The Sun of Righteousness is Prophecy P.1

Overview

Video

Details

Publish Date: 9/23/2018
Speaker Name: Parminder Biant
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-23-18) Afternoon - The Sun of Righteousness is Prophecy-Wwb9x_vol6g
YouTube ID: Wwb9x_vol6g

References

Downloads

Download Video File
Download Audio File
Download Handout/Notes

Transcription

amen so I want to go back to the document that we're reading what is a prophet but before we read that one I just want to read paragraph from the great controversy one that we've already read is just refreshing in our minds this is GC three four four paragraph four 344 power graph for great controversy and I don't know if we've got any spare copies of the notes so while I'm reading that let me give the reference of where we're going to read from it's the present truth November 4 1886 so that's what we're going to read from if you don't have notes and you've got access to the material on your device so before we read that we're going to read GC three four four paragraph four though the finite minds of men are in adequate to enter into the council's of the infinite one or to understand fully the working out of his purposes yet often it is because of some error or neglect on their own part that they so dimly comprehend the messages of heaven not infrequently the minds of the people and even of God's servants are so blinded by human opinions and traditions and forced teaching of men that they are able only partially to grasp the great things which he has revealed in his word and also let me forget to the end thus it was with the disciples even when the Savior was with them in person their minds had become imbued with the popular conception of the Messiah as a temporal prince who was to exalt Israel to the throne of the universal Empire and they could not understand the meaning of his words foretelling his sufferings and death so we've already discussed that paragraph before and I think we all agree we didn't have any major discussion about it I'm saying who's the prime instigator of the problem that the disciples have cut here John the Baptist John the Baptist is the one that I'm tasting the responsibility of this misconception that the disciples had I realize it's the traditions and false teachings of men I know the whole society has got it wrong but of all the men that were there John the Baptist should have understood who he was what his message was about but because he had imbibed those false ideas she says not infrequently the minds of the people and even of God's servants are so blinded because he had become blinded he blinded his own disciples and when the blind lead the blind they fall into a ditch which was a ditch that the disciples were never able to recover from before the cross despite all the hard work that Jesus was doing so we made that point if we go back to our document present truth November 4 1886 you are the light of the world I've got a paper copy if anybody at least you got if they prefer paper coffee yeah I will rent in it okay it's really small font though paragraph 1 the world is represented as morally dark and the object of God is the manifestation of his and the object of God is the manifestation of his glory to shine amid the mold darkness and attract men and women to the light the great and constant work of heavenly intelligences is to manifest God to the world to dispel doubts from human minds to enlarge and elevate man's conception of God to reveal the unity of the son with the father and to develop the great plan of salvation to human intelligence lists to recognize God in his works is true science to become acquainted with God in his Providence is the soul of religion and to know Christ as the world's Redeemer is to lay hold on eternal life as set forth in the gospel yet the world in its wisdom knows not God the footprints of God can be traced in the works of his hands on all around us but men who enjoyed the benefits and blessings of God see not God in His created works here not his divine and stately steppings therefore they are in moral darkness and there is necessity for channels of light to open the blind eyes to enclose the senses to in veil his attributes with the message with messages from his Oracle's that men shall not remain in ignorance of God and His Majesty that second paragraph paragraph 2 - Serratia what's that saying if he could to summarize that for us and after sister Rachel brother Mario nature all around us but we then edition the results of God's blessing we don't always recognize it as his handiwork and we don't see him we're blinded to it and we need our eyes to be open here that the merrier seems that in light of all evidences that God gives of who he is and he through his works like oh hey sorry I'm saying I got that yeah I'm carry all that Mendel men does not understand and they don't see the things that God has shown into it the true science to the things that he has created their evidence is on our own but yet men seem to have a different concept of who God is what concept did I have you say they're getting different concepts concept okay for a forest concept because it says that allure it's a different world for concept is or moral darkness they think all these rural darkness and watching this watching I'm just really the smart on part one sir yeah we weren't together before so while these steps can what while the answer to the walls of humanity is there in the things that God has created to reveal himself as the answer to the wars our humanity yet men's eyes are not open to these things they are blinded by the false conception of whatever jeez thank you sir will you finish them yeah honey yes okay of another think okay I have another thing okay sister Brittany but speak like this you have immediately in the second period second paragraph thank you I think it's the building on the first paragraph in the in both paragraphs she's saying that the world is sort of fashion and she mentions there's doubts and they're my she's kind of elaborating on how God is all around us but just say the last big game potentially on purpose maybe not okay hold on sister Kathy she's insanely introducing in the beginning of the second paragraph what life it should be about recognizing God and knowing Christ as a redeemer and she sets forth you that the world is in darkness they don't know God yet they experience the blessings and they are in moral darkness don't get don't get me so lucky running college I this was a brief idea of what the paragraph is darkness they need light and God and His mercy is gonna send light to open their eyes ok cysticerci I offered you my yeah but we'll be done by there yeah but they're just people buy notes catch me on the next one okay she's got so easy that six Andrea does anyone know more what hope so yeah but no Tina well I'm sharing with sister okay sister and Ray um basically to know like what God through the interest true science but man doesn't recognize that even though they make their benefits though is it perfect yeah it says what my intention is Dan says knowledge of knowledge of God is the true science and then it goes on to explain how God is actually involved in all these processes of nature and the Providence and even though he is closely involved in this for the benefits of man and are not able to see his involvement and they should be educated to see this his involvement for their benefit nature that's how grumble this relates that's my IQ smiling this apprehension of God guys still cares for creation so combines ways of healthy right brother James I didn't do those of worldly wisdom don't know God so he sends people with flashlights that they can see this with him they sense people's flashlights so they can see read that this week at work said that there's a necessity for channels of light to open blind eyes to unclose the senses to unveil his attributes with messages from the Oracle that men shall not remain ignorant of God in His Majesty okay so for me that was kind of the punchline of the other paragraph and most people seem to miss that that he's given us nature and was supposed to find God through nature that's what most that paragraph said and for whatever reason we just can't find him through nature so in his mercy I don't think it may not even say in his mercy but in his mercy what he does is he says look if you're not gonna eat you're not gonna find me through nature by yourself which you're well able to do I'll help you to find me through another channel another mechanism and that mechanism is what brother James you said your words remember flash we're mainly flashlights so it's people that he's going to now send because nature is not functioning in the way it was supposed to for whatever reason I'm not blaming nature I think the blame is for the other people but to me the point that I wanted I wanted us to see here is that therefore because of this them all darkness there is necessity for channels of light to open the blind eyes because nature isn't going to do that to unclosed the senses to unveil the attributes so his attributes with messages from his Oracle's so we all know what his Oracle's are if I ask now what his Oracle's everyone's going to say the Bible or some stomach akin to that some kind of inspiration or is that what his Oracle's are is it the Bible or not this is Cathy just messy messages they sent messages before it says messages from it's messages from ace Oracle yeah I asked what articles where you say messy thumbs so that's why reading this messages from these messages yeah that wouldn't work this is the test prophecy so messages from these prophecies that are in the scriptures if we were real Greeks where would we go to to get information and go to Delphi believe it Oracle trials yes prophet yeah 65 so it big profits I don't think he's the switch's per se copy so Nature doesn't function properly does it not properly not probably nature but we don't we're not understanding what's going on so he's gonna now send people to do that work so that men should not remain ignorant of God in His Majesty so I like that idea that is going to send people with flashlights title of the passages ye are the light of the world you've got this light and he's going to send people with messages god says to his messengers and to every individual member of his church ye are the light of the world then he uses a symbol to show their true position a city set on a hill cannot be hid neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel but on a candlestick and it giveth light unto all that are in the house let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven thus the injunction is written that Christ follower are bound to make him manifest to the world so she introduced the idea of these Oracle's and now she's going to explain what the Oracles look like who they are and what they're doing darkness shall cover the earth and gross darkness the people Paul speaks of the darkness of this earth as pervading an overshadowing all human society the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth do all things without murmurings and disputing that she may be blameless and harmless the sons of God without rebuke in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation among whom ye shine as lights in the world those who follow Jesus will no more walk in darkness but will have the light of Life the church who walk in the light our radiant with the truth from God's Word they are the mediums of heavenly illumination to the world dispelling the moral darkness the position of the church is to be the light of the world should any be pleased to enjoy the light of truth themselves and feel indifferent in regard to the welfare of their neighbors closed by their own closed by their own doors and make no special effort to reveal to them the light of truth then they are not obeying the injunctions of the word of God their light is hid under a bushel you'll notice she opens a paragraph by soaking about his messengers and to the individual members of the church and then she says everyone in the church whatever your position is you're required to be a light and once you get truth the last I think say two sentences we read if you should any be pleased to enjoy the light of truth themselves and not share it with their neighbors they are not following this injunction and they're letting their light be hid under a bushel pretty straightforward now what she's gonna do in this paragraph she's going to less person after person through the scriptures now remit the mold darkness prevailing just before the deluge was the light of the world so I'm going to I'm going to skip through this I'm not going to read everything that we had was the light of the world God employed him as a channel through which to transmit his light to future generations to reveal them as the honor authority and goodness and fidelity of God next one Abraham was the channel of light in his generation and had dropped down Joseph I've highlighted them in the document actually so you can pick them up and clearly straight forward Joseph was a median amount of light motus was God's channel of communication to Pharaoh the Hebrew host made a living worlds made a living channel of light to preserve a knowledge of God's law and to show forth the purposes of God to establish and maintain the kingdom in the world against the power and craft of Satan so she mentioned individuals now she's saying the Hebrew host that's the whole Jewish nation Elijah was a light blazing forth amid the moral darkness Mordechai was a witness for God in his age Ezra Nehemiah were lights Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel gathered rays of light from above Daniel and his fellows in the captivity were filled the only one who is mighty in council so she lists all of these different people and just to were in paragraph six the last second from the last sentence so it's the third line up yep the light flashing from the throne of heaven ever fulfills its mission it radiates evil where it does not merit and gives reverence to God's claims and molds opinions when it fails to give permanent authority over the life and actions of men Daniel also was may the channel of light for generations to come to the end of time so she says Daniel was a channel of light for his own generation and for the generations to come to the end of time and where else did we read that that a person works in his own generation and for future generations because she doesn't say it for all of them so now we're amid the mole darkness prevailing just before the deluge was the light of the world gone employed him as a channel through which to transmit his light to future generations to reveal to them the honor Authority goodness and fidelity of God and Daniel has that same level of responsibility some states of it yes I'm not sure I understand this question for this sentence Larry says the light rations and thoroughness have a never fulfill its mission it already in several even in a real way the before day okay just water so are we getting the Musashi from the throne of heaven ever fulfills its mission that mate or the next day radiates even where it does not marry and give reference to God's claims and molds opinions when it fails to give permanent authority over the life and actions of men maybe I don't understand Denis which speech you do understand we only the first sentence the light flashy from the throat of heaven and that fulfills its mission we are especially about to the next part as well okay so there's light coming from heaven yeah and whatever its mission is it a color is that it radiates even where it does not marry does this mean like it radiates even for the people who do not deserve it or what does it mean even where thee does not marry everybody they it radiates even where it does not marry brother Graham what does that mean where it's not accepted so it radiates even where it is not accepted or where it is rejected go exactly joking it's rather they yeah that it's in where it isn't where it is Mike when we say grace is unmerited favor it's not deserving so I'm unworthy off that Mary tonight don't recognize our appreciate what it is that God was anyone else so that it reminds me of in Chapter five of Daniel and Belshazzar's feast it was unmerited there I brought like and roped meaning the integrity parson on the wall it is this like here to destroy you or I'm just thinking about some way that you mentioned that that that light is just there to didn't seem redemptive to me are you eating this sentence that this part this ends at the same way the light comes and it cows where even where it's not appreciated how you're in there sister Alyssa then sister Brittany the irradiation where it doesn't make a permanent change where the people are they're affected by it not of the earth God has to be behind it but it doesn't sister brettly um I think she's been seeing in a different way what she said earlier in the paragraph with the sentence beginning with here the brightness okay I'll read that here the bright light from God's witnesses say it's Ray's bara near not only through the kingdom of Babylon but to the godless nations throughout the world God's law was acknowledged as authority over the consciousness of men the wiser acknowledge it as supreme the light flashing from the throne of heaven ever fulfills its mission we're radiates even where it does not marry yahoo news just that meaning what meaning the places where it's not merited or not just that one but she says to the godless nations rather american means is what does that earlier appreciated they welcome so does he where it's not welcome that's basically how you were reading that bit yeah so is everybody okay with that so I give reverence to God claims and molds opinion when it fails to give permanent authority over the life and actions of men even if it doesn't make like a permanent change in you it's still because it says when it fails to give a permanent Authority it's still moans opinions you're still gonna be influenced to be by the word of god by his life even if you are not fully changed by brother Gregory well earlier in the chapter I was talking about two classes the world and both book benefiting from what God had provided but only one could see it could it be that on where it's unmerited is the people who have called the world so to speak who has rejected it and it did last week his reverence to the claims of gods and moles opinions when it fails to get permanent authority over the life and actions of me maybe even clerical accomplishes its goals whether it's except whether its accept it or not please subscribe what is the question just explaining what that sentence means not being irritable from back to the age I'm in agreement like the folks that have to mostly they show the first part it goes even in places that it's not deserved may be rejected but the look but after that I give reverence to the end of the sentence well I guess I think about person they great talks about graduate with 22 to avoid that's it'll accomplish the work but even when it does go in places where it's nuts respected or deserves or wanted where it's rejected but it still has the ability to to fulfill its mission as the passage says it still doesn't work regardless of whether it's one and it proves itself and it proves itself mostly what it says molds opinions when it fails to give permanent authority over the life and actually the main I don't know Michael bublé's okay I said it Michael I didn't tell you said sorry see that might go both ways okay I'm not sure what that means but wait I don't know I guess I I see it grandpa please and that when it makes me think of whether I'm right or wrong especially ins that where it talks about we've got allows you to succumb to your delusion okay then it it molds opinions when it fails to give good and authority over life and actions of men but even if you refuse it there's a result what's the result if you refuse it but you'll be lips let loose to your divisions okay that's what each that's what you think it's saying here that's what it makes me think up I think this young is that yes that's what you're saying here I don't know think is is you know we're pretty then we don't decide I think or I will be wrong we're gonna have to add that quits in because we're all wrong someone who said where I came with that brother James wouldn't Daniel to be an example of this no idea you have no idea Nebuchadnezzar didn't do anything to earn the dream or the message that God wanted to give him but when he received it you know he gave reverence to God and molded his opinion but it didn't give a permanent it didn't make it give any permanent authority over his life for action was short-lived Ziza Kathy well I went up to the top of the paragraph it attacks about when kings and rulers make laws and contradiction to the law of Jehovah and that man must be true to the higher power so that was her lead sentence and I think them then last sentence to me connects with that showing that the light from the heaven it will go where it's not deserved but it will give reverence to God's claims and you know make an impression upon men whether they accept it or not so the sense this is referring to Daniel and his fellows that were in captivity the target I think it is you two sentences above it says God's law was acknowledged as authority over the conscience of men the wiser acknowledged it as a supreme so even when these heathen who you know someone like Nebuchadnezzar's I might say I don't know about never knows exactly the definitely someone like Cyrus I only say number hazard because maybe I'm wrong but I've always heard that browser was saved in the end so in theory it did make a permanent lasting result on his life but someone like Cyrus he was used to acknowledge the supremacy of God's law in his power but you know who still he didn't but he saw the supremacy of that so it didn't make a lasting effect on his life that we know but it definitely he acknowledged the supremacy of God's law and of the work that the Lord wanted to do his claims just like it says gives reference to God's law our God's claims and molds the opinions you know that's the first decree you kind of see it in that in that example anyone else you like a seed being planted I mean you don't know where it's gonna spring up but at the same time something might be said later on that comes up and that might come to mind to a person so I like that idea that it's like a seed that you don't know when it's gonna spring up but when it does it can influence the minds of people I like that point so when this reverence oh where this light comes it's going to shape and mold people's decisions whether they like it or whether they don't whether they accept it or they don't people end up making decisions based upon whatever that light was even if it doesn't have any so salvific effect upon your own personal life it still changes the way you think in your opinions it still molds you so I think that's what you said yep Daniel was also a channels light for the generations to come to the end of time so I want to skip down into that paragraph a little bit the light of heaven if you're there light of heaven beamed out upon a blind an apostate race in clear steady living rays and when the light of the world the Sun of righteousness had once risen it's illuminating rays were not only reflecting light to the future but back through preceding generations giving significance to the whole plan and purpose of God from Adams day down through all the patriarchs and prophets the old ceremonies were lighted up so I'm going to go back and reread that in a second what does that remind you of brother Daniel new light is a new light is unfolding of old light sister Tess is the Rachel what phrase the sentence I ran away and when the light of the world and the old Sarah mentals were likely that those four lines between a half lines the light of the world the Sun of righteousness me think it's Jesus and the light of the past ages is all the ceremonies that pointed to him sacrifices and and um Christ brought these to light and then to enjoy too so I wouldn't read and there's nowhere else has got comment across so this is one what we've already read before so you can just take a note of it but but but don't look for anything I want you to stay where we are this is 17 mr one point three or if you prefer to SM 102.1 so it's in second Selective messages but the one I normally prefer to go which is the original why need 17 mr this is the the two letters to John Harper Bell this is the second letter seventeen mr 1.3 it's a famous passage we use this over and over again this is a the first letter there in doubt there are those now live in who studying the prophecies of Daniel and John receives great light from God as they passed over the ground with special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order they bore the message of time to the people the truths on out clearly is the Sun at noonday you can see that the Sun at noonday historical events showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy were set before the people and the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of events leading down to the close of this Earth's history the scenes connected with the working of the man of sin and the last features revealed in this hearse history so as we read that awake through the ice 31.3 it depends if you're using a phone or if you're using the computer it's one point during the computer is one point seven on the phone they just pick out they just pick it up differently for some reason so just coming back to what we read and when the light of the world the Sun of righteousness had once risen it's illuminating rays were not only reflecting light to the future but back through seedings generations giving significance to the whole plan and purpose of god from adam's day down through all the patriarchs and prophets old ceremonies were lighted up so everybody was writing their answers but when you read the passage to me it sounds exactly the same but in this one from 17m are what is she talking about if you if you if you're gonna open this in the first sentence the heart is prophecy he says the past on the ground where special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order and then in the sentence that we focused on historical events showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy were said before the people and the prophecy singular definite article was seen to be a finishing layer delineation of events leading down to the close of this Earth's history so what does it mean this that phrase leading down to the close of this earth history prophecy was seen to be events leading down to the toes of this history my understanding is that if we delineate on the line which means going to line they're here this is the mirror right history as brother Philip was mentioning just now we know it's Miller right history and what's happening at that moment for a sentence I think at that for it the prophecies are being fulfilled so yeah it says there are those now live in who is studying the prophecies of Daniel and John received great light from God as they passed over the ground where special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order so it's special prophecies and they were being fulfilled and then it talks about order so you've got these prophecies being fulfilled in this history and it is the middle-right history and then it says historical events showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy were set before the people and I'm arguing there's history here and also the future here so you're standing somewhere in time and when you deal with the subject of prophecy you have to go backwards as well as going forwards and I think someone else inferred that in the answer that they gave and that's what I thought she was showing here I'm not arguing that it's the cross or that it's not Jesus all that I'm probably sure he's correct but what wanted us to see was when the light of the world the Sun of righteousness had once risen it's illuminating rays not only reflecting light to the future but back through the preceding generations so whatever's being fulfilled here these special prophecies point you not only into the future but they also point you backwards and it's that for me it's that unique concept of understanding prophecy in that way that distinguishes us from nearly everyone else who looks at prophecy because everybody who looks at prophecy says what's going to happen in the future and they give lip service really to what happened in the past you know you might say well 457 is the past but they don't really go back into that history and delve into it in any detail there's no light that's illuminating the past they just have a pickup point because everyone's interested in the at the end the destination they're not worried about the journey that we need to go through and above all people we should realize that it's the journey that's more important as opposed to the destiny you just if you still think about clothes approbation raffia if we call it midnight you know we're so focused upon that event I'm not sure why because by the time you get there it's too late you know we should be more focused about what's going on today our own experience and enjoying enjoying the right wave right word to use enjoying the experience that we're having today because that's what's really important it's the present so I like that this little passage here because it really is a good definition of prophecy and again if you wanted to put the cross there you can see the how the cross points to the future and to the past of thinking about the lines because for example we took the minaret line which were was present and then with that we went back to the history so how that that line thrown light on the history but is also throwing light in the future because you know I was thinking how can a prophecy throw life into both the history and in the future that would happen only if that prophecy would repeat in history present and future and that's why we have three lines so the other way that I sort of thought about this is you're here and if you want to understand how where you're going to be in the future you need to understand how you got to where you are now and how you got to where your net where you are now is based upon the previous history because this isn't the Millerites this is us 144,000 so the question is if we're going to be talking about the future how do we even know what the future holds for us and it's only by going into the past and tracing the prophesies down that that's going to happen I don't know when you has everybody read this passage before 17m are 1.3 I'm sure you all had if you were to read both letters to John Harper Bell maybe around 30 to 40 percent of nearly of all the important sop quotes that we use in our movement are found in these two letters it contains a huge treasure store but often that will quote you know selected messages or work or something or some other last day events quote but many of them are taken from these two letters his 17m are both levels no it's only their maurice they're back to back this is part one next one a 6/8 page six letter to begins at page six I just want to go back to this because there's something else that I want to pick up which is why I asked you I'm sure you already on how you read this so I'm gonna go back to that paragraph this is just because we're here so I like this passage there are those now live in who in studying the prophecies of Daniel and John received great light from God so I'm not it's not that bit that I'm interested in all she's saying I think is that we're here this is the Miller right history and we're life here and I'll give you the year it's 1896 the reason why that's relevant is she's been sent to Australia and the Union has basically been broken up every what Jones Wagner another white they've broken up that that Union and obviously that the whole church is in disarray now and so there are people who are now really studying prophecy because Raglan Jones have introduced the concept of prophecy and if you go to the history of this person he's a disgruntled essentially is disgruntled layperson so he's got these this axe to grind against the church if you like and because he's got this problem with the church he already knows the church has a false concept of prophecy because Ellen White's pretty public about that Jones and Waggoner a vocal that you know people don't even understand down you to and who the toes were and so everyone studying and this person has developed this his views on prophecy and these letters are there to basically tell him the wherever he's doing he's just he's lost a plot in his understanding of prophecy so he's just saying here is that the people who are alive here and the same people who are alive in the middle right history some of those people are not passed away yet and she's an example of that there are those now living who's who in studying the prophecies of Daniel and John received great light from God as they passed over the ground where special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order what do you how do you understand what that means which after the word God as they passed over the ground where special prophecies were in process of fulfillment brother Larry as I see the word fast over the ground before you answer let me kind of look and ask more specific question but let me frame it in a different way this is about them in the right history so what the question I'm asking is another perspective of what the middle-right history looks like because that's what this is showing us so that's why I'm asking the question so I want us to see and what millerite history looks like in in the context of this sentence that's why I'm asking the question you don't have to change your answer I'm just I'm not trying to change your answer but what you're going to say just making sure that people understand why I'm asking the question the sentence begins with there and then it says they receive great light from God and it's the bit from eyes to the end of the sentence the first part all that saying is that there are people alive in 1896 there were alive here in the middle write history and they received great light so I just wanted an explanation of what that rest of the sentence is saying there is great light as a part of the growl of special prophecies we process the fulfillment what does that mean the ground that they're passing over is the previous light as they're looking at it and seeing the prophecy being fulfilled and then the one Center are actually also fulfilled for them in their order that means mr. Reichel you understand what brother Larry just said so today anybody understand well actually even if it's one person okay I asked her because something experienced brethren who Benton who who have read this lots of time they may be familiar with it so I just carry on yeah dragged in so I'm saying that this ground that they're passing over these men and this ground to me would be the light and so okay nervous it's just just right what you say that sounds right because the ground more licks looks like it could be time as well yeah that's more time I think and you want to know the specifics and then I'm saying that they're standing in time as these prophecies are in their fulfillment in order but this kind of repeat with the sentences saying I'm really done someone someone wrote in and I didn't see exactly what they wrote I got told I don't if it was a real criticism or a concern but it was positive anyway about the way some of these classes are going and what the concern or the criticism or the objection is that the way I direct class is we're not using william miller's rules I'm not using William Willis rules so we read us and we read something and I don't let people go to other verses to explain that verse which we will call proof text in or line upon line so because I don't allow people to do that people are worried that I'm using some kind of force or strange methodology which is not William Miller's rules so as I said you know we've all read this before and if I were to ask you each of you what you get from that paragraph we probably all say well it's a mead live with another write history we've got the word delineation so we can do line upon line and we've got historical events and prophecy so you know we'd have some vague idea about what that means but when and I'm not asking that I know that I've been as frameless like when I ask pointed questions I'm not really asking a pointed question I'm just saying just tell me what the sentence mean it's not that easy it's not that easy to see when because we just read over them and the problem is in an hour-and-a-half class sometimes you can't even get past one verse and so it looks like all I'm doing is you're saying you're only allowed to stay in one verse and proof texts in as we normally do it is wrong so I'm talking to the camera to this person or persons who are complaining to say I do believe improve texting but I think both of you are objecting to this methodology I want to sort of turn it around and saying you folks are breaking the rules and when the primary rules is upon the testimony of two a thing is established and I've said this before but I'm gonna say it again if I have a verse and the verse is chapter 9 verse 11 if you have this verse and I say what is that verse mean and you say I'm not sure but it's got the beast in it so I don't know what's at the front of it and I don't know what's at the back of it but it's got the word beast and we all know what the Beast is you know we go either go on the charts where we go to revelation 17 and everybody knows what the be see so we just can take that beast bring it into here and we'll say our chapter 9 verse you'll ever and it's talking about the papacy it's obvious we know we're talking about the papacy but I'm not asking that I'm asking what is the verse saying and what we've done is because we're not sure we just well we don't even put care to look we just take that beast and we go somewhere else I'm saying what you've done is the first testimony that you should gather together which would be this first verse you've ignored so you've gone to a revelation 17 verse and you found the beast here and you're going to say well I know that beast II so therefore that beast must be the same one and all you've done is you've gone that's your first testimony this isn't your first testimony now so I'm saying you need to find the second testimony so you've got two testimonies then you might be able to do this and what ends up happening because when you get to this one I'm going to say can you just explain that verse for me and they'll say well I'll go to another verse and you end up chasing your tail you actually break the rules by no understanding the verse now doing a qualify that through some verses which are not easy to understand and that's because of our ignorance I we're not skilled or the Holy Spirit may not have opened the verse to us in the way that we need it so there's various reasons why we might not understand the verse if you don't for sure go to another place William Miller does that go to the Book of Daniel and what does he say about the word daily I didn't even these who asked you because I mean I said go to the Book of Daniel all you all you would have said no and I said what subject is he talking about you all have known the daily so go to the daily and he says what looked in the Book of Daniel and I try to understand what the daily is so can't find out what the daily means he's even worse he says I couldn't find it anywhere else in the Bible and all of us are gonna say that's crazy because he's ninety nine times in the Bible everywhere else five times in the Book of Daniel and he's just not a good scholar that's kind of the argument you're gonna develop until you start actually realizing what he means because what he is actually saying is actually I know more about it than you do even without all your Greek and Hebrew or whatever I know don't actually need Greek and Hebrew in there but I know that in the Book of Daniel the daily grammatically serves us what part of grammar what is it it's a noun now you know if you hadn't been told that and it's really only this movement that's ever going to tell you that I'm sure none of us would know that when you when you when you're told it you go back and you say I can see it it's you know it's quite obvious but I don't think it's intuitively obvious when you just read it contextually it doesn't read that way the fact that they put the word sacrifice in it just send you in the wrong direction so if you go everywhere else and it's an adjective or an adverb but he realizes that it's not and he's come to a standstill because he can't go anywhere in the Bible too weak he looks at those things and he can't work it out when it means in those verses in the Book of Daniel and then he goes else when he can't find it either until he goes to second Thessalonians and we all know the story of how that works so that would be an example of you go to a verse and it's just not explainable in the context of the verse then the chapter and then the book it's not you can't see it so then you'd have to go outside to be able to develop your arguments so I'm not opposed to that but I'm saying we do it too prematurely so coming back to this this question of what this means we see great light from God as a part over the ground with special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order and you know I want to just add this other bit part of the problem I find and then about other teachers is that I've seen something and I want to say I want you to see what I've seen which means they are if asked a specific question I'll give you the answer huh so it just becomes like you just parrot in what I want you to say so I have to keep it vague but still I want a specific answer in you having a second guess what does what see what's even looking for but I do try and keep it pretty pretty focus all I want is to say can you just explain what you get from that sentence and the other thing that why don't it be too specific use come times you'll see something that I haven't seen and if I was very specific like new light wouldn't come I wouldn't learn none of us would learn you wouldn't find gems so there is there is method there is reasoning behind why don't ask two specific questions because I'm thinking I don't know constrain the Holy Spirit you might see something that is some really beautiful thing that no one's seen that I haven't seen and we say you know we never saw that before so that's why a bit vague about some of the things and that's why I'm pressing this to try and understand these things properly because I think we miss lots of things father Larry thanks for giving me the time to consider this I think they would be the Millerites this says they passed over the ground and so if you look at the little picture you draw draw they would be standing fast you know somewhere by 1896 cuz they're past the time he's standing here yeah you know an example would be the prophecies being fulfilled in the order would be one would be 1844 so as they pass over the grounds the time when these special prophecies were being fulfilled they're receiving you know great life I love that next thing whether Mary seems to be saying to me that these people they are studying and as they are studying these prophecies and they are going over they are receiving understanding about these prophecies that are to be fulfilled in their order say that last bit again they are are to be fulfilled but are to be fulfilled in their order where the gray library with but they've said already you agree what who say little Larry you just would buy this there's nothing to get away with that during millerite period we've got a marked up there day there is a fulfillment of events taking place prophecies and this is where this special life the ground the father Larry is talking about and they're standing at 1896 looking back at this period sister Brittany um I don't think my other word ground means light in this sentence I think it means the segments of history that these prophecies transfer transpire names not just history or a period of time time yeah but it's more specific than just time it's like a specific period you say it's the city so dirt yeah the period of time and I say that because uses the word we're after beautiful crown beauty and we often use this word where instead of when I and to me she's kind of just making she's kind of forcing the reader to draw on line and figure I'm talking about the things that transpired in this period of time like on a line you're not I'm saying it's a where it indicates a location on okay so where do I put way the millerite industry so right and way not they they would be in 1896 the day goes here and who are they the weeks that we talked about the day in the first sentence anything you tell me I was trying to pick up the first sentence received great light from God as they passed over the ground there's only one day in there yeah it's it's still referring to the guy who does nothing yeah yeah when you're done whoever that you reading the whole paragraph I don't understand how to apply that to the write history because it says that the scenes connected with the working of the male of singer are the last features reviewing in Earth's history and before that it says that prophecy was a delineation of it okay so too much for me the huge this like huge paragraph but you carry on so what is the deviation of events of the man of singing the right history now just 1788 you don't have anything else so for me it confuses me very same thing the people who are now living receive great light from God as they passed over the ground with special properties very process of fulfillment in their order what does that mean it means it is there different stuff they board the message of time to the people and they pour the message of that time to the people is that your answer I've not even understand yet the answer I was looking for other things so for me it says that the people were living in 1896 they experienced what happened in another lap in the Miller right history yeah okay let me just tell you I think it means we're running out of time look so we've had enough people Oh what do we know the oldest living pioneer is writing and how old was he but I didn't know I'm just trying to calculate 1896 in the Miller time period local mayor died in 1922 Alan why say one thing and she's 17 1844 17 okay so Derek don't necessarily not all traversing the entire 1798 from 1798 then that's fine that makes sense yeah I don't think anybody yeah that's fine that's that's what I was trying to figure out just make sure it was working yeah this is how I've read this sentence every day if we're going to sort put blip things where I wouldn't have put the day they're all to put those and I would have put they there those who are now living passed over something happened to them when they it's the same group of people but if you want to if we're going to put those words with their what I pick from this sentence is which I found really interesting is when you pass over the ground so I'm saying this is the ground so this is the ground the millerite history and as you're walking along this ground so here you are walking along this pathway or this ground as you're walking on it something's happening and the thing that's happening is that special prophecies are being fulfilled so as you walk through you get prophecies that are being fulfilled I call it P 1 P 2 P 3 there's ones that book any that the history are though that ground so you're walking through this history and these prophecies are being fulfilled so I'll do it like that so this would be P 1 P 2 P 3 and each of those way marks my understanding of fulfilled means to end will be accomplished and what I found interesting was is the great light that God is given to them is what what is that great light I think the great light is that they realize that the prophecies are being fulfilled that's what the light is so the light the God gives them is that p1 p2 and p3 are fulfilled and what's what the dynamic is is if we come out of that history and this is the same person here what's not happening is once you've passed over the ground so you're not in that ground anymore then were filled back then you don't say you know what I just had this great light from God that last week p3 was fulfilled it doesn't work like that the great light is that the prophecy being fulfilled while you're there while you're passing over the ground and it's not being fulfilled afterwards sorry you're not here and it was fulfilled before beforehand that should actually say it that way neither are you here and you're saying I think in a couple of years the prophecy is the special ones are going to be fulfilled you don't receive the light here and you don't receive the light here but you receive the light here you only receive the light that the prophecies have been fulfilled when they're being fulfilled we can if that makes sense that's what I think that's the point that I got from that that you have to be in the history is that as the fulfillment is happening it's not post or pre brother theater this is for the v/o what you're saying is that there needs to be people who are receiving light as prophecies being are being fulfilled in order for that light to be to even come or be understood that is as you're saying there's not people who are just God doesn't give light about things until they're fulfilled but there needs to be people who go through that experience because that the events being fulfilled and their experience are related to each other they're not separate events they're part of those those events are the fulfillment of that prophecy right yes so I'm saying oh there was this huge storm last week and I wonder what that meant and I read some in the scripture Psalm 29 did he shoot under storm and I'll say oh I always wondered I was wondering what that storm was last week so I've received great light about that storm last week and I'm saying that was a fulfillment of that was Peter Peters be fulfilled so I'm 29 that's thunder storm that's being discussed there because God's giving me great night on that and he gave me the light while I'm passing through the history of that evade that that fulfillment you don't get the light before handing you don't get it after you get it in the time frame when it's being fulfilled so as it's happening the light that we're receiving is to be able to decipher what's going on does that go back to comment earlier but raffia yes oh no that wasn't that wasn't I wouldn't try to make that point but it fits in with that point yes sister olivey that's theodore yeah just to finish off so that means you know lots of things that we've discovered we couldn't have discovered them before because we weren't going through the experience right we couldn't have seen certain things until those events are close at hand there's there's no way because because even if we had found some of the things like I know things I found even if I found them they wouldn't meant anything even if I had that information because I need that event to go through that experience in order to even understand the information so when you take that history yeah and you come to our history what the mineral rights could never have done they could never have predicted Daniel and 42 45 40 Part B they could never have done that because they were fulfillment of prophecies ahead of them and according to this definition of how prophecy works the prophecies have to be fulfilled when you're living them so when we come to our history this was the Millerites and this was 144,000 the special light that we're gonna receive is as the special prophecies are fulfilled in their order we'll actually understand the fulfillment of them as this light is given is being given to us we're not going to understand it beforehand and we there's no use to understand it afterwards so we're not going to understand the events are daily then 4245 until what happens just at a simple level until the time of the end you can't just based upon that principle you can't even understand verse 41 until you get post 1989 that's why I think this is this is a really important paragraph and we're very sort taken one sentence of that half sentence to really understand exactly what she means by it because it's she said some really interesting things and just on that first sentence that's the thing that really stuck out in my mind that you can't understand what the son Dale is gonna look like until you get into the time period of the Sunday law and you know we could argue that we're in the history of the Sunday law here just at that level and we are but we've still got a ways to go and I think that's why we still not understanding things about the Sunday law and as you get into the history of when these special prophecies are being fulfilled say for instance Danny 11 you know two three four five and all those verses we really understanding them as they're being fulfilled the 45th president all of those thoughts and ideas you can only do that as the events are happening so we're only going to figure out about last president when when the presidential elections are actually happening when they're actually in process of fulfillment that's the light that we have and for me that's that's actually is evidence that our applications are correct it's not the only evidence that we have but it's a hallmark that what we're teaching is true that the things only we only explain things as they're being fulfilled not way into the future that's one point like you so I've said enough sister olivine no benefit it yes I completely agree with what you said and I want to just do where the thought may be she uses the word ground and I want to connect that word to re-form line and we know we use the cultural model we have the ground you know that where we plant the seeds and the you know all the other cultural process develops there and maybe the ground meaning the reformed line is the time in which we have this revelation of the processes of the prophecies that happen during that reform life we do not know we cannot know let's say hypothetically there will be another reformed line in 100 years you know we cannot know of those prophecies because it's another ground it's another reform line and knowing of the prophecies of the of the past of the other grounds the mineral rights it's necessary but not sufficient it's not a special experience that we need to have one thing that it doesn't say in this passage although it does allude to it is these prophecies that were here and she's calling the special prophecies that and we know that they're time prophecies what we normally do is we just pick up random dates so I'm just going to pick up 677 457 and 508 I don't mean random in in in a sort of in in a silly way but we just pick up these start dates and we say what's really what's really important is the is therefore filmin but when it talking about these historical events and when you're looking back what we find is that each of these histories here that are attached to the beginning actually you're being used to explain and understand what's currently happening and again that's another unique feature about how we approach the problem because we're actually even though you know we might not be able to explain all the words and look those sentences mean because sometimes are not that easy but all of us have at least been educated to the principles behind what's being taught here so we don't just take say take two dates 457 and 1844 we're going to say well that's all good because we want to see this we're special prophecies are in there being fulfilled and the way we're going to understand that is by seeing how that same special prophecy not what's there filled but but what that started and we're going to see what ground the people passed over in that history that aids us to understand how they're going to pass over the ground in this history the Millerites were pretty good at that but we've refined that to a degree that is unbelievable I think if you if you'd gone back five years ten years in our movement the things that we say now I people just never imagined we could we could come up with some of the truths that we're seen and it's all based upon this idea that when you see the special prophecies being fulfilled as you're passing over the ground and we take one other component which is later on in that same paragraphs only it's all in one paragraph that the ground that we're passing over here we have to understand what ground they passed over at the beginning and that helps us to actually understand what's going on that's part of the special lights sister Brittany she's training for a first sentence she rounds out the last sentence of the paragraph from those or cutting into it those who in their experience have passed over the ground and acted a part in the proclamation the first second and third ages messages are not so liable to be led into fourth paths as are those who have not had an experimental knowledge of the people of God yeah I like that just as just at that level you can see that they're talking it essentially about the same scene they passed over the ground and here she uses the word they proclaimed the first second or third angel messages which means this was the light that they had they realized what was going on hence the the proclamation of those messages and the other thing I like is that you've got these two groups of people those who have done it as who aren't going to be misled in this other group of people that are being misled and I just want to bring in one point I can't remember what passage this was oh this is from the great controversy I think where we spoke we spoke about the elect I don't remember that class when I asked who the elect were can't move what the context of that discussion was or the 11th hour workers know so much the answer but what the context of of why the discussion came out okay so the reason the reason I'm saying this the distaff tip time that was going through deceptions that were practiced by a friend that if it were possible even the elect and so it was important to say oh it was Harold's at the morning chapter 17 that's right just want to get the context so this is for sister to Mina because this was her she had she had an issue with this so sister Mina I'm basing this on 17m are 1.3 the last sentence the sister Brittany just came up with those who in their experience have passed over the ground and acted a part in the proclamation the first second third angels messages this is this is the the servants this is the messengers in the context of The Herald of the morning this would be the church triumphant I'm not so liable to be led into false pass as those who have not had an experimental knowledge of the people of God this is either momentum and they're the ones that can be deceived they're the elect in that context who had deceived not the people who are giving the message so I'm just using this idea of who can be deceived and who can't be deceived back to that heralds of the morning chapter that we we did so she wouldn't mind me using her name brother Daniel we're out of time but we are here before you were talking about we have before the prophecies being fulfilled and now it seems you're saying that during the process of human pass and in my house I understand the point that you might feel nice and point you making and I didn't want to I didn't want to give the impression they want to give the impression that you have to do you can't make some kind of prediction the way I understood it when she says pass the pass along the ground I'm just saying a very simple level that and I think you can refine it I don't it would argue against this that the Miller right history as the prophecies are being fulfilled in the Miller right history they're going to be making these predictions so I'm saying we can't make a prediction of the final events until we get to 1989 and we say that to design if you're going to use that argument that the history here just if you go to this morning's presentation if you just go over this morning's presentation you'll see that there was the history that was being discussed about John Paul the second and it traced you through some steps he went from 1916 if you like in fact he went further back from that but if I just pick from 1916 all the way to 1981 which is going to bring you to 1989 if you're okay with that just simple logic as you're passing over that ground then you should be aware of what's happening that there's a prophecy that's in process of being fulfilled which was the time of the end prophecy so I think even that isn't isn't breaking that that idea because normally we say between 1844 and 1989 in a loose way this is the time of darkness I put a D for darkness we're normally beginning in 63 but the scattering begins before 63 I've nothing technically so even though it's not a period of really form line there is a reformed line in there there are things going on as you walking along that ground prophecies are being fulfilled and we should be aware of that so I don't think it's breaking that rule and I thought you were referring to raffia when you were making your point my argument is we're in the time period of the latter rain and more and more and more what we're doing is we're picking up way marks very split being very being very specific but if you just took the Sunday law as a singular event and which I think you can do you can just make it a single way mark the Sunday law in that history which is the history that we're in you can you're in the history of when the Sunday law began and when the Sunday law rend ends and that is 2014 and raffia so I think we're in the history of raffia being fulfilled because all we're marking in raffia is a battle but all of us know before you actually line up on the day of the fight and actually sort of clash there's a whole preparatory work that's being done and if we're going to mark graph here is that that battle then we must be in the preliminary stages of the battle you know the battle could be it could be like five weeks in five weeks or four weeks six days with all being the build-up and then you have the battle on the last day so on that just with that logic I would argue that we're in the history of RAF you're all ready even though we might not mark that event in a specific way that we do so I think it's in agreement with this passage the fact that we're in this history of RAF you now so we should have special light about predicting it and I say you can go back to 2014 which is the chiasm that brother Theodore speaking of which is the prediction of of that event silage predicted April for sign of April um August 11 sorry um two years before and Miller predicted 1844 you know 40 years before 25 sorry 20 burgers okay yeah no he's not makes it 25 not to correct you on the date is because what we're doing now we used to say midnight cry singular yvaine then we said midnight and midnight cry a bookend of a single event which we called the binding off so that's how do you one event if you like and we can put 25 here so if this is 18 18 and this is 1843 it's not midnight it's not that this is the binding off so it's the prophecies in process of fulfillment it's a singular event just at that level and rich the distress of Nations I think that they're distressed in before 38 but by 38 is in the newspapers that everyone knows what's happening he just marks a specific date in 1840 and it may not even be the best date to pick anyway for a secular perspective there were better dates I would argue 9/11 was a much better date for them to pick Britt doesn't it doesn't seem to be the prophetic one for whatever reason that is I say whatever reason in the in the in a sense that we don't know but we do know there are studies that have been done in Australia they still being refined that actually go into why it's August the 11th and not September the 11th and there are prophetic reasons for that which I don't fully understand that those studies yeah there obviously were you you're not contradicting that history because there's obvious examples where they predicted things before you know I was before you know even though they're right in the time period of the round the fulfillment it's still before you know whether it be years or months so we went over let's pray Heavenly Father we want to give you praise and thanks for your goodness we ask in hope Lord that each of us would be inspired would be motivated to honor you and to glorify you well as we consider the great privilege that each of us have in being here at the end of the world being called and chosen to be your messengers to be your servants it's my hope and prayer that each of us are inspired to take hold of the work that you have given us to do that we might allow our light to shine to all those who are willing to see father we thank you for your mercy in reality you had no need to send messengers like us to create us to do a work for you because nature is the handiwork is your book that should have talked humanity who you are but in their blindness you didn't forsake them and we used to be their father but you sent special Oracle's to work on your behalf to call each and every one of us father we know we can trace back our own experiences that we're here because someone worked faithfully on our behalf or as we see that may each of us be willing to emulate those faithful men and women who have served you and be those Oracles today bless us sir this end we pray in Jesus his name I mean