(09-12-18) Morning - Luke 21 - ( gbgSGLX2as)




Publish Date: 9/12/2018
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Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-12-18) Morning - Luke 21-_gbgSGLX2as
YouTube ID: _gbgSGLX2as



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it's every ok with GC 308 paragraph 1 the book of Joel so we can take all that out unless anybody's got any questions yep we okay with Joel 2:20 he can tie back the book of Joel into Daniel 11 verse 45 any questions on those subjects nope I was surprised no one asked when you go to Daniel 11 verse 25 the verse says what sorry in the holy mountain and if we recall that for many years which said it's not in its and and nobody asked so we'll move on 308 paragraph 2 Christ have been these people watch for the signs of his Advent and rejoice as they should behold the tokens of his coming of their coming king when these things begin to come to pass if you don't have the G see this couple of copies hard copies on the side there by the door then look up and lift up your heads for your Redemption draweth nigh he pointed his followers to the budding trees of spring and said when you now when they now shoot forth you see I know of your own selves that summary's now at hand so likewise ye when ye see these things come to pass know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand luke 21:28 30 and 31 he's where we left off yesterday and so I'm just checking something again I'm so familiar we're doing it in the book of Matthew the reason why she's picked Luke not Matthew which is why I keep front happy to go back over this he's because of verse 28 verse 28 luke 21:28 and when these things begin to come to pass then look up and lift up your heads for your Redemption draweth nigh that verse that's common is not found in Matthew or Marcus you need to Luke so she had to go back into it you have to go to Luke to drop that statement in okay if you if you were to compare the three Gospels how many of you use ethought so it's the most of you what I normally do on the longer trimester is actually sort of run through a sword and just show people how to use some features that sometimes are not familiar with so if you've got a sword up now if you don't know if you put up a sword if you go to the top obviously there's a toolbar and above the toolbar there's a list of words it says vile Bible commentary you'll see that yeah if you go to Bible and click that the first thing you'll pick up it says harmony can you see that yeah anybody can't see it if they're doing it right now in the MacBook II I think they still have it but that looks slightly different yeah slightly different so if you click harmony it will pull up a pop-up window which has got two books it's called Crockett and Robertson and what these are it's literary harm it's called harmony of the Gospels and if you're in any of the Gospels it'll tie up that statement whether it's in Matthew Mark Luke or John it parallels them so it's a really useful feature without you having to manually search if a particular passage say like with bookmark 7 31 to 36 just is just on the board is two random verse if you wanted to see whether that passage in mark is in Luke or John instead of doing a word search on it you can go to the harmonies and they're pretty accurate I mean like 99 whatever percent that they they do a really good job and they can parallel if you find it one pad in one book where you can see in another book so if you weren't familiar with that it's a really useful feature any questions on that ever you can see it yeah so they say if you went to Luke 21 and you went to Bible Harmony so Luke 21 verse 1 it's going to tie that up to mark 12 40 41 to 44 and if you read it to read the two parallel versions you'll see that they actually tie up pretty well any questions it's not working is the harmony pulling up you're able okay no say say if you if you if you were in Luke 21 verse 1 as an example so 21 one would be highlighted in your normal Bible okay okay then you go to harmony and Robertson they should say 1 3 8 yep Jesus closely observes the contributions in the temple yeah and once it's something you can go back and highlight the individual versus as well and it will it will change but he says verses 1 to 4 now I think you have to do the verses first he's not doing that and in the toolbar above it says harmony selection it lists all the different stories where while storing 138 and the next one is 139 sitting on the Mount of Olives so it just does it all in chronological order it's it's a I think it's a useful tool okay so we were looking at Luke 21 yesterday and as I said the reason why she's gone to Luke not Matthew and Mark is because verse 28 that statement isn't in the other two books so we were discussing what those things were it says when these things begin to come to pass then look up for your redemption draweth nigh then she skips verse 29 spake unto them a parable behold the fig tree and all the trees so you remember we were having a discussion brother Daniel and guess myself and I was asking how what were these things and when these things begin to come to pass so everyone agrees I think the beginning of them is the Sun Moon and stars particular the Sun in the moon Sun and Moon 1780 we would agree with that yes and I'm arguing the reason why it's highlighting that passage not the earth sorry that event not the earthquake is because this is the more significant one and what makes it more significant 1773 does so we've covered that Jesus doesn't even mention the earthquake you have to go to the revelation to find that so when we looked at this verse 25 the Sun and the moon 1780 the Stars 1833 the distress of nations and upon the earth distress of Nations with perplexity to seeing the waves roaring so rather than you've skipped over that a couple of times that you familiar with what that's referring to verse 25 the distress of nations okay that's fine most people are on because it's not discussed much and Ellen White doesn't really discuss it extensively so sister Bronwyn mentioned it when you'd missed it so deregister Brahmi what's that talking about the retention going on between a couple countries okay well that's enough details that's an accurate statement of what's going on the distress of Nations is that the stress of Europe Europe is being distressed because there's issues I guess you could say in the Middle East but it's it's boarding on to their their territories so what's distressing them Egypt there's tension between Egypt and Turkey sometimes I don't think we're aware that when we are the pioneers the Millerites pick up an event the the event that they're picking up as a fulfillment of prophecy may not be the same event that the world is picking up you know the world and the newspapers they could target one event and our focus would be another event so as an example in 1840 what event are we picking up what's the date everybody knows the date we pick up August 11 but the world could and often does pick up other events in that year and perhaps the one that's more famous than August 11th is September the 11th September the 11th 9/11 the conflict is escalated and without going into the details there's I call it war call it a battle there's war where what nation okay so we're not that familiar with it because we don't talk about it in the movement we just talk about August 11th and we have some vague idea that there's some ultimatum given to Egypt by the European powers that say if you don't submit we're going to make war against you we're going to defend Turkey which is all good and well but a little bit later there's actually a skirmish that happens in Syria so the story of Syria and Damascus is involved in 1840 which it's something that I don't think we've focused enough on it said 9/11 so we know has prophetic significance so what I'm saying is the Millerites focused on one event but there are other events that need investigating and often they can be as it's not more significant than the ones that we target or they did it's all connected together it's all connected with the with the same struggle but it's it there's not a singular event in that history you know there are multiple events that are going on we just choose one when I say wait we're directed to the one from revelation 9 so it's not to say that we've done anything wrong it's just to identify the fact that there are other events going on and sometimes we need to consider those events okay and you just get my thought oh so that was 1840 you can go back to 1838 of course so this distress of nations is distress of Europe because of the tension between these two Islamic powers verse 26 men's hearts failing them for fear and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth for the powers on heaven of heaven shall be shaken 27 and then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory so you remember that oh you can remind us brother Daniel what are you saying that is okay saying this is 1844 okay so you're going to make that 1844 and verse 28 and when these things begin to come to pass then look up and lift up your heads for your Redemption draweth nigh so she doesn't mention 28 I wasn't so here that she mentions 28 31 32 what's 28 so let me draw that out so we've got 1780 she's I say she he Christ has skipped 1755 it's not significant in 1780 we've got 1833 and then we've got 1840 I put 38 and then you've got October 44 and then you've got verse where you going to place verse 28 and when these things begin to come to pass okay tell me what these are one two three four yeah so I'll just put it I'm okay to put it 80 40 I'll just put it a little bit after it's because you have to have seen it first okay so you're saying verse 28 is here when you've seen these four events then you know redemption is coming then 29 spake unto them apparel will behold the fig tree and all the trees verse 30 when they shoot forth do you see and know of yourselves that summer is now night at hand so likewise when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand so we'll do 31 so likewise when you see these things these things are those four things or more what okay so for those of us weren't here yesterday Ranma Daniels was laying out these verses differently but just as the class closed tell us how you were laying out yesterday so that we we we would we got to verse 28 so verse 29 behold they come to parable the fig tree and all the trees and other white skips verse 29 remember it's not there when they now shoot forth you see and know of yourselves that summer is now is now night hand so whence the shooting forth or the budding for you said that was 911 yeah okay so so don't I'm okay I'm not trying to corner you I just want to make sure that how we approach that because the way you approach this the way most people approach it so I'm not saying you're wrong I'm saying let's just work work I will i wade through that so you're gonna I'm gonna put 29 with that and you're saying this is 911 all right because you're not the only person who looked at it this way and I'm not saying you're wrong so that's 29 or 30 so likewise when you see these things come to pass know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand so where you can put 31 or where did you okay so again so I'll put it here you say in these acts sort of 9/11 but it's obviously 9/11 has to have happened first so this would be verse 31 verily I say to you this generation shall not pass till all be fulfilled so we'll go with 32 when it says for all of what where you going to start you're all I'll put some verses down while you're thinking so if we are in the end of the world has to be all that happened before so before we just no unease can someone just verify that I've put these verses in the right place so no one says anything then your degree my dump I've I put the verses correctly very stringy verse 27 here verse 27 they're gonna see the Son of man coming in the clouds this is October and then 28 he said it's in October but you have to have seen that event so that is so it's sometime after October but you could do it straight after I'm not asking you to explain your your understanding just wanna know how brother Daniels laid that out I'm not trying to correct him yet maybe correct just want to make sure that that's what he say yeah especially these ones because because I'd already laid these out and we'd all agreed with them yeah brother Daniel so we're in 32 it says this generation shall not pass them all be fulfilled what what is all that's going to be fulfilled how far you want to go back what Jesus just sad so when Jesus says the generation shall not pass till all things going to be fulfilled you're going to take you back to say like verse five you know the beginning of the prophecy everything okay so you're going to say this generation equals whoa because you got 2,000 years of history so what you're going to define the generation okay so you're gonna say this generation shall not pass till all be fulfilled so you're saying all is just one yeah okay so if he's this generation that goes all the way back to say verse five haven't it might be a little bit afterwards depend on how we can pick up their vision you're not happy with that model then you're going to tell us what a generation means that doesn't make any sense to you make sure applications you know when talks about a factor of everything I've got that life but the first one you said is this long history and I'm saying that makes sense to you so a little bit generation I'm gonna put two thousand years and this is the generation yeah that's that's what you got us one application the primary one you say yeah but you can't then define what a generation means it's it doesn't actually mean anything it just means like other Christians or guess is that we is that we gonna take a generation means Christians okay so your second alternative was 9/11 so that's the so you're going to pick up 9/11 and I'll go to the second Advent I think that's what you're gonna do and you're going to call this a generation so now you say all of the events is just one event if you go straight in that logic but in our days you know these remarks the time of the end isn't even here by the way sorry the formalization that's not even here either yes for a musician the message is it SISTAR's yeah and that's the same year that community restart is the coincidence isn't it 31 then formalization is 31 not 33 it's not picking up the formalization is it's picking up the signs you're not going to say we know that Jesus is coming because William Miller got his credentials you're not gonna argue that are you cuz wolf doesn't know that and the people in the in Europe don't know no one knows that the people in the next city don't even know that no one knows that he's got his credentials right they can't say oh we heard this this farmer got credentials that we know jesus is coming can't you can't do that can you obvious warning I want to read the read the verses as they say so you're saying is either one of these two options so you're gonna say all is just one yvaine I'd find that problematic I don't think you do as well because you're not trying to defend that so then what you're gonna do is you're gonna say okay we'll just skip all of that and we'll just do effective every busy okay but the problem with we're doing that is you're just giving us a linear line here because you want your what you've done is you've tagged 911 progressively with 1840 so if you do that you can't then say we're going to do effective every vision or not absolutely 9:00 upon line when you say that yeah because you're going to line up on line tell me where you're going to break the line so once you've broken the line here then where you're going to put verse 31 does if we understand where these dialogues going so I'm only focusing on down you're not that late people ask question because are you seeking running through his logic you better to cross-reference how you're running through your own logic so just have my question now you're going to do line up on line you're going to break that line so where you going to put 31 because you put it after 911 let me ask this when you have to move 31 you can have to move this so where you going to move it to so you're going to put 31 here yeah okay you you might get the right answer but I think it's a dangerous way to do that because you're parallely 911 with 1840 which is outside the context or the realm of this this narrative because you told me 911 you told me 911 was placed there because of what you didn't Satan's because of Islam you said it's because of so you said you used a verse to mark 911 right and you're wrong Lee but then you can't go back and say by the way we know 9/11 is 1840 this I'm going to place it here so you're gonna put verse 28 and verse 31 here yeah which therefore means you put verse 28 here yeah after 97 yeah okay so now you say in these things we're going to come to pass and where even the place verse 27 still where it is 27 is October 22nd 1844 yeah and then you still going to place verse 28 after October 28:28 you've got 28 and 31 here are you still placing them after October since the Cathy told me why not hotel brother Daniel why not it's those when these things begin its I'm working with the beginning he's ok with the beginning we've got the beginning here but I wouldn't know what that these are he says it's for events he's picked up four events one two three four and then he says all of these four events then you know your redemptions gonna draw nigh I'm asking how she sees it okay so let's run this through a little bit here you told us this was Daniel 7:13 I think so if I just do some fake way marks here don't mean anything and I go to here what way marker this would be that's gonna parallel this one give me a Bible verse yeah I've got seven thirteen give me the Bible verse to this one that's parallel in this one so Danny 12:1 you can see Christ coming clouds of heaven you do parallels they can see that you can see him coming to cagin 12:1 for James I can't see okay yeah yeah I'm I'm saying that you could give me that you give me the verse okay I don't have all the answers to all of this I'm just running through the logic just as all of us are so don't think I've got all the answers I'm just trying to work out what you're saying to see if it kind of works brother Graham which burst sister tests right just rppa argue the minute anyone sister over V I'm asking for a verse that these are gonna come into clouds this is the cloudy 7:13 is clouds that's what he asked that's what he said it's not missing it and then they shall see the Son of man coming in clouds so he picked up seven thirteen clouds and I'm saying will give me the parallel one here cuz he's doing line upon line he's broken the light verse 3 BC Jesus coming in the crew who's not trick questions maybe wait let me check with why I asked this question because maybe I'm mistaken he's saying verse 27 yeah I've got verse 27 here you want it from the same person no not in the same fashion I'm gonna go to Revelation 1:7 yeah revelation 1:7 behold he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him and they also which pierced him and all Kindred's of the earth shall wail because of him even so amen okay we that's coming in the clouds yeah verse 27 cities comes in the clouds verse 13 says he comes in the clouds yeah and revelation 117 comes in the clouds so just picking up cloud cloud cloud I'm just paralleling clouds but you just said yesterday that he can prove text like this part of the problem that we're going to face is how we read versus how the Miller writes read versus and what the vs. actually say look we've got to deal with all of those three issues at once and I think it's always useful to try and understand Miller right thinking and so we can cross-reference our thinking so you're going to line up on line is that what you told me to do yeah okay so what is line upon line mean in this context in this study that we're doing brother Larry fight if he says okay he had this line here like that which is a progressive line all the way to the end then he said that we will break it so we broke the line what what is he doing now with these verses if to do to break the line and make it line upon line which one's the second line okay so this is the second line and this is the first line there you code back with brother Daniel yeah okay so if we're going to do you did the first line yeah verse 27 here now do the second line for us okay the second lie where you gonna put verse 27 on the second line what in what event is verse 27 in the second line let's just read that necessary second Second Coming which is that one yes so tell me why you thought I was doing something wrong day right history with our children October 22nd it's not the second coming it's the close of probation so how you gonna power low verse 27 you have to force it yeah the way you do is I look to the event in the middle right history and damn I yeah so I don't go anymore rip divorce I know what the event you're talking about yeah that's the way that's the way we do it like I said like we do in army but we look to the event that's October 22 so now we have the event we don't need to to go with the verse anymore because we already have the event and now you're gonna parallel the event and if in the event is the close of probation for us so the verse Hashem acts so you've got October 22nd verse 27 yeah and you've got second Advent can be secondary up its verse 27 but what we normally do is we know the event is October 22nd so in our line that's the close of probation so that should mean that verse 27 is also the close of probation that's one that's correct probably it's not but that's what normally we do so we read verses 21 28 30 31 yeah let's go back to gc3 oh wait before we have a fire Christ had been in his people watch for the signs of of his Advent yeah and then she was going to tell you that is verses 28 30 and 31 I think we progressively okay so she's going progressive leader so she's going progressively she's gonna pick up 911 yeah okay so she's picking up 911 when it says the second Advent from verses 25 to 32 where is the second Advent which verses that Christ has been these people watch for the signs of his Advent and rejoice that they should behold the tokens of their coming king so you're saying none of these verses pick up the second Advent yes none of them are dealing with thousands all of these are talking about signs yeah I'm arguing she's going progressively that's what she does she says the the former rain is Acts of the Apostles and the former rain is a revelation 18 that's progressive she's going all the way from 34 from 31 to 911 and we need to cut the line and make parallel but here she's going down everybody agree with that the in any in these verses you don't even see the second Advent sister Kathy doesn't agree where do you see the second Advent you guys see that rather than you know not parallel what Ellen White says yeah I can't see that because verse verse verse 28 27 verse 27 what verse 31 is a sign of if she's just a scam in verse 28 what is this sign like if this has already came so the trees are not a sign okay so if you've got verse 27 which is before verse 30 31 it's all that sequence that's what you're saying is out of sequence yeah actually I'm not saying it's out of sequence no yeah I'll call you but can this kathy says it is if it was then you're gonna come back and say then you need to explain uses the Cathy needs to explain how thirty one thirty thirty one talks about signs after the second coming there for twenty seven can't be the second coming that's your argument yeah sister Bromley 327 isn't a second coming so you agree with brother Daniel is your argument something totally different okay so I leave it for the moment then brother Gregory it's not specific question it's just like you you have any input to give and he thought so you see some contradiction somewhere oh yeah exactly what's already been said okay brother Nathan can you speak a little bit louder and then 30 and 31 now she has it here it's kind of it's like is a precursor just to 28 you know it's out of sequence okay so he's saying that des repeating in large going on in these verses that's his that's his answer to what you're seeing he's not talking about lines no no he's not talking about cutting any lines he just says there's some Bible verses and it's and that it's a repeating enlarge of the verses that's not cutting lines if you're going to repeat an enlarged how many things have you got because the word says repeat so sorry it's only we say only one thing repeating like me you've only got one line not two lines that you can add in that break in or you've got to hyster that you're gonna put a break in so I'm not arguing that that you could break this history and make it into two lines but repealing enlarge is not in the strictest sense line upon line or breaking lines it's just you get a statement and you're going to repeat the statement with too many details okay so we in our lesson yesterday we closed and I said verse 29 begins with the statement and he spake unto them a parable and this parable brother Nathan they say in which is the fig tree the trees is looking at this whole story or vision or prophecy in a different perspective but when I say the whole of the vision we'd have to ask ourselves where does this parable begin does it begin I picked verse 5 verse 5 probably isn't the right one to pick you know verse 5 adversity does this power will go all the way there or is it only a certain portion of the prophecy that's what we need to ask to ascertain how we deal with the rest of the passages which is the problem that you had here when you do that so if you can see that from verse 29 there's a break in in the narrative and he's now switching to something else which we're going to call or which privations calling a repeating enlarge that means what he's already said he's gonna restate now if you don't see that or do that then you're gonna have this dilemma of how to approach this is that the whole story it's relevant I would say even an illustration of what he had said before but he's giving them know of the job so he's critiquing what ban illustration anyone else got any thoughts on this okay okay we'll get to there in a minute she wants she wants to move these verses to begin focusing on the begin that's what she suggested so before we before we tackle these I just want to make sure that we're on the same because I'm not this is this is what we started off with but before we before we get to that to see if it's correct or not just want to make sure that we're seeing that from 29th on where these are repeating enlarge so if we can if we see that let me just let me just come back to this one here let's just come back to this so the problem is the way other White's approaching this problem if we're going to oh yeah are you happy that it's repeating enlarge forever Daniel and you had your hand up sister that is it and the big tree that a generation can be conceived to the desert plant so as the fig tree is is quite important we're coming into expectation of Christ that the we're seeing the signs that the fig tree is going to be putting forth fruit so we know that our redemption is drawing near so the fig tree won't these things well to come to pass the harvest won't come the tree won't end its life cycle until all of the things they did previously and I think it can make an application for the verses to previous okay everyone see the problem here this is not the second Advent but you've got clouds and this is the second Advent and you've got clouds and then white speaking about the second Advent we agree with that she's not talking about Jesus moving from one apartment to another if we recognize that problem which we need to address and we also see that from verse 29 he's talking about something else it's repeating in large so the story ends in verse 28 oh you okay with that now to say that the story ends in verse 28 isn't accurate because it says when these things begin to come to pass then look up because your Redemption draws nigh so 28 is just a statement when does the stories finish because not 28 28 is just a comment so it finishes in 27 so the story finishes in 27 if you're okay with that and then if we went to the parable begins in 29 then you've got 30 and then it says 31 so likewise when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of heaven so the kingdom of God is nigh at hand so we can parallel 28 and 31 which you've already done so the kingdom of heaven coming close is your Redemption drawing nigh we okay with that so Redemption is in the context of when you're going to parallel this what is when it says your Redemption what is the redemption in in the in the words of the verses twenty-eight does not come off the 27 it's not an event you agree with that so the last event is 27 so 28 says war paraphrase 28 anyone brother Graham paraphrase 28 so when you see the Bates can't happening then you know Christ is about to come you disagree with that astronomy that's a long no you don't disagree so brother gray I'm saying that redeem or redemption is what second coming g-great 27 is the second company because it's the end of everything yeah so if that's the age 27 is the end of the story then 28 says look at those things because as you see those things happening you know that your redemption is about to finish or come to its completion or about to happen so that'll be the second Advent drop to 31 so likewise when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of God is nearly here so we can parallel that I'll just put Kingdom so the redemption the second coming and the kingdom are all parallel concepts or parallel words so if we see that then sister taste he's saying oh no before we go there what's the final devein the final thing that it's all leading to this is it not yeah so if you went back to verse 28 it says when you see these things whatever these things are then you know that this is nearly here when you see those things this is nearly here and we okay with that who doesn't everyone understand that this is this is a focus and you have to see some things before this thing and when you see those things then you know this thing's about to happen if we're okay with that then that's why sister Stacy say this is in the wrong place this thing needs to move 28 to it 31 of the same statement so they need to move because the final thing that you're looking for is the clouds ignore this bit I'm just put I'm just putting it because we've just got any structure this is the final thing this is the clouds the redemption second come in the kingdom so that these things must be before that so you can't put 28 and 31 here has to be before 4:27 do these things because these things are pointing you to what did pointing you to 27 so they have to come before so 28 when these things begin to come to pass then look up and 31 so likewise when you see these things come to pass know that the kingdom of God is is nigh at hand so you're saying let's put 28 here not thirty coz 30 czar parable I leave the parable out of it because 31 is the commentary of the parable if you're okay with that avi they're connected but the parable stands on its own parable is just an example cuz 31 is correct yes I think that I think I'm okay to do that so you wanted off you they're connected so you want to drop these back to here brother James but in verse 31 it says so when you see these things more than one event so I would put it after 1840 with Maria it says when they begin so you should be you should be able to identify the science as they begin please you will put him here anyone else Oh bagels by the book I can see at least in that what we're trying to show now that first 28 probably was fitler Tessa saying and verse 31 is repeating out of but it's looking at it more after the fact and it was a bit after 1840 okay so that's what brother James says he was he didn't I he said that but I didn't sort of let him do that so he was saying 28 would go here and 31 would go here so he's splitting them so 31 was all of these and 28 was of that 128 and when these things begin to come to pass then look up went a draw it's nice oh sorry for your Redemption draweth nigh and 31 says is nigh so joyous night is night so you say it's drawing near and he isn't it okay sister takes too fast you're gonna put 28 and say your Redemption draws nigh and you're saying that's something that's not spoken about before because timely only isn't even spoken in this passage so you're gonna say 28 which is no longer just an explanation of 27 is gonna be creating a new way mark that's not even discussed because you're gonna cite you again now you're going to be redeemed in 1798 or am i misunderstanding what you're saying and when these things this is plural not singular evenly 28 when these things begin to come to pass when these things come to pass that's what the dur that's how the Congress 28 says begin verse 31 says come to pass so first 28 highlights the beginning verse 31 highlights passed after they have passed one is at least art are you I'm okay with that but 28 is plural not this it's not these things that they're picking up on is the word come to the word come they begin and come to pass that's what they're putting together one has begin unhappy the twenty I is talking in the Savannah yeah twenty-eight is talking in this event yes can i problem with that me either me nervous brother James what he's picking up on is the in verse 31 where it says when you see these things come to pass so he saying it after they have happened after those events after that he is putting it at 80 in 40 yeah I'm okay with that I'm not oculi I'm not arguing that but it's just the test was making a different point separating the ravine from this economic yeah which is a different point yeah so I'm saying I'll put that one I'm will talk about in a second but 28 says when you see the beginning on all of these events then you know this is the marker to begin your story yes yeah and 31 is saying when one of these events have happened then you know it's near yes so there may be a subtle difference between the two but I don't think it's a big one any questions on that okay so it's just wrong Levine you're saying because you look unhappy before the redemption in verse 28 is not the second Advent you tell me what the redemption is just what the way mark of that is not what redeem means before you do that brother Theodore had his hand up sorry what different is we I'm struggling with 28 just to say 28 means this one because it says when these things begin and this is not these they pout there's multiple ones I'm not gonna I'm not gonna you know say you have to put 28 here which is where I thinking we would have put 28 yeah he's talking about all the event but all of these things have to have happened before your redemption comes yes so where you're gonna place redemption what way mark is that what event is that same which is what you said to test then I would be highlighting an event that is not even mentioned but either 1798 or 1844 I want to take out 1844 from that because in the passage it's not even 1844 we just we construct ourselves this is the second advent that's why I said he ignore yeah that's why I said I would be doing the same thing that she's that Jess lead so yes that's where I would be like okay that's why I will resonate so if I cross that out and I say this is the second Advent it says when you see all of these things happen then you know that October 1844 is about to happen that's what all this is about because that's the punchline verse 28 is the punchline and you're saying the punchline now has been shifted from the second Advent to October 1844 and then you're going to give a parable and then you're going to say the parable identifies what way mark that's what I'm saying that I saw the contradiction we may be enough okay so this is the test the parable says the kingdom of God so you're saying the kingdom of God is not the redemption because then he doesn't become a repeat and enlarge it becomes identified two separate events you Greek that's what you say so he's no longer repeating in large don't read that this is correct okay I just have a thought if you were looking at these verses and we're saying that it's pointing to second Advent I don't have a problem with that but then don't we always look at some verses and always make another application of them if there's more than one application and the only reason why I'm saying that I'm not trying to complicate anything here but if you go back to the very beginning of the chapter that we started out with verses heralds of the morning and page 299 the very first statement in them in the whole thinks it's one of the most solemn and yet glorious truths revealed in the Bible is of Christ's second coming so we know it culminates in Christ's second coming it says to complete the great work of redemption so if that completes it then there must be other steps that he took beforehand so so the the whole the work that Christ is doing has there's different facets of the work that he's been doing along the way and when we know where he is now and we know where he went in October of 1844 and we know that he's coming into clouds and so I I can look at these verses and see at one level it's pointing to the second coming and I can look at these verses also in another light and maybe see that it did it did in some way maybe it's pointing to October 1844 this is what you said is essentially what brother Daniel was saying when they started commenting on these passages and I'm saying it doesn't really matter what when I say you I mean full of you it does matter what you think because what we want to know is what Ellen White thinks because if we don't understand what other white things then what we're doing is just trait in history or explanations just based upon our own whims you know there's no there's no yeah there's no basis for that so before we can start playing with putting October 22nd in here we need to see what other white is saying we'll take for the Nathan when verse 28 when she says when these things begin to come to pass then look up and lift up your heads I think up your heads to the redemption so I think they're looking at their redemption on it they are these tokens and people go back to great controversy that's what all this is talking about I like the point they you mentioned earlier that all this is talking about is the tokens so the reduction she's talking about the tokens and so I like the point in the brother Bob just brought up where the chapter begins and says the culmination of redemption is the second Advent which is what I think verse 28 is saying it's talking about the culmination it's all talking about the second Advent now as we I really want to try to get back onto first angels message although I think a lot of this is useful because it it it highlights how we approach inspiration but what I do want to say when brother Daniel says there's this discrepancy here and the reason there's this discrepancy is because we picked up and in heat C he said well I already said you can't prove text safely it's dangerous to do that in isolation because if you proof text and I said bro cloud and cloud then you're going to get this problem and he says it doesn't work so everybody remember that conversation okay so it's correct so what would that be teaching us when we approach this then we're going to do this line upon line read this line upon line can we say that this is correct the answer is no October 22nd does not line up with the second Advent we okay with that yeah I mean painting you obvious so we would be doing this we're going to put October 22nd here and we okay with that so the problem that we that we face is that we teach coming in the clouds Daniel 7:13 is the Miller right version of revelation 1:7 if you like that's how we conceptualize it and when I drew that you can see that it's actually not correct does that make sense so if we were going to do the Miller right line this is the Miller right line and this is our line through okay with that what we don't have to do is we have to see what way mark is this one for us and then we're forced to ask ourselves what what's that one for them and we haven't done that properly or at all perhaps in our movement but what we've done is we've just casually got that over here and not really thought about it because we go into this line and we say verse 27 is October 22nd because we have 713 and we because we attach it that way using proof texting without really thinking about it you end up getting into this dichotomy here where you have way marks not lining up both cleared up so it wasn't as a part of the problem there Miller writes believed that October 22nd was the second coming and so we have just taken that that argument we haven't looked and in a sense I mean you could sort of argue well that's beginning of the Day of Atonement so it's this event that culminates in a second coming but the thing is we've just kind of left that there and not really analyzed so we've taken the lie of the Millerites the untruth the incorrectness and turn that into truth and be an only it's been reinforced in our thinking so much don't we end up paralleling these two and so when I drew it out rather than you so straight away you can't parallel those two things because October 22nd on only metric he's not the second Advent but you line them up with clouds so all I've done is I've just adjusted the lines so then how they work but now we've got two missing way marks now because we understand about line upon line and we we understand if we were to look at what October 22nd was we could we could find this one relatively easily perhaps we might not if I were to ask you what is this event in our line we might have a few different answers but would probably quickly coalesce into a into an answer but this is the one that I find interesting but if we were going to create a Miller right line what would this event be so someone had to hand up so before we have that before before you give me what you think it is what I wonder what one of us firstly is the logic correct do we see the logic do we see how we've got into this problem before we even try and shoot and say you know what would these weigh marks even be the fact is our the way marks to find because if you're not expecting to find hidden treasure you'll never find it you don't stumble just over treasure if you're not looking for it sometimes so the first thing is I want to see do we agree with this logic that we'd have to create extra additional way marks if we do if we don't then there's no point in saying well I think it's 1888 or whatever we might think that it is it wouldn't serve any purpose because the question would be well how'd you know you're even correct to look for a new way mark okay with that so I'm assuming no one's maybe maybe we need even more time to think about it because maybe you haven't thought about it I don't give you opportunity to really go back and think is this the way to do their line I'm gonna take this out because the line would finish there in that context probably though you had you hand that well so you're just I'm trying to clarify what it is we're we're looking for so you're saying that the Miller writes October 22nd they thought was the second coming but it wasn't so you're saying that because in our line we say I put that so what are you asking about this other way mark because if ours ends at the second coming when there's at the end of the second company yes so okay so yeah I'm not my question kamila right line so obviously this would be the second Advent I'm basing upon from a Daniel's argument that he's going to break the line yes if you break the line and then the Miller right line is this one whenever born now we don't exist because the line finishes here so the question is if they don't get there if they make a mistake then their line isn't completed then what happens is either we approach this with some kind of progression or we and we have to approach it in another way which he's saying his line upon line then he sent see we have to relook at the whole of that those verses in the way we're going to approach them and then once you do that if you're gonna if you're gonna do that and say okay the Millerites mess up they don't have a second Advent in their history then this becomes a line if we do that then October 22nd 1844 disappears it's not in these verses at all all you've got in the verses are 1780 1833 1840 and all of these are going to bring you to the second Advent and everything in between isn't scenes you're going to make a line of progression which is what these verses teachers did well there's lots of thoughts but one of the things just dealing with the lines being complete when I look at every line every line does not complete that is there's always something that they expect that that's incomplete in in my understanding of every line except ours ours is the only line that really completes but those lines don't necessarily carry on and on and on they end but they end in completely does that make sense so if fairly completely why do they end in completely because all of those lines are pointing to the second coming why aren't why it doesn't come back and why are not dating the second coming why is this not line the line of the second coming what every line is the line of the second phone then why would he not complete in the second come because Jesus doesn't come back why because of the people so there's something they fall away before the second coming occurs that's my understand Bob it's the same thing neat is that those are the people people aren't ready if they weren't ready this was just a scam cuz he says your Redemption draws nigh that's a lie they're not ready of course they were ready if they were ready why pick up 1798 why not do this in 89 why not do this at the real time not the fake time they must have been ready this servant of the Lord says be worried and also I think it's our understanding of the second Advent because in 100 AD any white state fear was as a conductor even though Christ never came so it's what we understand the end of the line to be that's why that argument is worth is how we conceptualize what the end of that line is this is probably none of these verses brother Daniel put it there for us because he said Christ comes in the clouds he picked up the word clouds from Daniel 7 it's not in the verses the only reason I put it in there is because when you go back to the middle-right history people have said the Miller right line ends in October 22nd so I didn't want to just ignore that and I'm saying if we were to go with the middle right line and we were put October 22nd because this is a cloud and there's a cloud here well this is teaching me is in the middle right line this two clouds it's not a single a cloud but what we do is we make a cloud in the cloud and and then make them parallel to but they're not need to separate cloud events in one cloud and there's another cloud you think yeah there's a cloud to go into the most holy place and there's a cloud to come out of the most holy place so Ellen White says in at least one place is not more the Christ was supposed to come back I was just saying this way before 1888 long ago he was supposed to come back so the question is is that real or is that fake my understanding it's real he was supposed to come back he wanted to come back if that was the case then all of this was genuine and the people ready for it but they make mistakes and my listening is if you make mistakes there's a price to pay for that and we're not supposed to make mistakes and I'm gonna go further as saying their mistake was rebellion disobedience got tosem God doesn't make mistakes as he so when he says here's God God gives a message to the angel and when he transmitted this information there was no mistake the angel does war transmits information to all the people that live on the earth and the mistake is here in the transmission of the message and if you're giving a wrong information there's a price to pay for that the prices you're not gonna see the second advent now when we go back to other lines Christ the light of Christ Christ the light of Moses they were never going to be the second Advent all we do in in those lines he's picking up typology and seeing parallels but the middle right line this was meant to be the culmination of everything it was meant to be the second Advent it wasn't some kind of type for us but it's in their failure that they end up not completing their mission and they become a type for us and what we need to be careful is we don't replicate their mistakes and we do you know we fall into the same trap so that they're falling into in fact we use their mistakes to argue what we claim to be the truth and that was just one example of that we paralleled these two things together okay so we've run out of time to me it's not even to search for what this way mark would be it's to recognize that it should be there hopefully we're okay with that let's pray Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness and mercy will ask and pray for a blessing upon the study that we've done this morning some of these things may be new they may not be straightforward for people to understand but we ask that as we go through our day and meditate upon these truths upon these thoughts that you would speak to us individually and show us if we've said or done anything wrong and to correct us on those things so that we might all come into unity and harmony on these truths or ask for a blessing upon the food that we're to eat in Jesus's name we pray amen