(09-19-18) Afternoon - Sinful Neglect - (82pieuvRmBw)

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Publish Date: 9/20/2018
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-19-18) Afternoon - Sinful Neglect-82pieuvRmBw
YouTube ID: 82pieuvRmBw

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amen so this morning we dealt with great controversy 343 paragraph three and what was the conclusion of this morning study what did you go away with sister Rachel from paragraph 343 hey 348 paragraph 3 that's what we looked at this morning what more conclusion did you go right oh just reading it felt right seem to be saying that we Clinton quit know the mind of God but looking at the verses we saw especially in isaiah 55:7 that we can return on to the Lord let's make his way and follow the Lord's way enjoying that weekend have the mind of Christ no God that's what I okay Broadway we ready few messages and Ella white takes them out of context and twist them around to say what she wants to say and then we're to do the same thing really James well when you first ask the question what my sister Rachel says is what I was thinking if you want a different answer I mean that a minute I just want your odds they're not I kept it to remind us that as whereas we're looking and you know in the past the profits haven't been able to see everything even the messages that they've been given they haven't come free in fullness but we live in here at the end have all of those messages come together really more together but the vibrant voices that she uses it's not what the Bible verses are saying and Isaiah 55 it definitely points us in that direction that we can know his thoughts and our ways are this way sister all the way from this morning's classes we saw that anyway had the full authority to take the scripture and put it in the context that she wanted to put it in and that if we accept our designated duties as an accept that God has raised us all to be be our prophet then we should have the same Authority and that God will honor our mr. brainy brother tiger then the question is what we get from this morning yeah we looked at three four three paragraph three even dating - paragraph - what do you go Whateley well probably same thing a lot of people are saying is that sister white seems to make this application that you can't know the ways of God though she puts it in the context that you do know a little bit of what God wants you to know if just maybe not the whole thing and then she quotes from these passages and at least two of them we saw we didn't get to the third one Joe but at least two of them show that you can know and that the one that says Lord blooms dealing with idolatry the other ones dealing with the unconverted person so they're not germane to God's people and so you can in fact know the truth and we we started dealing with the idea of application and how we make out the vision where what get 40 is and is there a system that needs to be deduced you know to make that application but we primarily focused on the authority to make that application and we've briefly talked about how a B how holy prophets can do that and and if you're not a prophet then you can't make application like that's the way that she is talking about what she is doing but she pulls these things straight out of the convent keep pulling straight out of college yeah totally we also left off with looking at verses 7 and came to see if they ours should I say sequential ready thank you we answered the question of the peril a new answer is yes what device you can doubt by searching find out God and now find out the almighty ultra perfection for the great the question was answered yes for the Larry massage but it's already been set which I agreed what I walked away with was how solemn this principle is that we can know and what a high call that is for us there's no more time to be relaxed we need to really put our heads down and move forward with the way the Lord is leading us in the second quote my thoughts are not your thoughts and the third quote so I am gone there is none like me rather Gregory who speaking other Lord so ultimately it's God but he's not really speaking who's who's actually speaking yeah he said that's why I say hurting and who's Isaiah speaking to he'd be speaking to ancient Judaism okay so speaking to god people the church so in the context of the passage it's on sorry that worked us on the right the demin and out of it who is that them on the ass well it's also him but it's him and the people he's speaking to who's the head the prophet Isaiah so which one's Isaiah I'll be the ass called them sorry yeah that's why they're I don't know well it's it's the same is their Serpent's us we must learn from them we must believe that they're sent from God God always uses them it's always his way it's easy to see that he always sends them and it's a life-and-death issue for these people to accept these people so whose Isaiah then so that's Isaiah and who's that his audience Tiffani speaking - yes that's the context of both chapter 55 in chapter 46 is that you saying yes there's two passages but in the paragraph before who's it speaking about he's speaking about servants or people who's supposed to listen to the servants sorry the previous paragraph yeah in great controversy yes these people that would say it gives them a work to do but they don't understandably think so it's being applied to the Millerites in my power this is a generic in paragraph two I usually I just wait to tell me how I can yeah easier this one or this one paragraph two it seems mean like them as well okay we say as well it seems like it so this is paragraph 2 yeah that's what speaking about speaking about these servants yeah then in paragraph three when it says my thoughts are not your thoughts and it says in it's not so easy in the next one chapter 46 because he's talking about people who were listen following idols who's that being addressed to that statement like my ways are not your ways this group of this room so my away it's it's smaller yours would be God's people here's what yo okay so I'm saying oh you'll say paragraph three is addressing this group so paragraph 2 is talking about the servants who don't know that we think and paragraph three because I say is the one who's talking to these people or trunk we say you folks don't know much and they're the ones who are supposed to be listening to Isaiah as Isaiah reads the servant of God right so you can see that she's tagged them together and he seems to me that it's actually talking about two different groups of people brother Tyler okay okay she's she uses them for the same group yes but they're technically different groups okay so she's property put them together saying I'm gonna use these verses to prove my point of paragraph two but when you actually go into the passages we look at Joe and upon Testament - I'm pretty sure job is going to give us the same answer we looked at Isaiah the Isaiah is talking about this group of people the ones were supposed to be listening to the servants and paragraph - he's definitely talking about the servants so you can see how she uses these Bible passages in a way that if we try to do that people would rebuke us and we had the lengthy discussion about the rights and wrongs of that and how that operates and how that works any comments on that so I presume everyone's okay they agree with that observation and a few of the few of you have mentioned the implications of what that means and yeah from the onions I didn't I didn't quite follow every sister Elissa can you feed that please so there are two groups that are being talked about the US that them we've been discussing are the servants the us being sent by God being taught by the servants and the different characteristics that we and she uses them interchangeably to state a particular point and the most of what parameters are trying to help us to see especially with Matthew 13 where the transition point makes that's not the right word but it's a plants and the servants are the same but from a different perspective and at a different time and after a certain work so paragraph two is talking about these servants that God sings paragraph three at least the two passages from Isaiah when you look at that they're not talking about the servant Isaiah who's the man of opportunity the person that got to the saying he's the ambassador of God speaking to a people that are in trouble no servant seeing the paragraph before not people who are in trouble they're the messages they are ambassadors of their represent God but the people in Isaiah in the next passage are not in that condition with respect to God they're in dire straits but she's applying those Bible passages to the servants but these servants are in dire straits and that there plainly is in the situation Isaiah is not in rebellion or his probably tried has said he's not on some separate paths to God he's walking with God despite what we might argue about Isaiah 6 and what that actually means though that's not always you know someone might think about Isaiah 6 sounds like Isaiah is in some kind of rebellious mood or something but people might want to bring Jonah ray I think we can get him into a mire when we started doing there but I say it was God so then I want to understand everything but he's doing what God wants him to do who said Here I am use me so Isaiah reason the person who's been addressed in these two passages but she's going to use these passages and address them to Isaiah and say this is what Isaiah's issue is his thoughts are not God's thoughts and he's in idolatry okay if we were going to really you know if we were going to do this and I said okay next week paragraph two and these people don't understand things this will misdirected give me some Bible passages to defend that because we want to write a little chapter paper on this what Bible passages will we have use because if we if we brainstorm there's almost says oh look come Isaiah 55 this people don't think like God thinks they don't have everything in the right bearings that we know the titles of the message I hopefully not just me but I say hold on but that's talking about different group of people you can't use that passage to defend the point that you're making find another one so I would have gone to one of the passages to say from the Gospels where you know they're the servants of God they sent out a mission and you know they don't understand the message in all of its bearing so they would have been I think a fruitful place to find a suitable passage to to tuck into here she uses I say every night's a reason in the even in the right context we who tried to get away trying to do that we would have got away with it that's what I wanted this to see why well I don't want us to run away with is that you know Alan Wake doesn't know what she's doing she does and me you've none of us I'd say that I st. meters under one who's bringing these thoughts out to you or suggest in them is which she makes this application is a correct application so we'd have to think about the server to his basin be you know on fire for the Lord and be really good actually doing a pretty bad shape just from these passage but she's applying them to them we have to accept that that's correctly true there's a perspective that we would normally have especially if you look at the passages that's what I wanted to pick up not to say that she's wrong because she isn't it's not to say that her applications are incorrect because they're not but they're not the original application she pulls out Bible passages because she wants to make a certain point and give you another perspective of these people and you can see that these people are into idolatry if we go with Isaiah 46 are we okay with that they're in idolatry when you say idolatry is false doctrine idolatries false doctrines so when it says that these servants they don't comprehend the message in all of its bearings why don't they what's their problem they're into there into idolatry and those servants are us so we're all into idolatry and idolatry is false doctrines they're all holding on to false doctrines false ideas and that's what she's accusing you and me off we're Idol worshipers and you know we might kind of admit to that but we might not want to especially when we talk to people we say we're not I don't you know idol worship is we have come out of idolatry for Ephesus we can put a really rosy picture on but you can put an equally ugly picture on our situation and this is nothing to do with morality I'm talking about anybody's moral situation what you eat drink how you conduct your private life this is just on doctrine we're in bad shape and that's why we can't understand the message dealing with its bearings someone had their hand up so we had to handle yeah following me watch thank you know you excitement mine but you followed up because I was not finding the right words searching for the way which is the Nate's to the doctrines put out there and it's just the reforms health reform praise what you just said is putting the words it wasn't there before I'm not knocking me forward no college reforms but I think we we can tend to focus too much upon those reforms and use use them as an excuse for misunderstanding bad behavior lack of blessings and would use spare props quotes to defend those positions and so I'm not trying to diminish or attack reforms but I want is to be clear that these issues are far more significant than reforms they'd run much deeper than that okay so I'm happy to move on and if everyone else is that she can apply this and it won't if we deal with this head-on you know we've got many misconceptions in our movement about who God is what kind of a person he is and we don't think like him we've got a lot of baggage that we need to deal with corporately the corporate understanding is made up of lots of little thoughts because we can get into groupthink and it's really bad when we get into groupthink especially when we start thinking about organization because if you've been in meetings I'm sure all of us have you know if someone is strident in their language they can just take the day basically they can get things push through just because they have eloquence or they're good orator or something like that orator and it's any and its really dangerous when you start collectively coming to him and to a group because people become rest reticent to make their voices heard and you get a lot of problems so I'm suggesting we still got a lot of baggage in our movement lot of idolatry lot of wrong doctrines and they need to be addressed next paragraph even the prophets who were favored with special illumination of the Spirit did not fully comprehend the import of the revelations committed to them the meaning was to be unfolded from age to age as the people of God should need the instruction therein contained so it begins with this short phrase even the prophets sister Cathy what does that phrase mean to you maybe that maybe my question is this I find like thought was making tea pathetic because I would do the kind people don't understand what I would get just run us through the first few words well what's our wife telling us when he says even the prop is well I think she's showing that there's two groups there's a profits that have special illumination in comparison to the servants hate Embree gaudy thoughts on that there's prophets and their servants they're not in the same category mr. Britney oh if you didn't hear what you say it's almost like to me there's qualifying these prophets as separate us as distinct because they have special illumination and these serve the servants on page 343 are different they don't have the special illumination but they're still messengers see that there's two groups but I think this word even putting both groups and those boots don't okay so both groups don't comprehend this is even the prophets don't comprehend but the fact that it says even the prophets is that's showing two groups so the prophets are not the servants they're two different classes of people so we can see that both Tyler no silence okay so what does it mean even the servants then what does it work even the servants me even what she I think she's using I think this is just a repeating larger what she said in the very beginning with the servants in the first paragraph she's gone two paragraphs down and then she did all the Bible references and now she's saying even the prophets okay was so what waits is even the prophets used it that she's talking about Joan buys air is that what you mean no no I mean I mean even the prophets for me and I could be wrong is the same thing as in the first paragraph whoever says especially directs his service you know the same people were talking about okay so you're going to skip paragraph three and you you're in paragraph two no truth is more clearly talk their gods through the Holy Spirit's going to direct servants on the earth to carry forward his work the bottom of the paragraph they don't fully understand what God would do for them they don't comprehend the message in all of its bearings and then if I just make it a run-on sentence even the prophets who were favored none of forget that even the prophets didn't fully comprehend so how to handle even the prophets be the same as the servants washes I think she's just using a different so I think I could ask a question for the servants who when she says servants who is she talking about who were the people who were who were especially directed on her it was the prophets you know it was Moses Isaiah Joe you know all the people she just quoting from those are the people who are especially directed in the next paragraph she's gonna say Peter wasn't Peter especially directed okay she's just using a different a different you know now that I'm a pronoun the way she's gonna use even because I get thing I get the the problem with even but you're gonna end up making you're gonna say servants are different than prophet and there she's literally talking about the same you so is it fair to say these servants don't comprehend the bearing the message did all of its bearings even the prophets didn't could fully comprehend it is it fair to say that it you know the car I'll cut out all the extra material the servants didn't comprehend the message in all of its bearings and even the prophets didn't fully comprehend it either so is that too much I see the distinction you can make they're just that I think I see that maybe problems are extra special but as the way she's using them here in terms of even these people who are giving these extra special endowments of whatever you know this extra special favor special illumination as she calls it still didn't comprehend it but I would again go back to the same thing isn't that the same people she's talking about in the first paragraph you know then again my other my other justifications would be in the next paragraph she's gonna say Peter and she because she's just doing repeat in large Brittany right I did you think about it dude I'm so saying my Internet yeah but he's disagree and is grammatically using on shaky ground ping yeah so I explained to him I how it's not working to us unless I misunderstand the word even well you tell us what it means include especially okay tell us how these structures working name we've got Silverstone understand it even the prophets don't understand it how's that working yeah it is two beautiful people so you've got the servants and the prophets two separate groups and vomit Allah is saying in the same group okay prophets you're gonna say prophets place humanizing it's not just the word even bet the word special elimination so you have two words in that sentence creating a dist servants and a few days ago we were discussing how Ellen White is a different class of prophet to say Miller and snorey so even there in the light history you can see that there are servants and then there's a prophet and I can't imagine that that was an entirely new scenario just from the right history but that there's there a distinction between the two sets of the human did you hear that or is that we had okay that Miller never received special illumination but he was a servant profit and she receives special to me there's two groups of people and it's reflected in this paragraph I can add or there's a difference between the servants and the provinces what I'm saying but J so talks about the servants as has already been mentioned profits been into that category was fun the what comes to my mind as I read this it says even the prophets who were favored with the special elimination of the spirit did not fully comprehend the import of the revelations committed to them so we have a prophet John was called the greatest of prophets but we're not shown that he was given any particularly special illumination but he was called the greatest of the prophets so when I look at this sentence I I think even the prophet Daniel Orton and John didn't fully comprehend what the Holy Spirit what what God showed to them even says Daniel and John were given special illumination they would which dog okay so are you thank you sorry yeah I should've clarified I how does that dress this so I think Whitney I think she's emphasizing the point all of these people are prop are our servants you know John the Baptist was a servant now there was a servant Moses was a servant and that's a bad example but Moses was a sermon but like I said when I read it what jumps out to me is like even the prophets like John and Daniel who are giving these major prophecies that are very in-depth that you see God commune with them over and over and over and over even they didn't fully understand or comprehend the import' things that were shown to them so you'll say the servants in paragraph 2 I'll take the first paragraph as the same as the prophets in paragraph in the third paragraph for for one thing that makes me okay the circuits didn't understand even the prophets don't understand you say they decided even the prophets that you have been given what we would consider the most light didn't understand is that a better way of putting that easier understand no I assign that big button I just want to make sure that we see even the prophets that they different to the servants who said they're the same prophets who are servants so the coaches she's saying the littlest of dogs servant right the littlest of God's servant a child that's doing God's work Samuel in the temple before I knew anything his dad servant obviously he's not gonna understand it you know we should be able to recognize that because he's just a child but then we're gonna look at Daniel and we're gonna look at John the Revelator and be like well they had to have understood it look at how many times Gabriel physically visited Daniel he had to have understood okay with the understand with their unsayable not understand you don't really make sure how you're tying these two paragraphs together if people are saying that the servants are separate and distinct from the prophets and some are saying they're the same thing amid tiny doesn't mean what it looks like she's saying is from the lowliest little servant to the highest profit so that politics is different to disturb it all prophets are certain okay so I'm going to rephrase what you said a from the little a servant the bigge servant yeah so you're saying the prophets are the servants which is big ones so much some of the popular service not all the parts the servant or distinct no service all prophets are servants but all servants are prophets there you go you said that four times no I said all prophets are servants like four times okay I'm sorry I'm sorry so they say I'm seeing that there's two types of prophets their profits and then there are profits with special illumination I agree with brother James that they can into the category of servant just as the Reapers are a type of servant there are different classes of Surma I guess I hope hold on there are two types of prophets and how many types of servants are they you just said dick classes of servant categories categories applause so you think there's more than one type of servant like no-one's and I won I'm just using about changes with different categories there's some servants who have a gift a prophecy that have a particular type of job to do that have the particular light given to them to fill a certain need here and then a different type to fills a certain fair and summer profits somewhere I mean I'm not being funny but I don't think anybody would go around bowing down to go haze I Elisha's servant everyone bounce down to Elijah because he's the Prophet okay so that's why it's like a high state and that's what's about fire alone by the Tyler I'm willing to yield I think anyway he'll I know I see I see that maybe I'm trying to maybe I'm thinking I'm going further I'm you know then where we are in sort of Khambhat I'm jumping ahead to something or you know where I think we might be there what do you think said they were clear to be real greater than I see I see how even the profits makes a distinction between those spoken of before and those being spoken of trouble so the servants in the province are in different contexts she's using them differently whether paid oh can I add something okay close the tape I need to be positive well it's just when you have the sentence even the prophets who were favored with special illumination of the spirit could distinguish two different classes of prophets right because there could be a class of prophets that's distinguished with this the special illumination of the Spirit and there can be another class of prophets that isn't okay sister this right so if that is true even the prophets then cannot necessarily mean that it's referring to this other group of servants as being they could be the other group that's also the other class of prophets and I guess they could be too but just in in the sentence there you know you can't make too much you need to read on right you understand what I'm saying yeah what you think so even the prophets yeah doesn't that's not enough you know we need to look at all the other things being said I would think that you know her emphasis here she's just going from people who God given they've given how God has given them a work to accomplish they don't understand it they don't comprehend it in all its bearings and then when she goes - even the prophets who were favored with special illumination these also did not you know understand everything Ella white doesn't necessarily understand everything she wrote she said she had to read her own writings and study them just like we do so but Ellen White is a prophet whose fate favoured with the special illumination of the Spirit but there are prophets who aren't so it's I don't think it's just saying that these are the prophets I think you know that's just I'm trying to clear my poppy that doesn't have a special illumination well John the Baptist would not have another one open visions another one well if we are prophets we don't necessarily have to have visions and dreams in order to now maybe prophet I made a biblical there's probably something I just can't think of them when you ask me that I guess it depends who you classify as a prophet from the Bible okay but would you consider people who wrote the New Testament people like Matthew Mark Luke and John would they be prophets in historian so they're historians okay biographies look love me okay yeah and Paul what about Paul I mean he did have it no no he says I went into that though I should not tell you but not everything that he's teaching he had by direct revelation he didn't have a bunch of a series of visions but in fact the vision that he did he doesn't even tell us what well know what help yeah so it would be a good one yeah Paul would be an example of somebody we would we would have to consider him a prophet but not having a special illumination now the question is did he understand everything he wrote we do great I would think that he did I think yes he writes good because he's not reading in any sort of symbolic language at all he's making your application of what's going on you zone yeah okay yes just wondering what we mean what we think special illumination means because Paul is the island prophet that she says did have special illumination okay so we're gonna read that in a second yeah we're gonna read that in a second yeah it's in your notes here they're in your notes okay what I want to pick up from here we're going to read on obviously East to see that these servants are specially selected people and depending upon what age you Ike says the meaning was to be unfold from age to age as the people of God should need instruction therein contained so these prophets going to write things and people aren't going to fully understand what they're saying even they don't understand what they're writing and later on it's going to be unfolded so it seems to me that when it says even the prophets I think there's some kind of subset of these servants so you get servants who were just specially selected people and sometimes occasionally once in a while one of those servants would be a prophet as she defines prophets here in the written the paragraph before she defines them as servants which kind of brings the the image where that these are just regular people who are just Bible studying and she contrasts that group of people to another class of people who have direct revelation this special illumination of the Spirit if I'm reading what special illumination if I'm reading that directly they had direct revelation from God so there's no advantage in having this direct revelation from God per se in this context because even they don't fully understand everything so we were talking about it I think at lunch or breakfast breakfast about and we can expect a profit and when I'm in our movement in our church of the class maybe not the volume of work but of the godly of the class of Ellen White and if we did would they understand that we think about the message what what help or assistant would they be able to give when we see that often these people don't really even understand what they're doing and it what I've picked up from this paragraph is that when it says that they don't fully understand the import of the revelations committed to them that's because those things are going to be fulfilled or unfolded in the future so there's nowhere they could actually understand it an example is Daniel and has given information that he thinks is connected to himself and it's not ease for something in the future okay so next paragraph Peter writing of the salvation brought to light through the gospel says of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you searching what or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow and to whom it was revealed that not unto themselves but unto us they did minister so he's at the Peter quote that you were referring to brother Tyler and what what was the point that you're making there okay what does that Bible verse say first Peter chapter 1 verse 10 to 12 for me saying that everything was revealed for the last generation so they didn't understand but we are to understand anyone else everything that was written before was written for us anyone else sister ELISA of grace and the kingdom of Hungary talks about but I don't know necessarily how that fits in we talked about it important oh brother the bulb sorry I think you handy that's okay Oh tying in with the previous paragraph you know saying even the prophets you know didn't fully understand things you know because it was pointing to something in the future and then when you get to this last sentence in the next paragraph here until it was revealed then add to themselves that administer but you know paraphrasing into a foot that it's ministering you know to us so it kind of kind of follows along with saying that what they wrote they didn't fully comprehend it but we are to comprehend it because it's ministering to us we're the ones were supposed to understand it even though they didn't what I'm seeing that last sentence read in the context solely for make you see that they didn't understand it because it wasn't for him because she said the person the prophets have inquired and searched diligently and then it was revealed to them that it wasn't for them so an example of this in these ones but for me at least is Daniel so Daniels going into this these visions this dialog with Gabriel assuming that it's all about him hit not literally him for his generation and he realized he's very quickly that it isn't and he struggles from chapter 8 to chapter 12 saying oh you know I don't understand any of this it doesn't make any sense and but by the time he gets to the end what does he say chapter 10 chapter 10 first few verses is the end of the book he's I understood what is it that he understands what is it that he understands it's not for him there are future events so he he understands the import of the messages that are being given to him that they're not even though he's going to play a part in that they're not really applicable to him and he struggles with this so I want to read this in a revised version because I think I think it makes it quite clear I think it's worded quite nicely so I'm gonna read from verse 10 I'll tell you when I get in to 11 and when I get into 12 so you can read along in your own in the King James that you're reading first 10 some prophets told how kind God would be to you and they searched hard to find out more about the way that you would be saved verse 11 the Spirit of Christ was in them and was telling them how Christ would suffer and would then be given great honor so they searched to find out exactly who Christ would be and when this would happen verse 12 but they were told that they were serving you and not serving themselves they preached to you by the power of the Holy Spirit who was sent from heaven and their message was only for you even though the angels would like to know more about it so I quite like that translation it makes it a little easier to comprehend I think what Peter is saying there that these messages that are being given to them even though they can understand something for their own dispensation what they're not going to understand is the things in all of its bearings because he's not even applicable to them and that's what she says in the paragraph before the meaning was to be unfolded from age to age as the people of God should need the instruction therein contained next paragraph yet while it was not given to the prophets to understand fully the things revealed to them they earnestly sought to obtain all the light which God had been pleased to make manifest they inquired and searched diligently searching what or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify what a lesson to the people of God in the Christian age for whose benefit these prophecies were given to his servants so was that when you meant we should read on and then if that's what you were saying when we should read on so here it says it's certainly talking about these prophets who have got the special illumination and here it calls them his servants which is the same phrase that's given before so when we tie this all together those servants that have been referred to in 3 4 3 paragraph 2 are people that have been selected sometimes they're normal people and sometimes they're in the context of here that the phrase being used prophets who had been given special illumination so you could argue you've got two types of servants or you've got two types of prophets sister Tess good question first Peter 1:12 always saying the Angels they understand prophecy completely they don't understand it in all its bearings okay so let's go to the King James Version and to whom it was revealed that not unto themselves but unto us they'd administer the things which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven which things the angels desire to look into so it's that last part of the verse where it says which things the angels desire to look into what does that mean so the question is does that mean angels don't actually understand this either is that a plain reading of that that last phrase I don't think it means that they don't understand I think that they're awaiting to see it actually happen that they're they understand what needs to happen and they're they're looking to see it happen in humanity in the world and they're not there waiting to see it happen but I don't see that it means that they don't understand it so how do you what what does it main thing says which says that the angels desire to look into what does that mean you'll say doesn't make the angels desire to understand it better after zoom you say does it mean that okay what it's talking about just angels here I don't know just like we're talking about servants and not all servants are specially illuminated to be prophets there's angels and do all the angels have all the exact understanding of everything or do some angels have more information than other angels I don't I'm trying to figure out what group of angels is talking about here or all the angels collectively have the same understanding I know that the Angels that do have the understanding are looking to see it happen on the earth see it unfold they want to see it unfold I think I think that phrase where it says desire to look into seems to be stomach like their yearning to peer into it to look into these things which to me infer seems to say that they don't that they're desiring to peer into these things but they're not able to sister Rachel well in verse 4 it says unto whom which was those prophets it was revealed that not unto themselves those prophets but unto us the generation in which we live in they the prophets were ministering which are now reported unto you the people at life by them that have preached the gospel unto you Paul as an example by the Holy Spirit which things these things the angels desire to look into it seems to me that verse 12 is talking about real life angels I would argue brother Theodore obviously the Angels know quite a bit about God's plan and purposes right he's revealed great many things to them and they're involved in our salvation the angel Gabriel gives you no special messages to Daniel but I think this is just you know what we what they don't understand is not what's been plainly shown to them it's the things that almost are impossible to comprehend because they have to do with God's character they have to do with God's purposes and how he is is working out this salvation so I don't think it would be reasonable to expect any created being to really understand the deaths because these are the depths of things like they're wanting to peer into these depths it's like you can see the ocean but they're wanting to peer into this his truth and understand that in its fullness and what the puppies try to do well with the prophets I would think that that's part of it but I think they're also wanting to know the events they wanting to understand how those events are gonna unfold maybe even the Angels that's part of what they're looking into as well so is it saying that the prophets want to delve into this yeah and so do the Angels yeah and if that's currently correct reading then it says in between those two things those men of old wanted to understand it by the way ages want to understand it as well and in between it says but unto us the prophets were ministry which are now reported unto you the things that they were talking about and now being explained to you by them the servants and today we'll take Paul is an example who the holy spirit is enlightening and it's these very things that the Angels are also looking into right so those prophets if you can imagine them still being a lie obviously they're not they're looking at what's happening today the ages are looking what's happening today because it's all being explained now so it seems that the prophets didn't really understand it and neither do the Angels when those things were being written until they come to their fulfillment but it's yeah well it's not that it's just being explained it's that it's being worked out yeah right you know it's being fulfilled yes that's what I mean by well yeah I say we you said well first explained and then fulfilled so because it's been explained now but it's being explained as it's being fulfilled yes I swear proxy quote says I can't remember what it found with special prophecies what something like in fulfillment or being fulfilled that's when the people understood what was happening they actually understand what's happening when they're being fulfilled so whenever this prophet was prophesying as it's being fulfilled its being explained at the same time which is what happens in the mother like history as those prophets come to fulfillment that's when they been explained so you're talking it sometimes to me about different types of knowledge or information so you talked earlier you know number classes back about we make mistakes we don't understand the message fully so and we should know these things we shouldn't have made some of these mistakes but that to me is a little bit different than you know having something revealed to you and not understanding and it's all of its bearings that would be because there's no way we could understand it in all of its bearings because there's we can't know the end from the beginning we can't see the import of of every action that we're doing we just have a message to give but the other one that you were talking about earlier is people who are actually giving a wrong message which i think is different than just not understanding the message and all of its bearings okay so do you think that's my brain and what you're saying that these are two different things yeah I'm fine with that okay I just want to pick up this issue because the question was about the Angels the angels don't understand everything that's going on until someone is raised up to explain it as it's being fulfilled they don't seem to have the tree knowledge just like other people don't seem to have pre knowledge because it would be saying that there are only any comments so help and just one other thought so it's not just that hasn't like sister olivine said they're not omniscient but they also have the prophesies in front of them and it's still locked to their understanding until it's opened to us that's not that those seems to me to say when when these things are now reported unto you by then whatever's being reported these are the very things that the angels desire to peer into as well as prophesied oh yeah I think that's kind of weird the idea what you're

said yeah and to whom it was

revealed that I'm not unto themselves but unto a state administer witness those holy men of God is they inquired and searched diligently concerning revelations given them for generations that were yet unborn contrast their whole easy with the listless unconcerned with which the favored ones of later ages treat this gift of heaven what a rebuke to the ease loving world loving indifference which is content to declare that the prophecies cannot be understood I'm just wondering how far I want to go okay we'll read this one next paragraph though the finite minds of men are in adequate to enter into the counsels of the infinite one or to understand fully the working out of his purposes yet often it is because of some error or neglect on their own part that they so dimly comprehend the messages of heaven and I think this was alluding to what you were saying a moment ago not infrequently the minds of the people and even of God's servants are so blinded by human opinions the traditions and false teachings of men that they are able only partially to grasp the great things which he has revealed in his word thus it was with the disciples of Christ and I mentioned if I was doing that paragraph I would have spoken about the disciples not about the passage from Isaiah thus it was that the disciple with the disciples of Christ even when the Savior was with them in person their minds had become imbued with the popular conception of the Messiah as a temporal prince who was to exalt Israel to the throne of the universal Empire and even though she doesn't say it here I'm saying the primary culprit in that was John the Baptist he had into the gate he had imbued that into their minds along with you know their I call it their secular education which is obviously they went to church schools whatever but in agreement in that education the National Education John the Baptist as he's reading them into this movement he's teaching them the same thing so when Christ comes and says you've been to incorrectly by John it becomes virtually impossible for them to undo all of that damage that's being done to them it's a lot a lot of hard work and I'll say difficult it almost becomes impossible and it takes Christ's death to wake them up to the reality of that situation without that they would have just carried on blissfully here to actually die for them to actually say okay it's true because they would never accept it before the event and they could not understand the meaning of his words for telling his suffering and death Christ himself had sent them forth with the message the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand repent ye and believe the gospel that message was based on the prophecy of Daniel 9 69 weeks were declared by the angel to extend to the Messiah the Prince and with high hopes and joyful anticipation anticipations the disciples looked forward to the establishment of messiahs Kingdom at Jerusalem to rule over the whole earth so I've read quite a bit look the point that I like in three four four paragraph four that's the paragraph that begins though the finite minds of men are inadequate to enter into the counsels of the infinite one which is basically the Bible passages that we read she says hid them she uses the phrase it is often it's often the case that the reason for this is not a fault that we're human and His divine that's not what the problem is the problem is bad training so we've been blinded by human opinions traditions false teachings and that's why we're not able to grasp these things it's not because we've got frail weak minds and we don't try hard enough I'll be like studied long enough this is throw them in the fire ground forces that see it while it was not to the profits to understand fully the things reveal to them they earnestly sought to obtain all the light which God had been pleased to make manifest then the last part says what a rebuke to the is loving world loving indifference which is content to the clear that the prophecies cannot be understood that kinda review in my mind to what you were saying this morning as we were talking about raffia and basically we were saying that we don't understand but here this is same we should understand and that it is the Prophet diligently sought I smell a new rabbit because it said they wanted to noting that only before their time and we are indifferent about the things that pertain unto over time so it's it's like a strong rebuke that she's saying that we are being careless really things that pertain to our East where the toilet is she saying that there's a infinite amount of knowledge available but there's a cap on that knowledge at some point along that scale because you're a finite being and so there's the upper cap that anyone no matter how amazing of a human you are can't get past that point you're not going and then the low of that we don't get to that point because of sin we can't even reach to the point that the Lord would want us to be at which might be the cap because of the error and that's why we dimly comprehend even the basics of the Menza what she's saying that's how I see that though the finite minds of men are inadequate to enter into the counsels of the infinite infinite one or to understand fully the workings out of the purposes yet often that's not what the problem is often the problem is damaged traditions false teachings and the opinions of human beings and that's why we struggle so much and to me that's the accusation that's being leveled against us it's not you know you don't get very far cause you're human does that would be relations argument meaning this and so when we were picking up from three four three paragraph two they don't comprehending the Combahee in all of its bearings etc I don't think that's because he's so infinite and we're so finite and we say what would you expect how can we understand it in all of these barriers it wouldn't be fair so it seems to me what why would why would she make this statement about something that's just inherently unfair I read in two three four three paragraph two this issue of not understanding partly because there's this progressive work I understand she's building that she's built that logic into here but it's also because of the traditions of men that we've just imbued imbibed and it's and it's damaged us and we have to come out of that brother Bob I don't didn't bring my phones I can't look it up right now but there's there's a verse that talks about the things that there's things that God is never gonna reveal to us throughout the ceaseless ages okay we're not gonna ever know because his ways are higher than our ways and that must a bit but the Scriptures make it clear that the things that God has revealed pardon Deuteronomy chapter 29 Deuteronomy 29 the things have been revealed are frust and and what the reality of it is is we're not understanding the things that have been revealed why is he not going to reveal them through eternity while we hold back I'm not sure I just know I've read statements that say that there's things you know that God is not going to reveal that reveal everything about himself yeah if you become one flesh with someone she may be doing that you think I just wonder if he's taken if he's packed like a human being and we're like an act I mean how much communication can a human being have with an ant how much can they really understand about the way you think and your purpose is they're just kind of live in their own little world that ant welcome and it's the problem seems to me it's cuz they're ants it's not a problem with us because we could talk to the you've got a cat you can talk to it or a dog forever you you could do whatever you want with the cat or the dog it doesn't understand anything you're talking about I mean I understand a few words if you tell it to sick because it's been trained that way but that it can't enter into your world just because it's a different species I just wondered that through eternity the problem that God can't tell us everything is not because it's like house holding back is just impossible for him to communicate that because even though he comes down to our level and with one session Jesus is human evening throughout eternity will be he still can't fully enter into or be human and we can't ever fully become God it's just impossible to do that right I appreciate that I wasn't trying to mean the guy that's gonna hold back and I mean to imply that I know it's been said that thought hey I know it's been said that the reason the mud people don't understand our country and it's because of sin but maybe they didn't read this passage carefully enough but if I just read these paragraphs I wouldn't have gotten that idea it would have only gotten the idea that it's due to hanging on to traditions of men or false doctrine so are we explaining the to sin and where did we get seen from did I say that Tyler's in it he says we don't that the people don't understand because of saying no he said because I've seen in the sense of fallen in their fallen condition not as in well that's what I understood what he said is that he was in because of our fallen condition not because of a practicing off so you can use the word sin he being okay so even if you didn't what was your intent of why we don't fully comprehend or is it fit to like that um so I said there was a cap and then you don't believe that was very young cap mm-hmm sister birthday he's out you referring to that model no one cuz I went further I went further to say that there's the cap and I said the yet often part was because of error and I might have accidentally said sin I didn't mean to I sorted I meant doctrinal error or traditions or harbor she's describing today regardless are we equating the two our week waiting let me read that that we're blinded by human opinion traditions and forth teachings of men and that's what's causing us to only partly grasp the great things which he has revealed in his words is it sin to do that is that your question tree if you didn't see that I wouldn't have gotten home yet and the only reason I picked up idolatry is because Ellen White's going to use Isaiah 40 Isaiah 55 no 46 9 and 10 and verses at least 1 to 7 of that chapter Isaiah 46 BC 340 paragraph 3 46 1 to 7 he's saying which God do you want to serve which is the true God the God who tells you about the future or these idols that you have to carry around on your shoulders which God are you want to serve they took to a group of people and he said you should be serving the God that can predict future not these idols and the way that she's tying that passage together it seems to me is that she's referring to these servants that the servants of the people in Isaiah 46 but he's are talking to them if that makes sense the people he's talking to his his servants contextually so the servants are basically following idols they're not following the god who can predict the future and I'm suggesting that idolatry or those idols connected to the doctrines they're not literal idols if you want to make some application on that and that idolatry is false doctrine so the primary false doctrine is that we can't peer into the future that's the doctrine that all Adventists hold onto you can pick up a couple of the events but even that you can't do properly but the true God will tell you that you can predict the future and he'll tell you on what basis you can predict the future then it's by looking to the past and getting that history in the past and making an application that it's going to be the same in the future that's the God that we should be serving and any other kind of doctrine that you have is basically idol worship and the people that are holding onto that are these servants and that's what slimming to them limiting them and in the paragraphs afterwards it's the human traditions if you like because the human traditions say you can't predict the future we have no ability to do that and these servants have bought into that so it limits them to understand what's going on and if you want to call idolatry or how we got to false doctrine sin we could call it the full generation or the sins of our fathers and we need to repent of those sins whatever that we're going to talk we're going to say what that repentance is it's not so we're repenting because our grandfather did some moral crime not repenting for that by repenting because the crime that he did has brought us into a situation that we're now totally and completely separate from God and we don't even understand who God is great what is this what's the solution it's all in your city what I said it you said we're to repent I'm not for so more have a heart say be too I think this morning you all know that to Leviticus 26 where God said that we are to say we have walked contrary to him and he turned and walked contrary to us and it's like a prerequisite to be not one with God so also she made the same reference I think to be Millerites where she said being held on to pagan and papist doctrines that's why they are so we have to repent and we see repentance in the do walk sure the one environment is she's talking about didn't understand the ones that did to whatever degree that they did but they would understand the message in its full bearing to mean we'd go back to Daniel Danny chapter 9 when he repents it's only one chapter later although it may be years or whatever but next chapter he says yep I understand there I mean thought the next week the next chapter because he's after Chapter 12 the first part of chapter 10 half was after that after 12 ends he says now I understand so I would argue on just on that basis that once he repents of the sins he can now fully understand the message in all of its bearings he understands his own generation and he actually understands what's going to happen in the future but he's just not allowed to tell us that's the sinning of the book you said how do what was the solution it's to repent and where do we see repentance first angels message the first angels message not only as the component of repentance it has this great light this increase of knowledge of what's about to happen because it's pointing you forward to the great work of judgment that's about to occur pitaya so I see the crown she's mentioned because she ready because if you think of the the merits and the disciples you know two witnesses enough for this is that they have no idea what cream in tradition they were hanging on to they weren't walking around saying oh I'm holding on to the fact that I misunderstand this about the sanction or at being the sanctuary and I'm gonna hold on to that because I think you know that's a good idea and maybe it's threat you know the no idea you know they couldn't know until something's happened to where it was proven that they came to that problem same thing with the disciples everything that Christ said just went right over their heads because they their antennas weren't up for it because they misunderstood something in Christ never plainly said hey guys I you know you guys are wrong about the fact that I'm I'm supposed to be a kingly ruler here and you need to sort that out because you're gonna be really disappointed here in about a year when I get put on the cross and you realize everything's different you know everything in both cases went right over their heads till they came to the point of disappointment I don't think I think there's sometimes when we hold on to preconceived ideas and we're convicted about that but that's not what the disciples didn't I don't think that's what the knives did you mean you're no paint this nice picture like these poor weak men you know tins I think it's God's fault I think it's God's fault that they had these problems no no it was equal neglect 23 when he said to John the Baptist his disciples just sit over there and watch me for a day and they're sitting bored thinking what's he doing I mean they didn't have any idea what message did the Millerites get that explained that the earth wasn't the sanctuary when did they get that truth you know nobody had that reveal to them that we we have knowledge of seems to me they took a lot about the sanctuary they seem to understand lots of things about that they understand about the first day of the seventh month they have a clear understanding all of that means they talk about the close of probation and they're using that in the framework of the day of atonement so they're usually in Old Testament passages in the same way that we would do but they've got this blockage they have a blockage but they have no idea that I'm garbage what my point is they don't know it may be their fault maybe I I only say that but my point is that they don't know it's not it's not a wider lane of Ramadan you sinful neglect why don't we know about what rap here is sent from the but now you get everybody that it's got you don't really believe that do you have maybe you haven't been revealed yet you know that it's not we're not at that specific moment and I mean like in this moment today yeah you know five o'clock you know but or maybe we are I don't know okay why do you why do you mean me suspect with the 2016 presidential elections I think at least a handful of people said it was gonna be from maybe we didn't collectively say it but there was definitely people whose movement was saying you like this we didn't start off that way we start off with it being a joke then we got serious about it and then we still we waive it why is that not sinful neglect I'm not saying it's not I'm but I'm saying I think that's different than then the Millerites with the sanctuary doctrine of the because they did they just didn't no it's not they weren't toying with it and saying I that we can see maybe they did but we there was never a point where we saw them wavering about whether the earth was the center enough you know they never it was just a given it was that that's just what it was and there wasn't even room to debate that it was just that's we all get it it's like a groupthink almost we all came into the room and we all say okay things we know Earth's the sanctuary you know so my point is how can I confess something I don't know exists yeah but the servant of the Lord said it wasn't God's will she said October 22nd disappointment was not God's will great controversy tell and that is where she said it is because they held on no but if it was not God's will obviously if someone had asked he would have revealed it obvious how much she didn't ask huh how can you ask a question you don't know to ask come on Tyler if it is not God's will going to think that angels are that must be pumped in your mind to look deeper into a topic that God wants you to look into how can God say hey it's not my fault it's your fault that man we're going to say well nobody really told me so therefore all spot is it I read you read you know you're gonna thank God exactly and God said it was not easily Oh where'd you get infinitely from the passage how do we read that so we read that prepare out sister Brittany and propagator now Bronk hey don't sister Brittany it's sinful neglect in our message of a sinful look like then for the simple reason that I've seen it light has come to us and we get deflected away from that light because of conflicts and all kinds of different reasons that we have we pride we don't like you yep personality things go on so somebody who knows in the Miller a time period they may may have been somebody who was trying to get them to recognize that the earth was not the sanctuary but we don't hear about him because he wasn't important or people didn't listen to him or he you know talked funny or whatever right we don't know but it is sinful neglect because light always comes from God to prepare us not just because we know that it's there sufficient light there but also we know that even though there's sufficient light that we often don't accept all of that light and that causes problems she's the great name I just don't think anything I just don't think anything that's been said has solved the problem in figuring out what false doctrine we're all in what today yeah I I don't I don't see a solution I know that I don't think it's as simple as repenting for the sins of your people I don't see it that way I always supposed to ask what false doctrines am i holding on to revealing to me yes but that for me that that would be do where we that would be the place that we first need to go god what is it that I'm holding on to that is not in accordance with your will and Ellen White says when it comes to sing God's answers never wait it is always yes and amen we are from these passages that we read we got strong rebukes I'll give you one we're here ish agree with that so if I were to tell you we're here in a Sunday law would you be living like you're living now Deut if you just if you come out the message or adventists and you switch on the news they say the sunday laws just happen now that you say we're in the loud cry is your life going to be the same would you be running around like a headless chicken thinking what we're supposed to be doing we should be going to the prayer meeting we need to double up buckle under whicker's we're headed towards Daniel 12:1 and week it could happen anytime we don't know how long this period is wouldn't you be scared we've been here for four years and most of us are still treading water we still live like all things continue to me it's the most glaring sinful neglect of this movement it's facing us it's there it's right in the face we still have not accepted 2014 as the Sunday law we still haven't bought into that we're just getting to the place now that we can sort of talk about it comfortably that we kind of intellectually recognize it but I really think it's actually impacted us in our experience because we still haven't recognized and you know it came up in class only a few days ago that the movement rejected that they rejected the prediction that the Sunday law is here and I don't think we're very fully recover fully recovered from that and so here we are four years down the road the loud cry is already blowing and we don't even know it's happening and last time I checked and there don't mean that's you know rudely when the loud cry comes you're supposed to be crying to people and most of us are just busy in our little lives doing our little things and we have a sinful neglect for our brothers and sisters in the church and we no longer care for them and probations about to close and we just say well let's not worry because we've got a whole heap of history over here because maybe they're Levites but maybe they're not Levites and I think the big simple neglect that we are now committing is that we're not going to the churches as we were commanded to do in Ezekiel 1:1 to go and call these people out because we still think there's time for them and there isn't time that to me is the biggest sinful neglected we wanted to repent about things brother Tyler I agree I think that's a really good example a simple note but but I think that's distinctly different than the earth being the sanctuary kind of argument because case yes yep yeah it's a bit of that's my only point and they just didn't know about it so I'm saying if they didn't know about it then if they didn't know to ask that they had a problem with that you know it's they're sort of it's a catch-22 um yeah the problem is they didn't know to ask about the hour of his judgment is come that was given to them you know this is push technology God is pushing upon them you know it's not that they have to say what is it what is it with that we don't know that we can't ask for which is how your thought framing that God was twitching this we have to believe that if they were not made to make that mistake then the simple neglect is on their part because it was but it was being given to them and they were just not listening or as just means exactly someone baby was and nobody listened that there's something there that you know that they invent the first time you've met even when you're studying the sound let's work this out we know that angels were guiding their minds and either the Lord had his hand over that October 22nd or he didn't and there's no evidence that he did in fact yeah it's point for the factors datang wasn't there and and this problem stems right from the very beginning nobody paid attention to what was going on can we way out of time but people still got some point sister Kathy then brother Daniel no more time last one because we've run out her they did reject millennialism which was another big cost after another time so I was just considering like oh wow they they saw that they spotted it and rejected it so I was just considering that but they should have because it's in the very same verse cannulate 14 the very same verse let's pray Heavenly Father we want to ask and pray that you would be with us guide us and bless us as we considered the role of these lesser prophets and those with special illumination help us to consider our part in the work that you have given us to do we've discussed about the simple neglect and the reasons why we don't understand everything that the way that we are supposed to and Lord when we look at ourselves we see ourselves as a movement as the people there are so many examples father that we have neglected to do the work that you have told us to do father before it's too late for us individually and for those brothers and sisters who need to hear these truths before it's too late for them help us Lord to get our house in order we pray in Jesus his name I mean