgment so she's picking up the word sin here and connecting it to the words seen here from John yeah so that's why I'm asking is this is this the correct methodology they said the man of sin here and then you're going to go to John 16:8 where it says sin righteousness and judgment and make a connection this is the test I'll read the next paragraph there for the first angels message sin taken from the phrase man of sin or papacy was on the scene in 1798 when it had lost its authority as a state power however not as a church power v Johnson I assume you know at this point is similar to what we were saying this morning because the men have sinned and since 1798 but as I understand sin righteousness and judgment begins in 1798 so for me that two different periods one of the reasons say a bit louder bessimilliya two three that's in the middle of the second that's because all born in church but there be a falling away first in the Madison tradition that was 19 for 12 years so you mentioned second Thessalonians but I'm not sure if this is the correct way of applying proof sex in just picking up a word that says sin and then connecting it to that sin so then what other people think about it I don't think that's the correct methodology but the marios paper again he's gonna do what a number of you have done begins in Revelation 14 and he then quotes GC three five five and then again he quotes from GC for 39 takes you to 1798 so most people have used this passage here did anybody have I missed anybody's thoughts I can't hear you sorry I still am I hear it's not very good yeah just be louder I don't know if this makes any difference or not but though they're both Jeep 266 in the strong Senate do the front driver brakes or the better news there's for the word but simple G 266 in second Thessalonians 2 verse 3 and John 16 verse 8 so did that have any because it's the same Greek word please from Tyler oh no it's a cake it's the same Greek word g2 six six I think they said the same Greek word does that make that make a difference man is sin and sin righteousness of judgment everything's got to be contextual you have to figure out my pancakes sometimes I think sometimes that's okay but not always you know you get into difficulties with locusts you know what John the Baptist a and what it says in Revelation okay so I don't think there's that many spirit proxy quotes that allow us to understand that time of the nd 1798 with arrival of the first angels message with listen I think most of them and there's someone knows some other ones so what I'd like us to do is I'll send you all the notes back again put them all together so you can see everybody else's paper and if you could have another go at it some people just listed the quotes out without any commentary some people didn't put things in the logical sequence so have a rethink about it I'd like you to think about the sequence that you're placing these your logic in some commentary and why are you quoting these passages and have a look at the other passages people are using and maybe let's have another go at doing this sorry you can use a few more if you need more that's fine okay 5,000 okay within 5,000 words give me here we can really do it yeah any questions I have a look like so active that we'll talk about that when we come back together again since it is anymore because maybe you look maybe you'll find some more I don't it did anybody did you actually search for more quotes yeah cuz it's all it's all too easy just used to GC three five five quote and think you're done in dusted in fact if you wanted to be pedantic about it all you need is this this one-liner you just need this one paragraph one one five paragraph three and it gives you all the information but what it is to be a bit more comprehensive a bit more thoughtful about the work that we're doing yeah when you're writing a paper just about style of writing it should be a bit more formal normally third person not first person not your buddy when you're right into the main letter email try formalize your language a bit more what's your spreading mistakes and it's easily done I've been the worst speller out of all of you but it's pretty good job it's pretty reasonably happy with that so I've got a few minutes left I want to ask another question someone reads Revelation 14 verse 6 I'm their everlasting gospel is preached to them that dwell on the earth it's every nation and kindred and tongue and people okay who's the angel who is the angel you can't sit a depends hey what left okay many people diversity sorry I'm right underneath this thing I can't a messenger messenger don't you say the Christ I've heard it say it or Satan before I'm asking what you think look what you heard I feel like that or a seasoned waste he's already with many and this is well it must be won in the special sequence because white time you get 2 yen it's 1/3 so this must be the first in the sequence it's not the first angel that's interacted in with John in this book so the price perspective 7b 1971 only pertaining to the church as Christ be some of these events at one point it's talking about revolution again the same Porter said no other person has done in France okay so we've got an angel it says the messengers someone said that probably Jonathan yeah it's correct and then she could be a messenger but lady has to because that's what that's what the definition made you means you're gonna go any further than that people so you say it's God's people anyone else now you wanna get with know what I thought suffers but we think so he said cuz I got people yeah he's got quite as well he's so anyone else besides and he wanted to make it more than one meaning the Angels right it has more than one meaning okay you want to give us another one or do baby big ones yeah I would say I'm gonna take this one out because I think angel like a messenger the ReadySet adds anything to it Roman Church right the remnant Church remnant Church the rendering of walk the remnant know what's left of you know the people that kept the faith from the beginning oh hey sorry the remnant of the people who are keeping the faith from the beginning of the pure Church okay so you told me the remnant of the church at the beginning anyways he doesn't like the status well because people have come into the church and you know terrorists have come into the church and they're I don't know you want to call a Christian by name or Protestant by name but they don't do the first works so the remnant are those who you know who keep that the purity of a message as it came in the beginning I say saying the remnant are either pure people yeah so you say so I'm gonna I'm gonna change on they say you're telling me this means wait only that's what you just said nothing is that what you should say well you agree with that now that be the church that would you say that it depends but yeah okay yeah maybe yeah yeah I would say good and His Christ and his people so this angel is Christ based on verbal revelation 10 and how it I still know about me faulty yeah I'm gonna say I still believe that revelation 10 and 14 are linked together because when you go to Revelation 18 and I'm not arguing that they're not I'm just asking back 14 though who is he saying you'll hear ya because revelation 18 that is the mighty angel Christ I'm not asking you to prove why hey I'm just asking you to tell me who so no I'm not asking for proof and without feeling who is the angel and my answer is Christ and His people it's Christ yeah in the formulas people so these people so these people then yes yes look right not price yet okay anyone else and the contrary okay okay so who's the angel of faulty names is it that is it that angel of Revelation one because that's what it seems like you say so who's the agent of Revelation one interpretation one now you just cake you it I'm asking me who is one you can't say it's 14 because I could say who's 14 you're gonna say it's 1 1 yeah you don't know his name or anything else oh okay so you're saying it's Gabriel so this must be Gabriel so this is Gabriel in 14 revolution yeah so you say this age of relics 14 verse 6 is Gabriel who's the angel in Revelation 14 verse 8 another angel if this one's Gabriel who's the next one who's the one before the 46 so in 14:6 is Gabriel and the now angels between 1 and 14 so that's Gabriel who's the one that's before Gabriel okay is Gabriel here it's another 100k was the reference you had is that the same one that you had is that the same one you had brother that okay so it says that the angel is God's people and who we gave me the message to we're giving the message to the world okay so it's the worldwide message she laughs this you hands out what is that so it's a worldwide message in revelation 14 verse 6 I've really agree with that yeah when did this angel come okay 1798 okay let's skip over here 42 years yeah 42 years what year are we in we're in 1840 and now we're where are we just a shamila we've jumped 42 years we've got worldwide message in 1798 now in 1840 we're at what chapter are we in now so we're in Revelation 10 okay who's this angel now who is it you saying this is Jesus so this one was God's people and this one is Jesus who is this angel my sister thought that you had us you had written on the board for memorization says it's no less a person than Jesus Christ so you're telling me that Jesus here you going with Jesus for now meow let's do that for now sister taste oh what's that sister chest so we've got God's people brother Larry sister shamila yeah I like to change it in his peaceful prices for most people say the people yes anyone else from area so you're sticking with people but Valeri not the people well Jonathan to say it's God's people because they gave a message but how do we communicate relies the quote clearly says it's Jesus I'm referring to Church revelation 10 verse 1 if you're guessing refers to anything else yeah then verse 1 it is Jesus now if we weren't recorded I'd say something but I'm not gonna get into trouble okay so we're in 31 ad Jesus has gone where he's ascended and he's in the holy place someone pull up the verse or you probably know it offhand oh I find it again Hebrew 7:25 this relates to Matthew 13 verse 24 to 30 same issue wherefore he is able to he he's able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them yeah so that's Jesus what's he doing always interceding with these people where are you supposed to be interceding where does he have to do the interceding sorry the most he's not in the most holy place in the holy place when Hebrews 7 he's written he's not in the most holy place it's in the holy place so he has to be in the holy place for him to do that so if Christ is going to come down from heaven and come back down to earth when he came back down to earth could he intercede for us at that moment no he didn't say holy place I said in AD 31 winners Christ the center and really agreed it was the holy place for evolution 5 goes into holy place and then Hebrews 7:25 says he ever liveth he's always living to intercede for us yeah by the way does he intercede for us during the day of atonement never think about that because I've run out of time Hebrews 7:25 he's coming down to earth if he comes down to earth could he intercede here on earth when he talks the gentleman how that babbles okay what do you mean when he comes down which party tumbler revelation 10 verse 1 how much you haven't in the holy place o revelation timbres would you need to saving and then it's coming down he came down he cannot intercede because he's not in the sanctuary okay I can't hear you okay so who the angel day so not there's no one literally doing anything in 1840 but God's people are literally doing something so go ahead to my question who is the angel both they're both correct so God comes down in the form of his people there are there were these people before they Christ and God's people they're one the same weight people about somewhere that came down no no these people have always been down here yeah literally yeah so is it Christ or is it his people the mess the message comes down especially it's unicode is the message now so the message comes down yes when you come down from from God so it wasn't here before no so there was no message before it only comes down now yeah so before the law 42 years there's been no message it hasn't become a testing message it's been it's been formalized so will their message you're not I don't know I guess you could say it was a message for William Miller since he was alone formalizing the message he was about getting the information together I might have been attesting message for him who feels gonna you know excited I even was texting Incubus yeah her it I'm thinking uh didn't like what you're saying run back for us is why talking about angels we visited William Miller and then you have Christ's birth angels come in and birth and all that sort of angels the little angels who deliver the message to God's people and be ticket to the world so that's how Christ sends the message comes from Christ to Gabriel to his people so the angel here is a little angel now you can have a little angel he said yes I'm sit down let me get back in a way know what I mean what I think we say the range of the you saying something you can see that you call it you quality the birth of Christ I something else I am William Ella yes because the Rangers had the busy on order so I just say who is he saying yo you said I said little angel you said yes I like that in everything you say no it sounded worse it looks when I write it down yes it looks nautical little angels you saying that brother Larry you still think you Jesus he came down from heaven yeah but you think he came down from heaven yes or no will do okay so where did Jesus go back to heaven no I'm not this I'm not trying to really ate anybody wants to think about this I'm not trying cracked it I know everybody um yeah anyway I'm not trying Barris anyone if he came down from heaven you got no when he came when he went back to heaven okay ten minutes not over this is difficult because we gotta wait till Wednesday now before finishing this class because I'm not like that well I'm gonna try it I'm not supposed to mix and match so if you can try and remember the thoughts I'll try to remember where we are what was your point mr. just okay these are next homework oh this is the prelude for our next piece of homework so I was hoping we would hammer this out and then I was getting you your homework yes I said we were left because it's so interesting and yes yes yeah dad you wanna make sure goes on the camera it might not come across that way because maybe people are watching they don't get it that the ambience here it's not mocking anyone it's just the logical conclusions you'd be get to you express it just nicely then if he came down if that was Jesus says he came down and he could speak brother Larry just one other point what was here when he came down what did he do earth literally yeah bomb off you did he literally do that then he what one put on this one foot on the sea literally those things yeah so you soon so what what what part of the earth would that be United States and then what part of the sea because then you can you're gonna probably start obviously you can start seeing the problem with it is even if he was on the eastern seaboard you know and if he's just talking about the beach if he's the sea proper Jesus then becomes like a giant and you start getting problems if you start mixing literal and symbolic all together because otherwise couldn't even tell you what that means because she tells you that earth and the sea means what so it's not even the Atlantic it is going to go right around the earth if you if you start making this Jesus of literal Jesus that's coming literally down her commentaries then begins to break down and you get into a problem that you have to thought you're forced now to mix literal and symbolic so by the way the standing on the earth and the sea what does it represent is that all he represents okay okay so you're gonna send now the olders now now you're saying that the sea is Europe so now you're stretching from the United States to Europe which is even bigger a problem and brother Luke said what it doesn't even represent any of that it represents something different it represents his power and authority doesn't even represent a worldwide message it has at least two separate symbols just in that context so just in closing what I want us to try and begin to see that even though this is where you are getting two problems or get into trouble not I'm problems the if it's just a straightforward reading of the spirit of prophecy begins to be problematic so even though she says it I'm going to say even though she says it's no less a personage it isn't Jesus that's coming down you get scriptures fighting against one another if that happens he's not ever living to interceding for us when does he go back up you have that problem then you have the problem where he's standing is it America Europe is the Atlantic is that worldwide does he show his supreme authority because if you do that if you follow on what brother Luke says it says it waxed what greater or stronger till war they say until something including scenes yeah to the concluding scenes and by any measure 1840 was not the quote the concluding scenes of the great controversy we haven't even got to the concluding scenes yet we still not there so that means Jesus must have stayed on earth all of this time since 1840 which means he cannot have been interceding for us it could not have transferred from the holy place to the most holy if you make this literal Jesus so I hope you've got that piece of logic because he's not just a worldwide message it takes you to the conclusion of the great controversy and that means he remains here on earth from 1840 all the way to the very end and we know that he doesn't do that let's pray Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness your watch care in your mercy over your people we ask and pray that you'd be with us and bless us Lord as we come before you we want to thank you that we can have joy and happiness in opening your word you can bring us even moments of laughter we hope Lord that we continue to honor you even in the lighter moments of our studies that we would honor you and to glorify you through our words our thoughts and our actions help us Lord to have a correct understanding of your word so that we might come to correct application of these things be with us to this end we pray and ask in the name of Jesus I mean