(09-20-18) Afternoon - What is a Prophet p.2 - ( kLaTduzUFE)

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Publish Date: 9/21/2018
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-20-18) Afternoon - What is a Prophet _ p.2-_kLaTduzUFE
YouTube ID: _kLaTduzUFE

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amen turn to your notes we're on page 2 review and Herald March 25th 1890 paragraphs one to five paragraph two one of the great troubles with us has been that we have looked upon men as infallible but no matter how high a position the man may hold is no reason that he should be looked upon as incapable of making mistakes the Lord may have him the Lord may have him the Lord may have given him a work to do but unless Christ abides with him continually unless he abides in Christ without a moment's separation he will make mistakes and fall into error but if men do make mistakes and fall into error it's no reason the we should we draw our confidence from them for God alone is infallible we must have the truth abiding in our hearts we must draw nigh to God continually for we shall have the powers of darkness to meet just as long as time shall last we shall had to battle with the enemy of our souls until the coming of the Lord when Christ was upon the earth he contended with the enemy for the salvation of men and when he left the world he committed the conflict to his followers to be carried forward in his name and we are to wage this war day by day hour by hour minute by minute to every soul to every soul of us belongs the battle not sure what that means to every soul of us belongs the battle so make sense am i miss me more as a part of the movement okay although God's people have movement every soul of us belongs the battle okay it just seems very strange to everyone of us I guess for every one of us belongs the battle we do not know what God has for us to do if we have only one talent we should put it to the exchanges if we are faithful in that which is least in the future we shall be made ruler over many things which should bring glory to God and not to make ourselves a center and God will make us fruitful branches we must center in Christ as the branch is the vine and then we shall be in a position to bless all who come within the sphere of our influence I am the vine the other branches said Jesus we do not half understand the this lesson we must learn more and more the significance of these words we need our eyes anointed that we may see the light of truth we must not think well we have all the truth we understand the main pillars of our faith and we may rest on this knowledge I'm gonna stop there so just making sure in yes so I'll be Tala sighs that it's not italicized in the original so what I've done is italicized when someone is speaking well we have all the truth we understand the main pillars of our faith and we rest on this knowledge so we had asked a period of time that's that is being spoken of here and people have said 1888 to 1890 1798 to 1844 they're the two options where would replace the pillars 18:46 so obviously these people are thinking what they're not supposed to be thinking I'm contending it says we must not think which means they thinking that well we have all the truth we understand the main pillars of our faith and we must rest on this knowledge so it's helping to guide us in the timeframe in which we're talking we're speaking of so I've put pillars sister Pam you said 1846 is that right yeah what are the pillars but Larry I drink on quiet oh maybe you don't agree maybe you agree with that it's like in 1850 okay so I'm gonna put 1844 to 1850 so that would cover sister Pam is position and your position so is everybody agree with that I was happy with 46 but if we want to broaden it a bit anybody got a different opinion on what the pillars or where we place the pillars of course we'd like my said what they are that's good yeah really good so what are the pillars yes sanctuary spirit prophecy love and the state of the death a PT's you said one a minute ago I think he said Sabbath I heard Sabbath yes did you say service before you think that's five I don't know okay with that for anyone else I thought was the message that's the pillars he's out you say do I understand you correctly so the same thing yeah so would you want me to do you happy with that you sure yeah okay anyone else read Bob I don't know whether they understood the spiritual significance of it but but marriage I was put marriage in there too because if you understand the whole thing about about the wise and foolish virgins and marriage and then there's more to understand about marriage when you say married what do you mean when I talk about marriage I'm talking about about Christ being being the groom we collectively are his bride and understanding even at a level as as as we live you know if someone's going to even enter into a marriage on this earth with another human being the spiritual significance of it and always in 46 that Ellen White got married I don't know about that I also know those reports to marriage you want to add something to that anything else your grad 2300 though is that in this timeframe or you coming back off and a barbarous 1844 so 46 to 50 so I'll do that the 50 verb I once thought 44 but after October that that history afterwards second coming okay so I just want to ask the same question but I'm not I'm not interested in these things at the moment what are the pillars I don't mean the doctrines so brother Dan you said construction so what are the pillars look like Collins yeah so I draw that day so you say in it looks like that sorry but these are the pieces of chapters on how and sometimes I'm afraid is that we all we just got put a roof on then we're say so there's no walls to build for this building used to be just like a greeting to temple where we never hear about walls but we hear about foundations and hey it's my question that's why I'm asking what you invaded your what you visualize is construction to look like except this is sideline not jamayne till I subject we will we say the pillars oh really the pillars came from that thing that's a statement he says I'll just read that bit again maybe we understand the main pillars of our faith so I asked what the fuss in when were the pillars I'm gonna change them back to fully for the his post disappointment 44 to 50 we had and people got all these doctrines of the pillars which is fine happy with that so you're asking what if pillars look like what does it mean it says the pillars talk to the reconstruction so brother Tyler saying you have a foundation then you put some pillars up like it's sort of a Colosseum no I wouldn't say it's quite like a Grecian yeah the two I was thinking of are either it's an open-air kind of thing or you just have pillars that hold up a roof or you have something like juicing you have that like the entrance Boaz and the other one and it's the entrance to a building but you've got someone sit work one two what those of them if each one of these are the pillars someone said the charts before and I guess you'd say they no one actually mentioned the third angels message is that I don't miss the third angels message which may be the Sabbath is that right maybe maybe we do that and then the sanctuary so are there only two pillars or we've got white added lots of pillars and do they look like this point one she talks about a temple supported by seven pillars transparent gold set with pearls most glorious this is the one you don't throw that back too late the pose is love tell me what it looks like temple was supported by seven colors so maybe they're all just in the front and then the walls on the side see what so you want like seven pillars like that to pretend at seven at the front then you ought like some walls around the side for the book when it comes to construction two things that actually support the load or the weight but bear the brunt is is the foundation and the pillars you know that that's what supports the weight of whatever walls you know or and and whatever roof you put over the top of it so it is it's meant to support but is that the only thing that you need to support is a roof let me help the support is it like these two stories have all you knew this is a pillar right here so you can use this and step through the wall and folds up this hole yeah how is it helps the roof yeah so if we've got pinions will be there because necessarily me know of wool is holding up so what's the pin is already set here we spoke for the roof on and wall done I don't believe that because it weren't built a spiritual house to me a houses and clothes and if we're like that then this has to be where we're modeled after that so I feel like it has to be a house type structure closure in clothes house so I'm not trying to be funny about this now I just wanted to think about it even if we don't come to a conclusion so if we said we had say four pillars or four pillars then you're going to build a wall between the pillars is that if this was a pillar at the four corners then you it's my question because if you're going to be able you don't need a load-bearing or they're not and we're supposed to be remembered ins but it says pillars specifically says pillars that's why I'm wondering how how we visualize what what is being drawn here because to me you suddenly starts doing this kind of picture work looks like one of those Grecian temple things which is all open but then you say well we talked about walls and stones so it seems to be a proper building right with pillars where you just have colors on the outside there's just too little about a shout yeah I'm not saying that's right I'm just I'm just saying it you know those are kind of the two options either you build up something that looks like Solomon's Temple or something that looks like a Grecian open-air structure that we're talking about so you'd have your building and then you just I think Solomon's Temple the lieutenant's are higher than the rest of the temple yeah they've got two pillars at the front Tate's I'm trying to figure anything I'm just asking you how you visualize and I've got to attain to get away from the Greek and Roman looking like things this is a big way wolves you're just making a group surely we know that Samson took me it all pulled down two pillars and a whole structure came down and if we know that the pillars are truths you know spiritually they all go together you can't pull one out they're all there so in that story if I don't know what that temple looked like I don't know if it had walls or not but if it did then you're saying that there were central columns in there which held up the roof so it was these central columns that that did it and the roof collapsed on them I guess that's what your envisaging in Moses's tabernacle there were I'm not sure it was four and three or three and four but there was three let's say three pillars to go into the holy place and then four into the most holy place in addition to that the cloths that we're in the holy place or that that were visible from the holy place another were multiple layers but the ones that were visible from the most holy place were all blue and had pictures of angels so I'm not sure if that's supposed to represent like there's not a roof and that you can see a celestial angelic host but maybe Danny if you're trying to draw it's missing the roof the roof wasn't being built yes I needed to tell it that within the battery roof that's why I'm asking so yeah all you've got left is to put the roof on whatever that roof would be we might come back to that so I'll move on just for us to think about what what pillars are all about the truth is advancing truth the truth is and advancing truth and we must walk in the increasing light so we're getting to where I want to do where I want us to focus now our brother asked sister white do you think we must understand the truth for ourselves why can we not take the truths that others have gathered together and believe them because they have investigated the subjects and then we shall be free to go on without the taxing of the powers of the mind in the investigation of all these things of all these subjects do you think that these men who have do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God okay I'll read the next sentence I dare not say that they were not led of God for Christ leads into all truth but when it comes to inspiration in the fully sense I fully sense of the word I say no so go back to our brother asked sister white do you think we must understand the truth to ourselves why can't we take the truths that others have gathered together and believe them because they've done all the hard work and then we don't have to worry too much about it do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God so my question is who are these people that they're talking about brother Larry who hast told you who these these people that little thing are the teachers I wonder dispensation I will a label or not just teachers nor so you think they're talking about the Miller right time period so I'm going to take this out here and you're saying it's this history here so the article was written in 1883 I'm sorry 1890 yeah consumer Nick she doubted mrs. snow so you say he's a Miller Isis they talking about but the pilot mmm she's 90 I think she's talking about I would suggest from eighteen eighteen fifty definitely definitely by 1863 forward definitely i I'm saying in my friend I was gonna bring her back even to the fifty but I'm thinking for sure by 63 to where she's standing son who's sure sister listen brother Larry are wrong for sure they roll Larry and sister Lisa I think so sure you're saying it's this one right here the SD ice you think that history when Larry and if toddler's logic is correct then there would be no pillars established in front of that more that's what these no dependency stopping if you ask what evolution is bring sister Rachel yeah I would think it's the bleeding men during the middle rights well stated neither eyes for the grain ponies what history they don't give you the Pioneers on yummers so where I've got SDA that at that time period probably Nathan I didn't heal you sleep say something assume it say Ms Brown the brain just a test right sir brother James don't see the leading men around any new yeah so but everything okay Bo the pillars were in cording to this thing what we're reading the pillars are already established we've already established has to be post 1844 1850 so I would have to go with with the period you know like we said you know 1863 probably anyone yeah who say who just said it can't be that who said that who talked and who logic was that because the pillars oh yes brother Larry you said he called me said brother toilet logic was wrong no I was questioning that he's right yeah then you say his logic is wrong because of the penis' yeah and I would think about are those pillars were established not all of them but some of them before 1844 some of the truths that we believed about the top who said 1850 so you say it was thank you I was thinking on the 50 charts if it's 1850 that's the pillows now you saying this pin is on this job I remember nine years ago the Brahmins house lounge getting told off on this issue I still remember it I'd never forgot it was unforgettable getting towed off brother Bob builders around the 1850 church turned out on the 1843 turn why not why why are they not only 1843 job because they the chart was made in 1842 and and God hid the mistake and the chart was never changed it was left alone they came up with a second chart in the second chart has more light and truth on it that they didn't have in 1842 how does that show they want any pillars I don't know rota Tyler I'm ready well the O'Leary's I want to amend is I guess you put that first tell you what what you want to amend it to before we do this why oh yeah I would want to amend it to the everything from 1844 forward but I don't think it includes the Millerites okay so usually guys from 44th to ITA yeah look and yeah her too when she's writing I guess you can include it's just two years I guess but the reason I want to do that is because if we're building pillars and we were established or were discussing that the pillars have to be built in the 44 to 50 time period then she's talking I think she's talking about this conversation she having is people who made who established pillars you know may or may not be correct about something but I couldn't be wrong about hungriness a passive okay so I'll go back and do that this is a singular point and it's this dispensation and you want to put into this one so I have it's only two years more so the years makes a big difference I don't know this conceptually it makes a big difference to me so I don't know maybe does it no I'm just saying cuz it seems that she's ready to present yet present dates some boys a sermon that you see me but I don't know if anyone who made it I don't know all the lifespans with people who established pillars who are still alive in 1890 but I could be wrong maybe there's a handful as a wife she she says that the 2300 days is the central pillar and I think 2300 days is a central pillar of our faith she's talking about the main pillars of our faith if the central pillar is the 2300 day that's known in 1818 and if it's the central pillar of other pillars in their time purposes no that's 1818 25:22 pillow 12/6 is a pillow top 9 is a filling for 2300 a central there's seven time prophecies isn't it okay seven time prophecies fans how you count again so you say his pen isn't in the right history because based on her logic and even we have it defined the pillars correctly and we would have to go back and get a definition of the pillars since one day it's mine I just enjoyed the conversation there is an input do I have to it would be not from you behind the quotation that came to mind was the one that she pulled up will be 2300 bills she also says the third angels message is the same so for me I would put the Miller the pillars the third a to message the same as walk central pillar and the third angels message betray 300 dice no she speaks about more than one thing I think it is in selected messages that she says it that day I'm not remembering the quote that I'm smelling I'm keeping myself out of it but yes I would put the pillars but another sister anyone else she's talking about the defense in the light house but what she's addressing you idiot I had a puff so way to get vaulted I'll just above you rather the truth isn't advanced in truth you must walk in the increasing light that yeah so I think the context that she's saying is we didn't stop to look to their promises because there's more light there we shouldn't say oh it's dawn they learned everything about that we don't have anything more to learn I think that's what is taught in the beginning of the paragraph and then she says that all the things about inspiration and things like this so who are these men she's talking about the Miller writes or than the people that came after them in the right which says SDA one brother James you sort of seem to be on your own with in in in a different dispensation no one seems to have gravitated to that that's right okay we've got Angelou you have one answer it's not okay on that level why you've come to so totally different answer to you've heard other people with their logic tell them why's it all wrong why why we have seen incorrectly well I don't know how you say they're not but pumps she talks about in this paragraph the truth is an advancing truth and we must walk in the increasing light and the whole one of the whole reason she's having this conversation is because the controversy that's going on between what Jones and Waggoner are presenting and what Butler and Smith are fighting and she's saying that you can't trust men you can't trust what Butler saying you can't say you can't trust what Smith is saying you can't really trust what Jones or Wagner saying we got to be studying for ourselves and that brings us into this history not previous history the advancing truth that she's talking about is after 88 or at 88 valera founder quote the pillars its founder of un Herald May 25th 1905 you can also fight in CW 29.1 who reads this we are now to understand what the pillars of our faith are the truths that have made us as a people what we are leading us on step by step I'm understanding that step has to go back to the Miller write history anyone else from Jason you agree with all of that I'm telling you she did it being troubled so your dependent is going to be the pull us back into Miller right history we've just started rather through all of our fake generates from right when I said Miller right mister I wasn't thinking before 1844 I think of all that food but um you weren't thinking I wasn't thinking early history before 1844 do you think he authorized he believed oh yeah because she's writing this in 1890 and to me it seems like it's more around that time and it's it seems like they think they you know they know all the truth they understand the main pillars these pillars have already been established and they're like back and he's pen is off post when we fought for free free board I think the pillars I guess I don't know if they're before or after but I just think that from the perspective they're looking back that when tellers were established saying we know the truth we understand the pillars do you pick already stablished or is it isn't there so you're saying wherever it is all the pillars are back here and these men are whom this history not this is true so since the test what are the foundations of our faith with the police come before the holiday so in my mind we can't she said this 30 their messages a foundation and a central one of his invoice fault 30 in their not 30 Indian sorry 2200 a foundation under central field that's right here and you got any fun could you description which above it's quite registry for our 9.1 the scripture which above all others had been the foundation and the central pillar of the Advent faith was the declaration unto 2300 days then shall the sanctuary be cleansed so what does that mean anyway it was both the foundation and the central pillar of the Advent faith brother Tyler whatever she do I know she is using both but I don't think she's allowed to break his sequence of events in terms of foundations than pillars I think I as I think about it now I think that she might be using that this truth of Daniel 8:14 the truth that it contains stretches across both things that are foundational truths and pillar trees for instincts you might say that it's the fact that this is talking that the Miller hands thought this was the second coming that it's describing that kind of truth that would get foundation you know the second Advent but at another level it's a pillar people just talking about sanctuary it out there you know but we know that they didn't know anything about the sanctuary doctrine before 1844 or after into the next sharing he's that the quote that you're talking about mr. Foundation me deliberately he said we got no other foundation it was writing a crate leaky Jonas that's tricky I would argue that the 2300 days in the middle right histories and even understood it's wrong and when it becomes an established truth its post 1844 because they have the date wrong they have the event wrong the 2300 days is essentially a mess before 1844 and it's only once you get post 1844 all the truths are gathered together so if we're gonna say the scripture which above all had been both the foundation and the central pillar we know that 2100 days is the foundational truth and you could argue a foundation is everything that's built upon that and then it becomes the central pillar I don't think it becomes a central pillar in the sense except in the sense that it's the thing that everything gathers around in the middle right history ask in my mind we nearly enough foundation isn't that the time that you place the pillars in you don't build and then put the pillars it's may it be gone with the foundation uncovered with it that's what I understand but I'm not I can't doctors rightly China what's that oh that's true we put these pillars out here we put a big footing down you you put the you using that a footing in a pillar you put them you put the footing down first and then you put a color on the footing you wouldn't put the footing pains in the Pillman I think that's what you say well I know that's what she said but I disagree with that I mean I think I disagree with it you can but you can't separate them what they yeah that's what I'm saying you can't separate them it has to be laid down in that foundation why does it have to be in the family you might be politically us hold it baby wait a minute I really support that's not with me ultimate doesn't want to come down I just want to ask one question what pain is were we just talking about we competitively you come clean about this now between your brother Jason you said you've been spoke about this building Luke get to this building repairs are those don't want these ones it wasn't those ones that don't agree it was very 2000 each point to other ones oh I'm talking or we're talking about different things okay no but okay I can use that I could still use that as an example though because those are just hold it into it they were built after and put on top in the country hold up just goes show it's the bolts that are connecting the foundation to those okay so they are but they're separate you build two separate things and then attach them with fastening tools but what is he smoothing standard point wise foundation blocks pudding pelvis yes these are filler they still 40 that we've got they're not pellets yes master so there's no copy box that this building sits upon the point of learning before they're put the footings are done into the ground in their concrete then they sit on top of those let me sketch out well I think you just said I don't know what I don't know anything about construction you dig a hole and you put a foundation and then you put a little block there and you might have a number of them and then you put a floor on top of that in the house yeah so what we stand in the pond so well I wasn't gonna bring it up I just want to ask to think about when we talk about what the pillars are is it these pillars were talking about upon which this platform is built or is it the walls of the building because everyone I've ever asked they always have this building which has these pillars don't worry about the walls and then you're going to put roof on it and I'm not sure if that molds even correct can't say it now that for the picture yeah I was silent I was exactly because it talks about platform over and over again and because we're in the 21st century we like concrete and all of that kind of stuff but I don't think they even had I think I've checked out he they even had concrete back when they when this was written and you know she talked about this platform what is it built upon Peg's and depend icelandic a whole model of what we actually invaded this platform to look upon if it's wrong and I found it interesting I think double check will sit for this and rent that quote about the sanctuary you misread it I think you misread it so remember the reference or no 490 now not that one you had another one about the pearls and all of that okay notice you found it I'll just quickly read that to you 19 the temple was supported by seven pillars the way I read that was like this there's a temple that's built upon a platform which is on seven pillars they weren't the walls that could be wrong the temple is supported by seven pillars their their foundational pillars I'm suggesting hanging in there and I did you have it towards that the vertical of the block you know right is over you have it yeah I mean I was waiting fat picture no yeah I I think but that's the thing you're looking at right yeah so I'm saying the pigs and the pins of this thing it's what supports the platform is that different than when she says I never read I've ever read the platform one in a little bit but she says they tried to pull timbers out yeah is that the same thing that's all I understand what they say painting the pins are holding these these support beams we we see concrete nowadays because say pillars so do the Timbers sit on top of the pegs and pins or is that I think the pits and pins lock The Killers in Vienna some kind of framework telling it I don't any technical about it only is it the pillars my understanding is that the pillars are what the platform is built upon or what the temple is built upon just reading by that it was put by simply listening okay so let's go back to our passage we must not think well we have all the truth we understand the main pillars of our faith and we must rest on this knowledge the truth is an advancing truth we must walk in the increasing light so I'll tell you what I think this means because we've got lots of varying opinions and the class doesn't seem to be gelling this afternoon someone's asking them because he's gonna is gonna say my brother asked her this is basically asking this question in this history here of 1888 as brother James has mentioned there's a fight that's going on in the church and what's happening is that there's a group of people on one side and the group of moving on the other side and the questions being asked we have all the truth we don't need any more truth he says because she says we must not think well we have all the truth we understand the main pillars of our faith and we may rest on this knowledge she says we mustn't think like that because the truth is advancing so I'm suggesting that there's a group of people here in this history dirt have developed this thinking that says we have understood the main pillars of our faith the main pillars of our faith is this history back here whether you want to go into the middle right history or not we could debate I don't think it is I think all of our truths were established here in the 50 chart and I think that's the reference point that everyone's going back to that even if because everything it's on the 50 chart except for the sanctuary and the third angels message was already here so it just gets transferred over this really becomes the focal point of the Advent message post Miller writes in this history here that we're talking about maybe up to 1888 yeah I don't we could say that I believe that but I don't to get bogged down into it but I want to say whatever was believed proof or before or wait says Miller writes it all gets repeated there but it gets established the truth of established confirmed they have a prophetic they're prophetically stands and then why it's confirming everything that's on that chart is the truth and that becomes the focal point of the SDA message if you like especially when you start factoring in the trade 300 days becomes the correct is understood correctly with the third angels message and ship her answer is no the truth is advancing we must walk increasing light my brother asked do you think we must under to understand the truth for ourselves why can't we not take the truth that others have gathered together and believe them because they have investigated the subjects and then we shall be free to go on without taxing the powers of the mind in the investigation of all of these subjects she's going to answer do that same person art asks again do you think that these men who have brought out the truths in the past were inspired of God and she's gonna say I dare not say that they were not led of God for Christ leads into all truth but when he comes to inspiration in the fully sense of the word I answer no the reason why these questions coming up is because in 1888 there's a fight or a debate between the leadership and Jones and Waggoner and what's the argument that the leaders have got what's it what's their argument we have the light and we're not teaching anything new today we're just teaching what the established truth is right back from the very beginning that was their argument and Ellen White's gonna say well that's not a very good argument because the truth is advancing and the testing truths today are not the testing truths of the past and therefore you can't just say well if they had established all these truths from the past and we accepted them we don't have to do any studying for ourselves because we can just accept their opinion because if they're right in the past there must be right now because they're arguing the Wagner and Jones his message is just some kind of made-up theory and because they these men were correct in the past all because all that everybody knows all of this was truth and they've been teaching this they say we have no new message people say well why do we need to study this out we'll just trust what they said because they have led us right back from the beginning hence the question do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God it's just going to say I dare not say that they were not led of God but when it comes to inspiration in the fully sense or what we read before special illumination I answer no someone had their hand up no I thought I saw someone's hand I'll read on I believe that God has given them a work to do but if they are not fully consecrated to God at all times they will weave self and their peculiar traits of character in what they are doing and will put their mold upon the work in fashion men in religious experience after their own pattern he's dangerous for us to make flesh our arm we should lean upon the arm of infinite power God has been revealing this to us for years we must have living faith in our hearts and reach out for a larger knowledge and more advanced light do not trust in the wisdom of any man or to the investigations of any man go to the scriptures for yourself search the inspired Word with humble hearts lay aside your preconceived opinions for you will obtain no benefit unless you become as children to the Word of God you should say if God has anything for me I want it if God has given evidence from his word to this or that brother that a certain thing is true he will give it to me I can find that evidence if I search the scriptures with constant prayer and I can know that I do know what his truth you need not preach the truth as the product of another man's mind you must make it your own when women of Samaria when the woman of Samaria was convinced that Jesus was the Messiah she hastened to tell her neighbors and townsman she said come and see a man which told me all things and many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman which testified he told me all that I ever did and many more believed because of more believed because of his own word and said unto the woman now we believe not because of died saying for we have heard him ourselves and know that this is indeed the Christ so does anybody want to comment on that passage try asking questions is she saying don't trust Jones don't trust the leaders study for yourself or if you saying don't trust the leaders listen to what Wagner and Jones is saying so don't trust anyone runs great and trust them but you just don't approve it so don't trust Egret you could say prove all things hold fast that which is true you'll say don't trust the leaders their opinion don't trust my own journeys you can hear them if you go work it out yourself you'll say don't trust any man let me see if I can say a better way than that she told me that can't be what she said which one called me what she thinks like I could go on trust any money because we have established before that we need to be able to identify the voice of God so she can't be saying don't trust any money but one needs to be able to identify what brother toilet similar to just the same thing but just at the point she also adds that you need to make it your own so once you identify that prophet a is saying the right thing or you know whoever the person is saying that correct has the correct message that you investigate that message and make it your own you don't just say it's the truth you know and I'm not gonna study it any further or try to understand it and just you know blindly accept it but you should also be you should be intelligent on the matter as also is being able to discern whose breath where the book in this arc earlier on the article she's saying that we're supposed to close the trust you know the men that God puts in place and even though they might be airing and make mistakes doesn't mean that we shouldn't shouldn't we shouldn't trust them but but we're not the way I'm understanding this as she'd elaborates further we're not just supposed to sit there and decide okay this person's teaching truth so I'm just gonna listen to what they say and not check it out for yourself and that goes to fold because if you if you do check it for yourself then you have confirmation that what they're saying is the truth and it also fortifies you because if we're supposed to be lights other people and sharing this truth how can you share something you haven't investigated you really can't I mean you can only surface lis tell people things but unless you study it out you don't know and you can't share it with someone else and we need to know for ourselves birthday to each other well I think she's saying that we should not entrust ourselves to other men with which is just another way of saying what some people are saying here we don't we have a work to do in understanding the Scriptures it's not saying that we shouldn't trust any man because we have the Pioneers men of experience we need to study their writings we need to study the Bible prophets the Scriptures so God has given people positions of responsibility they give in a place and we can hear what they have to say ooh and in a sense we can trust them you know we can we don't approach every person is you know with you know severe skepticism that anything they're telling us isn't true we have to trust but to entrust ours our salvation to some man would be an area why is this conversation coming up now here you mean or then then since this isn't this is in the midst of the 1888 struggle why the widest question coming up now about the bang that have been done all this thing why can't we just trust them what because both those people the people that were were leading it out in opposition to Jones and Waggoner they were wanting people to just trust themselves or entrust themselves to their leadership they were not they were not really even following you know Allen white gives counsel about sitting down with a brother studying things out understanding that we may be an error even as you know if we think we're correct so there was a distortion within the church itself of the role of the leadership if they're if the leadership had been doing their job correctly they wouldn't have been that distortion and you wouldn't have had that a white the distortion the distortion is we have the truth you need to trust us that's the distortion or we believe you have the truth and we will trust you for people trusting the leadership as well and usually the two go together because men cannot usually say that unless people give them that position they give them that authority okay I would say that we're not supposed to trust everything leaders say because then we have the risk of being a follower of a particular leader if we were to search it out for ourselves and there's a happy medium and then we can choose for ourselves how to challenge them and how to listen to them and evaluate and determine for ourselves and help others to grow as well that I think is healthy it's a balanced viewpoint this seems like she's telling how to not be foolish because she's saying not to trust in the wisdom or the investigations that we are to go to the scripture so just as the whites search the Scriptures for themselves and had these experiences based on what that's for less familiar with history around the 8th so I don't know that but to rest on the understanding of another is not what message or what Adventism you did that yes but then I go into the scriptures and I have an experience for myself and then you say oh that sounds right and then someone comes after it and says where'd you get that idea from and they show you that you're understanding that that scripture was wrong we thought sometimes like a rare occasion I don't know what the number all the time I don't think very regularly yeah but your that rawness is after your confirmation of what you heard and what you supposed to do they even listen to someone you confirm this out that looks correct then you get told actually there's not correct just like the killers when I read that their gold and pearl you think Jerry bring being a prominent and looking at not to be some platform there's a level of there's a level of preconception that has to be perspectives but if I were to just say oh yeah all right you said okay it doesn't that totally negates what I just said so I'm gonna believe it the teacher that wouldn't be genuine for me I would have to search it out for myself and make it my for its region is the Catholic guess I've been keeping in mind that the historical contact was so close to 1888 that and then she has a leader of the church she kind of says that these men she talks about their peculiar traits of character they're not inspired but in the same at the end of this her first paragraph their paragraph for me she says we have to reach out for larger knowledge and more advancing light which is opposite of what they wanted to do was just a rest on the current light that they had and then she continues and says but you know do not trust the wisdom of any man however investigate knowing that if they investigate the message of message of Jones and Waggoner that they would be led to that truth like the truth for Jesus Christ so it's she's doing a balancing act I think what she balancing she's not really chopping down the leaders the men that are saying we've got the truth we don't be anymore okay see she's not cutting them down they say you what well she's she says they're led of God but they're not inspired so child involved but listen to them use discernment basically study yourself out listen to them well if you want but you still have to consider the advancement and that's the issue to me is Jones and Waggoner they're they're not wanting to receive the new light and joy so the leadership per say to these people don't study these truths just listen to us because we're God's appointed leaders and she says don't dare do that you need to go and study for yourself not by yourself you need to study what's what this new advance and light is independent of what the leadership returning you to do preventive knew not to study you'll require to study these things by yourself for yourself Kathir night but I don't know what you say I don't know if the context of the brother is if he's referring to the specific leaders of that time or the pioneers I think it's the leaders of that time so it does sound like she's saying I was not ready one thing that's really jumping out to me is this sentence in this paragraph or the read it starts with it's the one that you have italic starts with if God has anything for me it says if God has given evidence from his word to this or that brother that a certain thing is true he will give it to me I can find that evidence if I search the scripture with constant prayer that happened to me during them joelle incessant is you over Rome and Islam I heard the leading brothers in this message saying at once it was Islam and then it came about that now it's Rome and I searched and I found him prophecy Kings reading chapter Todd Manasseh she talks all about Burlington quote to the well too few chapters later same book I'm reading she talks all about Rome and in quotes definite so am i studying I knew then who had the truth but Nathan are you reading this passage thank you what's everybody saying I think you think different things who are you great Nick I think she's kind of saying don't look to the past as a reason asset you have confidence somebody in the future say don't look don't look into the past for having confidence in somebody for a present situation ago so I guess somebody had light in the past don't don't let that guide your because the person in the present says my authority is based upon the past I don't know this is if they say that maybe but if a person if another person a third party you will believes that or it goes with that flow and they're wrong the cell is inducing it to think that holiday yeah somebody can have it their influence influence passed over them that's why she's giving this this advice so I'm saying Here I am God led this church in the past and I'm one of the leaders in the church therefore my position which is the same position that we've had for decades must be the correct position today and someone's asking you're asking why can't you just believe me because whereas their dancing amen so she say you aren't about to take that position because what is this advancing lie in this context this historical context he's not just some abstract concept of advanced enjoy since the 1888 Macy and I'm standing up and saying 1888 method use wrong by the way because it's not in agreement with the established truths and there you are you've got to decide what to do well that's what I'm saying it can't be that because in the past you agreed with the person that thinks that have like thank you it there you're gonna agree with him you have to be in a situation that you're in right now if the situation came up right now where it like say like in our current situation you brother Jeff came in a disagreement what are you gonna do you can't you know you can't have confidence in one of the other you have to look into the subject so you think that's what she's saying but I don't think that's what you say then you said you agree with what I'm saying I think you say you have confidence in Radner and Joanie's the advancing life the advancing life is not something satirical thing that someone and the dream or a million is they're doing sermon after sermon they have a message and she's saying that's the advancing light you have to go to that and the leadership is saying that is not like that is darkness that they're handing us into and you should not be studying that stuff don't go to their meetings they won't even host the meetings so Ellen White in the two men have to and she does this because of the authority that she has you can eat chicken something buying herself and the others to leave different places she said so we feel like coming to your church next Sabbath he's that okay and they say this is Ellen White we can't say no so people can't refuse her but then are getting invited then inviting themselves they're on a mission but that's all I understand well that was bouncing like issue eight that's what Ellen White has taken her own counsel none chiral counsel she you know actually have two positions she chose for herself and now she's sent meaning to shoes for yourself and yep runagate I think the distinction here and she says it twice okay the first sentence she says do not trust to the wisdom of any man or to the investigations of any man when when somebody suggests something to me I have to have hopefully I have a certain amount of discernment and a certain amount of spiritual direction so if somebody came up to me and said that I really need to study Sunday because sunday is the correct day for worship unless the Lord really impressive me in that direction I'm just gonna ignore what they say but if somebody else comes up to me and tells me something like trumpets last President of the United States again with a little bit of spiritual guidance I'm gonna start looking into that but here just seems like she's pointing at the man aspect not not the Holy Spirit working through them but mainly the man aspect of things I'm ready to test I think you for in the context of 1888 we kind of need to read it with a bit of different glasses on because she can't come out these two for just railing straight because she can't come out and say what you means you can't come out and speak against the leaders she's not speaking that strongly everything is coated just try not to split the church so she isn't going to come out and say Wagner and Jones are right the restaurant it's coated it so there's a very slight look at it just consider it tell us what the CODIS language that it plainly not the CODIS way Jerry you're right you could have speaking kogi language to me from atone the mess each down or the issues down because she doesn't want she's got organization to deal with he doesn't want to fragment the church so that acai and that's the bad thing because Paul does that isn't he particularly horrid you know that place is out of control he doesn't go around beating people up the first calls them states and and in the next breath he says you're like him diverted so here so assuming that you're correct that she's telling ever what is what she's saying if you were to put that aside what you can see two camps she's saying the leaders aren't inspired so what she's saying is that that don't assume they're correct they're holding two truths that they're not advancing the light there is advanced light look at it study it she's already given it in these paragraphs she's already given it a commendation where where she says about the advance and my truth is advancing okay that's we must walk in the increase in height that's why they're enjoyed you say so when she says or this question-and-answer work with her when they her in this brother did you something about the leadership of the church they've been late they've got these truths but they're not prophets that we should politely follow and we're supposed to study for ourselves we're supposed to go to the source ourselves and the source is Wagner and Jones that's the source I think is going to give the parable or the story of the Samaritan woman so Christ in this context would be Wagner and Jones and obviously their comments on the Bible and how they're interpreting the Bible and they saying the Bible says this and you look at that you say here that's what exactly what that's exactly correct what they're saying we worked it out ourselves we didn't have to take the testimony of the Samaritan woman someone else's testimony if both the leaders reading this I know exactly what she was doing that I was brother toy list he's totally I agree with us the same I think you know it's the cryptic message and and she's putting it down but she really means Jones and Waggoner alright but and you guys are you know you're stuck in the rut of following people who saying you know there's no new truth you know cuz the whole thing is kind of couched in this advancing light thing that we saw in the previous paragraph yeah the previous paragraph where she says we must walk in the increasingly sorry the truth is an advancing truth when we must walk in increasing light so if someone's telling you someone's the leadership are telling you we don't have any new truth there's no advancing to this we just got it but Jones why I'm here saying we have to be truth in their correct and you have to trust them since all of it yes I agree like this the first part graph says the first part of that we were the first sentence she points out how important it is for us to be converted she's giving us she's blatantly responsibility on the individual to be connected with Christ and being connected with her she seems who will receive it I thought that you need to make a distinction between the voice of God and the voice of one main point that I will just pick up besides all those bits and pieces that we spoke off the context that day's pay plus there's people who speak for themselves the wisdom of men and they speak they speak for God the advancing truth as the leaders and Wagner and Jones besides all of that it's to say that these leading men the servants if you like that even though they had these truths and they would leave and they develop them that it's not the definition of inspiration paragraph four do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God and she says no they're not inspired even though they were led of God and it's that point that we want to pull out the subject is what is a prophet so these people are led by god they're God's messengers and often we talk about a prophet being the messenger of God so their prophets on that scale but they're not inspired in the fullest sense of the word they're only led by God and if they're led by God you have to be careful what they're saying because you just can't take it as the Word of God for the Tyler she qualifies that in the next by saying they're given work to do by God and if they're not fully consecrated to God at all times they may leave some air into them you know whatever it may be so do one thing don't where they are fully consecrated they're obviously still not fully inspired but you have their prep yeah you know they're implicitly correct you know just you know because they're just kind of vomiting what I was a little more gave them without mixing self-injure and appalling beasts because they're not inspired in the fullest sense of the word it's hard to know if their definition if their explanation of that Bible passage is correct or not correct because if it if you if you need this was a prophet you wouldn't you would argue if Ellen White said don't build it over here build it over there or do something you just do it you don't question that you don't say well let's get a surveyor in to double-check you or something but a personal experience you know a builder or someone your Turki will will take your advice but you wouldn't necessarily you'd hear it but you wouldn't necessarily follow it so you can follow him blindly if someone's inspired and you can't if they're not you still have to study even if there wasn't any indication that they were right or wrong so to me this passage is showing us that God leads his people but they don't have to be prophets in the fully sense of the word and the phrase that's been used in the earlier passage is special illumination that's one thing we picked up the other thing is that I think he's here I'm not sure if everybody still agrees on this is that there are two groups one group speaks for God and one group doesn't speak for God this is not to say that we shouldn't still study to find out what's going on we should but if there's these two groups and the ones that don't speak for God even though they're leaders even though they may have been led it doesn't help in that current situation they're still opposing God and another thing that's going on is although you can't see it directly here if you want to use the concept of coded messages is that these people are telling the congregation's not to study the advancing light they're actually proactively fighting against the proactive light just as we read in the Advent movement Illustrated they say we have the light we have the truth and so you can see that whole scenario replaying itself in this dynamic here that they're preventing the people from studying and that's why she's making these points because this person says why do we have to study dated all the study for us we'll just do what they tell us to do she says no you can't do that you have to study for yourself and the studying is I'm suggesting go to Wagner and Joan's meetings their sermons read them hear what they're saying because that's advancing light and you'll see that it's it is the truth Bob if we bring this to our day I'm from the standpoint of what's ahead of us in the future how are we supposed to stand and have our faith so firm if we're just trusting other people who are sharing present truth with us if we're not studying for ourselves to confirm it and have that experience because if you don't have that experience then you're certainly going to be someone who when the heat turns up is going to vacillate and step back because you don't have the experience because you don't know for sure anyone who's listened to any of my presentations I've done in the past know that I've pushed this concept many many times that each of us is required to find some gem for ourselves however small that is however weak or frail we might be each of us can find some gem that we discovered even if it's a small one and it's based upon those experiences that we can have we're required to have that will answer to the point that you're making I believe for sure let's pray Heavenly Father we want to ask and pray Lord that you would give us discernment as we see the shaking the warfare all around us in this movement between us and the church help us to be able to discern who speaks for you and who doesn't Lord there are many voices telling us to go ahead in one direction or another to not study this but to study something else it's only as we understand how you are speaking to us individually and as a movement that we can decide who speaks for you and who doesn't we asked Lord as we continue to go through this week as we enter soon into preparation day that you would guide us and direct us that we might prepare our hearts minds and bodies for this coming Sabbath bless us father we pray in Jesus his name I mean