The Chronology of Ezra 7-10 p.2




Publish Date: 9/13/2018
Speaker Name: Theodore Turner
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-13-18) Afternoon - The Chronology of Ezra 7-10 _ p.2-t4OFHTmpJcc
YouTube ID: t4OFHTmpJcc



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your Father in heaven we're so thankful to be here this afternoon we just asked for your spirits presence as we open your word together and we pray this in Jesus name Amen so first thing I want to do and I probably should just get some of those paper notes myself so sorry about that and we're just going to look at the questions the assignment and these are on page 10 and again I apologize for the way these notes are not lined up so when we ask people what's the strongest biblical argument for placing the captivity of Daniel early in Johor akim's third year of reign does anybody how would you answer that questions anybody want to answer that what's the strongest argument for placing Daniel's captivity early in the third year of his reign that is in the fall of 607 rather than in the middle or later in Johor akim's third year would be the strongest argument for that in your mind your understanding yes okay you're talking about like the fourth year so some people believe it's the fourth year based on Jeremiah which is a misunderstanding and miss reading thinking that's referring to the 70 years captivity but it's for referring to the 70 years for Babylon which actually had started three years before that so if you're looking at the strongest argument Graham presented that Joe Hoya Chin's anointings the two anointings and that would be a very powerful argument at least for me not everybody everybody's gonna have a different view but we know that Jehoiachin was anointed when he was 8 and 18 and the reason he would have been anointed when he was 8 would have been at the siege that's talked about in Daniel chapter 1 verse 1 and since that's actually 9 years apart from the end when he's when he's anointed the second time and he's 18 it's actually nine years in a couple of months span in there from the start of Jehovah Kim's third year in the fall of six oh seven - when Jehoiachin would have turned nine years old so you have to have turned nine years old some time before December I can't remember the date December 9th or something like that so there's a couple of months period in which he could have been eight years old so that means he must have just turned 18 at the time he was anointed in 598 after the death of Jehoiakim so that to me would be a really strong argument the other argument which i think is very strong is that Ellen White says that the succession of Cyrus to the throne marked the completion of seventy years from when the first Hebrews were carried away to Babylon and if we put that together with a number of other spirit of prophecy quotes which I really didn't go through in the class but some of them have to do when the decree is how we place that decree how we place the fall of Babylon that it's within about two years from when Cyrus secedes to the throne or succeeds to the throne that you would have to put Cyrus coming to the throne not in the spring of 536 when he makes the decree but some months before that and probably about a half a year before that so that means 70 years are complete in the fall of 537 so I know those are kind of little technical arguments but as you start to work through some of this chronology you should be able to to sort through these things and understand them and sometimes you're going to have to defend them the other thing that we we dealt with is in 607 most scholarship would not recognize anything if it's happening in 607 or 606 that is they would place the beginning of the captivity in very late in 605 like in December or 604 and the reason is that document called the Babylonian chronicles doesn't say anything about Nebuchadnezzar's Army in 6:07 yet it is not really the Babylonia of chronicles is not a record of Nebuchadnezzar's army it's a record of his father's army and it only mentions him earlier when he's fighting with his father so naval placer has an army because he's the king and his son who's the crown prince has his own army and he can take his friends out basically which is what they are his buddies and go and plunder and do all kinds of damage to all these little cities because he's the crown prince of Babylon and he has this big army that he can use and so he had to have gone to Jerusalem in 607 and taken Daniel captive and a number of other princes of Judah and he would have at that time also received money from Jehoiakim so that had to have happened in 607 even though there is no record of it that is the Babylonian chronicles don't record it but there's no reason they should and that's a mistake that Scholarships makes so there's a little thing in archaeology absence of evidence is not evidence of absence just because you don't have evidence for something doesn't mean it didn't happen you know another example is 677 with Manassas captivity people didn't even believe that Manasseh was ever taken to Assyria because there was no records of it is just something in the Bible and people believe that it was put there in the Bible because you know some political reason and it was just made-up story but we believe it because it's in the Bible now we happen to now have an assyrian document called prism b where s are Hayden tells us that he took Manasseh to Assyria and some people use that as an argument against the fact that he was taken to Babylon because the document doesn't say he was taken to Babylon it just says that him and 21 other princes names Manasseh by name was taken by SR Hayden to Assyria he just says I gathered them together and then I sent them out to Nineveh to haul timber and so they'll make this argument because he didn't specifically say he first brought him to Babylon you can't prove that he was first taken to Babylon and of course he had to have taken him to Babylon because he had just finished rebuilding Babylon and the reason he takes these princes to Babylon and forces them to do labor is to show his power over them and so he's going to show them the city he just built and then it says he sent them out to Nineveh where did he send them out from and then we know from Allen white that the only time that Babylon was the temporary capital of Assyria was during the time of SR Haydn because it was when Manasseh was taken captive Babylon was the temporary capital Ellen White says and there's no other time other than in the time of SR Haydn but people will argue against this but that rule no absence of evidence is not evidence of absence just because there is no documentation something happened we have to trust that the Bible all this structure but this Biblical prophecy must be true because it would all fall apart the whole thing would fall apart so sometimes even though there isn't external evidence there is enough external evidence and enough internal evidence to show that these things all fit together so when does the captivity of Daniels start an end somebody thought it was a trick question I'm talking about the captivity where Daniel begins to be taken captive I call it Daniels captivity it's the Babylonian captivity so it began in the fall of 607 and ended in the fall of 537 though technically there's another six months before the decree occurs that allows them to go back to Jerusalem what's the difference between the 70 years in Babylon and the 70 years for Babylon does anybody want to answer that question yes James in Babylon would be the captivity of the Jews and for Babylon would be okay and so babylons in power from October 609 when Assyria Falls to October 539 when Babylon Falls now ask the question if September 28 is the first day of the seventh month in 607 BC what is the first day of the first month so what would I have to do to figure out this question first what would I have to do what would I have to know okay so well first I'd have to know that between the first day of the seventh month and the first day of the first month there's a certain number of days in the Jewish calendar so how many days would it be from the first day of the first month to the first day of the seventh month how many days in the first month and in the second month okay so we would know that if we had six months of 30 days how many days would we have okay one eighty and there's how many months that don't have 30 days three so it would be a hundred and seventy seven days now I asked this question for for a little bit more of a reason than just that because sometimes people make a mistake so there's a hundred and seventy seven days so the first day of the seventh month is which day if we're gonna number it starting on the first day of the first month it's day number what your honor did can you say that louder so one seven eight would everybody agree with that because if you're counting the first day of the first month as one then it would be one seven eight now if I'm going to be using this program to to bring up this date what's the difference between the first day of the first month and the first day of the seventh month how many days difference is it if I'm just doing math how many days difference so if I was gonna go to September 28 on this calendar calculator which is supposed to come up here if I'm if I'm gonna go from September 28 so I'm telling you that September 28 is the first day of the seventh month how many days would I have to count to go to the first day of the first month because we said it's a hundred and seventy seven days if you just count the days and the it's the hundred and seventy eighth day so that's ordinal counting we're counting the days starting at one is the first day of the seventh month what would I have to do to get back to the first day of the first month okay so we would we just would subtract a hundred and seventy seven why would we not subtract one hundred and seventy-eight right cuz because we're when we do math math has zeros in it right and and we don't we don't often really think about that so when we're counting and we're gonna count from so let's say today is today's Thursday tomorrow's Friday the next day Saturday how many days are there from today till Saturday okay so somebody said one day somebody said - how many would say three so it depends how you count it right and this is a problem we're going to run into all the time in in chronology and counting dates as people make mistakes because they don't really understand or think about what they're doing so I'm gonna put here on this now this isn't Julian calendar so I don't know if you can see this or not I'm gonna try to blow it up and make it a bit bigger so we got the Julian calendar here there's the Julian day there's modified Julian day and so we're gonna go in the Year 536 or this 607 this one 607 right 607 and I'm gonna go to September and that's September 28th and so I hit the calculate and that will tell me that it was a Sunday in 607 now if I move up to the top here here's the the Gregorian day and you'll see the Gregorian uses - 606 so the Gregorian calendar on this program has a zero year between AD 1 and BC 1 okay but the Julian calendar on this program doesn't and that's another thing that can confuse people so now I can use this modified Julian day now this modified Julian day is going from a certain date backwards so if I wanted to go backwards I would just add 177 214 so how much is that you could use a calculator but you would be 191 right so if I go here and put 191 am I going too fast for people and I calculate this it will tell me that April 4th would be the first day of the first month in 607 does that make sense does that help people a little bit does everybody understand what I did so this is one way to do it it's it's probably the simplest I do also have one a site that I never showed you which I like it's the 360 day calendar converter it's just I like this ones it's more visual I can see all of the calendars at once but the guy is some weird theories about a 360-day calendar year so it's kind of a nutty idea but anyway he gets it from the book of Jubilees so maybe it's not that nutty but it doesn't work you end up having your year shifting five days every year so we have another question and yes well the Sabbath the first day is Sunday it's the Sunday and well today what today is you mean oh so if I'm gonna count from today there's not necessarily a correct way you could say three days from now you could say after three days you you know from a biblical perspective you could call it two days all of those are acceptable so that's the problem is that there isn't really and we do this ourselves right so in the Bible they're not always using some consistent rule of how to count that for example you'll see in mark I believe that says you know you have Jesus saying the same thing but he says on the third day I will rise again and in Matthew it says after three days it's exact same story Jesus is saying the same things except mark records them as saying on the third day the other one after three days well after three days is inclusive reckoning the third day is ordinal counting today tomorrow the third day which is not inclusive people confuse it with inclusive inclusive is when you say three not third and you mean third does that make sense so those those are things to distinguish between and so you're supposed to say if you had any disagreements let me see no I haven't got any disagreements in yet hopefully we can get some of those in some of the further assignments I can have something that you disagree with and also points you do not understand now someone did not understand a particular point here and I have to go to this email and you're gonna see who it is if you can read it the point Graham what was the point you didn't understand again okay so I did answer that sort of and that makes sense now or not it makes sense okay so it's just basically counting his birthday so we don't need to look at that okay and then I wanted you to use the Torah calendar for the year 536 and we're going to look at that so I asked to look up the first day of the first month the 14th day of the first month the sixth day of the third month the fifth day of the fourth month the first day of the fifth month the first day of the seventh month in 536 BC and so what I would do with this is I have to make sure it's on BC now and I'm going to put the year 536 and then I'm going to go view now right now it's set for the seventh month and you probably can't see that I can zoom into it and can you see that better so you can see here if we're gonna put in the first month and we go view and it's very slow I'm not sure why but and I don't know if you can see that at the bottom I'm gonna you know say Thursday March 29th this is the day before the new moon I have to make sure I have new moon day selected because I like to look at the evening that you're going to see the new moon and I kind of dropped the ball a little bit two days ago because that evening was the first visible Crescent you could have seen it and then you may have seen it yesterday when you went outside in the dark you saw there was a crescent that was the second day after the first visible Crescent and here we can see that there is a crescent there right see this little crescent that's what it looks like and that would be on the evening that you would first be able to see it and that was Friday March 30th 536 BC now the question is is it before or after the spring equinox well it's after the spring equinox that far back if you go further back the spring equinox is going to start in to April because it shifts on the Julian calendar so what would the first day of the first month be if March 30th is that no evening that you see the Sun so you can what's that what's that the moon I mean the new moon right so the Sun is is just touching is that it's behind it it's way back on the other side of the Moon and so you just see a little bit of that sunshiny cuz the Sun is just set so what would that evening would start what day on the Jewish calendar the first day of the first month right so that'd be the first day of the first month now I don't need to look at each month then what would I need to do to figure out all these other dates because all these other dates are going to be following a cycle of 30 2930 2930 2930 or 29 but I'm only wanting you to go to the first day of the seventh month so how would you do that if you were going to do this counting how would you do that I because this won't tell me if I start to look at this one and pick each month it might be off a day because this one's based upon the observance of the moon every month so what would I do yeah yeah so there's easy ways to do it the way I always did it as I get a calendar and that would count physically count each day so you would find a calendar and it doesn't really matter what year the calendar is but you would start counting from as long as you know you're not starting before you know it's a leap year or something so here we're starting in the spring there's no leap year involved that you would ever have if you're counting the Jewish calendar from the spring and you would just count the days so we could add them up and find a number but I would have to know on our calendar how many days that is away so you could just use the calendar converter to get to the first day of the seventh month and again what would we do so if we're gonna go here I can put this date so the date in 536 was March 31st right because March 30th was there so that's a Saturday and then I would have to subtract 177 days from this number here because this number is going from a time in the nineteenth century or the 1900s and it's counting backwards or I could use this one no Julian day and I would add a hundred and seventy seven to this so I could do either one so if I was going to add a hundred and seventy seven to this what would I get seven thirty eight plus one seventy seven can anybody do that math quickly without a calculator so it would be simply ya 915 because you would just add the 70 to the 73 which would give you nine and then the 7 to the eighth so all I would do is change this to 915 I know it's like being in school or something doing math and when I do that then I would find that the first day of the seventh month is September 24th and what's that no no there's nine 15 yeah yeah yeah yeah and so we get the date September 24th and so I look at all your the people who have handed in the mean by emails I look at them but one person got that correct September 24th you have they're not all right okay but you have March 31st for the first day the first month in September 24th for the first day of the seventh month so I'd have to go through and look at these I did you know I should probably do this myself so I just know these dates yeah you can't what you're saying here that it only has 29 days yeah so it's going to say that where does that say that Oh view here or up here oh I see what you're saying you use this I never even ever use this so they have this calendar that you can click on it's view calendar and it'll give you it looks like our modern calendars yeah but yeah it doesn't matter but it's on a rich one so you can use these tool but you're gonna see that and in this one you can see there's Yom Kippur and this one has 30 so so these are these are these calendars the month so if I click there on the first month it'll show me this one and so he made a mistake because well this one shows it has am I in the right year no I'm in 2018 nevermind I'd have to go to the right year so for some reason it's just I didn't pick the right here okay so I'm gonna go back here so what I have to do is actually go up here and match this with this so I'd have to pick well just change the year to BC 536 and then if I go to go into March yeah and then I view calendar or I could choose the Hebrew month there as well and then there's this calendar up here so I can click that's 537 that's 536 but this isn't gonna line up perfectly with the biblical calendar it may be off a day right because this one views the moon every month and the Jews didn't do that they went 30 29 all the time so these are some these are important things that you have to be able to use these tools to understand how the calendar works so I know that is not the easiest thing to do but once you get used to it it's not that bad so let's go to Ezra chapter 1 so now we're gonna look at this chronology that we just worked out dealing with Cyrus and we're gonna start reading here it says now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia that the word of the Lord by the mouth of jeremiah fulfilled the lord stirred up but up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and put it also in writing saying the Cyrus Cyrus king of Persia the Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth and have charged me to build him in a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah so we know about this story how does Cyrus know that God has asked him to build this house but the Lord God right as he says the Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of this earth and has charged me to build this house which is in Giroud ah how does how does he know this ok so let's look at this let's go to Daniel chapter 10 first maybe we'll go to Isaiah 45 first let's go to Isaiah and actually it's if we look at it Isaiah 45 verse 1 we actually can look at the end of chapter 44 where he says in verse 28 so it's just the last verse of Isaiah 44 that Seth of Cyrus he is my shepherd and shall perform all my pleasure even saying to Jerusalem thou shalt be built and to the temple thy foundation shall be laid and then chapter 45 the Seth the Lord to his anointed what is that word anointed anybody know Messiah which means Messiah so he's called the Messiah to cyrus whose right hand I have Holden to subdue nations before him and I will loose the loins of Kings to open before him the to leave at gates and the gates shall not be shut I will go and be go before thee and make the crooked places straight I will break in pieces the gates of brass and I will cut in sunder the bars of ayran and I will give the the treasures of darkness what is the treasures of Darkness anybody know what this is referring to this was chapter 45 I'm on verse 3 what is the treasures of Darkness is anybody familiar with this term okay this is a reference to the teachings of Babylon the treasures of Babylon it's the treasures of darkness and I could give you a little bit of a Bible study on it but we know that dark sayings refers to Babylon and Babylon is mystery it's all about mystery so this treasures of Darkness is that means he's going to conquer Babylon right that's what it's it's talking about so this is not just talking about the fact that he's going to build the Jerusalem and the temple laid the foundation of the temple but it's even referring back earlier to his conquering of Babylon so when he seduced nations looses the loins of Kings whose loins were loosed by Cyrus yeah that was Belshazzar right his loins were loosed in his knees smote one to the other one against the other so there's this reference here to Cyrus now let's turn to Daniel chapter 10 and we should be familiar with this if we're familiar with understanding the Trump is the last president we should have spent some time studying this so Daniel chapter says 10 it says in the third year of Cyrus king of Persia so when is the third year of Cyrus anybody know so when did Cyrus conquer Babylon so in the Jewish year 538 which began in the fall of 539 we know it was the evening of October 12th and that night the 13th that Cyrus's armies went in and killed Belshazzar and we know that cyrus was the general and his uncle was the king of media so of the media Persian Empire and it says durai's the median took the kingdom was the rise there when Belshazzar was killed when Babylon fell he wasn't personally there he was an old man and his nephew Cyrus was the one who was in charge of de Rice's army right so he had the army of medo-persia and they had an agreement when de rice was going when dryest died Cyrus would take over all of Persia so when they conquered Babylon it was the meat of Persian Empire but when dereyes died which was within about two years of the fall of Babylon Ellen White says in prophets and kings Cyrus succeeded to the throne and the beginning of his reign marks the completion of the 70 years so we know then if we're talking about the third year of Cyrus are we talking about the third year from when Babylon fell or are we talking about the third year from when de rious died is anybody ok so you're saying it's a KO rule it depends how you count so cyrus was king for a long time of persia before he conquered Babylon and when Babylon was conquered de rious became the king of Babylon Cyrus was not the king of Babylon technically right he's the king of Persia still and then when Darius died Cyrus became both the king of Babylon the king of lands the king of Persia he had these three different titles and different documents will give him different titles and count his reign differently based upon different things depending on where II where their perspective when they're ready in a document these are usually Bills of sales or contracts so the third year of Cyrus if we read through this will find that Daniel is fasting for three full weeks and then on the four and twentieth day it says in verse four of the first month as I was by the side of the Great River hit a kill he has this vision and this vision that he has on the 24th day of the first month is an angel coming to him telling him that Michael has been fighting against the Prince of the kingdom of Persia during this time from the time that he began to pray right and but now something has happened now I'm trying to just go through this a bit quickly maybe you need to read it yourself but we find that and are you from how many people are not familiar with this is everybody familiar with this story this account in Daniel chapter 10 so on the 24th day of the first month the angel comes and says that this battle has been won so when Cyrus becomes king when dereyes dies does he know at that time that he is going to build Jerusalem when he becomes king of Babylon when his uncle dies does he know okay I would say no now as he comes into contact with Daniel because Daniel is in Babylon that's you know Daniels not in the media Persian Kingdom he's in Babylon yes he is a king well now he's been the king of Persia for a long time that's right so we have the one place that says in the first year that he was moved but now we have this battle going on in what it says is the third year now the title he received when he conquered Babylon was a title king of lands I believe sometimes I get this a little bit confused two different titles but I believe is the king of lands so even though he conquered Babylon and de rice became king of Babylon he's not king of Babylon he's still king of Persia and so when you talk about in the third year of the reign of Cyrus king of Persia that doesn't even make sense in the context of Cyrus how he counts the years of his reign I can't remember how long he's been raiding but I believe it's something like 13 years it's in the teens anyway that he's been king of Persia so when it says it's in the third year Daniel here would be counting from the third year that Babylon fell and we would have to know this because the whole context of this is this battle over Cyrus his mind so that Cyrus can issue this decree so Daniel finishes his his his fast when the angel comes to him on the 24th day of the first month so if the 24th day of the first month started on March 31st it would be what date on our calendar anybody know if March 31st is the first day of the first month it would be April 23rd right if I'm doing my math right so yes right so we know that you know there may be in some influence but we don't know at what point daniel is now going to Cyrus and telling him showing him the book of Isaiah we don't know exactly when that happened but he had to have showed him it before this event yes so there's a lot of details that we can find in the spirit of prophecy regarding this so so I would think that it would have been sometime just shortly before this I don't think he would have showed Cyrus this when des rias's King he would have showed it when Cyrus becomes King a Babylon and now he says I mean that's my view I'm not 100% certain on this but I would think that this battle would be shortly after Cyrus receives this information from Daniel and then starts to think about it and decide what he's going to do and so that battle that's going on over Cyrus's mind is the great controversy it's Michael and Satan battling over Cyrus and on the 24th day of the first month the angel can come to Cyrus and say the battles been won yes James I don't know there's not a lot of information on that so but Cyrus did and I would think that probably it would have been known by people in the court because it was an agreement so Daniel would have known this working under dryest so he would know that Cyrus is going to be king so so when is the decree for them to return to Jerusalem issued what's the earliest it can be issue according to what we just read here yeah it 536 so this is the spring of 536 sometime after the 24th day of the first month which is April 23rd correct so we know then that they're going to do something so we're going to just try to quickly go through this so let's go back to Ezra so Ezra chapter 1 and it gives a lot of information and it's it's good to read these things but I don't know if chapter 2 is that necessary to read because it's a list of names but if you want to read it you can in chapter 3 again a list of names so there's all these names and we get to chapter 3 verse 1 and it says when the seventh month was come the children of Israel were in the cities and the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem and then stood up joshua the son of josedech and his brethren the priests and zerubbabel the son of shealtiel and his brethren and builded the altar of the God of Israel to offer burnt offerings thereon as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God so when did they build this altar in Jerusalem according to the verse here in the seventh month and we will find in verse 6 it says from the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord so that means on the first day of the seventh month they build this altar now we know from the story of Ezra 7 when did they leave Babylon in under art exerts ease decree the first day of the fifth month and when did they get to Jerusalem first day of the first month yes that's what I meant and and when they get to Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month right so how many months is that four months okay Cyrus's decree is issued on the 24th day of the first month so if they were going to take four months to get to Jerusalem how long would it take when would they get there I mean it would take four months but when would they get there if they're starting on the 24th day of the first month they would get there on you have the 24th of the fifth month so at the end of fifth month if they left right when the decree occurred now probably there would be a period of time so he issues a decree they'd probably have to gather people together and so when they build the altar on the first day of the seventh month how long do you think they could have possibly been in Jerusalem to do that well a month and six days or whatever so so they don't really have a great deal of time so probably they just arrive and they get to Jerusalem maybe a couple days before it doesn't say so we can see that this fits in with this timeline really well now the first day of the seventh month is Rosh Hashanah which we talked about last time and Rosh means head seanny is year Hashanah just means hot means the so Rosh Hashanah is the head of the year and we saw that the calendar that the Jews use is a circular calendar because their calendar is the sky and they see the sky rotate and so at the turn of the year in the spring they see that the Europe's beginning and in the at the seventh month it's the opposite the sky has turned completely around does that make sense to you what I'm talking about that is the way the constellations have moved they've seen everything all the stars the planets moving through these constellations and they then and how the Sun moves through the sky and how the moon moves through the sky they can then count the seasons and so they call that the head of the year but the turn of the year is in the spring so the first day of the first month is the return or the return of the year using the word Shu for Shiva and then in the the fall it's the head of the year so they have this circular calendar they think of the calendar like a big giant wheel and that's why in Ezekiel's vision these wheels within wheels are is a timepiece right it's God controlling all the events of humanity that appear to be complex but there's a perfect order and that's God's throne so chronology and time is extremely important to God because God has given us time in which to perfect a Christian character for this work to be completed on this earth now on page it's on page 12 in your notes it might be on page 11 in the other notes there is this timeline if you look at this line here and I probably need to draw it so in a more simplified form so we're gonna rid of all this so now we can say you know we got the first day of the first month we got the 24th day of the first month and over here we have the first day of the seventh month and somewhere back here in the previous year you know we have Cyrus begins his you know and it'd probably be maybe in the seventh the seventh months back here Cyrus comes to the throne now this then could be called Cyrus's now Cyrus's first year of being the king of like when it talks about it in Ezra chapter one in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia there's a question about how we count this so is it saying the first year of his reign now Cyrus has been king for a long time in Persia so it's not really the first year that he's the king of Persia it's the first year that he's the king of Babylon technically and if he was going to count that Cyrus would count it on the first day of the first month but this is his accession year or succession year that he comes to the throne of Babylon when dereyes dies and so we would then say well this is going to be the start of Cyrus's first year his first year right that's the way it deals with it in Ezra because it says it's in his first year it's not capped now they could maybe include this as part of his first year so sometimes the accession year is referred to as part of the first year but technically this is the second year of Darius that he's king of Babylon but in Daniel 10 it says this is his third year because it's County not from here but from two years previous when Babylon Falls and then we have this these events that occur in 536 now we're going to look at a chapter 3 and starting in verse 8 so I'm going to try to get through some of this hopefully not - it's not going to go too quickly so it says now in the second year of their coming unto the house of God at Jerusalem in the second month began zerubabbel the son of the remnant or the son of shealtiel and joshua the son of josedech and the remnant of their brethren the priests and levites so anyway goes on that they're going to lay the foundation of the temple and when do they do this according to verse 8 of chapter 3 the second month of what year yeah so this is obviously again referring to this so over here we have the first day of the first month again and then we're gonna have the first day of the second month and then here this is when they're gonna lay the foundation of the temple so that's in 535 BC not in 536 that makes sense how we have that laid out so we can see that this you know this will now then be the second year according to era not according to Daniel chapter 10 Channel Daniel chapter 10 would have to call that the fourth year and it's also in also interesting to note how Daniels doing this in that if you call that the third year you know the first year of de riots that he's king because it talks about dryest his first year would also be Cyrus's first year in that context but this is then a different first year now why do you think this is why do you think we would have problems with this because our people have problems with why do we have such a problem with this with having the third year being the first year I mean I'm not saying that's personally but why do people who were in this movement not accept this what do you think the reason would be other than you know the things dealing with not accepting truth but just from a human point of view or maybe from our culture okay so we would think that they're going to be consistent on how they do things one thing you'll find is that people aren't consistent with calendars because they have a different way of looking at calendars than we do we have these fixed years in which we count things they didn't they count things from events so kings could be counted from events that happen so you might just say this is the first year of Nebuchadnezzar because he came and he conquered us we're not counting the year of his reign but sometimes you might you might refer to the year of neb in the thirteenth year of his reign so you might refer to it that way so you can refer to things in different ways and they it wouldn't seem unusual to them it wouldn't seem inconsistent you know when you think about in the Gospels even the example I gave before calling something the third day and after three days they're not consistent yeah the first years Ezra one the second years Ezra chapter three the third year here is Daniel chapter 10 so this is in Daniel 10 verse 1 and this this is in Ezra 1 verse 1 yep no he's moved to give a decree yeah say did you yeah not yea so that's why we say this is the same year because that's what's happening in Daniel chapter 10 he's being moved to make this to give this decree and so they have to be the same year but there are people who don't accept this because we have a way of thinking about time that is different than the way that they think about time so that said to them there would be no problem with this now many people recognize this that's why some people will say well then it says in Jeremiah 24 that the first year of Nebuchadnezzar which is the fourth year of Jehoiakim that must be the same as the third year of Jehoiakim and Daniel 1:1 and we dealt with that a little bit that it's not it's not the same year it's one year later because it's not addressing when it's not talking about the 70 years the very year they began it's not even talking about the 70 years Babylonian captivity it's talking about the 70 years for Babylon which already started a few years before so that fourth year of Jehoiakim in Jeremiah is the same as the third year in Daniel but some people will use that argument because they see arguments like this so you have to be careful that you know you understand what's happening and there's other ways that we can show that joy comes forth years the same as or in in Jeremiah is the same as the third is is not the third year in Daniel 1:1 it's not the same year it's a different year that they're counting the same Daniel and Jeremiah are counting the years of Jehoiakim the same now in Chapter four let's turn there quickly so I'm going to try to get through some of this as quickly as I can and now it says now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the children of the captivity builded the temple unto the Lord God of Israel then they came to zerubabbel unto the chief of the fathers and said unto them let us build with you for we seek your God as G do and we do sacrifice unto Him since the days of SR Haydn king of Ashur which brought us up hither who is this group of people that was brought up by SR Haydn to the Land of Israel what's that just what's not northern tribes yep SR Haydn took Manasseh right so that's Manasseh he took him in 677 so SR Haydn also did something else who are these people that come to sera Babel and Joshua there's the Samaritans okay and that means that these people are they Jews okay they're not Jews they're people who repopulated northern Israel in the days of SR Hayden because Assyria depopulated northern Israel and then replace them with people from hema thin haze or these different places of and part of the Assyrian realm and put them in northern Israel so that the Israelites couldn't come back and occupy the land that's what's happened now some Israelites still would have been there and those Samaritans would have mixed with those Israelites and learned some of the religion from them but they're not Jews you know even though they even though some of those people might be closely related in some ways now or because some of those those people still exist today but these Samaritans are not the tribes of northern Israel the lost ten tribes sometimes we talk about the lost ten tribes they're lost that they're scattered and literal ten tribes are never going to be recognized again so it's something we know there's other people who don't believe that not in this message but in other religions that believe you know some of these different places like people in Ireland you know they're from a certain tribe and so forth but anyway these are the Samaritans and they're they're not called the Samaritans at this time Samaritan is a Greek name that was used later but that's who these people are and they want to be involved now these people then are the enemies because they're not allowed to be involved they seek to oppose the rebuilding of the temple and of the city later as well in verse four it says the people of land weak in the hands of the people of Judah and troubled them in building and hired counselors against them to frustrate their purpose all the days of Cyrus king of Persia even unto the reign of Darius king of Persia so how long did this work go on this so we got here Cyrus and des rise now this is of course two rious the Persian not dries the mead what's that 16 years yes roughly about 16 years and I have it on the chart on this this page in much more detail than I'm going to draw it here but we have Syrus from the time that they conquered Babylon Syrus reigns nine more years and then he dies and Cabul sees rains now when we read this next verse here verse 6 let's read it and then we see what you think about it and then it says and in the reign of a Hazaras in the beginning of his reign wrote day unto him an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem so who is this person a Hazaras so you're going along you got Cyrus and there's we know there's some Kings in between here but it says from size to dereyes and then some people when they read this who followed Durai Asst circ sees right and what's he called in the book of Esther has a rare so people just read this and they say well this Ahasuerus must be Xerxes and then it says verse 7 and in the days of arctic circus rodebush lamb Mithra death qabil and the rest of their companions under arctic circuses king of persia right and so it talks about this arctic circus well I mean obviously you know our Tobias is in between they're after Xerxes but art exerts ease then follows so people just say well this must be jerks ease and art exerts ease in the spirit of prophecy Ellen White's really clear that a hawser heiress is who does anybody know canvases can be seized however people want to say it so we got Cyrus he's called something like that I know you can't read that because it's spelt wrong anyway and then we have arctic circus but he's he's actually false murtis okay so this is talking about the work of the enemies that's happening between Cyrus or from Cyrus all the way to the time of Dryas and so it just repeats and enlarges it doesn't continue on and I've actually had discussions with people who believe otherwise and then they put the rebuilding of the temple not with the rious the Persian order ice the great but with a later device that's way long after our tech services so they put all these things way into the future now I mention these just because we have to be really careful as we read and you're gonna find commentaries that aren't going to agree with this Alan White's very clear but you know you're gonna run into those problems and you need to be aware of them yes Larry right so prophets and kings five seven two point two yes art exerts eases false murders yeah okay so we have that straightened out we have this work of the enemies that happens and of course we could put this all in a reformed line we're gonna see that you know the laying of the foundation of the literal temple and then the work of the enemies that happens and then we're gonna know that later in the story of Esther we end up with the Sunday law right so when I presented this in Alberta back in August I was actually dealing with the reformed lines not just the chronology and I asked a question and I don't know how we've sorted out Esther as far as how it lies within the three decrees because under de rias's rebuilding of the temple we definitely have the second decree which parallels the second angels message so how we fit Esther into there I'm not quite sure how we've decided that but and we know that the story of Esther deals with the Sunday law and it happens under the the second decree in a sense it's under that period of time and we know that Esther is in Babylon and where she's supposed to be in Jerusalem because they've just had this second call and zerubabbel which names means out of Babylon you know they had the second call when they rebuilt the temple and we're gonna look at that as well so this is very you know very simple to understand once you go through it and I suggest that you know you read the book of Ezra multiple times because you're going to start to notice more details in it and when we do this on the next one which is next week on Monday we're gonna go through art exact sees decree we're going to go through the start of the 70 weeks in the 2300 days and there's some very important things that we need to see there because we're familiar with the first day the first month in the first day of the fifth month but there's more to that story than just those two days now we're going to note we know under false Marty's smarty's that they stopped building now there is in my notes I deal with this in much more detail but what happens is that false Mertes he looks up the records when these people come to him and complain and what he finds is the Babylonian chronicles so he has a record that Nebuchadnezzar came and destroyed Jerusalem he doesn't have the record of anything good about the Jews and he doesn't have the record of Cyrus's decree so small so false Mertes when he looks this up when he's dealt with this the one who's called art exerts he's not arted services he just looks it up and says up there bad and so he stops the building of the temple and then we know that they commenced the temple under the prophesying of Haggai and Zechariah so Haggai and Zechariah when you read them all they're really dealing with is encouraging God's people to start rebuilding the temple so they have laid the foundation they've stopped you need to continue building it and looking at Haggai and Zechariah we don't have time to look at that in detail but if you start to read it you will find that they begin in 520 and that's on page 16 of your notes and they begin in 520 to prophesy and technically Zechariah just right at the end of 520 and he prophesized all the way into 518 right at the end of 518 hey guys all his prophesying is in 520 so if you look at that chart there we see that that's happening so we're going to know that here in 520 which is in the second year of dereyes the Persian that Haggai and Zechariah begin to prophecy so this is we'll call this the second here and then the third and the fourth and the fifth and the sixth and his reign goes spring to spring so if this is so we'll do it this way we'll go this is 520 521 whoops I'm going backwards 519 518 and over here more and this is 515 BC so in the second year hey guy starts prophesied Zechariah starts prophesying right here and he continues prophesying right to the end of here and there are some things we talked about them before there's 70 years for the temple so we talked about this last time so the temple was destroyed in 586 on the tenth day of the fifth month and then it was rebuilt and dedicated and we're going to look at that here so let's look at chapter 6 of Ezra and we're going to start in verse 15 so we're skipping a bunch of history of how they end up doing this but it says in verse 15 and this house was finished on the third day of the month of Adar which is the sixth year of the reign of dereyes the king so that was Azra chapter 6 verse 14 15 part of me oh and I should read verse 14 it says the elders of the Jews builded and they prospered through the prophesying of haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of a doe and they build it and finished it according to the commandment of the God of Israel and according to the commandment of Cyrus and arise and art exert seized kings of Persia and this house was finished on the third day of the month adar which is in the sixth year the reign of Darius the King so Adar does anybody know which month adar is it's the twelfth month because it's the one where you can get a second date or a v8r and so it's finished here in the twelfth month and it's going to be on the third day so which year is the temple dedicated on our calendar in five fifteen and that date so it's the third day of the 12th month here in ours it's the twelfth day of the third month which is March March 12th so there's March 12th that's the date it's actually a Sabbath March 12th so on our calendar if we are gonna write it like this we'd write the twelfth day of the third month it just happens to be an inversion of the date here there's the third day of the 12th month so that's a coincidence right we have this coincidence in the Bible it doesn't mean something or not right I noticed this few years ago I thought it was an interesting coincidence and I believe it means something so we can see then now this is the Jewish year if we're gonna call this the Jewish year spring to spring this would be the Jewish year spring - spring 5/16 you'll find on the Torah calendar when you start going in months that go past here they will still keep this 5/16 date so once you get into like the 10th 11th and 12th month they don't give the date 5:15 they continue on because they look at that is the same year going spring to spring or actually I think in that one they go fall to fall so that means actually once you get past here they're gonna have that problem you're gonna see you can't remember if that one goes spring to spring or fall to fall but the point is this is the Jewish year 5:16 now we saw that there was and we mentioned it if you go back in your notes to page 13 there's this little diagram and it shows Cyrus's decrees in 536 the remnant return foundation is laid and the building resumes in 520 driest is decrees in 516 the temple rebuilt in 515 now this is a statement from review and Herald January 23rd 1908 sister White says nearly 20 years passed by so if you you look and read in the context this is from my understanding is from when they returned or maybe from when the decree was issued nearly 20 years passed by so it's not 20 years and then says many of the remnant who returned to Judea had fallen into a backslidden condition and we're doing no more to restore the house of God than were the Brethren living elsewhere in the medo-persian realm but as the result of the peals of Haggai and Zechariah the returned exile is repented before God and labored diligently to complete the temple the Lord blessed them and they were greatly prospered their efforts were brought to the notice of dereyes hist aspies or dryest the great dries to the Persian who was the monarch ruling at that time and he was impressed to issue a second decree fully as favorable as the one issued by cyrus over twenty years before when you look at the history of this it's very interesting because when do they start the rebuilding so Haggai and Zechariah encouraged them so somewhere in here they start rebuilding the temple during de rious right and the enemies are going to come and say why are they rebuilding and de rice when you read it in there you'll find that he searches out for the decree and it's going to take him some time because the decree is not actually in Persia well it's not in the Capitol right it's not in the capitol city which name escapes me at the moment Shushan right it's not intrusion it's in another town which I can't remember the enemy a madness I'm a that a something like that I'm no I pronounced it completely wrong but it's in this other town and they find this the actual decree so remember false murders just found the Babylonian chronicles but this decree of course is Cyrus's decree he's saying this is Lord God of heaven who's told me to rebuild this house and to rise then issues a second decree and the second decree Ellen White says their efforts were brought to the notice of driest aspies who was the monarch ruling at that time he was impressed obviously by the holy spirit to issue a second decree fully as favorable as the one issued by cyrus over twenty years before so Cyrus's what decree was issued when in the spring of 536 so what's the soonest you could have de rises decree if it's over twenty years from when Cyrus's decree occurred well right so it's gonna be here but it has to be after the spring correct and it's got to be sometime before they complete the temple so if you're going to place this decree I would just say you would place it in the summer or maybe early fall of 5:16 so you're gonna have de rises decree here that makes sense Allan white plainly tells us this now this is important because when we dealt with all those periods of 70 years and 140 years we have them ending with decrees most people actually I find nobody but Ellen White or spirit of prophecy place to rice his decree in 516 I can find no source nothing that does that except the spirit of prophecy so if she was copying her chronology from other people she obviously got this wrong because everybody puts the Rice's decree here they assume that the decree is issued at the time they begin rebuilding the temple they resume the work but we can see that that wouldn't have happened it probably he wouldn't even have known about the rebuilding until sometime in 5:19 then they have to search out the records and we don't know how long that took but Ellen White tells us that it's more than 20 years between the two decrees and that means that that decree comes at the time that 70 years from when the temple was destroyed the temple was destroyed in August of 586 and probably did the decree happen in August of 516 exactly 70 years from when it was destroyed and then it's six months actually seven months six seventy years and seven months from when it was destroyed it's dedicated and it's to dedicated on the third day of the 12th month or the twelfth day of the third month March 12th which is a Sabbath in 5:15 so if you were going to look at this and count from when it's dedicated and you said well it's destroyed in 586 and then it's rebuilt in 5:15 you would just say that's 71 years right it was actually 70 years and seven months and originally when I looked at this I was putting it in the spring of 516 before I really started working out some of these details and actually most times when you look it up if you look up at the rebuilding of the second temple they will say that it happened it was dedicated in 516 now that's true if you're using the Jewish year but they're talking about our calendar but they're just not being very specific they're not really thinking about it they're just recognizing it's the 16th year of derives in the 16th year of drys or the 6th year of drys is 5/16 right so they don't even think about the fine details so you can see that there's there's a lot of detail here and God has directed us at this time to understand this is there any questions on what we've done so far because I want to review it a little bit so when we go from Ezra chapter 1 to chapter 6 we have the history from the first decree to the second degree and we have we can easily put this on a reformed line I probably should have made that an assignment can you draw this on a reformed line because it's it's our standard reformed line of what we believe in the Miller right history when is the time of the end in in the reformed line of the decrees okay Cyrus Cyrus win okay 538 so the fall of Babylon October October 13 539 that's the fall of literal Babylon 1798 s the fall of spiritual Babylon right so there's a parallel there that's the time of the end you know for a paralleling this with Miller's reform line and then do we have you know we have an increase of light that occurs right under Cyrus you know he comes to the throne there's an increase of light that occurs and what is that light on what's the light that that Cyrus receives it's on Jerusalem his role now and also to release those that are captive in Babylon to release them and allow them to return to Jerusalem and remember that the light in every reform line the increase of light that occurs is in response to what what's the increase of light in response to you what's that the darkness so whatever the darkness is the light will always respond to that so what's the darkness of the 70 years captivity there in dark there in captivity right that's the darkness so what's the light coming out of captivity right so we'll see this in every reform line that the darkness is important to understand if you want to understand the reform line the purpose of that reform line you want to understand the increase of light so we have this increase of light and we could say maybe the message is formalized you know when cyrus first receives the message from daniel we could say that maybe it was empowered when he he you know gives the decree i don't know you know how you would do that this is something i'm not great at you know we could look at this in different ways now we kind of see that there are two times at the end because we recognize that even cyrus when he becomes to the throne could be called the time of the end when he succeeds to the throne at the end of the 70 years captivity proper right that's the actual captivity when Babylon Falls that these hands of the 70 years for Bob Babylon it's not really the end of the 70 years in Babylon you see what I'm saying so we first saw the 70 years ending with Cyrus and at first we just conflated them to a lot of people just put Cyrus follow Babylon same year never made a distinction between you know the two years and we saw that there was these two years but we still kept Cyrus issuing the decree as being the you know him coming to the throne and issuing to decree as the time of the end then we saw last year two years ago we saw for the first time that we could maybe put the time of the end at the fall of Babylon itself so we kind of see that there's two times of the end they're together I don't know if everybody's familiar with that so so we can do that now then when we we look at this reformed line we see them laying the foundation we see the work of the enemies and then after the work of the enemies the second angels message has to arrive and the second angels message arrives with two prophets Haggai and Zechariah would you agree with that it's they start this rebuilding of the foundation so they resume this work now how we would look at maybe the formalization and the empowerment of that could be considered in different ways and again how we place the story of Esther within the reformed line of the decrees I'm not sure how we've decided to do that but the story of Esther definitely would lie under under which message for a second or third angels message the Sunday law how would how would we look at that anybody have any ideas what would we say the Sunday law is is it the first second or third angels message third right so when does the third angels message arrive in the reformed line of the decrees what's that you have to say it louder I can't even hear you it arrives at the second under the second okay so it rise under the second and so is it empowered so if it arrives under the second you're saying yeah always in every history does it arrive under the second I don't know you know so that's something we have to think about when we look at this reform line and we compare it with the Miller Wright reform line but the third decree happens under Arctic searches and that's the one we're gonna look at next week next Monday so in trying to understand this you know I hope you get the idea of what we're doing why we're laying out this chronology and I'm not going to really deal with the Reformed lines per se but you need to think about these things in the context of the reformed lines and because there's a whole bunch of imagery that is used what's one of it what's the main imagery used here that we use from this story of the decrees what's the main model that's being used what's that building right so this is the building and it's the building of specifically the temple so we often think and I want to address that just this one point when it says in verse 14 of chapter 6 that they build it and finished it the temple according to this the commandment of Cyrus derives and art exerts he's king of Persia if the temple was rebuilt under the time of Darius why is Ezra referring to our desert seas wise Arctic circuses brought into this in this statement now when is ezra writing in the time of arctic circus right so why is he mention arctic circus here when the temple is rebuilt 59 years before artic circus decree what's that okay Daniel 9 okay how does Daniel 9 relate to arctic circled okay but but that's Jerusalem doesn't say anything about the temple in Arctic sixty's decree doesn't all it mentions about the temple is what it mentions a temple but what does it mention about the temple art exert seas it doesn't say anything about building the temple it only talks about some offerings and some things for furnishing the temple so some gold and silver is provided by arctic circus so why does Ezra say that it's built according to the commandment of dry of Cyrus dry sand art exerts ease because if the temple is completed their offering and they're going to keep the / and I need to mention that in verse 19 and the children of the captivity kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the first month so forty days after they dedicate the temple they keep the Passover right so this means this temple is as operational as it ever gets I mean they don't have the ark in it so they can't have the Day of Atonement but they're operating so why is art exact cease mentioned in that in this when they're when they're building the temple fifty nine years before his his decree you have any ideas so you say it's Daniel chapter 9 but Daniel chapter 9 doesn't deal with the temple but he's saying it's the temple it says it is rebuilt according to the commandment of Cyrus dry sand Arctic searches right so Arctic search cities free has nothing to do with the temple specifically it has only to do with the city and the laws okay so you're saying the laws are in the temple and so that's why art exert season mentioned see the way that I would look at is quite simple is that Ezra recognizes that Cade you have a comment yeah the 10 commandments aren't there the park isn't there yeah so I would just say it's it's more simple than that is that there are three decrees that are needed and that Ezra recognizes that it's not just about the temple it's about the whole city so even though the temple is built he's mentioning Arctic searches decree which specifically has nothing to do with the temple but it does because this is it completes that work that's needed and so he's recognizing something that's that you know maybe we don't we don't think about but he understands Daniel and so he understands that there is another decree and that other decree is art exerts ease so we can't just say Soraya's andreas we need to include our circ sees because they are unit those three decrees are not three separate decrees you know arbitrarily made by these three kings they're part of a process that God is used to get them out of the Babylonian captivity as a type for the Miller right time period and for our time as well so you know God put that there for a reason it's confuses people because people think art exerts these decree has something to do with the temple yes Graham yes that's what I'm trying to say is that they're they're combined in a three-step process and so those three decrees go together as a unit they are not separate decrees even though they are separate decrees but in God's mind they are one and so a seventh-day adventists and we're gonna see this when we look at art exerts these decree you know we often just pick one decree there's these decrees which one are we going to use to start the 70 weeks but we can see that God has all three decrees needed and that there's a three-step process and we're gonna see that expressed in article search these decree itself that it's not just a decree to restore and build Jerusalem then it's actually three steps that are needed in that decree so you're going to have your questions and assignments which I expect to be done and the chronology of that is you're going to look at 457 so you're gonna lay out the dates for 457 and 456 and that'll be helpful when we start going through Azra seven to ten so that's what we're gonna cover next week and you know some of the questions I asked here a little bit you know I want you to respond to this idea about the temple I just specifically question five the idea that the second temple was complete fifty nine years prior to our to search these decree is that new to you right I want to know you know yes or no to that one because it's it's something that was new to me a few years ago okay so let's close with prayer dear father in heaven we are thankful that we are here and that we are studying together and the privilege that we have an opening your word together with your spirit here binding our hearts to you and to one another we just ask Lord that we can continue to study all the light that's coming and even the old light to understand it we ask Lord that your spirit can be with us throughout this day throughout this school and that we cannot neglect our prayer and study and as much as we joy each other's company lord help us to remember that we're here to learn and to share we pray for your continued care and protection and we ask this and pray this in Jesus name Amen