(1-31-16) - Evening - Iron & Clay - (a8yfvC4qs0w)

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Publish Date: 8/26/2016
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (1-31-16) - Evening - Iron & Clay-a8yfvC4qs0w
YouTube ID: a8yfvC4qs0w

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you for you the precious name Jesus Christ we obviously a lot of you forgive us a whole lot of sins video us father any foolish for word or action besides can pray dear Lord that you will then join we'll find our hearts to the house of Christ I oxia whether you prepare our minds to receive a word and I pray father that we can be blessed in jesus holy name we're leaning into considering Daniel chapter 2 and one of the issues that we're going to have to do with in Daniel chapter 2 is the iron and the clay which is correctly understood to be the image of the beast the combination of church and state maybe not the image of the beast will let you let the contact aside that but it's about church and state so I'm going to start even though this is old information by showing that the subject of the image of the beast is a theme that lies behind every prophecy in God's Word and make some points along the way as we head towards the iron and clay one of the worships here before parminder heads to Brazil he's going to do deal with the clay in the miry clay in Daniel 2 so we put that in place and we've already looked at the concept that when Rome is mentioned in the scriptures you see both pagan and papal rome together and the point I was making in that presentation is at Rome its marked repeatedly the Rome whether you're relating it to it as the Pioneers did is the fourth Kingdom or in a more detailed look as we have it today that it represents both pagan and papal rome that it comes to a conclusion it's 1798 that will be an issue there will be one idea that says that roam both papal and pagan and at the ankles and another that says they end in the feet okay so this is the reason we're putting these ideas in place so we we can come to a sanctified decision what that is but that's why we're spending some time on these things because this is part of where there's two ideas there are other involved so I'll start and we'll run through these scriptures this would be probably review for most of us Isaiah 14 verses 12 through 14 how art thou fallen from heaven o Lucifer son of the morning howarth I'll cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nation's for thou has said in thine heart I will ascend into heaven I will exalt my throne above the stars I will sit also on the Mount of the congregation in the sides of the north I will ascend above the heights of the clouds I will be like the Most High so right when the rebellion begins in heaven with Lucifer in verse 13 he's making a claim that he is going to be seated in two places he's going to be seated upon God's throne which is a symbol of his political authority and he's going to be set it up on the setting he wants to set up on the Mount of the congregation and I didn't take the trouble to do a Bible line upon line on this but the Mount of the congregation you can show is the sides of the north it's God's church he wants to set both upon God's political authority political throne and the his religious authority his religious throne so right from the very beginning of the story of the great controversy as it begins in heaven you see the reference to church and state Michael you want to catch revelation 13 2 and then brother parminder revelation 2 13 and the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard and his feet whereas the beautiful bear and his mouth is an off of the line in the dragon gave him his power and see so Satan wants to be seated on God's throne he wants to be succeeded in the sides of the north on God's religious throne as well as his political throne and the subject of where a power is seated in the scriptures is a big subject it is where a king or a ruler rules from that's what the symbol of a seat is and in Revelation 13 2 is telling us that pagan Rome gave three things to papal rome its power through its military and economic support its thority through Justinian's decree in 533 but when Constantine moved out of the city of Rome he left a power vacuum in the city of Rome which the papacy took upon himself he gave him the throne of the city of Rome to be seated he gave him his power his seat in the year 3 30 and his great Authority so the seat where power rules from is a subject of prop of prophecy another was a bit of weight easy with taking Kiki and I'll always toss my name that is not evening those days where Antipas my faithful water will explain among you one peugeot miss is the time period of that we talked about the other night being symbolized by Constantine it's the falling away church and he marks where Satan's seat is Satan seat in the time of Pergamos is in the city of Rome but you can trace Satan seat back through history Satan seat before this is in the city of Pergamos and the historians tell us that when Babylon failed the Chaldeans from Babylon the religious class originally just elite they fled to Pergamos set up their religion there so you can trace Satan seat down through history and I'm just making a point here without getting it into a study about that that where a power is seated is a subject of Bible prophecy one more along that line daniel 8 11 yeah you magnify himself even through the friends of the most and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away and the plays with his sanctuary was cast down and that sanctuary is the pantheon temple that was in the city of Rome and this is just a parallel to Revelation 13 2 that's the dragon gave him his seat roam the city was cast down philosophically by Constantine when he decided to move to Constantinople and it was in the city of Rome where the Pantheon temple was and the historians tell us that when the Romans captured pergamos they went into the temple there which was where Satan's seat was and gathered the relics and the priests of that religion and moved them to the city of Rome and gave them their own niche in the pantheon temple which was their custom and so the seat is a subject of Bible prophecy but that's kind of secondary to the point that Satan wanted to set upon God's throne his political seat and upon the sides of the north the Mount of the congregation his religious seat because from the very beginning it's a story about church and state okay Genesis 11 verses three through eight and they said one to another going to let us make drinks and burn them for they had a Greek for stone and slide hot date or motor and they said go to let us build us a city and the tower whose top may reach unto heaven and let us making metals make us let us make us a name lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth and the Lord came down to see the sea and the tower which the children of men builded and the Lord said Behold the people is one and they have war one language and they say begin to do and now nothing will be restrained from them which they have imagined to do go to let us go down and they confirm their language that they may not understand one another's speech sort of odd scattered them abroad from friends upon the face of all the earth and they let off to build the city because if you have steady this these three go tues the go-to and chap in verse 3 the go-to in verse 4 and the go-to and verse 7 are the three steps of the three angels messages the action and you can dig this out of the spirit of prophecy of them building this tower but and using bricks and slime represents a broken covenant they were supposed to build altars during that time period and they were supposed to do it with stones that no tool had ever touched and here they're using bricks and no mortar was to be involved so this is representing here the those that reject the Covenant offering that comes at nine eleven the next go to is the Lord wants to come down and see because the second test is a visual test and what he wants to see is the city and a tower and just in the book of Revelation alone there's many many lines where you can show that a city represents a king a kingdom okay so city political and there's a nice quote in the desire of Ages that I didn't dig out where sister White says the tower represents the temple but city and tower here church and state and then the third go to is where judgment takes place much to say about that but I want you to see that when the rebellion begins in heaven Itzik Satan is coveting to set up on two of God's throne is political his religious authority and then when he introduces this rebellion after the flood and the story Nimrod the symbol of Nimrods rebellion is that he's building a political empire with the cities and a religious empire represented by that temple and sister white tells us plainly in the historians tell us plainly that at the top of that tower was a church it was it was a religious worship center okay that's fine what do you mean mingling i mean i'm not sure that i get an appointment with in the same town where you could find a jerky but why are you saying mingling mingling is a word that has to do with the mystery of iniquity and you can use it for what you're saying but I'm trying to find out are you trying to insert the mystery of iniquity into that and if so I'm I understand this envelope I'm not work sure where your own design Finch is 908 596 the tower was a symbol of the temple okay okay your tower in the city yep yep that's that's what I'm getting at mingling different different thing important theme but in a correct word probably to say the combination of church and state isn't mingling but usually you're using the mingling as the mystery of iniquity that precedes this coming together of church and state so Daniel 8 9 through 12 black succeeding grace towards the south and or citizenship Luzzi money and it was great mr. president asking some of the homes and at the stars to the ground and stamped the condom yeah you magnify yourself even to the principal host and buying the daily sacrifice was taken away and the place of the century was cast down and a host was given him against the baby sacrifice by reason of transgressions and you cast down the truth to the ground and his practice and prosper okay now i'm tempted but i won't do it I want to get through the notes when brother parminder was up then eatonville not so long ago I had a brother email me right while he was speaking saying what was it that we understood about Daniel 8 9 and and so did I I'm not even sure what his question you know that's a big question if it's not specific as i said i don't know i don't i didn't know what he's getting at so i gave him kind of a vague answer and and i asked him what his parminder teaching you teaching you right now that is inspiring you to send this question to me through the internet and he summarized verse 9 very succinctly about what parminder was teaching about verse 9 and I'm wondering if brother parminder has the ability to summarize it is briefly and succinctly as my brother did on that email wha and with the point that he was getting at is why we understand verse 9 to be the mask the masculine verse 10 feminine verse 11 masculine and verse 12 feminine because we see this little horn in all four of those verses and it oscillates masculine feminine feminine masculine feminine and the masculine little horn is pagan Rome and the feminine little horn is papal rome and the reason that I'm going here is to let us see that when we see a man in the man and a woman in the scriptures it also is a symbol of church and state because pagan Rome is a symbol of the statecraft and papal rome is a symbol of church craft so it's another symbol for this subject that we're dealing with that ultimately we will identify as iron and clay when we get into Daniel in to Daniel 2 i'm wanting you to see that this subject perf a pervades the scriptures and i'll give brother parminder a pass on giving us that overview of verse 9 just because we have a lot of verses to cover but the point is verses 9 through 12 is the little horn of Rome and when it's understood in its masculine tense in verse 9 and verse 11 it is pagan Rome it is the man Rome but in its feminine sense in verse 10 and 12 it's the female Rome and what is a woman in the scriptures church okay so sometimes we don't realize if a woman's a church that a man is state okay that's how pervasive this subject about the image of the beast is okay so will will pass by that okay go to Genesis Genesis 2 verses 21 through 25 and and the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept and he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh and said thereof and the rib which the Lord God had taken from man may be a woman and brought her unto the man and adam said this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man therefore shall man Cleve leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh and they were both naked the man and his wife and we're not ashamed so yep that's it at this is a story about adam and eve of course and I'm saying right from the start you can relate to them symbolically as church and state and also this is an argument that you want to perhaps consider what is where does this woman this church come from a rib okay so when we see a bear with three ribs in its mouth what does the bear have in its mouth three churches okay so that's that's outside the scope of this but this is the first mention of it in the scriptures then pick up for a sister Allison chapter three verse 16 of Genesis until the woman who said i will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule what is that teaching us the correct relationship that when a church estate are in a correct relationship the the man is because of sin the man has been put as the the priest of the home okay but the image of the beast the satanic manifestation or corruption of this relationship at the end of the world the distinction of it is what the woman is ruling over the man okay so this is where the correct relationship is set forth a brother Henry Daniel two verses 42 43 and a fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron for as much as iron breaketh and pieces and subdues Olson all things when it's iron that breaketh all these shall it break in pieces and bruise and whereas thou sawest the feet and toes part of potters clay and are part of iron the kingdom shall be divided but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron for as much as Dow saws the iron mixed with miry clay and as the toes of the feet were part of iron and part of play so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly broken and whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay thou shalt mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another even as iron is not mixed with clay okay that's where we're heading in this consideration of Daniel too and then the next verses will look briefly at iron and clay as symbols in the scriptures but and I don't I've never did I remember I don't know that I've ever heard brother pomanders presentation on the the clay and the miry clay but most people in Adventism that I here take a shot at interpreting Daniel too they make a distinction between the clay saying this is some kind of pure religious entity and miry clay ending up being a corrupt religious entity this is this is the majority take on this and not everyone applies it the same way but what mainly they come down to that but what we just read if if you pay attention and i don't i don't know that this is any of his logic i'm not trying to steal his thunder or undermine his thought but Daniel here at the end at least twice in there he's talent Nebuchadnezzar what you saw in that image was miry clay okay she's saying whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay the fact that he may mention clay in the narrative does not necessarily make a distinction between the two but it specifically says potters clay yep yep yep that's maybe he can shed some light on that but what was it that Daniel is saying that Nebuchadnezzar soft but that we're not dealing with that now right now what we're dealing with is just putting in focus that we're going to deal with that the iron and the clay is another representation of church and state no I was just going to say it's an elaborate not a distinction there you go it could be we'll leave it enzymes yep we won't leave it we won't draw no lines in the sand yet will let brother permanent draw those lines in the sand if he needs to the other clay proving it wasn't my record is his diction between the other potters clay yeah well there's pit trust me there was people dealing with the clay before brother Dario was born this is an old old subject okay so second Corinthians 4 7 2nd Corinthians 4 7 but we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God in all of us what are the earthen vessels us and in what's an earthen vessel is made out of what ok ok so the scriptures are identifying that the clay represents people and what what treasure do they have in them in this passage Christ in them the hope of glory the infilling of the Holy Spirit so this is religious people this is God's people okay okay sister Sarah Isaiah 64 8 but not honored the right our fathers we are the clay in the world I will torture and me all are the work of thy hand so that's two witnesses clays God's people okay revelation 227 sister Solange apocalipsis capitalist dose for siglos bent they CNT and he that hours come and keepeth my works and then talking we like it forward over the nation okay but I didn't hear I was ah there you go did I say the wrong verse that was probably me verse 27 he's going to rule them with a rod of iron so a symbol of rulership of political rulership is iron the rod of iron brother Marketo chapter 12 verse five yeah the bat the the wicked are also vessels 12-5 and she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and a child was caught up unto God and to his throne what's he gonna rule their brother Marco all nations nation's political rod iron rod pardon me well worldwide the universe but brother Gabriel 1915 out of his mouth here with a sharp sword that with it he should smite the nation's and he shall rule with rule them with a rod of iron and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath oh my god okay so you cannot you can also go through I'm sure you're all familiar with this but in the Book of Daniel sometimes I can remember this verse or not where it says anyway it talks about these kingdoms continuing but the papacy is given to the flames okay and they will some people expositors will say that how is it that Babylon meta Persia and Greece Rome continue and the argument which i think is valid is that Babylon contributed the sciences to humanity the Medes and the Persians the financial system to humanity the Greeks philosophy to the humanity but what they all point to when it comes to pagan Rome and the iron legs is they contributed statecraft the threefold division of government that exists in many countries to this very day brother Tyler another good witness to that is revelation 13 where the beast is made up of all the different components or the leopard is made up of all the components of the previous ones and it's it's identifying the same thing that even at the end of the world this beast has all those components from ancient kingdoms okay sister Kathy the quote from seventh day adventist bible commentary volume 4 1168 which will be in the study that we're going to look at this is something that is a an important argument in what we'll deal with over the next few days we have come to a time when God's sacred work is represented by the teeth of the image in which the iron mixed with miry clay God has a people a chosen people this discernment must be sanctified we must not become unholy by laying upon the foundation wood hay and stubble every soul who is loyal to the commandments of God who sees that the distinguishing feature of our faith is the seventh day Sabbath if the government would honor the Sabbath as God commanded it would stand in the strength of God and in defense of the faith once delivered to the Saints but Statesman's won't hold the sturdiest Sabbath and will mingle the religious faith with the observance of his this child of the papacy placing it above the Sabbath which the Lord has sanctified and blessed setting apart for man to keep holy as a sign between him and his people to a thousand generations the mingling of church crap and statecraft is represented by the iron and the clay this union is weakening all the power of the churches this investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results men have almost past the point of God's forbearance they have invested their strength and politics and have united with the papacy but the time will come when God will punish those who have made void his law and their evil work will recoil upon this I usually include an up i cut and pasted these notes that's why i didn't but i usually include the year which they she wrote this I think it was 1891 1899 ok the point being is that first sentence we have now come to a time she seemed in 1999 we've arrived to at the point in time where we're at the feet of the image okay so that becomes a point of 1899 sorry of this argument about Daniel to you know if we if it's an 1899 that we reach the point where the iron and clay are mixed then how can we argue that the iron and clay are in existence before 1798 as the Miller rights taught okay or is that an application valid there and then a secondary application valid in 1899 so I'm not making a case either way now just alerting you to what we will be looking at as this unfold tertiary cases that it's continued on from that point pardon me in tertiary case the third case the third example you gave to it that was true or this is true or first in secondary or maybe there's truly continues on okay you follow him it's that where the Pioneers not making an argument one way now the Pioneers understood the ironing clays any of this of Daniel tues in existence before 1798 some might say that you can't put that into history until it was written in 1899 or thereabouts-- and Michael saying a third argument is that it's an existence before 1798 but from that point on it continues through history and therefore it would still be correct for sister right to say we have now come to a time in 1899 okay so there's the three possibilities brother Tyler you're misquoting her when you add the word now and it's important to the reading of that yeah that sentence guys worry I have come to a time when when god she's not saying now she's saying we are at least any time when these things are such and it's important to make that distinction because if you say now you have to you have just start it from 1899 yeah okay okay revelation 13 11 sister Esther not nothing at the verse the comment comes afterwards you can read them both if you like revelation 13 11 first go ahead and read that what you started doing now sister Esther speaking of the nation no I don't know how I know this I'm not trying to talk about myself okay but I don't know of anyone that was teaching what I'm going to tell you I started teaching a long time ago before i did there may have been I don't know everything that's been talked in in Adventism but many years ago I started teaching I'd ask the question to the audience in fact like we could have read verses 11 through 15 right now and I could have asked you the question and I probably would have elicited the same answer from you guys that you almost always get you read through the verses 11 through 15 in Revelation 13 and then you ask your audience how many images that the beasts are in those verses and invariably they'll say one because in verse 14 the United States goes out to the world and commands them to set up an image of the Beast and as you read it that's really the only reference in there but if you understand verse 11 correctly you know that when the United States speaks as a dragon that that is the Sunday law in the United States and you have evidence that at that point the image of the beast in the United States has been fully formed so there is two images of the beast in Revelation 13 11 through 15 and this becomes important for us to see because the image of the beast if it is iron and clay it may very well have an application in the United States before the Sunday law and then another application from the Sunday law to the end of time and it does but if you don't see that there's two images of the beast in these verses you have a difficult time nailing that down okay but I'm not I'm not going there yet i'm just putting that in your memory brain what is the image of the beast it takes place when there's a speaking okay and in verse 15 of Revelation 13 it tells us that the United States has the power to give this image of the beast life that it should both speak so that image of the beast in verse 15 is going to speak but there was just a speaking in verse 11 that sister Esther read about and we know as Adventist that's the United States and it's an action of the legislative and judicial authorities legislative and judicial judicial authorities would be what would it be the church or would it be the state state so it's a state that speaks okay brother Jason great controversy 48 48 the enforcement of Sunday keeping on the part of Protestant churches is an enforcement of the worship of the papacy of the beast those who understanding the claims of the fourth commandment choose to observe the false instead of the true Sabbath are there by paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded now this is a very important next sentence that he's about to rain in my mind but in the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power the churches with themselves form an image to the Beast hence the enforced enforcement of Sunday keeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast his image okay if you're going to worship the image of the beast it has to be in existence okay so when the United States passes the Sunday law she's saying they're the church's will have formed an image of the Beast there's an image of the beast in Revelation 13 11 when the United States speaks okay so there's two images it to be imaged of the beast in Revelation 13 brother Tyler but what is the image of the beast and how is it formed how is it to be formed the image is made by the two-horned beast and is an image to the Beast it is also called an image of the Beast then to learn what the image is like and how it is to be formed we must study the characteristics of the Beast itself the papacy continued yep when the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen riots and customs she lost the spirit in power of God and in order to control the conscience of the people she sought the support of the secular power the result was the papacy a church that controlled the power of the state and employed it to further her own ends especially for the punishment of heresy in order for the United States to form an image of the Beast the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends okay so this is something that takes it has to be developed brother Chris will you read revelation 13 verses 14 and 15 which is after verse 11 after the United States has spoken after the United States has passed the Sunday law after the image of the Beast is being enforced in the United States wait a second really crisp could you explain it different between a region image of the beast and an image to the Beast I think I can but I'm not going to I'm not going to I'm going to finish this and I have five minutes I just know I can't do it quickly what's America's national religion Protestantism official know that we don't have an official religion that's the Constitution forbids at it one for the church to type of state what to do England we got Church of England yeah so you're gonna have to get a religion first before the religion can't out of state what to do if I angelica watch what the evangelicals are going to do over the next nine months here in the United States and you're going to find that it was not Hinduism that sways the reluctant elections or Buddhism our new ageism you might argue that all azizam but Catholicism claims to be Christian though it's not it's Protestant America that's that's how sister white talked about it and she talks about apostate Protestantism and that's what the argument of these right-wing conservatives is here in the United States and some of them go so far to say that this is a Christian nation and we need to get back under Old Testament secular rules do you think that America would have to do this so much to do what actually establish establish a national religion yeah yes that's part of the process brother Chris verses 14 and 15 says and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do on the side of the Beast saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the Beast which had the wound by a sword and did live and he and he had power to give life unto the image of the Beast that the image of the Beast should both speak and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed ok that was the activity of the United States forcing the whole world to set up an image of the beast and the definition of the image of the beast is the combination of church and state with the church and control of the relationship the United States is going to force the world to come under the umbrella of a one-world government political but the papacy is going to be the moral guiding force in that relationship because you have to have both a man and a woman a church in the state okay if if I were to I'm going to make this simple and is probably so Retta meant that i'm going to get flack for this definition if if i were to make an offering and give it to brother parminder it would be an image to him it would be an offering of him to him okay but if I had the ability to make a perfect duplication of brother parminder that would be an image of him okay the United States is going to accept the identical structure of the combination of church and state that the Beast of the Dark Ages had which was the papacy ruling over these civil governments directing their activities for her benefit that's going to be repeated in the United States that's the image of the beast but when they do that they are going to be acknowledging that this system of the papacy is the best system in the world it is an image to them it's an offering to them but to finalize verses 11 through 15 as America the land of religious liberty shall unite with the papacy enforcing the conscience and compelling men to honor the false Sabbath the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example one more foreign nations will follow the example of the United States though she leads out yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world so this image of the beast sunday test begins with the United States and then it goes to the world that's what revelation 11 through 16 is telling us so all these things will have I thought in my mind they have a bearing on us looking at the iron and clay in Daniel 2 and when we get down to the nitty-gritty of it considering whether there's iron and clay in the United States before the Sunday law and then in the world after the Sunday law because I heard the distinction about that come up the other night figured we might as well put that in play here brother Tyler you might have a closing prayer for us differently father we thank you for this day and we thank you for this fellowship that we could have and we could study these truths I pray Lord that as we delve into these different ideas of your truth that we could rightly divide your word and that these things would sanctify us and that they would bring us into a closer unity and they wouldn't be a divisive thing lord I pray that you would guide us into all truth and you would help us now as we leave give us traveling mercies and give us a blessing in our studies and in our prayers I pray that you would just guide us to the foot of the cross to make a full surrender to you Lord we thank you for all your blessings and your mercy upon us in Jesus name Amen