(09-14-18) Afternoon - First Angel's Message - (CzzfzuBPg2s)

Overview

Video

Details

Publish Date: 9/16/2018
Speaker Name:
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-14-18) Afternoon - First Angel's Message-CzzfzuBPg2s
YouTube ID: CzzfzuBPg2s

References

Downloads

Download Video File
Download Audio File
Download Handout/Notes

Transcription

oh man great controversy we've gone from GC 310 paragraph 1 to G C 311 paragraph 1 that whole page has begun to use slightly different language than earlier in this chapter and if you were to drop back to 310 paragraph 1 first sentence cutting halfway into the sentence they should be roused to prepare for the solemn events connected with the close of probation so above and beyond the signs that we're talking about now that there are events connected with the close of probation and then she lists out a number of prophets they're all listed on the board there Joel Habakkuk Hosea through Hosea Zephaniah Isaiah Jeremiah and all of these prophets are dealing with the subject here that she's called the close of probation hopefully were ok with that if you go back into all of the passage that we read here they're all dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem or as shown in the line just above that the day of the Lord describes you stare the Lord in different ways that there's Lord's vengeance is one that sort of comes up over and over again but it's really the destruction of Jerusalem if you go back to each one of these passages that's where it's dealing with that's 3/10 paragraph one paragraph two and paragraph three so they're rather they have troubled they have distressed they embraced this that's how it's describing this day and this is what she's going to call here the close of probation then we get to three eleven paragraph one in view of that great day the Word of God in the most solemn and impressive language calls upon his people to arouse on their spiritual lethargy and to seek his face with repentance and humiliation so in her own words she calls it that great day she's quoting all these Bible prophets she's about to quote Joel chapter 2 below that and as I saying three ten paragraph ones just called it the close of probation then we get to three eleven paragraph two to a pair of people to stand in the day of God a great work of reform was to be accomplished God saw that many of his professed people were not building for eternity in the in his mercy it was about to send a message of warning to arouse them from this super to lead them to make ready for the coming of the Lord so we've discussed this paragraph at some length this is a summary of the one two three the four paragraphs that we've just read it's called the day of the Lord is connected to the close of probation first time she's used that phrase in this chapter then she says to prepare of people to stand in that day there the Lord their God a worker reform must be accomplished beforehand and to do that he's going to send them a message of warning you'll notice it says about to send them so this is pre 1798 this is the first angels message that it's dealing with and then she ends the passage by saying to make ready for the coming of the Lord and I'm suggesting that when it says to make ready at the end of that paragraph it's the same as to prepare the beginning of the paragraph so it's to prepare for the day of God and is to make ready for the coming of the Lord and I'm saying that the day of God is the coming of the Lord anybody got any differing views to that or is that relatively straightforward we agree that reasonable so this day of the Lord that's been spoken of here is the coming of the Lord I'm just gonna put his coming now she's got to qualify exactly what that means when she introduced in three term paragraph one where she says they should be aroused to prepare for the solemn events connected with the close of probation so there's some events that are connected with the toes of privation close of probation then she goes on to say the prophet of the Lord declares the great day of the Lord is great exertion she's talking about the day of the Lord here which is the close of probation and there are solemn events that are going to be connected with that and that's what she's going to begin to introduce in 3:11 paragraph two with this warning message so I gave you a handout this morning called the day of the Lord there are spare copies by the door if you haven't got one maybe someone could pass one to brother Jim I don't think they've got one it's just in the back seat there so this is just there's a retinas over 400 hits if you were to type in let me show you what I typed in if you just typed in the day of the Lord in quotation marks you get 419 this on the CD version that I've got and I just went through them systematically all I've given you is 1 2 3 4 5 I'm giving you 7 and all I've done we read this this morning we just just summarizing the game for each little paragraph it tells you what that paragraph is teaching you that the day of the Lord is first one the day of the Lord is the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven the next one the day of the Lord is Christ's return the next one that they are the lawn is the floods the day of the Lord is the time of trouble the day of the Lord is a battle there's Lolly's a second coming and last one is that there the Lord are the plagues so when you begin to build up that picture what I'm suggesting is based upon my reading of that is that is a period of time which is a day and this is the day of the Lord and if you if you look at these very end passages and also just read the the text that we discussed this is the destruction of Jerusalem and this is the second coming now perhaps that's cutting some corners because we already have a structure laid out using different Bible passages all from the great controversy we can pick this all from the great controversy we don't have to find it anywhere else and I specifically gone to chapter 1 of the great controversy it's called the destruction of Jerusalem if you go back to that chapter she's going to line up the destruction of Jerusalem with what event destruction of the world so maybe someone could find that don't have it to hand GC 22.1 dc2 sir AGC 22.1 if you don't have a copy of the great controversy put your hand up we've got some hard copies flying around if you prefer to use the book format just put your hand up or the Larry will get you one I've got three copy somewhere yeah okay Chrysler in Jerusalem a symbol of the world hardened the number leaf and rebellion in hastening on to meet the retributive judgments of God the retributive judgments have gone a watt that's right the plagues we okay with that these are the seven last plagues the rose on of a fallen race pressing upon Isolde forced from his lips and exceeding bitter cry he saw the record of sin tracing human misery tears and blood his heart was moved with infinite pity for the afflicted and suffering ones of earth he yearned to relieve them all but even his hand might not turn back the tide of human woe if you would seek their only source of help he was willing to pour out his soul unto death to bring salvation within their reach but few would come to him that they might have life just with next paragraph the mercy of heaven in tears the son of where in GC 22.2 the majesty of heaven in tears the son of the infinite God troubled in spirit bowed down with anguish the scene filled all heaven with wonder that scene reveals to us the exceeding sinfulness of sin excelled at asking is even for infinite power to save the guilty from the consequences of transgressing the law of God Jesus looked down to the last generation saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which calls the destruction of Jerusalem the great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God the foundation of his government in heaven and earth The Presets love Jehovah would be despised and said at naught millions in bondage to sin slaves of Satan doomed to suffer the second death would refuse to listen to the words of truth in their day visitation terrible blindness strange infatuation just to make sure there's no other passages in that chapter one yep GC 36.2 GC 36.2 for those who've just come we're looking at the day of the Lord this is GC 311 page 10 to 11 so that's 3:10 to 311 and it's talking about the second coming but it's now talking it in the talking about the framework of the day of the Lord the day of the Lord is his coming and it's discussed in the framework of one two three four five d7 Old Testament prophets and they're all dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem and there's a handout just by the door if you see it's got seven spirit prophecy quotes and all of them are dealing with the day of the Lord and each paragraph tells you what the day of the Lord is so paragraph 1 the day of the Lord is the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven paragraph 2 the day of the Lord is Christ's return paragraph 3 the flood and if we went to first one on the second page the tights the day of the Lord is a time of trouble so and the white uses this day of the Lord when you go to 3:10 it's also in connection with the close of probation so I've just set a little line up here I've got the destruction of Jerusalem this is the day of the Lord it's a period of time and I've bookended it with the destruction of Jerusalem in the second coming and if we were to put in those little subtitles I would say that this would be the time of trouble we would call it Jacob's time of trouble Ellen White would call it jokers time of trouble we've got the second coming then the last one is the plagues Jacob's time of trouble or the seven plagues and part of the evidence for that we have taken all these Old Testament prophets saying spoken about the destruction of Jerusalem and we've already discussed so you can go back and watch the classes if you didn't pick this up that Hosea is talking about the destruction of Samaria the destruction of Samaria is parallel in the destruction of Jerusalem and how did we make that parallel what was the license to make that parallel brother Larry between Samaria and Jerusalem because they're Jews can't hear you sorry little bit more than that okay go to Hosea 1:1 maybe that will make your memory a little bit the word the Lord that came unto her Hosea the son of B right in the days of uzziah jotham ahaz and hezekiah kings of Judah in the days of Jeroboam the son of joash king of Israel Hosea's listing out for Judean kings take enough of her then we prick little bit more since the Cathy look at that sorry again even if we stop he was saying that to them that what happened to Samaria will happen to you the destruction of scenario okay that's um jawohl how's that kind of does that but we didn't go into that if he did know bit more with the four kings think about the four kings okay Isaiah and Hosea she gate was there one one who there one one okay so we've got seven Kings in Israel and we've got four kings in Judah yep go to another history so by the time we get to the end of this line here the ten tribes have been swept away so all we've got left of the southern tribes and it goes from Manasseh to Zedekiah which is seven kings and we pick up how many kings four of them Manasseh Kim kin and Zedekiah so you've got seven kings and four kings and that was the logic that we said the destruction of Jerusalem here and the destruction of Samaria here so we've parallel in the destruction of Samaria with the destruction of Jerusalem just through the structure of these kings we know the number four gives us a symbol of progressive destruction now we can think of for generations four kings the 2520 which comes four times leviticus 20:6 increasing intensity of pain like like what this is the test like a woman in travail birth pains increasing intensity so that's that's that was part of the logic for saying that Samaria and Jerusalem can parallel one another 36.2 GC 36.2 mercedes prophesy concerning the visitations of judgment upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment of which that terrible decimation was for the faint shadow faint shadows type in the fate of the chosen City we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon his law dark are the records of human misery that earth is witnessed during its long centuries of crime the heart sickens and the mind grows faint in contemplation terrible has been the results of rejecting the authority of heaven but as seen yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future the records of the past long procession of to moult's conflicts and revelation revolutions the battle of the warrior with confused noise and garments rolled in blood what are these in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked no longer to holding check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath the world will then behold as never before the results of Satan's rule and that is when it's right close the probation cease jacob's timers trouble but in that day is in the time of Jerusalem's destruction God's people will be delivered every one that shall be found written among the living I was here for three Christ has declared that he will come the second time to gather his faithful once to himself then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds for one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24 30 31 so she's usually Matthew 24 clouds of heaven as revelation 1:1 7 not Daniel 7:13 that's the application that she's making so for us to make it anything but that we have to not trying to say we're wrong but we have to know how and why we're doing that and we've discussed that at least briefly we'll discuss it more when we get to further portion in the great controversy so you can see here she's joined together this destruction of Jerusalem with the second advent can we see the indecently paragraphs thirty-six point two thirty seven point two thirty six point two thirty three thirty seven point one okay so I think that's what I want to say about that that's exactly that diagram that I've had there which is exactly that I think the model that she's given to us in the great controversy from page 310 to 311 is anybody not okay or do they need some explaining further she's the test so depends on public context yes that's how she seems to be using it in in great controversy chapter one she it's not it she's just says the day of the Lord contains up these I guess these events yes we would be going into detail to do that she's just giving a you know a brief overview she's turning them into essentially a single appoint but we end up going into a lot of detail and I guess that's what perhaps behind your question how we would process that day where you've got the beginnings of the day or the end of the day she doesn't seem to do any of that she just says it's just a day which is what you said earlier I'll read the passage so that if you agree with this understanding 310 paragraph 1 it was needful that men should be awakened to their danger that they should be aroused to prepare for the solemn events connecting with the close of probation the Prophet declares of God the day of the Lord is great and very terrible who can abide it so I'm open to seeing other people read it differently but I'm reading that the solemn events not the close of probation they're the ones that are connected with the close of probation and the close of probation is the day of the Lord and just as much as those plagues are yeah she seems to just in 3/10 paragraph 1 she uses this phrase close of probation doesn't really define it well and then she just jumped straight into quoting I think six prophets here the next paragraph quotes the seventh prophet and every single one of them is dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem all seven of them when you look back at each of those stories and that seems to be what she's talking about when she says the close of probation the destruction of Jerusalem now that obviously typology but when you go back to chapter 1 she says that this destruction of Jerusalem typifies the destruction of the world and the destruction of the world which she talks about the time of trouble is Jacob's time of trouble of the seven plagues that is what she's going to define as the day of the Lord and then when she comes to 311 paragraph 2 it says to prepare a people to stand in the day of God and she's just defined what the day of God is this time of destruction when Jerusalem is going to be destroyed a worker Reforma needs to be accomplished beforehand because people were not ready so he sends them a message of warning to wake them up and to lead them to make ready for the I mean of the day of the Lord so then she switches back to the phrasing that she had it the beginning of the chapter which he's the second coming or the coming in the clouds of heaven and she did the same thing is it page 36 we just read thirty-six point two thirty seven point one she went talking about the destruction of Jerusalem which is destruction of the world which then brings you to the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven she quotes Matthew 24 30 and 31 I think it is so she just seems to label what I've put a three separate events there destruction of Jerusalem Jacobs time of trouble and second coming all as the day of the Lord without missing the step that's how she seems to be doing it I'm just trying to be guided by her use of the terms not how we would use them because the way we would use them may be slightly different we're going to go into detail so when you say that she's talking about a point or a period of time the way she seems to just refer to it here it's just a point in time destruction of Jerusalem destruction of the world second coming the og seems to be just a singular point now if you were to go to Matthew 24 verse 29 that's the 24:29 immediately arts of tribulation of those days the Sun will be darkened the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken so we've discussed this this is the signs verse 30 and then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other and the way she's explaining that it's the second Advent the angels come and resurrect the dead and raise up to heaven the people who still alive and so she doesn't even really deal with time of trouble sorry Jesus doesn't hear does it really specifically address the destruction of Jerusalem the plagues or anything he just skips from verse 29 straight into 1331 it doesn't really deal with the details or the intricacies in the way that we would in the way that she's going to in the later chapters to all the end of the book chapter 38 39 40 time of trouble the loud cry she's not going into any of those details 3:11 paragraph 3 this warning is brought to you in Revelation 14 here is a three-fold message represented as proclaimed by heavenly beings immediately followed by the coming of the Son of man to reap the harvest of the earth so when we go back to the paragraph before he was about to send the message of warning to arouse them from their stupor and to lead them to make ready for the coming of the Lord so this warning message he's going to define in this paragraph he's it's obviously having read it now it's not just the first angels message it's all three angels messages you can see that this warning is brought to you in Revelation 14 here is a three-fold message for a second third angels messages as proclaimed by heavenly beings in the plural three angels and immediately followed by the coming of the Son of Man to reap the harvest of the earth I think this is verse 13 and onwards from verse 13 onwards actually doesn't really say in verse 13 from verse 14 14 14 I looked and behold a white cloud and upon the cloud one sat like the son of man having on his head a golden crown and in his hand a sharp sickle so this sickle is brought to view here in the 1850 chart it's right here revelation 14 14 part of the third angels message there's some details which talk about other angels having sickles as well so this first part of the paragraph is a three-fold message and it's immediately followed by the coming of the Son of Man to reap the harvest of the earth the first of these warnings announces the approaching judgment the Prophet beheld an angel flying in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth gonna quote the first angels message basically verses 6 & 7 so the warning message is a three-fold warning it's not just the first angel as we had initially suspected begins in 1798 we've already discussed this this is the first of these warnings announces the approaching judgment we okay with that so if we go to Revelation 46 and 70s in front of you in the great controversy there says fear God give glory to him for the hour of his judgment is come that's given in 1798 and so the phrase his judgment is come is referring to what event what event is that anybody disagree or have any questions on that sister Kathy the hour of his judgment is come let's just given in 1798 is that 1844 we haven't defined what that is yet but you agree that it's 1844 from James could you repeat your question for me but the hour of this judgment is come what's that talking about the judgment has been referred to there our sisters have said it's referring to 1844 he's referring to the start of the judgement period and I was wondering if capturing of the Pope would be assigned Venice in 79 tell me the summary of what you've just said what's that statement pointing to the phrase the hour of his judgment is come judgment is beginning for his people so I'm gonna put a J here is that what you're saying my sisters I said the J's there mr. Romney just tell me the answer not why yeah you tell me what your answer is not why your answer is that you're not going to give me an answer first angels message contains all three components you don't you not gonna tell me where to put as Jane is that because you don't know or every wonder I'm afraid one second I'm afraid as well but I still have to put something down worst that could happen is you could be wrong it's ruled among friends here if you want to put J there okay no III mean you put J down after your reason in a minute why just want to see what why look how many different answers sister Andrea sister Tess sister Elissa brother James that's right up brother Greg Stevens so brother Bob quickly any pretty cool it's the Madison so what I want to us to want to think about is this is one of the primary I don't know what to call it raid marks or events or things that we should really understand three angels messages and in a class that's relatively small in the movement at the end of the world we're still juggling with what this judgment has been referred to really as if it's here or here I wants to think about why there were people not and just want to finish my point so I did say I did say I want to get people's opinions first because I don't want to know why people give me the answer I'll give you an opportunity but I wanna I wanted to get a feel for what people are thinking I want to get a feel of why people are coming up with different answers I want people to think about why they're coming up with different answers because I sit with people and we shouldn't we shouldn't be coming up with different answers this late in our reform life so now I want to ask each other now I want to ask why we're coming up with these different answers now that know we have got different answers so why are you saying October for you first have the warning and then you have the event I wasn't asking for warnings I asked the hour of his judgment is come I said tell me where to put judgment I didn't ask where to put a warning that's what you said so why you put in 1844 third sentence down the first of these warnings announces the approaching judgment it's not that easy so sister text it says I presume you agree the warnings coming here it says the approaching judgment approaching to all of these people even though I didn't ask the last two for two people gave their up is proteomics hasn't come yet so why are you placing judgment here he's approaching it's a nice point I made a point that you can you can tuck in revelation 18 here doesn't mean that's what's being written and that's what's being spoken approaching judgment is not present tense its future you're taking your interpretation of the verse your understanding of the use of the English language in opposition to write an opposition to okay in opposition to my so I want this to each realize when we do that on what basis did we go get us the spirit of prophecy quote and just sort of rip it apart and you say whoops stick it here because of whatever reason we're going to do that because we like it basically or we have some preconceived ideas or someone taught us or we heard it somewhere whatever it is because he's a relatively straightforward passage I think and more than that it says contextually even if you didn't have the approaching judgment even if it was not there it says in the paragraph before took a pair of people to stand there not fit to stand in judgment here are they how could they come in to judge me they're not even ready to do to the standard they'd all failed it'll flunk the taste brother Larry brother Daniel and in sister Romney I can't hear you sorry but you don't know any of that here okay we do not know its what did you say 30 yeah you don't know that do you how do you know that okay if we're gonna do that you telling me this is judgment this is the investigative judgment destroying Jerusalem because that's what that's what we've just been talking about in those paragraphs before it's not the investigative judgment just contextually just reading it but you have to go to external sources to pull that concept in and a lot more information than that I would suggest brother Daniel the verse says the hour of the judgement arrived it's come and so I assess the approaching judgment we have the day being was approbation second coming our 78-84 that's one hour I'm trying to organize them all and just tell me how you get used to be one hour I don't know if I can explain myself and not say make sense I can't see how can I continue can't even know I do nothing now I didn't do anything I guess I did you rode your board I know I just write what I call Ellen White say yeah and if you agree with that I'm just trying to harmonize the way you want to put judgment so the Bible says arrived mo it says is approaching judgment so lol so the Bible said well it's come what is go all right the hour of the judgment okay you think it means that but she says he doesn't now you're trying to your Toronto harbour noise your understanding of is calm with what Ellen White says yeah I think okay I've seen you hide you I'm saying you think it does but Ellen White says he doesn't he told you what it means okay I think grammar won't help you in this situation this is the Bromley because we know a Verizon 1798 what arrives in 1798 okay everyone agrees that the message arrives in 1798 they were okay with that and when he comes he says walk there God gave him glory for the hour of his judgment is come all three components that sounds like to me judgment is come back away from dividing it into the three sections dear glory judgment okay we're not even dealt with the fear or the glory we're just talking the way just taking one of them the judgment so if we agree we didn't agree fifty percent of people who didn't agree with that so why are you saying 1798 their pasta quote it says the first of these warnings announces first angels message because it says this warning box of you this one wants to do in Revelation 14 is what we hear is a three-fold message first second and third angels message it's not the three components of the first angel because it says heavenly beings plural and immediately followed by the second so by the coming of the Son of Man so without putting any dates on we've got one two three and then you've got the second coming that's why I understand Shih Tzu saying there and then she says the first of these warnings announces the approaching judgment so the first warning is the first angels message says the judgement is approaching and that first angels message comes in 1798 and when he comes he says the judgment is about to come not here yet so how do you understand the sentence the first angels message announces the approaching judgment right okay so if you want to make it 79 yet what is the judgment in 1798 that you want to pick up so when you take judgment you're going to judge someone what you're going to judge them on so you're going to start judging people here because the passage doesn't teach any of that you've created that so you disagree with brother Larry when he says he's talking about the the Day of Atonement and here that's right well you do because it's Derrick Thomas he's here well the judgment doesn't everyone agrees with that the first angel comes in 1798 and when he comes he says three things and one of the things he says is the judgment is approaching it's nearly here that's her paraphrase of that verse brother Theodore when we're dealing with the Bible with tenses we have to be very careful because they don't use tenses in the way that we do so you have a translation they have to put it into a tense John is writing he's Jewish they have two tenths is complete and incomplete they don't mean future and past like they do to us and so people take that that hour of his judgment has come and they think it means it has comments already here but it's not what it means it's just an expression - of completeness and it's usually used that something is certain to happen so it's actually talking about something in the future tense in if we were to put it into English strictly how do you know it's not talking about something that's present tense because they don't have o present tense present tense they would use they don't have present tense they only have future so Wi-Fi sayed or they only have it's a good day today no it's gonna be a good say tomorrow they can't say that so they call they call portray something happening right now no they can't because they only have completed ink they can but they only have two tenses to do that complete or incomplete they don't have the part I thought that it depends on the context okay so that's what you have to look at so that's what my question was when you take this the statement itself is come could mean it's right here or it could mean it's about to come yes you can't read that into that statement right so I got that so my question was how do you know in this context what it's referring to how do you know it means about to come not has come because you can't get it from the words if they're gonna because actually the tense in in that sentence is not the present it actually says as come so it's actually the completed tense so it's not even the present tense if you read it in the Greek and how would you know because if something's written in the completed tense that just means it's certain you would have no way of knowing other than the context that it's talking about something that's future or past and you would you wouldn't have a present tense they just don't have a present tense and that's the problem is people read a translation of Hebrew or Greek and then they think they know what it means but often you can't translate tenses especially if it's a Hebrew writer okay so I got that point and the co Brielle's has got that oh you're gonna know how you gonna know white quote right the other way great the heaven white guy anyway you guys own arrows okay so she must know by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit okay talking about an approaching event not an event that's there and has already begun so you're gonna say she knows because the Holy Spirit led her to that how did the Millerites know because the Millerites know the same thing that she knows what is they know that they're getting a warning message about something that's gonna happen in the future so they know based on the time prophecies it hasn't happened yet whatever that event is okay so you don't need the spirit you don't need the Holy Spirit like a prophet because that was your defense you don't need that no you don't because they're using other things they're not just using that statement other things other things in the Bible so they're using the Bible to contextualize this they're not using inspiration for the Bible is inspirations no they're not using inspiration like you just said otherwise easy way to do it I'm just explaining the easy way yeah but I'm clarifying do you use that argument can't work for us because that means we wouldn't know yeah because we couldn't work it out we could work out this one because we've got an SOP quote but for another one with that we don't have an SOP quote for that means we wouldn't be able to work that you have to be able to work it out and outside of inspiration direct inspiration if we use them we're gonna come to the same conclusion as that and then they didn't believe that they were already being judged they believed that judgment was in the future based upon the time prophecies the Pope I heard you say something oh is this someone else that's what I heard your voice no whoo whoo speaking holy man's voice whose voice was it it was I knew it was you said angels who are guiding their minds or something like that what does that mean could they've made mistakes except tell them why but you gotta listen or you choose the wrong angel person two kinds of angels down you chapter ten she's right angel we're locate with that angel regarding their minds to direct them to the right Bible passages the right chronologies Rover Daniel oh yes yes I'm not trying to deny that the only point I was trying to make is where brother Theodore said Alan White's got it correct because the Holy Spirit's director who sees a prophet I'm saying that works rather than white but the Millerites came to the same conclusion that they didn't have the Holy Spirit like she does they didn't have any visions or dreams when she writes this is the inspired Word of God when Miller White's it's not the inspired Word of God and they're all saying the same thing as Ellen White is or only whites insane people say you binoy in the same way they're not prophets like she's yeah but she could have done this without studying inspiration I don't know how she came up with this when she was in the womb because there's a lot of people taking care of that little girl how does she know which ones her mother because she knows that the mother's voice from same way same way watts same way all these people recognize the voice of God when that angels were instructing Miller and not the same way other than white gets it and the white gets bowrekt information from the Holy Spirit she's a prophet and there is not a prophet to that same degree they may know the same voice but they're not receiving instruction from God in the same way we agree on that I hope other white doesn't know that didn't happen she wasn't even born when all this was working its way out they had no prophets to guide them it was just hard work I agree angels were guiding them early writings 200-something says that they've been led by the Holy Spirit of course because these are angels this movement is being symbolized by an angel don't disagree with that but they don't have direct inspiration like Ellen White does that's that was the only point I was making they had to work out that this was a future event based upon their study of the word of God not based upon the fact that their prophets like Ellen White is so straight if if Miller had said the arrow these judgment is car means it's going to be in the future we'd say maybe is right maybe is wrong we wouldn't agree with him wholeheartedly I'm not arguing that I don't think we're told he was a prophet actually with accepted we're gonna call him Elijah as a prophet I agree on that basis but they're not prophets in the same degree that other than white was because there's degrees of prophets when we get to that and hopefully we will do in chapter 19 should explain the nature and subject of prophets and how they operate the degrees of prophets because let me ask you a question are you a prophet not yet when will you be one degree this is the school of the prophets do you agree teach the teachers or prophets and who are they teaching training up to be what prophets so that's why you I guess you said you're not just profit yet because you're still in training cuz they're coming to school so I'm not trying to be prestigious in any of that but the schools as a prophets were set up because those types of prophets are not the same types of prophets as Ellen White is they they're different and we know Elijah sets up these schools and he's a prophet of that highest order but there are many teachers after him and they weren't prophets in the same degree that he was they were just regular men called prophets because they teachers don't digress on the subject of prophets you're saying if I don't believe what I'm saying did I say that in a sense that's what your inferred because you said I do agree with that point yes if you pick that up I agree with it it's like I totally agree with that I hope all of us do you have to preach the gospel that say dude they set the gospel that saves others is the gospel that saved you otherwise it doesn't it has no power to it if he hasn't done it if this message doesn't done anything for you and changed your life you can preach it but it doesn't have much power to it okay so sorry thanks it's talking about this judgment here if you want to start creating lines and start playing with this and start bringing the judgment back here we could do that but you have to know what license we're doing that know what gives us the authority to move this judgment back to here and what does it mean even if we do that so I'm not saying in our line here at the time at the end in 1989 a work of judgment begins for those who are alive but you can't get that from this statement and you have to jump through a number of Hoops to be able to get that information and make it work but you certainly can't do it from the way that Ellen White is describing here you really have to dig into her writings to do that work any questions next paragraph this message you sleep is declared to be a part of the everlasting gospel the work of preaching the gospel has not been committed to angels but has been entrusted to men holy angels have been employed in directing this work they have in charged the great movements of an excavation of men but the actual proclamation of the gospel is performed by the servants of Christ upon the earth any comments on that paragraph did you speak a little bit louder because he doesn't get picked up on the mic well are you sure about that okay let me ask you a question then what message did God want John the Baptist to give to those people God directed John to his father he actually gave him his job description and he said go talk to these people what was John supposed to tell them is that why because they needed to prepare for Christ so the so his job was to get people ready to accept Christ what kind of Christ was he supposed to get people ready for what kind of a Messiah did he do that he didn't even believe in that kind of a Christ he believed one that was a warrior king you know that I'm not worried about the people because the people isn't aren't his servant Johnnie's and you did say and this you say exactly what God told you to do you're not his servant and John the Baptist is not telling the people what God had told him to say to them because God had said you tell them a Lambs about to come and to die and he didn't tell his disciples there and his disciples had warped thinking because they were instructed incorrectly by their own teacher and he was supposed to be the greatest prophet that's ever lived and he didn't do his job well second time afterwards he had started studying things a bit more but even then he still wavers but the disciples training had ceased by then by the end of the forty they ruled in this training Jesus come back and they're going to switch over to Christ so their training is complete and they've been incorrectly trained by that man to expect to worry a king and he's still the greatest servant that God has ever had on this planet that's that's straight for out of Jesus his testimony and he doesn't do his job properly you can go to the Miller right line it's the same just the fact that someone makes mistakes gives an incorrect message through their own defective reasoning doesn't mean that make them less of a servant than if they did their job a hundred percent faithfully and John's got no excuse for doing what he did his parents took him in the wilderness he had independent schooling and he stilled imbibes the forced theology of his generation and he had all the scriptures before him specially trained to do that work and he makes this huge mistake and he still the greatest servant so even if we make mistakes I say probably wanted to bring up English make mistakes you can still be this great person and that's private part of the problem that we have in our movement because we've blundered over so many things and we're still being called to be part of 144,000 even with all of our faults and failings and I don't mean moral ones I mean just in the message that we give Millerites have the same issues God gives them a message and they just say we won't give that message will give another one and we'll read that as we get as we go on in our class that they make huge mistakes and those huge mistakes that they make cost people their lives this whole middle right movement 46 years of I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent you know in you know in our church they do this cost-benefit analysis they say we'll do an evangelistic series going to cost forty thousand dollars and you and when we say daddy save two people that's twenty thousand dollars a person this church is in open apostasy 46 years of work and all they could manage to get was 50 people saved on any metric that's a failure isn't it and I would suggest based upon my reading than what people think that failure happens because they don't understand the message correctly and they and they give it in the wrong way the whole message is mixed up it's not the message that God gave them they end up inventing a message of their own devising and it costs Sony people their lives and that's the warning that we have in our movement today carry on making mistakes people won't survive and you know when we talk about 50 people we weep race that criminality or the 50 only could survive under people I'm saying we should proportion the blame where it's due upon the Miller right movement they're the ones that should be held accountable for giving the wrong message so people can't even adequately prepare to the events we're the ones who are who are under in trouble we've got a whole heap of Levites that come before us we're hard upon to midnight and we don't even did so many things we don't know that we should have known by now I agree with that so in that sense it divided if I started teaching Eric even though they were wrong about some things it was showing the character Wi-Fi teaching error because they do and I'm saying I'm the representative the movement by the way and you got listen to what I say even though it's error then it's going to show your heart it becomes a struggle we're thinking people say that doesn't sound quite right to me so I'm not sure about can fully buy into it we used to we never have that narrative about the middle-right history you always blame the people we don't blame the teachers we don't blame the movement everyone and I agree with you you know what you said is not your own words you're quoting inspiration when you say that and I agree with that it shows the people's hearts when that when these things happen but the Miller writes make huge mistakes that God doesn't take responsibility for you have to blame them for that and we're if we're not careful we're liable to do the same thing okay so let's go back to our passage that wouldn't mean to preach so 3:12 paragraph 1 this is the part of the everlasting gospel and it's given for men to do not for angels three other men The Herald we could make the argument yes 3:12 paragraph 2 fatal men who were obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit in the teachings of his word were to proclaim this warning to the world they were those who were taken he to the sure word of prophecy the light that shines in a dark place until the day dawn and the day star arise 2nd Peter 1:19 they had been seeking the knowledge of God more than all hid treasures counting it better than the merchandiser silver and the gain thereof than fine gold and the Lord revealed to them the great things of the kingdom the secret of the Lord is with them that fear him and he will show them his covenant it was not the scholarly theologians who an understanding of this truth and engaged it's proclamation had these been faithful Watchmen diligently and pray for Li searching the Scriptures they would have known that not the time of night they know the time of night the prophecies would have opened to them the events about to take place but they did not occupy this position and the message was given by humbler men so Jesus walk while he had the light lest darkness come upon you those who turn away from the light which God has given or who neglect to seek it when it is within their reach are left in darkness but the Savior declares he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have light shall have the light of Life whoever is in this whoever is with singleness of purpose seeking to do God's will earnestly heeding the light already given will receive greater light that soul some star of heavenly radiance will be sent to guide him in all truth at the time of Christ's Advent the priests and scribes of the holy city to whom were entrusted the Oracles of God might have discerned the signs of the times and proclaimed the coming of the promised one the Messiah of Micah that's right isolated - thank you the prophecy of Micah designated his birthplace Daniel specify the time of his Advent Micah 5 Daniel 9 God committed these prophecies to the Jewish leaders they were without excuse if they do not know and declare to the people that the Messiah's coming was at hand they're ignorant was the result of sinful neglect the Jews were building monuments for the same prophets of God while by their deference to the great men of Earth they were paying homage to the servants of Satan absorbing their ambitious strife for place and power among men they lost sight of the divine honors proffered them by the king of heaven was she referring to when she talks about Micah and Daniel the place and the time you're not sure let's go to Micah 5:2 is samus's coming and it's 7:30 a.m. 20 it's about time to finish up anyway so maybe if we open Sabbath with two hymns and then we'll close that off thank you for the promises thank you for your Sabbath that we can rest and draw close to you please come and meet with us this Sabbath and give us the blessing you want to give us and as we prepare to go home to our separate ways please give a safety thank you