(09-16-18) Morning - Application - (z0vE929Nqv8)




Publish Date: 9/16/2018
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oh man didn't for anybody had a chance to go over the study last night probably didn't we've got a bit late and it's an early start so I'll quickly read those last paragraphs from tests mr. Church volume 9 page 28 90 28 will they impressive seen in the visions of the night a very impressive scene passed before me I saw an immense ball of fire among some beautiful mansions causing their instant destruction I heard someone say we knew that the judgments of God were coming upon the earth but we did not know that they would come so soon others with agonized voice he said you knew why then did you not tell us we did not know on every side I heard similar words of reproach spoken so when it says I heard someone say we knew the judgments of God were coming but not so soon who is that talking about mr. rating goes people who knows these things someone else said yesterday church rejected Ventus in distress I woke I went to sleep again and I seem to be in a large gathering one of authority was addressing the company before whom was spread out a map of the world he said that the map pictured God's vineyard which must be cultivated as light from heaven shun upon anyone as light from heaven shun upon anyone that one was to reflect the light to others lights were to be kindled in many places and from these lights still other lights were to be kindled the words were repeated ye are the salt of the earth but if the salt have lost his savour wherewith shall he be salted it is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and to be trodden under foot of men ye are the light of the world a city that he set on an Hill cannot be hid neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel but on a candlestick and he giveth light unto all that are in the house let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven that's you chapter 5 I saw Jets of light shining from cities and villages and from the high places and the low places of the earth God's Word was obeyed and as a result there were memorials for him in every city and village his truth was proclaimed throughout the world then this map was removed and another put in its place on it light was shining from a few places only the rest of the world was in darkness with only a glimmer of light here and there our instructor said this darkness is the result of men's following their own course they have cherished hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil they've made questioning and false finding and accusing the chief business of their lives their hearts are not right with God they've hidden their light a bushel every soldier of Christ had done his duty every watch me on the walls designed had given the trumpet a certain sound the world might air have been have heard the message of warning but the work is years behind while men slept Satan has stolen the march upon us so I thought I'd really just in case we didn't get a chance to do it cuz this one's a tie to the last bits and pieces from this section so she has these two maps what's that telling us she groups of people right you gods I feel and then the reality of what is actually it's still one of them's actually taking place in one of the musicals reality or I'm great hmm perhaps to history's Rachel's explanation better she prefer her version than yours yeah assume history's that you could choose well yeah two possible outcomes but God's gonna get he's way like he has everything set up hell it's going to be so I guess offense who's gonna do it I've got the impression he was saying God's ideal is this beautiful picture and the reality is it's gonna be a bad picture unless I misunderstood Howie what would you say this is gonna be bad you won't be good that's what you say it can't change it can or it will because I thought us ie could be either one well yet that's what I was thinking when I said to you ill turn to possible histories you think it's gonna be definitely good well it's gonna be what God desires so in the time of Christ the only desire twelve people to do this work for him a small group of people to do that work so they've got gets the glory one go to the leaders then so just to rub it in well if you if you only what's a small group of people the inference is that when he goes to the top main with all the structure and the money with the potential of them glorifying themselves that he's like you're are you suggesting it seems to me that he doesn't really want to even use them he just wants to rub it in that they're just a waste of time it's not going to use them anyway he's a just give them the opportunity doesn't mean okay so that means he would use them that is that I asked I'm asking what he's what he's I don't know what to say plan a and plan because only he operates in that way like like we do but what he's I mean if he goes to the met the leaders first isn't that what he's ideal plan is which is this hot with his huge infrastructure well financed that he's supposed to be doing this work not this ragtag band of 1200 Achates main which one's his option that he wants to go for buddy ask me because she said well he prefers to you talk small groups well that's that's what I've read so so I mean client to think that he kind of knows how this is gonna go but he has to give the opportunity anyway let's just go through the motions well perhaps from God's perspective but from men's perspective I mean they they need to prove themselves don't they it's a foregone conclusion from God's perspective he knows the outcome so great I'm saying I don't think it's God's will the first one that you mentioned with them so which ones not ease will I hope the first map will look pretty good he dun Laoghaire how do you've got to match how do you read in these two maps I never lost my track which one's good okay in the second one so one's good and one's bad and what's that what's that what's this what's this story showing us thank you you're the salt of the earth if we do the work that you've given to you you can send light into places of the world which is the first map but if you don't do nicely done okay so how you reading that that is what you know we've got we've got a history laid before us we can choose all ones inevitable I don't think that's what she's saying or what Gregory saying it seemed to me I had might as well actions but I thought that she was saying right now the work is years behind the reality right now is that it's maybe James yeah you had you Hanabi well as things are being talked about other ideas I definitely I definitely see what seems to be two possibilities the second paragraph is is what I'm a little stumped off I can't tell it seems to be present tense and so if its present tense it's showing what the work is and what has to be able to come for it to become the second matter if it's present tense but I don't know that it's present tense they could just be in the future these are the two possibilities but I think I think God's will is definitely first for the book who is he's talking about it says in the visions of the night 28.1 an impressive scene passed upon me I saw these balls come in this one person said oh I knew they were coming but I didn't know they were coming so soon and the other person said so other people said you knew and you didn't tell us she woke up she goes back to sleep and she's basically gonna have the same or a related videos I want to say the same one related vision now she's in some kind of strategy room where there's this map and they're making some kind of battle plan it seems to me that's that's kind of the context that I'm picking up and there's this map of the world where you've got all your agents there this is the Lord's vineyard and it must be cultivated it's like from heaven shown upon anyone that light was reflected to others then lights were to be kindled in many places and from these lights still other lights were to be kindled so everyone's lighting each other then the words repeated from Matthew chapter 5 which is basically the purpose of God's people it's neither negative or positive except for the first bit no he's in fact even it's not negatives just as a matter of fact what the purpose of these various things are these candles and the sorts next paragraph saw Jets of light shining from city of cities from place to place and maps removed and there's another one that's put in its place every soldier of Christ had done his duty so I want to ask I've seen your head just check something quickly so we're in 90 nineties published in 1909 so I can't read look in detail this book's probably ten years in the making maybe a little bit less five or ten years it takes they collect quite a lot of information it will tell you in the book I'll have a quick look because people say I've said something wrong I think it's around 1902 so it's about a seven-year period and she has this vision about the map and who's she talking to who's she addressing where this person said oh I knew it was coming everyone saying these RS da's yes so the the map or the the vision is addressed to s das obviously this is coming at the end of the world now we already spoke in fact you came up yesterday again if you remember Matthew 24 don't have to turn there it's just I'm just want to pick up one little phrase Matthew 24:14 this gospel the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come and when we looked at that not yesterday but before wait what power little passage did we see Matthew 24:14 had I know I'm not talking about mark or Luke I'm talking about another one that we looked at cautions 123 so this is Colossians 1:23 now we know that Paul basically does this almost single-handedly and that's a fair assessment of that history again we're not going to make Paul an individual at the end of the world we're going to make him a symbol of God's people but if you go through the story of the New Testament basically New Testament is is porn besides the Gospels everything else is essentially Paul or some commentary on Paul's approach there's a few letters obviously by John and Peter one by James Paul has this motif or concept or ideology and it came up in that the Sabbath School actually I think it's chintuji it wasn't addressed specifically in that way when you went to Hebrews chapter 10 or 11 economy which chapter they went to but Paul's going to talk about Israel and he says there are two Israel's I can express it that way and you see the clearest modeling of this by thinking Galatians chapter 4 so in Galatians chapter 4 he's going to talk about two wives two sons two cities two mountains okay with that yeah and he's gonna call one I guess the earthly and one the heavenly just when we talk about the cities at least so this is rau here in the context of Revelation chapter two and three what church would we identify this to be to Israel's great so we've got two meter does that make sense what I'm talking about it will say things like all Israelis not Israel yeah okay so which one would be the Jew - which one would be the Gentile okay so you want you're saying that these are the Jews and these are the Gentiles will you play sport I'm gonna okay I just said a minute ago there's two Jerusalem's it's Juicery at Jerusalem one in Jerusalem - he's too white Hagar and Sarah two sons he's in both so he's he's here this earthly Jerusalem the Catholic okay so that was my original question so you're saying this is later seer in Ephesus so rather grains made this to Jews and the Gentiles so if you go to Roman's 3 9 we'll go to the Romans 3 9 can you remember your question brother James or join the ask it now if you won't can't hold it okay I would have come I'm going to come back Rome is 3 9 what they are we better than they just a Brahmin who's the we who's the day no in no wise we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles that they are all under sin so if this is later seer and this is Ephesus who's under sin and who's not under sin that's right these are under seen these so they're both under scene so we can see this model isn't quite correct so if they're both under scene if you ignore this the bottom bit or we go lay the seer in Ephesus Jerusalem that's here present the earth p1 in the heavenly Jerusalem which Jerusalem is under sin which church is under sin lay the serie references is Ephesus under sin in scene not going to that passage because he doesn't mention Ephesus in that passage emphasis is not so this is a group of people that's not under scene or Church that's not understand and later series agree with that so this is sin and this is not seen okay with that so who's under sin according to romans 3 9 both so i'm going to change that and make it Jews and Gentiles so here's the Jews and Gentiles and here Ephesus this New Testament church who's it composed of until you in the passage until you in Romans we've got to go somewhere else could be or is it is yes so this is Jews and Gentiles as well Paul speaks a lot about this especially to go to for the pians chapter 3 is a nice passage that you could go to he talks about we and then when he says we he means we Jews and Gentiles go to Galatians when he rebukes Peter he says he used to eat with the Gentiles but when his Jewish friends came he'd assembled himself and left showing that he was not properly understanding this modeling our wheel okay with it laid out this way yeah so according to Colossians 1:23 if you go to most led to read it Matthew 24 it says in this gospel the kingdom shall be preached in two preaching on that in all the world it just sort of says someone's gonna preach this gospel didn't tell you who's gonna do it and the inference is it's going to be the church obviously but in Colossians 1:23 specifically tells you is gonna do that does it no it doesn't doesn't tell you specifically who's gonna do that but if you go back into the history of the New Testament who's actually doing this work is it this group or this group who's actually fulfilling Colossians 1:23 they the seer or Ephesus Ephesus yeah because if you go to Matthew 23 38 lay the Sears house is desolate long before the work of Colossians 1:23 even begins yeah the house is left unto desolate unto them desolate this is this church here they're already a desolated Church they're in sin under sin not fit for purpose and it's this group they're going to be doing this work now when we just read this passage in 90 other whites here and she's saying she's just stas she's us and she's talking about this future event so if you were to read that as a regular church go in SDA and you see the mess that the church is in what would you be doing what you thinking you see the structure above you you're just a lay person this friend ray would you be thinking it's a regular church member and read this passage to maps and you say look at the church okay I'm talking about those that you were here in the class yesterday evening no you wait okay too much story sister Bronwyn regular church member okay who's us so you're going to be talking to your elder and pray for your pastor and the conference structure this is what other white funnels us into this this thought process that the church is going to be intact shouldn't have a offshoots we're not going to have this elite group coming out of the church there's all of these passages that she's going to give to us because she has a perspective that seventh-day Adventists are going to run all the way to the end that is that fear really but here you have the same dynamic the leadership the church cannot believe they cannot accept that you're going to get this group here this 12 comes thirteen who's going to go and do this work in fact Christ in Matthew 23 says when you people try to do these vandalism what do you do worse double than yourself yeah you make them the sons of Satan much worse than you already are because they don't even know half they don't even know the rules this you know some rules and you have a semblance of being children of God semblance children of God lay the seer the other ones don't even had to operate so they become worse than you so this group that's going to do this work for them so the only thing I mentioned that is the way ninety is rich it just seems to be the SDA conference structure has to get his act together we use the concept of the phrase you have to get you have to stay in the boat stay in the ark don't leave just try and get the ark into good shape so it's fit for purpose so that map works properly but you know in this history before you can do Colossians 1:23 before you can go and give the gospel to the world there needs to be this separation or this tension in God's church between lay the seer and Ephesus you can see that and so when we come to the last part of 9t page 28 onward we know that this can't be referring to this sense they Adventists conference structure or the structured church or what Ellen White would call the regular lines can't be referring to that if we know that this history is going to be repeated so this statement has to be talking about whom has to be talking about Ephesus called the church triumphant the church that conquers revelation 6 and so this must be referring to us so we need to ask ourselves what are we fulfilling are we going to be fulfilling this small scattered map are we going to be fulfilling this map that's got light all across the globe so I just want to add that point in that this if you're going to see how history repeats this is a specific criticism if I can say it that way of this movement and its inability its unwillingness to actually do what God wants it to do depend on how we read this brother James history can definitely repeat but but as I reread the paragraphs it says for the second map that says our instructor said this darkness is the result of men's following their own course and why okay the next paragraph so second-to-last says if every soldier of Christ had done his duty the world might hear this have heard the message of warning and so I still see that there's two possibilities for the two maps but it's for present time for a hurt for her time is what the bid how the vision seems to be being given it could have been the first map right then when he's talking about it but the second map is the way that it is not saying that history can't repeat and not saying that we're not doing the same thing but that's the way it seems like it's written any what else I was just thinking through this topic but the story of Jerry not in a lie job they were fit for purpose and people sorry Elijah and Jonah they were fit for purpose but had hesitations and I'm willingness to do what God planned for them and at the end of the day God was poking and prodding and jabbing here and there to bring about what he wanted and in Jonah's case have been him swallow to be transported by a sea creature so I'm just wondering could if if a party is unfit for purpose does that mean God will take that candlestick away and find someone else who will do it but if a person's fit for purpose he can still he can still work with them to bring about his desired outcome so you're in the story of Jonah he forces the him into submission I don't know about force because but he certainly he certainly moved to fears a fair bit to try and communicate a journal what he wants in other words I think you've join us stuck to his guns it's a possibility he could have been shoved aside and God would've died only taken the rest of the sailors with him would have been serious but I stink I still think it's a bit of both trying to cos still had a choice he has a choice but God puts a a lot of leverage on him absolutely yeah and if he had said well I'll stick to my guns he would have been taken out killed and someone else would have had to have done that work you know well god knows what each of us how each of us has to be prodigy for us to realize what we need to do we don't we don't see you know any of everybody stopped on the road somewhere and blinded and Jesus speak to them we know that's what it was gonna take for Paul to be for it to click in his head same thing with Jonah not everybody gets swallowed by a whale but that's what needed to happen for Jonah to understand what what he needed to do because they're rebellious yeah he's rebellious or have a misunderstanding I guess I guess you could be rebellious because it the misunderstanding always so Jonah's not rebellious Saul is not rebellious kicks against the pricks I don't think he misunderstands anything would he be what would he be misunderstanding what was mentioned preconceived ideas they think they know what right is but it's not right isn't that a misunderstanding yeah but the disciples have a misunderstanding and they get on the right side of the bow of the of the issue Thoth has a misunderstanding but he's absorbed in worldliness and self ambition so misunderstandings aren't going to be you're a good excuse say it's just pure rebellion because the disciples on we've been he said that that level they just don't understand because they've been taught wrong information Saul doesn't have those hasn't it doesn't have that luxury when the most educated many know the scriptures in and inside out and he knows what all these people are talking about when they talk about these Old Testament prophecies being fulfilled but he's got ambition from him him okay so he points to bring up is I'm saying this is a reference to this movement and we have this option before us whether or not we're gonna pass or fail I want to pick up one more point while we're here so let's go back up a bit so far up 90 13.1 the scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire men looked at the lofty and supposedly fireproof building that said they're perfectly safe the fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction the firemen were unable to operate the engines contextually that seems to me you're talking about the day of the Lord how do we I think we turn this into 911 so this is not talking about the dead Lord you say this is a flashback that's how you're gonna say that are gonna be destroyed the day of the Lord so yes all the cities are gonna be destroyed as in New York but I don't wait to get in New York from okay actually talking about New York megamix that I one occasion when in New York City I was in the night season called the pond to behold buildings rising story after story he says these are buildings in New York or shoes in New York New York you want to read that into that you didn't say that I don't mind you reading into it but he didn't say that did she he said he's in New York building not Shanghai not London I think you guys Rock there are some huge buildings there too right up to heaven but I'm just reading I'm saying she didn't say the buildings are in New York we've read that into that passage to LA I'm asking just because she's sleeping in New York I buy what you think I'm I'm just asking what he's saying I'm not attacking what you think I'm just saying she didn't say these buildings are in New York you wanna read that into that because she's having a vision in New York Irish is having okay Irish is having a vision she was called upon to behold buildings rising story after story towards heaven and she is in New York yeah when I was in the night season you don't think that night season I was called upon to be whole you don't see that as a vision tell me what's the what this paragraph she say she she paid a visit to New York once she was asleep in New York yeah and then she what what happened I'm not trying to pound you into the corner but I don't know why you wanna read something like this a simple reading of me says she's in New York had a dream lots of buildings and these buildings are being created because these men want to oppress the poor people so you're saying that it's really bad in New York the suppression of all the people in New York there's nothing anywhere else it's really New York is the evilest city in the world because I contend that it isn't I don't think New York is the evilest city in the world in this context that the rich oppressed the poor there are prices you could argue they're far worse or as bad but that that would be just my opinion brother Theodore just dealing with this idea of her being in some place and having a vision there are other places where she does the same things and we associate where she was with what she sees such as the loma linda vision regarding the earthquake and things like that so whether whether it's correct or not it is what is assumed so it is an interpretation but it's just that there is a precedent of doing that I'm happy then it's an assumption we may have other passage but it's not always that case yes Project there's many many times where she says she saw these things whatever they are and when she gets to another country another state another city she's like this is the place that I saw in my vision okay so don't you think about the New York it's not just any but it is anybody so you're sitting in that center of the class so you want to make 13.1 the flashback okay let's go back to that flashback 30.1 what are you flashing back so you so the ring you're doing the flashback if you're in the class yesterday twelve point three thirteen point two it sounds like you're buying into that day is the day of the Lord and now you're flashing back does that seem reasonable to you the way it's written that scene that next path before me is a totally different subject nothing to do with this one you think that's the same way I don't mind making applications I'm asking what she says cuz application is not what she says is it what does application mean forever Stephen so application means what you think not what the author thinks is that it's that fair statement of what you say is that we said how you understand application but no exactly so Joel talks about the dark day doesn't he yeah and Peter says remember what Joel was talking about this is what it is dreams and visions Joel wasn't talking about that was he wasn't he talking about himself his own history or not okay well go with the easier one then Jeremiah when he says the day of the Lord what's he talking about can be talking about many things the first thing he's talking about I think he's talking about the destruction of Jerusalem second and the second thing he may be talk about is about because of probation Daniel Chopra Jeremiah chapter 13 he says whatever I'm talking about looks like war Jake his time of trouble what he stated time of trouble what's he just done brother Gregory what's he just done he's everybody do we need to read the verses over a real kite do you want us to read the verses okay so we'll go to Jeremiah first before we go to Genesis so go to Jeremiah chapter 30 verse 7 alas for that day is great so that none is like it it is even the time of Jacob's trouble but he shall be saved out of it so Jeremiah 30 verse 7 what's he talking about well the Gregory is that day I want to say the application at the end but Jeremiah would be sent talking about that he'd be talking about the literal of his time so would that be destruction of Jerusalem okay so I'd go with that so these these we've used these this this concept here about destructor Jerusalem but we could broaden this out and use it a term I'll suggest the term the captivity so if you think about the captivity it's not talking about it's just a single Erhard event it's a bit before and a bit after so you just encapsulate the whole of that history as the captivity it talks about that day so he's saying what's about to happen is like it is even the time of Jacob's trouble we didn't even say it's like he says he is Jacob's time of trouble but he shall be saved out of it so what's he just doing there he's gone back to Genesis and you want to take us to Genesis chapter so okay we won't even read it it was familiar enough so Genesis chapter 32 Jacob's time of trouble so when Jacob is fighting with this angel is he talking about the destruction of Jerusalem he's saying let me have let me have a fight with the angel because this is about the end of the world he's not doing that this is vicious bat something personal that's going on with him Jeremiah is going to go back into Jacobs history and he's going to say whatever's about to happen now it's a similar experience that Jacob had now it's not the full complete story because you have to work yet then you'd have to go and see or what is Jacob's trouble who is Jacob what's the wrestling all about and then make an application to his time and then other way is going to say okay we're going to get quote Jeremiah and she quotes Genesis as well and she says this is going to happen at the end of the world so you get a story about a man in his personal walk with God as he confronts death that Jeremiah is going to use that history and then we're gonna end up using that history so it gets recycled over and over again that's how I understand applications to meet one it's one of the clearest places do it you can see the New Testament writers do this all the time when they'll take something like a virgin birth in Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14 you know we we we somehow think that that has to be directly a prophecy about the birth of Christ in order for them to do that and so we ignore the actual context in which that occurs and so we need to realize the New Testament writers are always making applications that are not intended by the Old Testament writers one of the okay no I don't wanna go because there are many applications we could do that I was going to go to a New Testament but I think the points been made about applications so if you come back to nineteen thirteen point one if you're going to make this a flashback what you're going to have to do is say the scene that next passed before me is totally out of context in relationship to the time of trouble and you want to do that to preserve 911 or you actually say that that's exactly what she's doing I'm happy with applications you just give a fully into the same ditch I'm happy to make applications but okay if you want to go to Deuteronomy 18 18 who's for talking about who who when he says the law is gonna raise up a prophet like unto me who's that talking about which one you're in a go for to make it both you were gonna make it application because Peters gonna say it's Christ he actually quotes Christ that it's Christ when he does her in Act three but Christ isn't even there in 1818 I mean the increase of knowledge is no he's not there that's talking about John isn't it first a dude I'm happy about what we've always done I'm not trying to argue that or what I'm trying to say is how are you going to reconcile what we what we read yesterday with what we've always done and you're saying we're going to use flashbacks to get us out of this difficult situation I can't say that you're wrong I can't say that you're wrong you know I don't know maybe was a flashback I can't prove that he isn't seems unreasonable to me seemed unreasonable to be I wonder I wanted a small diversion I don't if I can find this I don't like to do something that I'm going to do if I can find him okay I don't like critiquing people's comments or statements when they're not there but I'm gonna do that GC 635 paragraph 1 GC 6 3 5 paragraph 1 just go to chapter 42 well if you're gonna find it's chapter 40 first paragraph but why am i bringing this up sorry sabbath-school because it came up in Sabbath school okay so read the first sentence and everyone says the human laws are the Constitution okay so let's just read that when the protection of human law shall we be drawn from those who honor the law of God there will be in different lands line denied you're not in the United States a simile asantefoo their destruction so there's human laws that protect the lives of people in different lands and simultaneously those protective laws are going to be withdrawn now I'm pretty sure that 99% of the world doesn't have a constitution not the Constitution which is what we was referred to here you can make an application that that's the Constitution but these human laws not the Constitution I would argue because it's because you know we just skipped over because we went to another passage to prove that the constitution of human laws that protect your civil and moral rights which is true but this is a simultaneous thing that's happened across the globe and the Constitution doesn't have that kind of power anywhere except the United States it doesn't doesn't even reach - can either your next-door neighbor so I would argue that this is you know whatever it's the throat is not the Constitution you can make an application of that so I only mentioned that because it's it's you know we can it's so easy to force things into our thoughts and ideas and it's easy to miss things okay so brother Daniel wants to make this a flashback I'm not going to say he's totally wrong I I don't think it is a flashback so assuming it isn't how do we approach this okay brother Daniel says 90 13.1 is a flashback and a flashback to me means he's going to take this and make it a hard 911 quote this is a 911 quote and I'm saying to me it doesn't seem that way it seems to me what's being brought to view here is that these people are having all of these buildings they're oppressing the poor this is a worldwide phenomena and now it's come up and today now they're going to have to pay and she's gonna tell you how they're gonna pay so the scene switches and it says this is how you're going to pay with these plays and then of the next paragraph says I'm instructed that when the Lord's time comes there isn't any change that no earthly power is going to stay the hand of God and no material can be used in the erection of buildings that will preserve them so it seems to me that the last part of 13.2 which says basically when God touches the buildings nothing can stop them the fire engines won't help and it seems to me that 13.2 is the day of the Lord and what's been referred to there is 13.1 that's how I would read that but if you it's a flashback it's a hard 9/11 statement brother James that way to me to prove that it's 9/11 you need more than that so what we do is we don't just say that one paragraphs because we're going to use symbology of 9/11 test miss Church volume 9 begins page 11 so we have various arguments we have another we have some other passages but if this is not safe this is not that say she has the vision in New York and it's a worldwide phenomena safe it's that how do we approach this issue because otherwise we could just pack our bags and say 9/11 was an aberration and we took made it up and it doesn't really mean anything we wind up destroying hope we don't have a movement made no reason to exist which many people are now saying the context of this passage seemed to me the context is there the Lord so how would the context show us that 9/11 is still firm oh okay so my question is how do we maintain 9/11 make an application yeah so I'll give you an example Oh sister Brahman is that what our understanding in 11 it's a great real yet the quote was was used afterwards to say it was to prove 9/11 if proof is maybe not the right word I don't know on what so history with Peaks is that what you so if you're going to go to third woe and you find you the inspiration to do that you pretty stuck think because the third one I think Ellen White which is the wins essentially she's going to shift them to either destruction of nature of political strife and she'll very subtly shifted all the way to here you'd be hard-pressed to drag it further into our history our arguments become quite sophisticated to actually be able to do that like they're done there's more in a sign but there is a video of some Adventist preacher in the late 1990s talking about nine testimonies and saying that the Twin Towers are going to be destroyed you know some people people have made these types of applications even before 9/11 and and we as Adventist do it all the time with all kinds of things that we read in the Bible and the spirit of prophecy so we are always making applications you know the question is are they valid applications okay you almost tempted me today he was not the only person who's prophesied in 911 because other people did it as well I would say I'll get into trouble so let's go to numbers because numbers 24 numbers 24 verse 16 okay but Daniel no no no other age just questions just because the mic pick up that says reason don't like him were boys you smile I thought it was funny numbers 24:15 Balaam's final oracle he took up his parable and said Balaam the son of Beor hath said and the man whose eyes are open hath said he hath said which heard the words of God I knew the knowledge of the Most High which saw the vision of the Almighty falling into a trance but having his eyes open okay before we read on that that's just the preamble what's he toured some what is what's he talking about verse 16 sister Pam what's he talking about in verse 15 paraphrase the verse will pick up some key points right I think they quite hear what you say he's giving a pyramid okay so the first thing is this whatever he's going to talk about is a parable I want us to say that it's a parable where else so he says the man whose eyes are open and who is the man that's I that has his eyes open brain the police he's talking about himself we'll be okay with that he's speaking about yourselves he says my eyes are open and I'm about to give a parable 16 he had said which heard the words of God and knew the knowledge of the Most High which saw the vision of the Almighty falling into a trance but having his eyes open so what's that saying so God's given in this if we call it an open vision then the vision right there and then it's not night vision not going to sleep so this is a day vision so as soon as you start thinking about day visions where might it lead us to because he's making the point this is not a night vision got my eyes wide open while I have in this one just from it okay so night season but why were you picking up that phrase night season oh because it right okay so I can't remember who mentioned this at the beginning of class I think we did when we went to early writings early writings was written when brother Larry or published sister Rachel without looking without looking look where's the Gregory brother Graham 1882 so 1882 it's written for what purpose so this is my spin on this it's not provable this was my suggestion what's its purpose brother James so this is to prepare them for 1888 there are a number of key dates here but the one we want to pick up is 1884 and we've got 1844 and I'm sure we did do this because this is Portland and this is Portland Maine and Oregon and this is 40 years and this 40 years is Ellen White's open visions with their eyes open if you like and then she only has night visions so I'm suggesting without even going to all that any details for him to make this point which is really an irrelevant point and he what's this takes two verses just to tell you that he had his eyes open when he's having this vision then we mean what difference would it make numbers 24:17 I shall see him but not now I shall behold him but not nigh there shall come a star out of Jacob and the scepter shall rise out of Israel and shall smite the corners of Moab and destroy all the children of Seth and then it then it goes on what's he's talking about sister Sue Ellen right okay so we'll walk through it together because I don't know very well either so we'll go through it together you're in numbers 24:17 yes verse 15 and 16 Balaam is having this vision and this vision this trance that he's having is while he's awake you actually with all of that he's going to explain the vision that God gave him using what methodology what technique will he use to explain the vision in verse 15 parable so he's going to explain this vision using parables now again we're not a new I'm not going to go into you know what that would mean or the implications of that but simply stated what are parables prophecies had a number of different answers stories the stories that teach lessons prophecies so there's stories that teach lessons you have a story that teaches you a lesson that must mean what the story came before whatever you want to give the lesson about because otherwise it wouldn't have been any good you had to have something happened before to help you to learn this lesson so as soon as we start thinking about parables in the framework of stories then we're saying you had your story and then what do you have after the story what do you have after the story you said the story teaches you a lesson so you can add the lesson so we parallel them the story teaches you a lesson so when we say prophecy how can we say parables or prophecies how does that work brother Bob because I thought a prophecy was a delineation of events look here's a prophecy so how'd you get parables to be prophecy explain that logic it is prophetic because it's talking about some few it is talking about a future event or a future events so you've got a parable or you're gonna call it a story okay so there's the story and you're going to turn parable into prophesies how we're going to do that and in certain language you have you have to make an application of it how does it apply to something that is gonna happen in the future you go do that in the framework of you said prophesy because you're leaning heavily upon what was said a moment ago about stories and lessons but you said parable is prophecy so you need to answer in the framework of that I'm not trying to say you're wrong I just want you know if we make it if we make her what I want to say is a radical statement the parables equal prophecy because that's what you said I'm just saying you explained that because we say it sometimes we've started to say it more and more we never would say that before we just say parables --is if you read that original definition that we had but we've shifted to say actually parables equals prophecy people hear it so I want to make sure that just having some kind of simple explanation of how we come up with that story is symbolic of events take place in the future they symbolically baits that are going to take place in the future yeah who else said it's prophecy say I didn't catch that okay anyone else to repeat history piece is prophecy how'd you get that so the past is prophesy what's going to happen in the future yeah we okay with that kind content so I'll just read one this is 17 Mr 1.3 17 Mr 1.3 and if you prefer its second selected messages 102 same passage so collecting message 102 and we now say if you prefer he's because he's the passage that brother Daniel took us to wasn't it wasn't page 102 it's a bit further down think it's 105 remember that he took us two seconds dictum issues 105 I think anyway it doesn't matter so the passage with every day 17 ml 1.3 1.3 I'm just going to it begins there are dough's now living so I'm going to cut into the paragraph it says historical events showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy were set before the people and the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of events leading down to the close of this Earth's history the scenes connected with the working of the man has sinned are the last features revealed in this Earth's history who wants to have a go at that what does that two sentences mean these two sentences historical events showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy were set before the people the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation the events leading down to the close of this Earth's history seems connected with the working of the man of sin are the last features revealed in this Earth's history so as I'll start that is an inspired statement of what two or three of you already said a moment ago whether it was what brother Daniel said sister Bronwyn it seemed to me that's what you were saying for a Reaper someone wants to just walk us through this passage first sentence well Volare you have a go okay so I'm just going to say history so you've got some history which is in the past here's the story okay history when you say that okay what does that mean because you just said it means us okay what does that mean showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy sighs in the past what was the event historical event 1216 was prophesized is that what that first part is saying okay so it says there was historically been this one here I've got two events a and B they were historical events and those events were the direct fulfillment of prophecy so you say okay carry on what does that mean anyone else okay so when is that when is it being set before the people sorry okay so ring exactly before or after the evade brother Gregory you mean midway between aim bitch some things have been fulfilled but not everything has been I just got historically base so I picked up more than one yvaine story cleveite showing the director rumor prophecy was set before the people so I went ways are set before people in relationship to a and B so ways is set before the people which type of wish I put the word set is one event I've got two events so it's here so we can now go to define prophecy as being what not something that's future when I say prophecy in this definition has to begin in the past so these historical events that were seen to be fulfillment of prophecy and now being set before the people here why saying that why you setting them before the people here what's the purpose of it prudent they were predicted so what while we're going to do that so our focus is not on history we don't care about history history is a tool because we want to I just put a single event we're focusing on this one and if you want to prove that this is route right you have to set before the people some kind of evidence and the evidence that you have is that these historical events one and two worth fulfillments of prophecy and once you can demonstrate that and you're going to set before the people here then you go on to prove this Doric Lee been showing the directional prophecy was set before the people and the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of events leading down to close to the Earth's history brother Larry we're at and the prophecy was seen so what we're gonna do with that how many prophecies is that he says singular prophecy this is one prophecy it's got multiple events but it's one prophecy so this is not line upon line swords to see that so here you've got the prophecy it's going to lead you all the way down it's one prophecy what does that mean what is figurative delineation me okay so you gave us some dates so I'll give I remember what dates you do - I'll give I'll give you the example so if that's 538 what's the figure I'd say a figure not there because it's couple of them give me a figure the paper Rome is not a figure paper Romy's you've read it and everyone knows what paper only it's the real thing what's the figure beast we'll put a beast man have seen a horn so prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of a historical event you got a struggle event here and you're not going to say the Ostrogoths were taken down you're gonna say a horn his plucked up that's the figurative he's that's the figure of the historically vain it leads down to the close of this Earth's history where's that here the scenes connected with the working of the man of sin the last features revealed in this Earth's history so what she's doing here she's taking this singular prophecy here and she's gonna show us that prophecy is not if you live here you're predicting the future the only way you can predict the future is if you start in the past without that you have no evidence or anything so it's based upon this idea of this singular prophecy that runs all the way through you have to build you have to get some other spirit of prophecy quotes to develop this and then what we end up doing with then what we do is we start cutting this line up in various places to get line upon line which is parable teaching okay okay we won't do it well go we'll go to numbers 24:17 this afternoon we'll have a look at that I want to suggest that when we come to nine eleven ninety page eleven and onward that maybe our approach might be different there may be flashbacks are not the way to go neither that she's directly talking about 9/11 in those passages but there are hints and clues that we can make an application through okay with that kind of terminology but I want to give an example we're going to use the story of Balaam to do that let's pray Heavenly Father we give you praise and thanks to your goodness and mercy Lord as you teach us as we review things that we've learned in our class lord help us to use and exploit the mental faculties that you have given to us the structure of our humanity so that these things can be retained in our hearts as well as our minds and that they can become useful to us it's in this way that third angel's message can become an abiding influence upon us we ask for your continued guidance this day for your protection we ask for a blessing upon the food all these things we pray for in Jesus's name Amen