(09-19-18) Morning - Isaiah 55 and 46 - (0T9StV-bnUU)




Publish Date: 9/20/2018
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I mean gc3 43 paragraph three first two paragraphs of this chapter have been dealing with the concept of line upon line history repeating we've been spoken about the servants that God has raised up to do the work in each of those generations each in each of those reform lines we've seen that it was his will that these truths are given through human agents and it's a truth that's clearly taught in the scriptures above all the other truths that there are we've seen that we are then required to become those very servants ourselves once we understand that truth and as per testimonies the church volume nine around page 28 when considering that that imagery of the map you end up getting many many lights across the world and each of those lights reflect the glory of God those servants that were raised up in those generations last sentence 343 paragraph 2 men do not fully understand what God would accomplish by the work which he gives them to do they do not comprehend in all its bearings the message which they utter in his name so that message which they utter is the would call it the everlasting gospel to work of carrying forward the work of salvation which is the first sentence and they don't seem to understand in its breadth the breadth of the work that they have to do an argument that we have is that as we consider line upon line effective very vision in our generation we're required to understand the message in all of its bearings in its breath people often ask just if you take this imagery here and I'll change that symbol of harvest she the line of the priests to binding-off we're okay with that and if we took this and brought it up to this line which is line of 144,000 we'd see that there's a binding off here we'd also see that there's another binding off here and a third one here and then a final one here so people ask why this only binding off what did they all mean and if we were to wrongly exclude these two lines they're not actually labeled I'm just borrowing this board work it's not mine this is the line of the Levites and we'll call this the nether names usually in sanctuary language people ask the question this the priests are the 144,000 why don't they go through these two binding offs if they're the same group of people and I'm arguing that it's not just those it's not just that simple they actually go through these three experience for experiences sorry it's not just this one and two they go through this whole experience of being progressively bound and if we were to stop line there which we have which is fine but we know that during the thousand years I won't call it the millennium because we're spoken about the millennium doctrine of Catholicism previously so the thousand years in heaven we know that Satan is bound and I'm arguing even though don't fully understand the intricacies of that there's a final work of binding off for God's people to be done there as well but I want to suggest this the reason or the necessity of having this work of progressively binding this class of people off who are going to come to this stage is connected to this concept here of the last half of the sentence they do not comprehend in all its bearings the message which they utter in his name that we're uh Turing a message in God's name presume we all believe that third angels message and to whatever degree you understand it I think all of us have an awareness and I say us I think the whole world does that something is going wrong in a serious fashion now because the truth we understand we see this in a more focused fashion if you go if you're watching the news which we all should be about US politics today and what's going on people aren't sure about where things are headed in which direction what's going to happen about the midterm elections and if you don't know what that means maybe because you're a foreign national you should know what that means it's going to affect all of us but us who know so much about what's going on the 45th president the fourth president depending on how you want to conceptualize what's going on we still recognize that we have no idea what this looks like at the moment when I say we we as a movement have not openly discussed what what raffia looks like all we know is it's 217 BC it's some verses in Daniel 11 and it's planning to do with the king of North King of the South and it's about it there's not much more that we seem to have and yet we talk that we're rapidly headed there and now people are time setting to get to that event and if you're aware of any of those time setting moves that are happening you'll notice that they not five six years away they're very very close there are few numbers that people are coming up with that are within the next but that we're in that are it within months if I can put it that way there's a little growing awareness that this event here loud cry and those of you have been in brothels studies you know he's discussing about the PBM and the PBM has been taken back to 2014 but I still think you can use the argument to use that term to describe this way mark here to loud cry if you think about the PBM being a progressive idea progressive message so we still need to get to a place where we have some kind of concept from what rap your is and we haven't yet done that I think we're in a time period when that's happening don't even say it's about to happen I think we've already begun that work even though we may not be aware of it we just need to pulling all of those loose ends and present it in there concise fashion if I can put it that way concise often means more than not just like one presentation this message you know that the reason I'm saying that is we're so close to raffia if it's not very far away I suspect we even if we may know what's going to happen here we're still going to be pretty clueless about what the Sunday is going to look something loads going to look like in detail so we're still falling foul of understanding the message that we're supposed to bear or give in all of its bearings in its with all of the implications and the aspects of that so I'm suggesting the reason why this this model has been developed with these progressive binding offs is to accomplish this work where you may or may not have thought about close of probation I think we if we accept what's on that board and we accept the truthfulness of that we're going to hit raffia which it which we understand these are close of probation whatever that actually means without understanding our message in all of its bearings to me it's a given now I don't know what people think if they're expecting that within the next short period of time which we're all something you going to get up to speed and understand everything called about our message I just don't think human beings operate that way so I've come to the position that I don't think we will and this story about priestly work so nursing is not just a story about three groups of people it's about 144,000 and it's an explanation of essentially what the former rain looks like we have the information about what the latter rain looks like Helen white talks about it to some degree but this former rain is just the black hole really and all she's going to call it what terms does she used for the lat former rain coming say something - I can't hear you sorry impression I think the recession is the latter rain rate yet okay so yeah yeah but in terms of my experience sorry Emery the one that comes to my mind is perfecting righteousness in the fear of the Lord which to me sounds like stop doing sin reforms if we would like and it's that concept that drives the medical missionary work especially in independent stroke conservative circles in our church I think that that's what's driving this movement I'm not saying it's even incorrect so you say correctly to a large degree the reason why we're hooked on to reforms is because and not only reforms if you want if you want to draw in the 1888 message as well it's all about the form of rain that we need to get our lives in order to perfect righteousness to become righteous before the latter rain she has some strong statements I hopefully we've come across them are aware of them if we haven't read them that by time you get to the latter rain it's all too late you can't expect the latter rain to do what the former rain did and if you're not familiar with those statements a simple story that we're all familiar with is found in the book of Acts chapters one two and three there you see when the latter rain is being poured out at Pentecost that's the latter rain that the purpose of that rain is just without air you to stand for when the harder ring know that it's the harder rain Pentecost is the hard rain what work preaching preaching preaching so I wanna say public evangelism so the purpose of the latter rain is public evangelism and you see before they do that they need 10 days of preparation which becomes a symbol and not only you had the 10 days of preparation you also have the 40 days of preparation from the resurrection to when Christ ascends that's 40 days and there's another 10 days both symbols of a testing or a preparatory work which we would mark as the former rain the former rain begins on the 16th day of the first month when Jesus breathes upon his disciples and that prepares them for the latter rain so you can't be squabbling and fighting and trying to make things right in your own personal life or with your brethren during the latter rain that's the kind of concept that Ellen White has I think it's correct but we're beginning to see it's more than that and that's the conflict if you if you want to see it that way that we have with the church what we're saying is this movement has been raised up to explain the form of rain not the latter rain that rain is pretty well established I'll take that and bring it to this board because I just want to draw that in a slightly different way now I want to make a different point I don't know grant in a different way if that's correct and I think that it is 1844 begins the form of rain and the latter rain a so the former rain ends when this is this is Alvin why this is Alan White's perspective 1988 Sunday law okay first station to do this okay this relates up what do you mean by Ellen White's perspective is she writes for us was the question where does a former a name it's test you brought me okay I'll go with the Sunday law great and when the latter rain begins yes you not overlapping no I'm just you know cuz she said 1888 was the beginning of the latter rain so because it's a message right these are both messages I want to make an observation about 1888 in a second okay you'll find this this model about in the great controversy you can't find 1888 in the great controversy it's not there and neither is it there in early writings it wouldn't be in early writing because early I've already explained the early writings is a preparatory book for that yvaine so you wouldn't certainly find it there but you don't find it in the last edition of the great controversy too we could argue it wasn't designed the book wasn't designed for that purpose but I'm arguing that the great controversy was designed as much for us as it was for the world so I'm gonna put the latter rain here and we'll put close of probation where we haven't put the harvest there I'll put it there second Advent so if we were to take that line this movement I'm arguing has been raised not to explain this from the Sunday law onward because other than white gives us all of that information we haven't had to dig that out and I suspect there are well-versed brethren in the conference structure who who may well know this better than we do that they could potentially teach us some things about the history of the Sunday Lord to the second Advent because I might talks a lot about it and many of us haven't studied these passages extensively maybe some of us the new Christians you've got theologians pastors elders just laypeople who have been around for a long time and have looked at these stories in some depth the mass of misconception I think our work has been to focus on the former rain and we've done two things first of all if this was 1798 we've truncated the former rain that's one of the things that we've done we've gone to verse forty Daniel 11 and we have generated observed seen that there's a secondary time at the end that's brought to view there and that's 1989 and then we've seen 9/11 and all we were really required to do in our movement the primary things we're required to do is to generate create these two-way marks and we've struggled with those quite a lot I still don't think we've fully resolved 9/11 you can see that by the arguments that we have people are still not sure about the work of the Angels and how they operate what 9/11 is and what it is not and then from 9/11 it's on that board you'll see there what we've done is we've truncated the former rain to this experience that goes from 1989 to the second advent which is the final generation if we can express it that way or we on the ball it's called 144,000 so our focus has been on this history here the work to prepare you for the former rain and as I say all of this is pretty standard Adventist teaching because we've approached these things in a in a different way often we have had some misconceptions about what to do what to do with the latter how it operates how it works in connection with the plagues which we call the binding off of the harvest now and one of those troublesome areas is 1888 because we're going to argue that the latter rain comes before the Sunday law based upon the 1888 history and other why it's going to say the latter rain comes after the Sunday law in another context so we haven't really got our minds around I'll draw that in a simpler fashion the Sunday law which I'm saying is the test the test and Ellen White in one place is gonna say here's the latter rain and in her major work to her primary works she's going to say the latter rain is here so I don't think we've really got to grips about how we reconcile these two concepts you've got Latta rains in different places she says it's before is that from pretty gd8 yes it's a pretty obscure reference not essentially you can understand you can tease it out in other places but you have to really tease it out if you're gonna look in other places so pretty obscure I think it's a underside of time to review and Herald article that she says this is the beginning of essentially the loud cry isn't that all couched in the fact though that there was supposed to be a Sunday long right there with the Blair girl yeah but we can actually start after some gala so she's written this post 1888 when she makes that statement there was no Sunday law so we're inferring then that when the latter rain comes here we're going to have the same dynamic this is not in some shape or form wouldn't really be a real Sunday law that something it would happen afterwards I still think you can't use that argument because yet her argument is it's not based upon the date 1888 she says we know that this angel has come down bringing the last rain with it or the loud cry because the test is ahead of us so she acknowledges the test is before us not in the past she's written it post 1888 so she's setting up this latter rain here I think her language explains what she means and we've missed a trick or two on on that so I acknowledge that there's this dynamic here but what I'm suggesting is that the history from 1989 to the Sunday law particularly this part 9/11 to the Sunday long she's expanded here you can see this what we're supposed to be doing is explaining to God's church what the former rain looks like and one of the major things that we've seen it's more than just the reform message it's more than just a medical missionary work it's more than getting your life in order your personal life I'm not saying we shouldn't be doing that with r8 whether it's educational reform dress reform health reform or country living living reform wherever it is it's more than just that and it's not that easy to see until you start developing these lines we I believe are not going to understand our message message in all its bearings by the time we hit this way mark maybe we could have maybe we would never destined to but in agreement with this passage it says each has this part I've gone up two or three sentences each has its part to act to each is granty the measure of light adapted to the necessities of his time and sufficient to enable him to perform the work which God has given him to do so I'm arguing that in this history here we have enough light to give us the experience to bring us to this close of probation which begs the statement was a question a statement that from September 2018 so this event here we need a bit more light because we still don't understand the message that's adapted to the necessities of our time there's no point in sane talking about raffia when we don't even have any idea what it's about collectively we need to come to a common position on that so we still haven't dealt with our own history but once we do I'm arguing that they still not think a lot of things we won't understand and that's what this progressive binding or progressive conclusion is talking about so by the time we get to here we'll get to we'll have got to a place where we do understand the message in all of its bearings as best as a human being can do the reason why I said that is because in the next paragraph she's going to quote some Bible passages from job and Isaiah and the inference she's going to make here because she's set up her premise and then she's going to give the conclusion or the proof of her premise who can see it that way paragraph two is the premise paragraph three is the proof that what she's saying is true and what is paragraph three stated and if we've it's anybody has anybody read that what what see yeah what is what is paragraph three saying sister Alyssa really sure it's not what it paraphrased it as it's written or just to have the thoughts of God which I understand to have Christ's righteousness the nature sure that had the mind of God you say and what what what is what is it about the mind of God that's the paragraph three you saying he very well you have to let go you think that's what those verses are saying we have to let go you have to get your life in order and it'll all be okay sister Rachel look they know the mind of Thoreau read the verse which doesn't tell us who it means who can know the mind of you but what does that mean that we don't know all these thoughts is the start for deeper them don't ya that's what you were saying me don't know the mind I thought it starts a very deep fry the grave what those passes you say mr. Brawley I think he's asking like when your dad asks your question get up to speed that's a nice think you think so drug the nice aces get up to speed that's gonna test me Robert Daniel paragraph three let's the light up I think it's a that people they don't know we got that wall okay you saying something is just a right you they don't know they don't understand

you the damn towel that we don't

know brother Larry yeah that will we will never obtain okay that's different - we don't know much longer you're saying we can't know completely not you say never know never know until even hope we never yeah cause all this is from Victor angry ordinary we speak eerily quiet I agree with brother Larry what do you agree on that it's saying that we can't obtain we can't fully understand so the premise says we do not fully understand what God would accomplish by the work he gives them to do like it may do not comprehend you know experience and message which say heaving is night then she says let me prove it to you it's gonna crack to Bible passage and I think it's are you you can't no you can't know the message which they give in his name and all of it feeling I think that's the premise that she keep making and I'm arguing otherwise okay you say another word I'm just gonna say she the verses make it sound like you can't no but she said you know some amount that you have to know something or else you couldn't even give the message you may just not know all of it which is also going to say from age to age that kept them folded and we happen to be at the end of the ages in theory but I know there's in progressiveness their lines but my point is is that you have to know something you have to have there's partial knowledge at least I admit sight says you can see that in the passages we read they have to each is granty the measure of light adapted to the necessities of his time but they don't understand the message in all of its bearings so we'll read the passages can't allow by searching find out God can self find out the almighty unto perfection my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are my ways so neither are your ways my ways saith the Lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my way my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts I am God and there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times of things that are not yet done so it's a three interesting passages Joby Levin Isaiah 55 and then Isaiah 46 tically the last one as they're fully stakes passage that we use all the time I am God there's none like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times of things that are not yet done so that's picking up what brother Tyler mentioned everybody familiar with this passage I am God and there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done yeah when's this written the story of Isaiah con here you sorry it up when they're about to have these entering into public with the false priests and they're about to put their offerings out thinking about time frame thirty James Rosen for the destruction of Samaria I mean maybe know the year right before ago right before the district so historically this is just before the destruction of Samaria we like that out on the line this is before the Sumerian captivity the Assyrian captivity I'll call it and before the Babylonian captives before anything ever happens brother thank you so you can now buy certain time out god and then it says kind of where is God I am God and there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and they understand that God that illustrate the end from the beginning after this I think you do because that's why we so somehow searching the scriptures we find out God didn't we if you think that first of all um depending on how you look at this it appears that in one way we can say you know God you know we're not ever going to understand God's thoughts completely at one level but but because of the of the passages themselves and and what we've been reading in great controversy in this previous two paragraphs it seems to me that God is actually challenging us we're being challenged even though we may not know everything but we're going to be we're gonna be challenged to to get it right because if you look at all the other previous generations you know we can see clearly that in some measure because but they didn't understand what's going on they failed and yet we know here at the end of time because of what's written by God that there is giving a final generation that is going to be victorious chapter 46 is sandwiched between chapter 45 and chapter 47 pretty straightforward sister test it says declaring the end from the beginning from ancient times of things that are not yet done what is being declared here what is Isaiah God threw away what is he actually clearly to them the future ways that future giveaways the future that's being claimed destruction of tradition destruction of Jerusalem the deliverance but it's a complete 45 in all these seven I think it's right good why they're right they do 45 or 45 dealing with Cyrus deliverance so that's deliverance from captive I fully 747s dealing with the destruction of Babylon which is obviously the deliverance which is you know perspective okay yeah yeah so 40 60 sandwich between those two chapters said that the the end all the things he's talking about is the destruction of Babylon and hasn't even occurred yet and chapter 46 diversities before hands baekje dealing with idolatry so when you see the dynamics of what's being brought up obviously this is pre captivity so the passage contextually isn't isn't actually mentioning the captivity itself but it's going to set up why the captivity is going to happen because of this idolatry and then it talks about the destruction of Babylon and all of these things have already been declared somewhere somehow through in Isaiah 2 easy places that they've been the played two easy places brother gray at one place that it's being declared within our Zoya or now because it wouldn't be declaring that at the beginning it was declared somewhere in the beginning Leviticus Leviticus the very first 26 it would be clear day from experiment and heat like these are sounds for the grandeur that declare from the beginning that do this 26 I can't hear you sorry very well I don't know where okay do you got No so Leviticus 26 is one good place sister ELISA easy qie is after him the author Isaiah in fact most of stuff's already happened by time you get to Ezekiel July Kim's happened Kim's happened so it's way after sister taste where would these things be created before the beginning scenario do you mean that you're talking about the destruction of Babylon just generally we've seen in leviticus 20:6 all of these things have already been declared we mention another book that's the only reason I'm I'm just trying to just refresh you to remember what other book we mention mentioned you two just told you that's already Deuteronomy so if Deuteronomy in Leviticus both Moses he's declared the end what's going to happen right from the very beginning so he's already explained that to us when we talk about end from the beginning we we tend to put kind of a spin on it I'm gonna make that sound sort of silly but we but we use these verses in a slightly in a subtly different way and I think that they're given not wrongly because you can't make the argument about the way we do end from the beginning it looks like the same thing but really what's being portrayed here is that God's going to accurately tell you what's going to happen in the past and he did that from the beginning the only one God that can do that that's what the definition of God is someone who can actually tell you what the future is and then what we do not just based on this passage though you can read it into these words is that the end looks exactly the same as the beginning so we add we add that a little bit to really make or to reinforce our point so do we understand that we believe that we teach that so it says I am God and there is none like me who's like God who's declaring the end from the beginning it's not it's not talking about people talking about idols there's no Idol that's like me there's no other God that's like me but then in the context of isaiah 46 it's not necessarily talking about an individual because isaiah 46 in a way actually goes contrary to what she the point she's trying to make because he's saying i have told you before him that these things are gonna happen so you do know there's something you don't have not what you actually do have knowledge individual human beings but this is Idol versus God that's being hot so you remember I I didn't mention from verse one I don't know did the exact verse but we're gonna say to verse 7 this is about it's all about idolatry and this is not Babylonian idolatry this is idolatry what's happening in the church and that's the point he's making it's Isaiah it's the comparison of which God do you serve the God that can predict and which is already done or the God that you have to carry around on your shoulders so you can see straight away that it says cants Dow inferior talking about can you search out God human being and she's in has been put there is not a god like me declaring the end from the beginning and he's kind of like tags that on to human beings don't think like God so she can see how she twists this verse for her own use but the standard line versus it's got it's nothing to do with us it's we are going to stand back and say well which God are we gonna choose we become the ass and you've got these two gods in front of you so who were those two gods could say Satan Jehovah but as in Revelation 12 the dragon in his primary sin see Satan but in a secondary senses she says pagan Rome who is this Idol that's been spoken of if we're gonna if we're going to make some kind of application for ourselves what what is this idea this idolatry that we have here at the end of the world what is the idolatry it's not cars and houses and stuff is it it's not money right that we know things so it's the the things that we understand things that we believe we okay with doctrines the theology that we have so you've got these two types of theology these two types of methodology you can either go to an idolatrous methodology don't insult people or methodology that God uses or God has and the one that he uses is shows you the end from the beginning as I say we've we've put an emphasis on that which isn't necessarily here I think just the simple reading would say I told you in Leviticus what's going to happen and it's going to happen but can your idols say what's going to happen because what are those idols actually saying all things continue no they are saying something I think they are saying they're saying all things continue peace and safety they keep the peace and safety message they do speak you know however they you know work you cut their livers open then you have a little fish around and they say yet it's all going to be okay so we're going to be good so they do actually communicate with you and the way you know which is the true God is the one that gives you the accurate information problem is by the time the accurate information comes it's too late I've done the Babylonians come it's already done and dusted and that's what's the problem it means Isaiah 46 as brother James in Samaria hasn't happened yet so it still hit-and-miss which God is the correct God because everyone saying we can't be destroyed why can't we be destroyed sorry the temple of the Lord we read that temple of the Lord we can't be destroyed if we were destroyed who would they be on earth God is dependent upon us he can't do this work without us so hopefully if we're okay here we can see that she's made an application to the verse it's sort of now he's talking about God and us in the original context it's two ideologies one a peace and safety which isn't predicting future events and another one that is because God says I've already warned you that you're about to be destroyed and you know we went back to Leviticus and Deuteronomy but they're not the only people that we can go to which was the other prophet that we spoke of that lined up with isaiah hosea so we'll hosea is also the prophet that's doing the same thing got nothing good to say so there are other you go to Psalms and you could you know tease out some other other things but that's what the discussion is which ideology which methodology which doctrines do you believe ones that are called idols and ones that are God so the way we approach that is there yep we can tick that box isaiah 46:9 and 10 we have that same mind of God agree with that so we know you know one of the bearings that we are we haven't fallen foul of that can you say the same for the Millerites you can't can you say the same for the disciples they didn't know the end from the beginning they hadn't picked up all of that they've got severe misunderstandings in their message as do the Miller eyes I'm suggesting we don't I'm system we don't have those huge mistakes while my primary evidence is this line not the details of the line but we're just in a generic sense we have gone and created these two-way marks and what they've done is they've allowed us to investigate the history of the former rain and what's going to happen in that former rain which is our job function so the one before my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are my ways - neither are your ways my ways saith the lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts so who's he speaking to now so Isaiah 55 verses 8 & 9 like I think up verse one ho everyone that thirsty is come you to the waters he that has no money come ye buy and eat yay come buy wine and milk without money and without price wherefore do you spend money for that which is not bread ok so who's he addressing is he talking to idols talking to men human beings when it says wherefore do you spend money for that which is not bread and your labor for that which satisfies not what they buying piece of safety okay yeah I would suggest urban idols is they're not spending their money on useful things they're spending it on idols which contextually your application wise would be decide Dollar Tree so who's he's talking to when he says these people incline your ear and come near here and your soul shall live so verse three who's he speaking to what's their condition I mean they're dead since they're going to hear they're going to come alive so they're wasting their money they're thirsty they're dead behold I have given him for a witness to the people a leader and commander to the people behold thou shalt call a nation that they'll know it's not and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God and for the Holy One of Israel for he hath glorified thee so so she's going to set up verse five which is a positive message it's talking about their actual job function that all these people are supposed to come to them verse six seek ye the Lord while ye while he may be found call ye upon him while he is near so then how we read verse six there's still tight time to prepare to avert danger let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts and let him return unto the Lord and He will have mercy upon him and to your God for he will abundantly pardon verse seven he saying what brother Tyler not the b-cup they just thought they can rule because I feel the Lord saying that you both hope we're not on the same we're up the same wavelength we're not going the same way then you need to get on my path okay so we're not on the same wavelength on two different paths and you need to jump ship you need to move directionally on to my path 26 with the Lord says when you make the special prayer that you have to say you've walked contrary to God and God knows what country to you and then you need to reconcile your paths so you've got two people who were estranged from verse 1 all the way through they stuck this promise in verse 5 and then verse 8 for my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are your ways my ways saith the lord for as the heaven heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts hoody speaking to you speak to you by the Bob to those who were who are being unrighteous he's speaking to the person in verse 7 speaking to you yeah okay at one point in my life yeah today I think so no Ravi Daniel as the past me speaking to you you know so you're wakey your ways are not his ways hope you're not actually oh you can set you up to teach us and you're saying your teaching is not what God wants us to hear I don't know what don't you know I don't know what Isaiah means which make now you know which versa is it is it that you think you doubt that will walk good advice will speak again so for me it means like there's some people that are a righteousness unrighteous yeah all right and they need to come to do ways of the Lord okay so in a cute we don't know so I don't know if that's what it means but it's saying that friend that unrighteous no people they don't have the thoughts of God yeah and they need to have the same kind of price they don't have to consume like this yeah and go to the high Airways of the Lord so I'm not gonna say the highways I'm just gonna say his path well I'm gonna go walk what other time this is uniquely you need to go onto his part yeah so what part that you was I what but sitting in what path do you want I won and go into person or you don't there yet I think I don't know why discussing your morality so I I think I don't know I think a.m. because there is I am God there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning that's what his thoughts are yeah what your thoughts we understand the God to the stray in the hands from the beginning so so I think we are in their path okay we'll switch it away because it's it's a bit to eat the coffee so who's he's speaking to the servant the bem or the US in these verses actually took me to this group but we keep on self-identifying say probably speaking to us and the game that's what Ellen White has done here that the inference is his thoughts are higher than our thoughts his ways are not the same thoughts as we have brother James I was just going to say in verse 7 it says let him return unto the Lord and hopefully all of us sitting in this room have done them we have I'm not talking about your personal moral life I'm talking about a doctrinal level a theological level you know that's why we're here we've all assenting to think in the same way that God thinks we preach we teach that this is the taste verse 10 so I'm going to read first eight nine and then Ted for my thoughts are not your thoughts neither a your ways my ways saith the Lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts before we read teller I just wanna put one more piece in in Revelation 14 where are these angels they're in heaven they're even harder I don't get crass about the symbology because in Revelation 10 they hit earth and in 18 but these angels they're sent from heaven early writings tells you that quite clearly God sends these pease you want to say people these angels from heaven so this fact about for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways my thoughts are higher than your thoughts these sorts these ways these angels come from that same place they're not human beings they're angels with much higher thoughts verse 10 for as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven and return it's not thither but waters the earth and make it to bring forth and bud that it may give see to the sower and bread to the eater so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth it shall not return unto me void but it shall accomplish that which I please and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it I guess I say that the experience you hear it and I hear it before verse 10 that experience has to precede the round ok so verse 7 I'll skip verses 8 & 9 verse 7 that experience has to happen before you get to verse 10 so explain that a little bit more what verse 7 says return unto me because you're wicked verse 8 and 9 say that your thoughts in your wicked condition are not like my thoughts I think much higher things than you do and what's verse 10 saying so verse 10 the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven so the rain are god's thoughts and they're going to come down to earth that's the imagery of verse 10 and when it comes it produces something it's what it produces is it waters the earth and it makes the plants bud that they give seed to the sower and bread to the eater so once the plants grow they bud they produce seed and those seeds are going to have two functions one function is that they're going to be saved to replant and the other one is they're going to be turned into food and be eaten and all of that is being driven by this rain that comes from heaven and in verse 11 so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth so the rain is the word it shall not return unto me void because it's talking about this kind of water cycle that goes on in verse 10 it shall accomplish that which I please which is to produce the seed for the sower and the eater and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I saying anything more you wanna add sister Tess yeah so I don't if we like that I see some nodding then if we accept that as theologically correct because if you do it changes the way that we teach some other violent passages just make sure you agree with that what you say you have a Daniel so I was looking to that paragraph in great controversy three for three it's saying they don't understand all the other bearings of the message but it seems that we need to understand okay so the day who is it them or the US referring to in that paragraph I do not request and I don't think it goes there in love there my us he says a servant they don't understand the work which he has given them to do each has been given the measure of life it's the servants on the earth isn't it yeah it's this group that he's referring to here they don't understand everything Miller didn't understand everything John doesn't who understands everything Noah that was fast so nor understands everything but these are the people down there the ones who aren't understanding but we've gone to Isaiah 46 and this isn't talking about people it's talking about idols and these people have to choose which Idol they're going to run with 55 is talking about wicked people and these servants are not wicked people would you agree with that boo boo that sister Tess yeah she's just taking a passage out of context in my room I don't know if you wanna used strong language like that but it seems to me take out of context and just use it any which way she wants to people don't like me saying stuff like that but I don't know how else to explain it because it's that that's not what Isaiah is saying is I he's talking about wicked people and these servants are not wicked people will go to multiple probes crow seen these in these notes and you'll see that these are these are chosen people specially selected and we saw that in prayer meeting people with this special with who were already had like given more like they're not wicked people but she's using it that way the way she's developing it up because she wants to make a point and I think it's really important for us to see that prophets have the authority and not only the authority but they have or the right there quiet to get these passages and use them to make the point that they want to make and if you can see that the argument that I've been trying to make for a long while now is that we too have the authority to take 90 page 13 and say we say that means this when I don't think of them white was saying that and I explain it in a different way when we used the model of the Magi when we use the model of the Magi that was one way of explaining it but in other ways we get passages when we say we want to say that this passage means this and people say and who gives you the authority to do that and that's what the crux of the question is it's not what we teach because that's where the argument is shifted to like do you folks teach error and you know we say well we're not sure because we don't know how to interpret these verses properly or how what they actually mean to me that's not the argument the argument is no truth is more clearly taught in the Bible that God directs servants here on earth it's about the selected servants and what they can and cannot do I think we haven't appreciated that to degree that we should have that we can go in and take Bible passages and we can just make them say essentially what we want and I don't mean that in a city where I know people will manipulate that and they're free to do that but in an intelligent way that we say these passages mean this in a framework at the end of the world and they can be different to the original setting and we have the authority to do that based upon Isaiah 28 verse 7 for the theodor well this is the way it's always been if you look at Paul in the book of Hebrews chapter 1 all the verses he uses are out of context Hebrews chapter 1 favorites at what but that's Paul are you are you in the level of Paul yes because if we're speaking God's Word it has to do with the lines and there's a system of study that God has laid out in his work if we follow that system of study we then have the authority to do it that's what you're showing right okay okay but the problem is we get tied up in the system and we can argue on the basis of the system if you are you using the right system or am i using the right system it's a parallel of the ten virgins really fulfilled to the very lecture and what does it actually look like we get bogged down in the system carry on in this context you understand what I'm saying it's not about it has nothing to do with me it has to do with God's Word and what God has been showing in his word and all these lines of prophecy throughout all history and where we are at this time so you know people always make it about well it's about that person let me stop here this is the problem that we face and I brought it up time and again and we Samuel Snowe who is John the Baptist who is Elijah and if we get bogged down is like it's an individual when I say to someone are you a prophet and people say well it's me and they cower I'm saying we have to understand this she's talking about a movement as a corporate body and it becomes tricky because as soon as you get to a corporate body because we asked ourselves the question the other day what does the movement even look like some days it looks like a couple of hundred people sometimes it does look like one individual who standing up and saying something but they're not typifying some individual back you know someone who's doing this great work or whatever does not become Paul as the individual person it's Paul becomes a symbol of the movement and Paul fighting if I can use it that way with Peter and don't mean when they have this argument about who you're going to sit with I mean about Jerusalem the Jerusalem Council where you've got this tension that people don't even understand what the message is and how it's supposed to be promulgated the Jerusalem people and Paul has a clear understanding of that this is not two people in our movement once clueless and the other is not clueless so carry on your point I don't know you you kind of made the point in that when we look at all the light that's come from God's Word in this message we can then speak with authority we can use because all this unfolding of light sheds light upon what's come before it's not it's not it doesn't contradict it even if we're taking some a statement let's say in the context of that statement it doesn't say what it says it does say it in the context of all the unfolding of life on the in the context of how God has always worked so for somebody to sort of restrict us to this idea that I have to only take a statement of Scripture in the context in which was originally intended this would undo Christianity it would undo everything that God has done on this earth even their old people led by God I know about Luther who are you that's what the crux is isn't it was who was Miller who was Paul people question who's Paul Wright what authority did he have to do that in his day we can look back and say yes well Paul was on many mother's road to Damascus we didn't meet you but how do we know he met him on the road to them Paul could just be deceived he could be some kind of it's Maggie out yeah he could have just made up this story that that happened right from the perspective of people then in that day what authority does Paul have to do that and people question his authority so it's always going to be that way we can't we can't you know you're the one that's got the authority and not this brother over there or the sister over there how can we know that you have you're the chosen one and not them but you look at that you look at that history and you look at these movements that you're talking about because we have these movements we have these lines we have how God has from age to age always has these reform movements so if there is a reform movement where is it if it isn't this movement this movement has fulfilled it and in many different ways that we can show it we can show it through chronology for one we can show it through the events that have unfolded so we have many different ways that we can show that we have this Authority and for somebody who's been in this movement and then tries to say well I believe to all those things but you guys now have gone off track they're now claiming to be an authority unto themselves apart from the movement yes it's not only that they believe the doctor that we thought yeah they believe the servants that had been raised up yeah they believing that servants even though they didn't even understand the theology mm-hmm see they actually bought into this paragraph to concept without Oh most of us who joined this movement didn't even understand what was being spoken we just had confidence in the servant that was raised up so if you if you're gonna take their position it's self-defeating it because now they want to they're gonna set themselves up as the authority in contradiction to the whole movement to how God has led and so as an individual I never can set myself up as the authority but I can within this movement speak with authority because this movement is fulfilling prophecy and we can show that in so many different ways so we we are the servants we have to be if we're giving this message and if we're not giving this message and it's and everybody just has to figure things out for themselves then there never can be a movement I don't know if I said that well would you understand what I'm saying say it a better way what is the word subliming like the Word of God is sublime anybody got any questions I will find the dictionary definition of that there's a tension between the individual and the movement which is this kind of nebulous concept this nebulous idea the gems to us that are sort of like what does it mean hi in place exalted Allah so high and holy Agnes I'm going to just use that parables a sublime the more I've looked at them the more I see that this deceptive simplicity is exactly that it's deceptive the more you fall into these parables these stories the more you see that they are just rules within wheels and what the more complex they become and I find it extremely difficult to explain them so the reason why I was trying to draw things out from mother Theodore is this I see a tension between the individual and the movement because I want to press people and I say you know what's your middle name and I want you to say Isaiah so you self-identify as Isaiah because you're going to do the work that Isaiah has to do and I think that's accurate but none of us can stand up and say God raised me up and I'm John the Baptist as a person that's not what we need to understand the whole movement is John the Baptist but you're individually we are - we speak with the authority of John the Baptist and to me that concept have been sublime the concept of being a plan and a servant at the same time all of these I don't I don't know how to explain them in plain simple language or to write a document or to you know do a study on it I can see those things but it's really hard to portray them but see everybody needs to meditate upon them and sort of get that idea for themselves the tension between the servant and the message of the servant is another problem because as soon as you start saying it's not an individual person it's not me I'm not eyes there as a person dead nothing what is it if you're gonna say the movement the movement is not individuals the movement then becomes a message which becomes the doctrine so you end up shifting away from an individual to the message and so how do you deal with that because this passage isn't talking about message is talking about people identifiable people so it really becomes problematic because no one wants to put their head above the parapet and say that's me and if you don't do that you're going to fail the test because you have to identify as a servant it becomes problematic I've seen you hang in the time of Christ they argue about where is his kingdom of heaven and what's Jesus's answer you can't see it it's within you and that just plainly isn't true Jesus says if I'm saying that's not true because the sanhedrin have got a dossier they've got a dossier because they love capturing data they have a dossier on whom on what on the kingdom of heaven they know all of these people's names they know when they were born what they're about what their ideology is the kingdom of heaven is right there to be seen because how can you be joining some esoteric concept you can't you get in baptized into the kingdom of heaven it's not the baptism of repentance has John understood that yeah that was another misconception I think that he had his game he's baptizing people into Ephesus if you want to conceptualize it that way it becomes something tangible at Pentecost what 3,000 people getting baptized into their joining the church New Testament church is right there it is the kingdom of glory feasible to see understand what crisis might the point he's making that that dispensation is about the kingdom of grace and our dispensation is about kingdom of glory at some level you know we can say the doctrines you know we're wrapped around doctrine or somebody or something like that but even if you want to make that argument all those doctrines came from individuals people a person oftentimes you know there's a leading person who thought that idea and they put it on in paper they showed someone or whatever and people just accepted it so at some level no matter which way you want to look at it there's always an individual problem the problem of the individual because the truth comes through individuals the movements made up of individuals you know unless you want to just you know you can rip everyone out and just have an idea you know but that just it's difficult yes and the primary fight is when it's that individual that had that spark of light did they become the anti-typical person that preceded them and the consensus is no mr. probably as the church how I concern conceptualize it in my mind is that work in the world ended the warp and the documents the work as they come together they have to have each other to make the profit of church and that's that's so many way because I I don't understand how the one switch can stand up on these individuals for the know that the Lord is creating that divine yes and I like that the way she said the the message can't stand upon the individuals because many of those key doctrines that we've had from those individuals they've really never really gone so the message couldn't couldn't stand upon them there's this interaction which I think he's not easy to for me I don't find it easy to put into words brother Bob I had the thought a minute ago me okay I wanted to think about this point this is the testers may she's poor verse 7 and 10 in chronological order verse 7 Denton not only did I discuss it but I won't just try and think about the meditate that put on that during the day maybe we'll pick it up in this afternoon's class maybe we won't but if you buy into that then he has implications on how we read the other Bible passages I won't discuss the ones that I'm thinking that they're in my mind but it but he does so by their 46 she's applying it in a different context I their 55 she's applying it in a different context and we haven't got time to look into Jobe 11 but catch now by searching find out God can thou find out the almighty unto perfection and I'm going to answer yes you got you got to go back into the context of how that passage was used who he's speaking to what's going on these servants us at the very end who are going to go through this history are not gonna fall foul on these three issues we will know God unto perfection and I don't want us to take that in again in the city way we're not going to attain to God we're looking to be God but the bearings that we are required to understand a comprehensive higher than the highest thought than even we can yet conceptualize is the work that we've been given to do and that's why raffia is going to happen it's not just you stay at home until the Sunday law you wake up in Turkey now we can get ready you've made some personal preparation got your life in order straightened out with your family members and your friends it's a lot the training is a lot more comprehensive and rigorous than that that's what raffia pan iam and all of these events that precede sandals are going to do and even that's not enough you have to go through the Sunday law history to really begin to understand the bearings so the message in all of its bearings and then Jacob time of trouble and I'm suggesting even though we don't discuss it you need to go through the thousand years to really understand everything in its full bearings so that the universe will be secure but the Bobby but I had Darwin's shears we talked about the Temple of the Lord and if we look at it at two different levels you know we're told our bodies are a temple for the Holy Spirit we're supposed to be temples for the indwelling of His Holy Spirit and yet collectively all of us make up stones in the temple you know that that are his people at another level and but one other thought I have is when I first started studying Bible many many years ago my first opened it up one of the verses that I did I did I have clung to for many years as isaiah 55:11 you know that it you know God's Word is not gonna return to employ can accomplish it's gonna do its work and and so I look out looking at all the promises and all the things that are written in God's Word we can know with the surety that they're gonna come to pass yeah just dealing with millerite history we've talked about this before just the fact that they failed and when we look at our reformed lines we see that there's more in our reformed lines that is millerite history is there but all the histories come together and that's why our history is going to end all things because it's not just a miller right reformed line Heavenly Father we thank you for your watch care in your goodness we ask and pray Lord that not only us but those who watch these presentations will not misconstrued the words that we've spoken or the intent of those words each of us Lord as we bow before you may we understand and contemplate our part in this great work great work that you have given your people to do here on earth may each of us desire to be a servant in your vineyard we ask and pray that you would bless us through this day bless the food that we're to eat in Jesus's name I mean