(09-30-18) Afternoon - Pride - (QKif-cRKXSY)

Overview

Video

Details

Publish Date: 10/1/2018
Speaker Name:
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-30-18) Afternoon - Pride-QKif-cRKXSY
YouTube ID: QKif-cRKXSY

References

Downloads

Download Video File
Download Audio File
Download Handout/Notes

Transcription

amen turn to John chapter 10 just gonna read one verse John chapter ten verse four so I'm just glued from verse one because some people are still finding it verily verily I say unto you he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold but climbeth up some other way the same is a thief and a robber but he that entereth in by the door is the Shepherd of the sheep to him the porter openeth and the sheep hear his voice and he calleth his own sheep by name and leadeth them out and when he pulled forth his sheep he goes before them and the Sheep follow him for they know his voice and the stranger will they not follow but will flee from him for they know not the voice of strangers so it's a familiar passage and talks about the shepherd and the sheep and what's the characteristics the characteristic of the sheep was given in these verses they know the voice of the shepherd and they follow and one more if we're going to burst by stranger it will not follow a stranger because they can distinguish between that which is genuine and that which is not genuine so I want to make the argument that if you call yourself for sheep or yourself a shepherd and the very fact that you call yourself a sheep you end up self identifying as a Christian don't you because a sheep and the shepherd is a parallel or a parable of a human being and Christ okay with that and it's not just any kind of human being it's a Christian a disciple if you like you agree with that don't agree with that what do you think well it says in one of the parables it talks about how the sheep gets lost and cannot find its way is that talking about a lost soul or not or lost sheep where was the sheep originally I guess it was in the fold so it must be a Christian but she loses his way so I'm not sure it was in the fog itself but it was probably out in some field with a shepherd under his guardianship and also I can too he also lightens in the parable to the world being the lost sheep so it's the whole world the Sheep so which guy would you would like to go at you have you have a sheep that gets lost and sometimes when the shepherd tries to seek after it it actually runs away from the shepherd but in the parable it's not that way in the parable it's crying out for its finish effort to find it well and there are White's comments on the parallel it says that the Sheep will run away so as I say which parable which at which level did you want to target that you wanted just that the one in John chapter 10 listen in this imagery it says my sheep hear my voice and they follow him and that's a good that's the person that's had time saying a Christian yeah so this is relationship between a Christian and Jesus is shaped in the shepherd okay I was thinking you were talking about all sheep you're not talking about a sheep just the one in this parable yeah okay if you want to talk about another parable you'd have to define at what level you're doing that because when you're going to say one cheap is lost and that's the world then you're going to go say all the other worlds were not lost this world is lost and this world is crying for the shepherd but you can also apply that at the level of the world so this one she who was part of the the flock originally is lost so it's a lost Christian at that if you're going to argue that it's a Christian that runs away when the Shepherd comes to it at first how many of us do that no that's only yeah so each of those parables can be applied in different ways and the different scales but in this one I'm suggesting that this is a Christian who's in the who's in the fold it's already there in the fall and when the Shepherd comes it follows and listens and it won't follow a stranger but it will follow meets its master the reason why this is important is this sheep it's able to discern two different voices and it's obedient to one and disobedient to the other and the reason why that's important is because many of us argue the following point and what is that following point that you see over and over again and you may argue this you can't tell if you're going to use the image of Matthew 13 you can't tell wheat from tares we don't know who's telling the truth and who isn't telling the truth so we withdraw and we say what we'll do is study for ourselves work it out ourselves we don't need to listen to human beings God can teach us so this is the last it's again these last two one in your notes so this is the last one I want to read outside the great controversy then we're going to go back into great controversy in connection with the subject of prophets who is a prophet in who is not a prophet we've discussed the different categories of prophets what their roles are degrees of inspiration we'll discuss all of those and there's just one more point that I want to bring up against not in the notes that talk about prophets this is taken from desire of Ages chapter 50 this is page 455 this is page four five five we're going to beginning paragraph three the chapter is among snares so this is da four five five point three whinnery two paragraph paragraphs and what she's gonna do for us she's going to discuss this subject that she's not going to refer us back to John ten but I used John ten to launch us into this study so that we can see the dynamic of what's going on and I think John ten key tells you that the sheep hear the voice they follow and they won't follow a stranger because they were able to distinguish between the two voices my teaching is not my own said Jesus but his that sent me If any man will a--the to do his will he shall know of the teaching whether it be of God or whether I speak from myself brother Graham tell us what these verses mean this is John seven verses 16 and 17 that's what she's quoting what these verses saying I don't speak my own words I speak the father's words and if any man wants to do his will do we know what God's teaching so any man wants to do his will he'll know what what God wants him to do sister Brittany if snip it now - sorry but if someone wills to do God's will he'll recognize it if his blows in line with God's he'll recognize everybody okay with that anybody want to add if you predetermine to be a search or after truth to follow God then where messages come to you you will know which messages from God and which message is not from God my teaching is not mine but his that sent me If any man will ahthe to do his will he shall know of the teaching whether it be of God or whether I speak from myself so if you really desire to serve the Father in this context when Jesus came to speak to you wherever Jesus is saying you would know whether he spoke on behalf of the Father or whether these were just his own devising this was just human wisdom if you like we okay with that interpretation sister Brahman sure oh yeah isn't there's a danger to done as well in my mind is that somebody would come to do with the message and tell you if you're really seeking God's will you should know which voice it is and it's my voice you should be this mean - but since you're not seeking God's will you're you're choosing the wrong leg and that that's dangerous yes somebody come to you and tell you since you're not seeking God's well you don't know which one is the place of Christ and do you know the question of some of your questions kind of a statement I see that as a that that dynamic happens more often than not the person who in this case Jesus he's telling you that you don't know what you're doing so I'll tell you what you should be thinking I'll tell you what is right and what is wrong it's it's a switching of power you've relinquished your responsibility and giving it to this other person and let then do your thinking for you and they're instructing you but this passage is saying if you really were a seeker after truth you would have the way with all to know who is speaking for God or who is speaking for themselves so she Lazarus or John lays responsibility on the individual and not upon the teacher forced in their opinions on you and saying do any of the leaders believe you're blind you're uneducated you don't know what you're doing but most often it is that situation we end up manipulating and twisting people to end up doing what we want the question of these curved ayahs Jesus made not by answering the Kabyle but by opening up truth vital to the salvation of the soul the perception and appreciation of truth he said depends less upon the mind than upon the heart so and we spoke about the mind in the heart I think was yesterday remember the day before what does that mean sister demeanor the perception and appreciation of truth depends less upon the mind than upon the heart it depends on how your heart receives the message rather than said I guess I missed a bit sorry if your mind you understand but this is it's not about you understanding the message it's about you receiving it in the heart accepting it alive anyone else but the Philip - maybe I'm wrong but I think here this the key were this perception and appreciation of truth English so good but to me these words don't don't mean the understanding of truth to appreciate very my I remember whenever myself the eating of the river book was the I remember exact phrasing web settings was the electrophoresis where I was blood reception of the children and she after what she says what the messenger the message of the second coming was a one of the most precious messages to us so here it says in my view it says that you're the way you perceive the truth meaning like how much you will appreciate that it uses the word appreciate how much you will appreciate and how much you will love it depends less upon your intellectual powers you meaning your ability to understand this than your heart so it's that's nice this release any person that were to see things differently us to see them the same so Becky what's true if a person has a understanding of what's true that went you're trying to resolve this it's less than an ideal that have an intellectual debate with this person than to try and address the underlying motives of the heart the pride of in this sentence is it the mind of one person in the heart of another person that's how you read that sentence your mind my heart not your mind in your heart I'm the one that's trying to convince you that I have the truth that's trifle rather than that's fine I just wanted in who's in mind in whose heart they see it you're saying it's two different people that are either rebuking him for the truth and he didn't go toe-to-toe with them and try and say why they're wrong he went about it in a way that speaks to their soul that's fine I'm not asking that question I'm just asking is the mind in the heart of one person or two different people the perception and appreciation of truth or the reception of truth if I take away perception appreciation the reception of truth depends less upon the mind than upon the heart so I'm saying whose mind in whose heart is that both the mind and the heart of the receiver it's just that the way you were framing that it was something to do with someone's mind that someone else's heart so the heart and the mind or the receiver yeah I just I just explained what that sentence means in context if you don't get the sentence right you'll end up taking it out of context I will suggest no the way you four initially framed it it was like your mind my heart but it seems to me then about other people that the mind in the heart is of the receiver so the reception of truth depends more upon your heart than your mind so one's asking is what that actually meant sister Brittany conviction pricks of art not the mind conviction pricks the heart not the mind his sheep no recognize his voice there's like a special arrangements over here maybe without even thinking about it maybe that's what she's indicating my mind without even thinking that you just recognize it from not a shouldn't think about but teachers he recognizes a special brain and I think brother Philip picked up the word perception awareness insight discernment your ability your mental faculties if you like your ability to grasp information to me answers to perception and appreciation answers to happiness thankfulness gratitude that type of idea so the receiving of truth is not based upon your mental acumen how clever you are your ability to juggle information it's more focused upon the heart and we've discussed that why our movement looks ugly I think that was a question that someone asked before then she says truth must be receiving to the soul it claims the homage of the will so without getting into a discussion of the nature of man in the sentence that we just read the perception of appreciation of truth depends less upon the mind than upon the heart what is that saying what is the truth required to touch where are they in the heart in the heart so the truth must touch the heart you know whether or not it touches the mind is neither here nor there because we could do it we could do a doctorate degree on these verses on these words but he wouldn't do much for us because it's all the intellectual so the truth must be received into the heart and then it says the truth must be received into the soul so what is the soul but if we all see that or agree with that she's just here defining it's a repeating enlarge that the soul is the heart she does it numerous times the reason why that becomes important is because once this truth enters into the heart or what she calls the soul then you're able to see its power because once the heart now let me take Nami let me not say it that way whatever the condition of the heart your whole being follows suit if the heart is wicked is a man thinketh so is he so he will behave so if you've got a bad heart all your physical being your bodily functions your behavior with all follows suit then if we agree with that that's Matthew 23 the Jews were inclined to clean Wow the outside so they would dress and look nice on the outside but they weren't cleaning the inside he says first clean the inside talks about the rot on Sep liquors that look good on the outside they're bad on the inside so the truth if it's not enter into the entering into the heart your heart will remain ugly and no matter how much makeup or how much perfume you want to put on your exterior it still won't look beautiful you deodorant it still won't look nice you'll still have a stench about it you can't sort the problem out that way that's why it must go into the heart but once the soul or the heart is cleansed then the out phone of that is all of your body falls into line and truly as a man thinketh so we see you will end up doing those good works because your soul has been renewed Bradford or just a fire or maybe not sure which it is yet so when we're presenting something to a person you know we're presenting intellectually their ideas that we're appealing to the intellect or where we're reaching through the intellect to the heart is that basically you understand what I'm saying cuz we have the intellect and we have the heart then we could have a message that only appeals to the intellect but doesn't appeal to the heart but shouldn't shouldn't the truth appeal to the heart through the intellect as a human being probably even as an angel but the only ability that we have I would suggest a lot let other people speak is that all we can do is communicate with someone and impregnate them with information in the mind we can't do anything beyond that so all we can do is give someone an intellectual assent to the truth we don't have any power to do indeed beyond that that has floated around ever since I've been at a seventh-day adventists is that we have to try to reach the heart and that somehow downplays the intellectual message but that would be a misreading of this I would think it would be because as an ambassador a servant the only ability that you have is to get this truth and put it into someone's mouth go into their being you can't take your hand all the way down into their stomach you grow and go that far so you're only able to implant them into their mind and it's reception into the heart the only person that can do that even God can't do that I guess that's what I would argue the individual must do that so those kind of manipulation of what's actually going on is a subtle way of deflecting that I only want to pick certain types of information that make me feel good or not people argue it's okay someone else yes and worse than that even if you were clever enough it's not even it doesn't have anything to do with salvation that's even that's even the argument which is either the worse of an argument that they say what's that actually how will that save you because it is it's only mind based so yeah so it's a problem that we face over and over again it's the character I don't question about that because in I don't know if it's ministry of healing or desire base it says that Christ method was first to reach the heart as a direct that's almost a direct quote so how does that how does this work how's this pivot you guys have read that right somebody knows right no I'm going to see if I can quickly find it and it's something to do with Christ method was first to reach the heart or something first to reach the heart I know that's right testing where that is okay I'll let I can't find it directly let people see if they can find that we found it CHS to 4 1 3 2 2 4 1 as the Jew is it the same passage this is Minister of healing 1 5 7 or Christian service 2 4 1 as the Jew in the steel showers fall upon the wither implants so that words fall gently when seeking to win men from error God's plan is first to reach the heart we are to speak the truth in love trusting in him to give it power for the reforming of the life the Holy Spirit will apply to the soul the word that he spoken in love speak in mermen and are praying for God to reach the heart through it yes that's in opposition to what we were saying before so I read that again as the Jew and the steel showers fall upon the withering plants so that words fall gently when seeking to win men from error God's plan is first to reach the heart we are to speak the loving truth trusting in him to give it power for the reforming of the life so when it says first reached the heart what is the first and the second just from that passage and though if you start in front of you it's not that easy to see so in this context it says if it definitely says first reach the heart if that's the first thing what's the second thing because I'm saying before that first the mind then the heart and and now we've got this other context it says first the heart so if it's first a heart then the war he didn't say that in this passage let me read it again I'm gonna go to cut into this from the second sentence God's plan is first to reach the heart we are to speak the loving truth trusting in him to give it power for the reforming of the life so what stage 1 the heart and what's the second stage right no he didn't say the mine give it power for the reforming of the line so if we were just to say reforms or the outward conduct so this is this is what we said a moment ago the reason at least going to the heart because once the heart is transformed in steps to Christ and then white says once the heart is transformed our whole nature the whole threefold nature becomes transformed so it would be three steps in that case mind heart your whole being this change here she's making the point that it has to first reach the heart make sure the inside of the bowl is clean then the outside will be cleaned so my understanding of this passage is reach the heart first and then the outside will get cleaned up and what we try to do often is clean up people's lives on the outside with do's and don'ts because we're all parents or we've seen how parents operate and most parents operate and I'm not saying it's wrong I'm just saying they operate this way by telling their children do this and don't do that whether the children want to do it or not whether whether they're buying into this they say you reform we're going to live in a certain way whether you like it or not an empirical the by and by the children will accept this way of living for themselves that's how most child development works I'm not saying I'm not I'm not making the point that it's the right way it's the way that most of us do it that you reform the outside and then you hope fingers crossed that we'll get the insides going to be reformed but she says God's plan isn't that way God's pan is not that you're going to be changed by doing reforms this is what monks do they damage their bodies they hurt themselves and hoping that they will become purified inside so it's from outside in and God will find them acceptable she says God's pan is the other way around you clean on the inside then the outside becomes system tomato I was gonna say with healing people it's just the same way hey I'm sorry healing people when they're sick it's the same way you gotta heal them from the inside to the outside and often the worldly way is just that you approach the outside you could you treat the symptoms but not really the cause and the naturalize to treat the cause rather the simpler so that was a nice observation truthless be received into the soul it claims the homage of the will so we're gonna skip over that because we've done a lot of studies on that in the past if truth could be submitted to reason alone pride would be no hindrance in the way of its reception so we're going to pick this sentence up if truth could be submitted to reason alone probably be no hindrance in the way of its reception and I want this to go back to that sentence the perception and appreciation of truth or the reception of truth depends more upon the heart than the mind I've just rephrased that sentence that we looked at if you receive truth it depends more upon the heart than the mind and now she's going to explain why if truth could be submitted to reason alone pride would be no hindrance in the reception in the way of its reception what is reason when he says reason alone only reason what his reason yes that's mine so if the truth could be submitted only to the mind pride would be no hindrance in the way of its reception so what hinders someone to accept the truth pry where does pride live he lives in the heart so if truth only went into the mind and that would be the definition of someone being saved no matter how prideful they were no matter what objections they had everyone would be saved there wouldn't be a problem so it could be submitted to reason alone pride wouldn't come into the discussion so what is that sentence saying to us in the context of from the beginning of the chapter up to now what is the problem that they're facing for the Gregory if you ask the question in boolean what's the problem with the people in that we've read so far in a context of if truth could be submitted to the mind only pride wouldn't the beast wouldn't be in the way wouldn't be a hindrance to its reception so actually not the question tell me what a compiler is and what can viola Oh some people might say conveyance provider there's instructions and you okay with that brother Gregory it's an objection but it's a certain type of objection it's quite specific it's tough yeah but but it's not even just making fun of it's frivolous and frivolous isn't doesn't just mean funny in the context of this a frivolous objection is whoa it's not just trivial it's hard to put our finger on yes exactly they're already cool they're ridiculous yeah yeah the attacks on the 2520 they're ridiculous some of them are really ridiculous but in the context of brother Jim what's your definition frivolous objections so in the context of what we've just said what is a frivolous objection what kind of objection is it proud one I will suggest that frivolous means a dishonest it's not just funny like these frivolous frivolous in this context when the compiler is they actually know what you're saying but they're going to object to it dishonestly so they're going to pretend that they don't understand but they do understand and they want to give these the impression they're actually we don't even know what you're talking about but they really do so in the context of the twenty five twenty when you say this is what they do to twenty five twenty what you're saying is they understand what we're talking about when they say we don't understand or whatever objections they have it's a dishonest objection not an honest one so in the context of this the truth could be submit to reason alone probably be no hindrance in the way of its reception when Jesus is speaking to these people and they're combining they're coming back to him with these objections what is actually happening do they understand what Jesus is saying yes because where is that information going it's going into their mind and they actually can process this information they know what he's saying they can reason from course to effect but they're not going to accept it because of the pride because for them to be changed that truth has to go into their heart and they don't want that to happen so you can understand the truth but unless it goes into the heart it won't change you and that's at whatever level it is however subtle it is you have objections to these things and the problem is most of us in this movement we may have objections but we hide them and cover them and the person that we could go to to show that would be Judas in John chapter six is Judas there he certainly is in John chapter six is he very a Capone iam in that group of people he is and Jesus is going to bring the spit test to his disciples whether or not they're going to understand his message in which way symbolic it's a test of a symbolic or literal message and his Judas pass she does he keeps his he gets full marks he stays in the movement he sort of gets through that one because it's not really affecting him that much he's got higher aims or what however a Warnock's and we want to explain that about what Judas is doing that test was not close enough for him so we can have these people who deliberately object to things and they can still remain in the movement they might not be open objectors brother Daniel then brother Nathan oh is that for that was so sorry processing can you take time to get from up here to down here basically what do you think sounded like a rhetorical question if it was rhetorical was it you can be not sure I imagine if a person give me an example then eg can a person the story real one by one or the first time you know Advan industry it's not enough just to hear that an application made for 57 in 1844 he has to see additional pieces that you know this is cetera to see that you know it's a perfect hole anyone else sister Bronwyn starting up studying the Stephon running through that story no just just briefly to make the point that you want to make so saw saw the Pharisee the crown Pharisee he gets the truth and he takes time for it to do its work upon him there's another proud Pharisee this would yet Professor Nicodemus so I was thinking Nicodemus there's another one this is Simon Simon's feast his pride was humbled he repented and the proud Pharisee became a lowly self-sacrificing disciple he'd been in contact with Jesus for quite some time Simon and he it takes some time for these things to work through for some people same thing with Nicodemus when he meets Jesus it takes some time for him to but for it to trick to settle into his heart because his pride is wounded when when that happens this bro Daniel we want with what Bridal with people that have our kind their heart to like yourself because you've many times and this with me when I present a message some some places you know we see that people understand but I don't know it just don't click and we will save people and if people have pride in their heart what message are we going to present for them because first as as far as I see miniature presents something right from their heart for them they can receive the mist how he saved that people because we have friends that they have pride we have family how to present a message for them so they can receive the message what message does Jesus gave because he says other White says the question of these Covina's their frivolous objection it says Jesus didn't meet but but by opening up truth vital to the salvation of the soul he said I'm just gonna give the information that my father has given it's not my it's not my teaching it's his teaching and he's gonna give that and he's not gonna answer their objections because he's saying you don't even know what you want your objections are not even genuine they're not real so they might say well what about this and what about that and you might say well let's give him the alternative message or a soft message let's give him something different something more palatable but Jesus doesn't do that he says he didn't he didn't answer their objections he just says I'm here to do my job you like it or don't like it this is what I've got to say yeah but it seems like okay I let you decide you solve your problem with your heart and then you can get the message that's what seems like you know what about Jesus - meaning no I'm not saying he was wrong I'm just saying it's pretty free to me it's wrong never see if there is another way Jesus is the way well I think what is babe it's the way of death isn't it another any other way would be the way of death but it would be as a man thinking I mean if you look at Jesus results they're not very good are they you know couple of men and you know under how many people say 120 120 men and women they're all collected together in the upper room it's not a lot of people I mean it's that level it's a failure isn't it his whole mission so he doesn't look good and he seems to me we're so focused upon instantaneous gratification that we want results straight away and I would argue that Jesus loves you talking about your family or friends he loves them more than we do and even he won't use a different methodology there's only there's only one way to to to actually have a permanent lasting result and when we try to do it another way it doesn't it doesn't work sister Karen then sister Tamina oh it's just a Brittany I was just gonna point out that he didn't he wasn't he didn't see very successful mustard that's what you said so I've gotta Manor as it rains it you speak Tagalog at me pretty hard to hear pride doesn't prevent you from being convicted it's dealing with your response to information yours and that's exactly kind of what this second sentence is that you just read if Christ had answered to the the camel he would have been and what he meant you was specifically creature message that went to the heart and was dealing with since probably Daniel the message that he's given is a very specific message that actually is aimed at the heart he doesn't want to give her an intellectual message or a soft message there's only one message that's going to actually deal with that heart because not only does it have to reach the heart what does that message I also have to do it has to have the ability to do surgery on that heart to circumcise it so so wound it that it's able to be freed from its since it conditions yeah I'm not saying there should be a assault and worse after a Razors just a different one could you not say you know you're not arguing let's say nicely yeah I'm not saying so it's a different message you'd have to give you have to do with the pride thing because it's the Preakness argument answer her argument is is this very message that would deal with the pride not another one other messages wouldn't deal with with the pride they would pamper the pride mister Britney she says not by answering the cattle but by opening up vital to the salvation of the soul the way I understand it is what is that salvation the salvation of the soul that concept is fully dependent on connections that we receive it's Jenna The Salvation Joey respond to yeah how did you send that my my point is when you present a message for someone and you know the person doesn't receive that message because I've cried what you do you just repeat that's that's what I struggle with you know some people in just over the year if they understand that they don't hear it what do you repeat the same thing that's the other remains - I'm looking to try to solve that problem you can't force them to keep it you say these are giving the same one over and over again give a different one maybe that will do the job sorry what what are you what's your alternative I don't know you're asking could we give him another message I don't say another message like a water thing you know maybe first the nature of the man I don't know that's what I'm saying a different subject and Japan I don't know what to deal with a specific problem of the heart and then your presenters for that message of someone that you already senton and you know that this person is rejected because that's hard he's doing it I was gonna ask if you could one more time repeat the thing you said about Judas like I remember you just passed the little ants and symbolic test but he didn't pass yet he had to have another test afterwards something took something the tests come along the line and what I would say is this people even in this movement who haven't allowed this pride through this truth to enter into their heart even though they're not openly objecting to it they've got some other agenda you know we could think about Saul who is open about his rejection of the message but there are other people who are not so open and you've got people you've got someone like Nicodemus who is accepting the message but he's not open about it either so openness often isn't the only criteria of acceptance or rejection sometimes people take time to manifest themselves so I was saying even in this movement there would be many people who have got all of these problems and they haven't been changed their heart has not been renewed but it but there still remained brother Theodore in trying to present something to someone so that they will receive it I think you know I've made a lot of mistakes in just evaluating based on what we're studying here because we think the problem is the intellect and so we try some we try to package the truth in some way that that person's going to buy it and we think you know they didn't buy it so I need to package it again in some other way or I have to present it and as you talked about like pampering the pride you know so we want to we are appealing to something that's not going to actually bring about their conversion even if they do intellectually accept it could I perhaps say that's bible-bashing Miami bashing you bash them with the Bible with all these no I do say we didn't get the first time so let's bash you a second time in a third time because we make this mistake if someone doesn't accept it maybe they didn't understand it right so you keep on going round over and over again and hitting them from all these different angles saying sooner or later you'll get it and the reality is you as you have just said they got it the first time and what's the what the problem is it's pride and sometimes we're not a tutu that we don't we don't recognize it for what it really is that they understood it but they'll curve I'll they'll pretend that they didn't understand it like I don't really understand it it's complicated some issue but the reality is they got it but it's pride and pride manifests itself in different ways sometimes it's not open rebellion it's not open objection and you can see there in this story of Absalom no absalom's rebellion ripened into open rebellion but it was undercover underhand under the surface for a long while ripening but it was just as evil then in that stage as it was when it became in the open brother Tyler did sister Rachel than brother Philip I guess with Absalom maybe it's not a great example of this I can't remember the story thoroughly enough but you can't necessarily know I think at the get-go if someone is being proud necessarily if if I give them the truth they very well may not have understood and then I give it to him cries I'm like okay I don't know now but maybe it's probably it's not but it so my point is it takes time for that to manifest into something you can see all right and then my second one is what are some other ways in which you said it manifests itself in different ways what are some examples in those false humility you know people are so worried what people think about them if you ask as things I'm not saying everybody have to come up and teach you got someone to do something and they'll say I don't want to do that under the and I don't mean if they're doing it falsely but under the pretext of humility that they're quiet and they don't like doing that thing but that can also be a quote for pride because we care what people think about us no one wants to look silly often in the class like this the reason why people won't ask that equations because do they they're embarrassed about themselves and it all goes down please switch the cameras off would be a lot freer people are worried what all those countless tens of fifties are what if people are watching what they'll think about us we write about reputations so yeah like the I don't I don't think people would accept this idea we say you know you can't tell about these people the first point that you made sometimes you can't tell you someone is a a good tear or a bad weed because you know that in between bit they can look the same and when I mean a good tear I mean someone who's cloaked it really well and a weight who's got a rough exterior it's not sometimes it's not that easy to discern which is which until they begin to ripen sister Rachel I'm wondering can we do anything about frying someone else's heart I mean I think that seems like would be a little individual work you know like we can't do something and I think that's the point that brother Theodore was making because the objection people say is let's do a study that will touch my heart so I would have an emotional response and feel good and the reality is that's a false response or we can do it just give them give information and if it's the information that God wants us to give to those people it will produce a response in the heart and more often than not it's a negative response but it's not something that's in our control we just give information then whatever that information does to that person it's up to them and this is what this movements based upon isn't it the everlasting gospel 3-step prophetic test that produces two groups of people and then they show you what they're really like and then at a further stage the production of that is by a singular message it takes two human beings and one ripens into something beautiful than one degenerates into something looks ugly based upon their reception of that message not upon the messenger or the Philips sister to Mina yeah we say that when for example when we go to somebody and present the message if they reject it it's because of their pride most of the time and I agree but what if they accept it and then there is still pride in their heart like you said bad wheat or good tears can we do something about it is there any ways I was wondering are we as brother Theodore was May was mentioning are we going too far in trying to get as many people as we want as we want to in this message like a large number of people and sometimes presenting the message in a in a wrong manner to people so that they can let you say buy into them into the message even though their hearts are not their pride is not subdued or no they have problems and they get into and then they create more problems because I'd be seeing this problem with the chili in the church for a long time have you seen that the church is trying to shovel in as many people in its ranks as possible you know by trying to present them with time a diluted message I don't I don't think we're doing us to that extent but I'm seeing it that maybe there is a danger in this perspective in this reality for trying to oh let's present the message how how did Jesus do because because we said Judas left the message but Jesus didn't call him in - he didn't present he Judas went there because he had an agenda all the people who so what were you saying I didn't anybody like a lot of boys yeah no sorry I would ask have you seen that happen well it's the way you kind of couched it as if you have seen this happen where we've presented a diluted message for no large number of people to try to get them in I'm not accusing anybody you know I've seen it in myself because I mean one of my greatest you know because is how to present this message in such a way as that as as many people as possible accepted you know in terms they're like a roomful of 40 people and you have to speak to them and you say well I hope everybody accept it or most of the people you know and this doesn't happen most of the time maybe my point was maybe I shouldn't worry so much about this because I may go to like I may present this message in a diluted manner I'm I should talk about myself I don't know what sister to me Philips I understand what Daniel says argument however we're seeing the church doing that to some kind of extend because the church had a message and people were not really coming in so they're thinking about ways how to get people into church and they're starting to be more liberal so and incorporating ways or messages to make it easier for people to come in and I think we need to be careful that we're not doing this with this message because we have a straight message sermon and it should be straightforward if you see the messages that's come out of the last 18 months good way forgive it could you give that I have a beard oh well I know that I personally in first when I first was presenting the message I probably still have done it to some degree but when somebody would attack something you just try to say well we're not really saying it this way so you soften a little bit thinking that you can win them but it doesn't really work you know like if they say oh you're making this message you test and you say well we're not really making it a test or whatever you know what I'm saying and I think that's a human nature maybe that's my excuse for why we do that because we want people to accept it but it's not it's not going to help them because the truth needs to be spoken because it's the truth and if you you can't you can't dress it up any way you dress it up is kind of error and if I could guess I we want people to like us it's really none but it is to be received through the work of grace in the heart and its reception depends upon the renunciation of every sin that the Spirit of God reveals man's advantages for obtaining the knowledge of the truth however great these may be will prove to be of no benefit to him unless the heart is open to receive the truth and there is a conscientious surrender on every habit and practice that is opposed to its principles to those who does yield themselves to God having an honest desire to know and to do his will the truth is revealed as the power of God for their salvation these will be able to distinguish between him who speaks for God and him who speaks merely from himself the Pharisees had not put their will on the side of God's will they were not seeking to know the truth but to find some excuse for evading it Christ showed that this was why they did not understand his teaching sister Tess how far before the reminds of the point a little bit it seems to me that Jesus tells us what to do he just tells us in that part in that passage powder so these curved eyeless they're people who have dishonest objections they've got pride and he told us how to deal with it which is she says the questions of these compilers Jesus met by opening up through the vital to the salvation was the soul and must that truth she says he opened up truth in response to their to violin so isn't that his next response that is the verses she just quoted that's the truth that yard conduct that was violent to the salvation of the soul was his direct response to them John 7:16 those verses so that should that be our example of how they respond and what does that look like in a 21st century from brother Daniel dealing with this whoever that person is and I think that's what sister Brittany was saying if I understood you correctly that there is only this singular message what are these verses saying in response to the message itself the truth what is the truth that's vital to the salvation of souls because I'm not sure if I see in these verses itself his doctrine isn't it's just the messenger but isn't the doctrine the whatever that truth is he's just saying I'm just a messenger but she that so I agree with what you say but she's not actually labeling or identifying what that truth is in these verses is she she says that his response was the truth vital to the salvation of the soul if the way I read that sentence and the truth is his response in this his the truth I got I got I'm not trying to I'm not trying to get you to answer his truth he's they respond to the game I got that but what is the truth because what what is that truth that's been identified in these hoses if any man will do his will he shall know of the doctrine that's what he told him that was the truth that was to reach their heart brother Nathan I guess the way I would that's why I asked how would you how would you frame this in the 21st century in this movement and if I understand what bro Nathan's suggesting is would say take the twenty five twenty so would say we're going to present the twenty five twenty and when people say we don't understand what that's talking about and then what never speaks about it or whatever objections they have their dishonest objections and he says this is not my doctrine this is not my teaching this is the teaching that of him that sent me and I'm gonna teach you the twenty five twenty and the reception of that is not dependent upon your intellectual prowess if you can remember dates or anything like that it's just basically the acceptance of that truth once he enters into your heart it will have that change I thought that the truth wasn't the fact that we're messengers from God just like he says it's not my message it's God's message I'm just a messenger that wasn't the truth the truth was whatever the present truth messages for that generation I would think just like for us the truth that we're presenting to people isn't say we're prophets the truth of representing that these doctrines that their son-in-law is coming our evidence is to say we're just messengers you know don't look to us it's gets god that sent us we're not it's nothing to do with us that's that's what I thought was was being read here or stated breath Nathan question it seems to me that there might be other truths that might be maybe more relevant to an individual that's not a sentence like we could teach them where Protestantism went wrong in the Miller history kind of catch them up on where we are in this history close the second coming but then my question we will that do the work that God is trying to do in changing the heart it's not the present truth but to them is it present truth to them so we asked I sister vomit trying to think about it through they came to him trying to trip him up about what right he had to even be teaching right that was originally why they were there so when they're asking him what right do you have to be teaching it seems to me the truth is he answered them he answered directly that question he didn't skip over that question because then his answer was in John 7/16 he answered it so to me that that was the truth he was teaching because if it wasn't the truth he was teaching he wouldn't have had that answer you know he would have skipped over there asking what right do you have to teach and he said I have this right to teach because it's not my doctor I'm Cyn deer and he answered this I don't know how to say it in the record his truth was his right to be there to teach that was the truth that's what I think that's what you say whatever is in vice versa yes all I ask you to tell me what more is in those verses that's part of it but more which says he shall know the teaching I'm just running what that teaching is my teaching is not my own say Jesus but his that sent me for any man winneth or desires to do his will he shall know of the teaching which Bible but there's only one Bible verse for that passage it's a revised version so it's not King James but it's not much different because she wants to use the the RV for whatever purpose where the reason she wants to use it so she's not using it from the King James so I'm reading it straight out the desire of Ages and it says he shall know of the teaching it seemed to me the teaching was the truth he will know the truth whether it's of God or whether it's my truth the truth that he uses to make the question the question of the kuvira's Jesus met by opening up the truth vital to the salvation of the soul so the truth comes after the questioning of the provides before because he's meeting it history well actually the pitch says he did not answer the kebab so he didn't answer their question because he knew they were dishonest and her question what he did when it says not by answering the call I'll write the question of these combined many many what is your authority to teach he didn't answer he did not buy it not by answering at the vial but opening up through the vital to the salvation of the soul which later is the power of salvation that's how I read it he answered their question it's their question was how knoweth this man letter is having never learned so he never answered them saying well this is how I this was right do you have to teach right he didn't even he answered in a way that spoke to the heart that said more about why he was there and what his purpose was rather than just meeting them up there on level I'm Hussein he spoke he didn't answer he did answer what he didn't know you did it's what promising but I don't really know how he did answer but in a specific way that attesa today is a and it just turned and that's what the next few paragraphs after the passage that we're in are dealing with like what he said proved to them he's at the right to teach in Ruiz where is the 30s tonight I'll just read the verses and verse 16 and the Jews Marvel say how knows this man letters have he never learned I'm gonna read it into the inner inner in a revised version that I read in the King James verse 15 the leaders were surprised and said how does this man know so much he has never been taught did you go back into the context they're saying that he's never been to a rabbinical school he's been homeschooled essentially they know his background they know his education they know he hasn't been to school jesus replied verse 16 I am NOT teaching something that I thought up what I teach comes from the one who sent me if you really want to obey God you will know if what I teach comes from God or from me if I wanted to bring honor to myself I would speak for myself but I want to honor the one who sent me that is why I tell the truth and not a lie so reading the Kings James the Jews Marvel saying how no is this man letters have he never learned jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine but his that sent me If any man will do his will he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself he the speaketh of himself seeketh his own seeketh his own glory but he that seeketh his glory that sent him the same is true and no unrighteousness is in him sister Bromley so I'm seeing that as when we combine these two passages the spirit of prophecy saying that he doesn't answer frivolous questions and then we take his actual answer what we see he answers this as the truth for this time right now is the doctor in the truth in each time is right now you have to hear this doctor on vision that's that is the truth but right now that's how I was understanding it but he doesn't lay it out what it is in this passage and that is it isn't it oh is it not the truth that he's been holding that doctor that she is let me read from 5bc 1130 6.25 BC 1:1 36.2 jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine but his that sent me my words are in perfect harmony with the Old Testament scripture that's the him and with the law spoken from Sinai I am NOT preaching a new doctrine I am presenting old truths rescued from the framework of error and placed in a new setting so when they say to him how can you teach these things Jesus says the things that I'm teaching you things that whenever it is I'm doing or saying these are not new things they've taken straight out of the Old Testament because they're Old Testament doctors not mine and I'm just putting them or resetting them in their proper framework and in fact what he's actually doing is he's taking the present situation and setting those present false things in their proper framework because the present is based upon the past so it seems to me that's what when he says it's the doctrine that they're arguing about this doctrine that he teaches where did he get that from their argument is it's his own doctrine not God's doctrine and he says this isn't my doctrine I've got this straight out of the Old Testament which is the same Old Testament that you're using today though you're framed in error and I'm framing in truth that's different I used to do reading that universe 19 people mentioned smalls first night in read that did not Moses give you the law and yet none of you keepeth the law broker why go you about to kill me to those who does yield themselves to God having an honest desire to known to do his will the truth is revealed his power of God for their salvation these will be able to distinguish between him who speaks for God and him who speaks merely for himself or merely from himself the Pharisees are putting their will on the side of God's will the Pharisees had not put their width on the side of God's will they were not seeking to know the truth but to find some excuse for invading it Jesus showed that this is why they did not understand his teaching I guess the way I'm understanding that his teaching is the whole message the Messiah's here the time of the judgment has come what a lamb is that he's about to die he's not worried King all of these teachings they were not understanding it and the reason was that they were not is because they found the excuses for evading these things and this is why they didn't understand what his teaching was that's how I'm reading that I don't know if other people are as well what I wanted to pick up the reason we came here sentence before it says these will be able to distinguish between him who speaks for God and him who speaks merely from himself which I'm taking two bees two human beings it's not God against or you know God on one side in the human being on the other side they're two human beings one speaks for God and one doesn't and how do you know who is who sister Brahman from your heart if you were seeking for truth if you've had this experience when new light comes new information comes then you know who speaks for God and who doesn't now I know in this movement there are people who have come in unawares and then in me have done this Judas invites himself Riverway we want to conceptualize that but for the rest of us how did we know who speaks for God and who doesn't it's right by the Word of God way was the Word of God know if they're speaking keep according to the Word of God yeah but everybody coats the Bible real quiet in the Bible how do you know they're not manipulating the Bible how do you know who spoke for God and who didn't to you the Shepherd tells you you know the Shepherd doesn't tell you the Shepherd tells another Shepherd tell to the sheep know his voice the Shepherd tells the Sheep and the definition of shape is given in this passages walk those who can't distinguish between the trainer force so before you gives you that ability you must have already been in the pole how do you asking how do you get in the hole I was not asking that you already had the truth in your heart yeah so that when new truth comes you're able to discern who speaks for God and who doesn't you have to have a prior experience so for all of us in this room in this movement who are not foolish virgins but that were but we're wise virgins how did you ever get into this movement how did you ever get here you must have been you got here because you were able to discern he who speaks for God and he who doesn't because there are plenty of people who said that man doesn't speak for God we do one of those leaders say where we walk in the light we have the truth advic movement Illustrated remember those leaders who are standing up saying the light is with us we have it not these other people and we're saying no I think we'll go with that one good we'll go over there follow that man not God but following God if I mean that man she says it the person who speaks for God and the person who doesn't speak for God and all I want to say is you know I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical about ourselves we should but we should also be generous and acknowledge that the only way you can know if this movement is the true movement is if you already have the truth in your heart whatever truth that is that you have already been seeking for God before two examples simple ones the ethiopian seeking for truth he doesn't he has no idea what the truth is he reads his Bible but he seeks the truth and the other one that comes to my mind is Nathaniel I know he's already a disciple of John but is seeking the truth for the Messiah like everyone else is and when the Messiah comes what does he know he knows who this person is because he's a Sikh of a truth even before the light comes so when the light comes says yet that is the truth I know it is the truth Cornelius is the same so all I want to say is that we if we're wise virgins have had that same experience so you know it's easiest look at yourself and see that your wretched poor miserable and blind and you're a wreck because you look at yourselves and you'd look ugly but just even to being here to go into this movement you must have had a relationship with Christ where anybody whatever anybody else thinks or even what you think about yourself you're not looking objectively at yourself and most people think you know I'm pretty objective and look really bad and ugly and I don't think that is object I think it's subjective because if you looked objectively through these words you'd have to come to the conclusion that the truth was already in your heart and it's the truth in your heart you're already a sheep and most of us looking at ourselves are waiting for some day that we were going to become sheep and it's never going to happen if you're waiting for it in the future and not seeing how the Lord has led you in his past dealings with you how he's brought you to where you are because you can never have accepted this unless you were a sheep so I think that's really encouraging plus it tells you that when everybody when anybody says I don't know if these movements teaching the truth anymore you can tell them straight you're a convener dishonest objection it's just not true because if you're ready a seeker for truth if you really wanted to know what God's will was you know who speaks to him and who doesn't and the fact that you say you don't know and we're going to stand back and see you two people fight it out this ministry in that ministry and I said well I wanna get involved you excite not sure who's on the right person who's on the right side you disqualify yourself let's pray Heavenly Father we give you praise and thanks we want to ask and pray that you would guide and direct and bless us help us Lord to take on these thoughts and ideas that we've discussed help us to realize the truth that if we have genuinely come into this movement with the fervent desire and a love to be seekers the truth already we are identifying ourselves not only as virgins but as wise virgins father these truths should not only be encouraging but empowering to us may they have the desired effect that you want them to have upon our lives we ask and pray that you continue to guide less and direct us we pray in Jesus's name Amen