What are the tokens of the Second Coming p.1

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Publish Date: 9/9/2018
Speaker Name: Parminder Biant
Language: English
Channel Group: ASOTP
YouTube Title: (09-09-18) Afternoon - What are the tokens of the Second Coming-vgDFH6Iex-E
YouTube ID: vgDFH6Iex-E

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Oh me if you don't have access to the great controversy there are three copies by the door in this morning's class we spoke about the relationship between the great controversy and the book early writings I suggested that early writings was the book that the Lord brought forth to prepare God's people for the Sunday law in the 1888 history it was the work that he was going to use to prepare God's people for the latter rain that was coming and for the work to be completed that work didn't happen as we know and based upon that premise I'm saying that the great controversy is the book I guess we all really realized that it's the book of our generation the book that God is going to use to pour out the Holy Spirit upon his people during a Sunday long period we spoke that the book early writings was essentially a compilation not a true compilation of three independent books the first one was Christian views and experience of Ellen White which is written in 1851 second one was a supplement which was in 1854 and the third one was spiritual gifts I said 57 but it's actually 58 1858 so that's just a reminder of what we spoke about this morning and we also mentioned Testaments to church volume one how well and why it refers to the church being laid to seer and that is in 1857 she picks up that subject and you can find that on page 1 for one from testimonies for the church volume on that so that coding would be one to one for one the chapter title is be zealous and repent to obviously taking from Revelation chapter 3 and I think bro Theodore commented that James White was all he's speaking about the church being in the latest same condition and he speaks about that in 1850 but he marks the church going into ladies here in 1845 if you see the comments that he makes then but he's that's in one article in another article he's telling us that in 1850 the church is definitely Babylon be pix 1845 right what did I say ladies here sorry ladies here he picks up 1845 because of the work of William Miller and Himes and the second Advent Association yep are there any questions on on that okay so in great controversy chapter 17 we got to page 301 paragraph three three zero one paragraph three just want to have a quick review the being of the chapter which is two nine nine paragraph one first sentence one of the most Solomon yet most glorious truths revealed in the Bible is that of Christ's second coming to complete the work of redemption so that's a reasonably straightforward sentence it's identifying that the second Advent is one not the only one it's one of the most solemn and yet most glorious truths there are other truths in the scriptures besides a second Advent we got to 301 paragraph three as I said and I think we've got a bit further than that actually all of these paragraphs have essentially dealing with the second Advent and she just goes one passage after another in the Bible that deals with this subject to the second ad-din she quoted from Jude job Psalms Isaiah Habakkuk acts first thessalonians revelation over and over again she's quoting many many bible passages that deal with that's that subject then we got to 301 paragraph three and the first sentence there about his coming plaster the glories of that restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began so we spoke about what the clustering was and we mentioned what those glories were so we've got a little picture here clustering is a group grouping together or something and I just gave a picture of you know five people they'll come together these would be the glories that have clustered together they've come together we spoke about the title of the chapter heralds of the morning we're not sure what the herald is sorry what the morning is but the heralds in the plural they're things that foretell we've got Watchmen prophecy a trumpet and we also highlighted that this is someone who is proceeding the King that's essentially what the job of the Herald is someone who warned you that someone of royalty or of of position is just about to come we mentioned John the Baptist we went we didn't actually read the passages although we we read two verses from Isaiah we didn't read from Malachi and I'm suggesting the book of Malachi he's introducing the role of Christ as a priest not a king you can pick up his kingship in Isaiah as well as his sacrificial role but we read from Isaiah 35 and Isaiah 40 in particular in verse 40 sorry chapter 40 verses 3 & 4 I think it was you can see that it's not a Herald that he's been introduced there but a workman someone who repairs the road ahead of this royal personage so we don't meet all of that and brother Tyler's not here brother Tyler spoke about the effect of every vision do you remember that he said this sounds like the effect of every vision to him and that's found where sister Rachel this go over jab in your notes okay so we went to his EQ 12 21 to 23 and I did a little picture here and he said he agreed with that and so he's a couple of other students that we gave his examples of Moses Isaiah Jeremiah and they're all dealing with a singular event here this is just an example all of them are real examples wouldn't go to any particular Bible passage in any of those books and all of these three prophets are dealing with a singular event in the Book of Ezekiel chapter 12 it's the effect of every vision and the word effect essentially means the fulfillment so all of these things are going to be fulfilled the Book of Ezekiel he's dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem so all of these prophets are dealing with that singular event and you get any further than that I don't think so anybody smoke say any I think that's how as far as we got so I don't if we all agree with this that this is that this stories is portraying this concept here about the clustering of the glories it's anybody had a chance to think about that no that's right but Buster being that was just an example there could be anything yeah they could be books Bible verses anything I just put people there just as a concept that we could all think about group of people who come together as a singular group so they're clustering it can be anything it was it doesn't have to be people sister Bromley this one a component a one moment yes so if you're going to go to Ezekiel 12 the the event is the destruction of Jerusalem which is essentially a singular event but there are steps that bring you to that point because Ty Lee didn't want to be pinned down to say it's a particular day where where that destruction happens he wanted to keep it in a generic sense that it's the destruction of Jerusalem 301 paragraph 3 around his coming cluster the glories of that restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began we haven't quite finished that sentence I don't if anybody's got any more thoughts on that because we haven't we haven't really tied in what the restitution of all things is and how it relates to the clustering of the Glory's brief she's a test okay so I'm not saying that's right I'm saying that's what brother Tyler said so you say it suggesting that it doesn't look correct okay so we'll pick that up now they're nice now that you've brought it to our attention I was gonna wait a bit because no one else made a comment on it does everyone understand what she's saying who does it's is the cafe what what is she saying it is at one point but not together did that help brother is it that that didn't help have another guy okay let me say how I see I see the clusters The Gathering is previous paragraph listing the profits as an example from this chapter that's what you seek last spring yes cluster so these these these profits and truths are all pointing even now what that says and you disagree with that but you've just used evidence to do yeah so cuz I could change that to Joe if you wanted me to and Psalms which is what your evidence was you said the paragraphs before one of those prophets a clustering and now you've said so the evidence that you use was mitigating against okay my sister okay this is really large room and I know you started to hear my voice but I struggle to hear your voices we're on it probably these nothing getting picked up on the microphone so what she's saying is this this diagram got introduced because brother Tyler said this all of this chapter as far as we read looks like the effect of every vision and if you remember him saying that so I said what does that mean let's go to the Bible verse I went to the Bible verse so I I drew out what I thought he was saying he and I said let me draw this out do you understand try to understand this verse he in this fashion and he says yes so I gave an example I gave three prophets and all these prophets do speak about the destruction of Jerusalem and they're all visions I've got v1 to v3 and these visions are all talking about this event here so I said is that an example of what we're seeing here and he said yes and a couple of other people said yes it was so since the test has just said her understanding of about his coming cluster the glories of that restitution of all things this diagram does not match that sentence that's what she said so sister Kathy said she agreed so I said well explain that and the evidence she gave actually said that she does agree this is correct so then if you picked up that bit as well you go hey let me let me let me do this thing he gave the example so I just drew what what he said it's it's a concept so we could change this to the second coming if that's all you're saying it's not the event that was that what what there is in question it's the structure of what we're reading so what I try to do is do a pictorial representation of what we read it's not so much the event itself because this was the instruction of Jerusalem but it could have well been the second coming and so sister Cassie said to rub it in but she didn't agree with this and I said okay explain why you disagree so she said we won't go to modisett isaiah jeremiah if you go to the paragraphs before this one that we read in 301 paragraph three you can go to JoVE I don't know revelation acts you go to all these Bible prophets and what they're doing is so I'll give you an example the Apostle Paul speaking by the inspirational white speaking by the spirit of inspiration testified the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel so I could have put first Thessalonians here and Paul and he would have been having a vision that targeted the second coming so it's it's mostly it's mainly the the structure that I'm drawing here it's because someone gave me that example it's not the event itself so the question is is this correct and some people are saying no and some people are saying yes I don't if you have an opinion okay and that's what that's what that sort of picture work is showing the all these men the clustering here since it says so that's not correct and some people haven't opinion some people don't know she didn't say why but but when I asked who agreed with her you said so I asked you why okay brother Bob example people the people are clustering around the truth that's what they're clustering on and all the prophets I've been writing about the truth and at one level or another they're all pointing to the consummation here at the end of time and so it is clustering in my estimation and if you look at the early chapters in great controversy she talks clearly about the destruction that took place literally of Jerusalem of old and says that that is the destruction of the world it represents the destruction of the world so it is right at Christ's second coming so they're the same event just even even the destruction of Jerusalem points to the time of the end okay so what you did was you took the story of Ezekiel and you made an application at the end of the world based upon great controversy chapter one I think which is fine but we didn't need to do that just because I don't want us to get bogged down on what that way mark was it was fact that he is a way mark because we could have taken the first few paragraphs and I could have said that was the second Advent and you would have developed the same structure yeah any other comments we can we take each of those prophets and put dates like 18:40 April so you'll have asked me the question and I ask the questions though you don't ask the last question I ask the class questions you just answer them what you think no I'm not saying that so everything that we read before that you're saying that's not what's been discussed because all of those things are pointing to just one event did you agree with that and you're saying the clustering is not that no but I'm asking about the clustering it says about he's coming class the Flores and I'll see the title of the chapter is heralds of the morning because we're trying to understand what the Herald's are he said the clusters and you're saying they're not what we've just read you just said time at the end I pulled the 19th they're not you didn't I thought you did okay sir 1840 so 1840 in April 19th or not second Advent but every single prophet that she's just given to us isn't doing any of that all those prophets that came centuries before are all pointing to that event so all I asked was that the passages that we've just read and not in reference to this sentence that we're dealing with no D we could don't don't get don't get confused about that they're all talking about the second Advent I can just change those three it de structure would remain the same I'm not arguing that all I'm saying is the paragraph that we've just read acts 1:11 1st Thessalonians 4:16 revelation 1:7 are all talking about one event so right no not it's not each of those events there's only one event all of those prophets are talking about they were they were point into April in 1839 1837 1836 why'd you pick 1840 I don't see my question was rhetorical it wasn't because I know you know what 1840 years what I'm saying why did you pick 1840 because all you're doing is picking a random day and saying that random day here is targeting this event and that's all the evidence that we have in the paragraphs before isn't doing that in the way you just said great oh brother Daniel any any other comments no it's just a tissue do you wanna make a comment she don't tell us what you still like you saying that I don't know who graduated after he won GT and if you bring that into if we might try like that at one moment one of them it doesn't it and for made we look at the okay that didn't make any sense okay what we'll do is we'll read on it so I would if I were to rewrite the sense of other way I would I would say the glories of the truths about his second coming cluster I'm sorry the glories of the truths about a second coming cluster over that restitution of all things you might be pissed because someone disagrees okay so we're gonna read on we will read on next paragraph three a to paragraph one so all she's gonna do now in this paragraph he's just a quote from Isaiah 51 as you a few paragraph you chapters it is then that the peaceful and long-desired kingdom of the Messiah shall be established under the whole heaven and that she's going to give proof text to that next paragraph coming of the Lord has been in all ages the hope of his true followers the Savior's parting promise upon all of it that he would come again lighted up the future for his disciples filling their hearts with joy and hope that sorrow could not quench nor trials dim amid suffering the persecution the appearing of the Great God and our Savior Jesus Christ was the Blessed hope and then she's gonna quote from 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 where they were having this problem I'm sure we're all aware of the problem that they had that they weren't sure about the coming of Christ and they were getting distraught because people are already dying and they thought they were going to be the final generation they were familiar with that problem that they have there and the paul has to tell them the Christ isn't going to come anytime soon so he was he was already aware of this problem back in the 1st century that Christ was not going to come until the man of sin should be revealed centuries into the future next paragraph he's going to quote from revelation 22:20 next paragraph now she's going to she comes out of Bible history and now she's going to start dealing with the New Testament church the Reformers and men that God's raised up during the Dark Ages this is a page 302 paragraph 4 it begins from the dungeon the stake the scaffold was where saints and martyrs witness for the truth comes down the centuries the utterance of their faith and hope again talking about the resurrection next paragraph Luther declared I persuade myself verily that the day of judgment shall not be absent full 300 years does anybody know approximately where Martin Luther is historically the dates someone else said so he's born 1483 and he dies 1546 so he didn't say this when he was born and it was before his death and he says I'm persuading that the day of judgment will not be absent for 300 years God will not cannot suffer this wicked world much longer the great day is drawing near in which the kingdom of abominations shall be overthrown so where were 300 years take you so this would be 1846 this one no it's not I'm just giving his birth and his death it'll be in between in between that so he's predicting that Christ is gonna come around that kind of timeframe he is he is he doesn't really have any prophetic model at least what not one that I'm aware of he must know something to actually mark the 300 I'm guessing that he's using the 1260 to do that without fully understanding 508 538 in you know with the precision that we do but it seems to be talking about that kind of history don't be confused by the the wide gap because he doesn't write this when he's 20 is quite old so it's a lot narrower and not tighter it's almost certain that sits in the 1800s for sure so it's not as vague as we might it might have hurt it might appear on the board we could go back and check it she tells you the book that it's from and you could see that the publication of the book and and we could work it out so she's going on now on to the Reformers talking about this you bein a date remember this morning when we spoke about the Herald's there was a suggestion that maybe this is talking about the Herald's may have been the president Reformation but she's only she's only used in the Protestant Reformation as another example of all of these people that are talking about the second Advent then she took 280 quotes from Knox the next chapter next paragraph and then Baxter so that's G C 303 paragraph 4 she goes from Luther melanchthon knocks baxter next paragraph 304 paragraph 1 prophecy not only foretells the manner an object of Christ's coming but presents tokens by which men are to know when it is near now she's going to quote from Luke 21 and Mark 13 perhaps the one that you're most familiar with is Matthew 24 Matthew 24 mark 13 Luke 21 are all the same conversation they're all they're all the same event Priscilla Oliver tells the manor an object of Christ's coming represents tokens by which men are to know when it is near Jesus said there shall be signs in the Sun and in the moon and in the Stars Luke 21:25 decide shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars of heaven shall fall and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken and then shall they see the Son of and then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory so she switches to mark 13 the Revelator thus describes the first of the signs to precede the second Advent and she's gonna go to revelation 6 verse 12 to pick up the earthquake the Lisbon earthquake so we want to look at the sentence prophecy not only fertility manner an object of Christ's coming but presents tokens by which men are to know when it is near how do you read that sentence it's the ratio you need to project your voice because I don't even get your turn around but people aren't here with the back okay so prophecy shows you way marks to know when the event is near so if I tell me if I'm drawing what you what you just said here's the second advent and you said that there's I think you use the word predictions so we've got these predictions there are all targeting this is that what you said the predictions are talking about that and then you said there's tokens so so that's wrong that picture work if you can do it with words I think that the prophecy is telling you that says tokens like way marks or events that you can see which show that prophecy prophecy not only foretells the manner an object of Christ's coming so is that is that correct yeah you're okay with that one then it says but presents tokens by which men are to know when it is near so what do I need to draw for that I'm just going to let her do it I don't know how to draw it I just think that the prophecy is when so that's what's being predicted so I've got tokens before so I'll do that okay and then what do I want to do proxy not only it not only tells you the manner an object of Christ's coming so it doesn't only do this what else does it do so I'll do this thing and you want me to point to these tokens is that how you see that sentence sorry my sister we've had tokens in this in this verified so it's predicting tokens but not specific to so you agree with this first bit here where it says prophecies I take the word not only prophecies foretell the manner and object of Christ's coming so that's what that top line says you agree with that but it says it doesn't only do that not only does it do that so you must be doing something else do you agree with that so how you read that so what else does it do so prophesy not only for tells the manner of Christ's coming but presents tokens or signs by which men will know that the object all the coming of Christ is near so how would you draw that then okay so I've got tokens here and those tokens how are you connected it says prophecy not only does that but it also presents tokens I'll guess why I'm asking how do you read when it says I'll rephrase the sentence is that as I see it prophecy presents tokens hey is that a fair reading what does that mean if that prophecy presents tokens so prophecy gives signs so I think that's what that says this prophecy you're when you say gives signs you and don't you don't you're saying doesn't mean identifies them so you're you're you're seeing foretelling differently to presenting because prophecy foretells the second coming and prophecy presents tokens and so you're saying foretelling and presenting don't mean the same thing where sister rachel says they're essentially mean the same thing she says prophecies are presenting which means prophecies are foretelling the tokens and you reading it differently I'm gonna say you have to agree I'm just I'm just trying to understand how you're reading that sentence brother James okay so we could put verse numbers here it would still be the same content because I was going to just put p1 over here but I couldn't do that because it wouldn't be and if I've got a prophecy in chapter 1 verse 26 like it can't be hitting two events can only be hitting one event so it has to be the next verse verse 27 so this this could still be one prophet but it's still have to be two different verses but that doesn't tell us what okay how do you see that use do you agree with that is that how you read that sentence so you're saying for fill means presents essentially who take something Oh hotels I mean Hotel sorry Thank You mr. Bromley so how do you read so prophecy foretells you agree with that bit okay so it's the other bit about the tokens what's the relationship between prophecy and tokens No when prophesy you can't see what prophecy does something so brother James were saying that to separate these infers that it may be different persons giving this prophecy but it could be the same but I'm saying you have to separate them because whatever it's being spoken of here isn't the same thing that's been spoken of here do you agree with that so this prophecy is dealing with this is there a prophecy that's dealing with this token but it but but a prophecy by definition is a prediction of something that's about to happen not the only way to understand prophecy because you can't put the prophecy let me ask you another question is this saying that the tokens whenever that statement was made have not arrived yet so even though if they use these two different words for tell them present it seems to I don't know Drive you into saying that they're saying the same thing but it seems like you're conceding that they do brother Daniel you have the enemies that callers are working before you to have the second thing the second thing like the foundation and things is the prophecy are doing hearts are these bands are assigned of the three markets so you mentioned the ten-year Afghan war is there a prophecy about that 10-year war okay so you don't know of one so how did you create the 10-year war us as meaning anything when did you create that sorry you mentioned it so whoever you the movement there's that bu the ten-year war is way marks isn't it seventy-nine is the way mark no 89 you picked up ten years dude you do ten years you've got to weigh marks power and what is the where is the remark of that it's a period of time where the foundations are laid and I think that's a - okay yawns I'm not arguing that a period of time but it's still it's still booking by way marks they still attached to way marks my point Michael my only question is you cube you gave one example the ten-year Afghan war is that spoken about in prophecy well you know when you're going to say no as far as you know it's not so she give when she makes this sentence this introductory sentence she says there shall be signs in the Sun and in the moon and in the stars what is that sentence talking about now the signs is is the Bible passage she gives the introductory thought what word would you pick up where it says the Sun Moon and stars what are they the Sun Moon and stars that's the Bible verse but wearing the great controversy oh you're just going to stick with signs sorry token so you want to make them tokens so before they happened was there a prediction or a prophecy that they would happen that was readable in the same way was there a readable passage of inspiration that said there's going to be a 10 year Afghan war or you're going to have 1979 no your answer's no was there a Bible passage that says there's going to be 1989 yes Daniel 11 verse 40 Daniel chapter 5 all of that stuff is you can work it out long before 1989 comes but you can't find 1979 so the way you use in 19th 1979 as a token is not the way that she's using it here because she's using these tokens that were prophesied before so you what you the 10-year rockin war is it is a token but it's not a very effective token in this in the way we use it but we should have seen that that war even though we didn't know it was a 10-year war we should have known that that war was a token of the time of the end coming as the church who will not have known that okay so if you know if you know it should be a token then you should have a prophecy about that yeah but then you'd pick up any in every war so that wouldn't work with it so if we're going to make that as a token wait a token off at a basic level it's a token of the time at the end it may be the way Ellen White would use it it wouldn't be I don't think but if we say it's a time with the end then that means you must have a prophecy about it otherwise it doesn't serve its purpose and if it doesn't serve its purpose no one can be held accountable for it and you're inferring that people are going to be held accountable for it at least the movement has haven't they so that must mean there must be a prophecy about it and if you're saying well you don't know that means like we don't know how can we blame the other folks the leaders how can we blame them if we don't even know because that's our accusation isn't it they were required to know what's the license for having a token before the time of the end a story another story you know that's our history okay sorry that's your meaning 1989 a double you're talking about 1989 I'm saying what's the evidence that we should have seen tokens so one of the muses of millerite history they had tokens we should have tokens another one the flood so what's the token for the flood what when does Methuselah die no they won't correct you because it's correct so the year he dies which is the year of the flood that's at the end yeah bricks it's it's long before the time of the end story long after the time at the end I'm asking about one that would be here we'd have to have a token before the story starts in fact in the story of Noah I don't know if anybody does there may be that they could tell us where we even marked the time at the end the flood Noah's Flood right because we nobody marked 120 years is 911 doesn't huesemann tie at the end I thought we just said so I'm saying if I built the boat the boat is like this where you begin and now 120 will begin here this to be 911 if you're going to do that so I don't know what the time at the end is maybe the thoughts of men's hearts were evil continually perhaps but I don't it is a sign before that that's what I'm asking them signed before that another story it's a really easy one line of Christ so what's the token there the sign if we're going to make the time of the ends two men which we've which attention nowadays would mark because they're born in the same year would mark both of them as the time at the end the birth of John the birth of Christ someone said the star yeah the story's the one that is the easy one to see in in the story of Christ's birth it's a token that he's going to be born is would we be foods that fair one or not that's after his birth I said we can't use that one prophesied before they pregnant yeah okay so we're struggling with your brother Daniel that we can't find any story that really showed you clearly that there's going to be a token beforehand except the Miller right one the conceptually I think that's what yeah brother Graham say the conception the fact that things happen in the six-month prophecy not only photos the manor an object of Christ's coming but presents tokens by which men are to know when it is near and these tokens connected to the harrell's connected to the clustering of the glories or are they unrelated of Bob I think they're connected because their truths what things are gonna happen and they're told ahead of time so I think they're connected I've got I've got another reference here to tie some of this together I'd rather not use it yet so we can stretch ourselves a little bit further brother Richard we're Nomi connected I mean are they the same thing because I want to know am I allowed to am I allowed to say Harold equals glories equals tokens that's what that's what I mean that they connected are they the same thing there they synonyms his hey Luther so he's loose of The Herald is lucid the token you just said the herald is the glories are token you said I'll work with that and you've just drawn the diagram that you're saying Luther would be a herald but he's not a token so you disagree with that which is what which is what was he prophesying so Luther would be up here Luther is not predicting a token is he what they're saying is Christ is going to come that's what all of those passages that she talks about he's doing for us that's the whole point it's how what we want to do is we want to follow what other white is trying to teach us because we shouldn't be inserting our own thoughts and ideas into the passage because we think we know what she's trying to teach us we should let her teachers and she hasn't done that all she's all t's done he's given us a title The Herald she talks about the clustering of events that surround this and I wanted to know what does it mean when you when you have not events glories the casting of doors what does that mean someone attempted to make it look like this which were not too sure about and now we're four pages into the chapter and now she says prophecy not only for tells the manor an object of Christ's coming if we put a stop there she's just given a summary of everything that she's just said because every prophecy that she's just quoted he's dealing with one subject isn't it it's not talking about the tokens are always talking about one subject says the prophecies deal with that but they also deal with something else they also deal with the tokens and the example of Luther Luther's doing this top one he's not doing this bottom one in the example that she gives but now she says it doesn't only deal with the event also deals with the tokens or the signs that precede devein and none of the examples that she gave did that except now when she quotes Luke 21:25 now she introduces the subject of what the tokens would be does that make sense we agree with that so I think people still didn't understand what sister test was saying but if the clustering or these glories is the tokens if it is that will put the herald to one side then this picture work would be wrong wouldn't it because this picture work is only dealing with this it doesn't it doesn't tackle the tokens so if we were to go to this story here and we said this was the destruction of Jerusalem as an example what would be a token of that don't don't have to give me a Bible verse just give me it's good we know the story well enough what be a token the Jerusalem is about to be destroyed they're going to get there grappling hooks and going to bring those walls down there must be a token of that I don't say there must be but I'm saying is there the siege okay that's what you would say so the siege would be a token so the question is for it to be a prophetic token I mean if someone's going to be seeded you know things are going to go bad perhaps perhaps they may not go bad for it to being effective token you'd have to have some kind of prophecy I think if you don't then what you're going to rely upon is that you have this event that's happening and it's a harbinger perhaps of what's about to happen but maybe you're not a hundred percent sure so we've got the siege what other ones do we have whether they whether that we know a prophecy about them or not lightning a flag Daniel chapter 1 verse 1 all the roll boys have gone was so we'll go with those two we'll go with I put Kim here and I'll put s for siege so these two for sure they're pointing to this event we agree with that just the common sense would teach you that now if they were tokens that this is going to happen what doing what what do we need to have that they become effective tokens you have to have prophecies that target these because otherwise I'm going to say they just took Daniel and people say things happen you know it looks bad but we serve a God that would not allow the church to be destroyed with the only Church the Babylonians are his enemies this would never happen can't happen so it's just an anomaly and everything's going to be ok maybe we'll the go and get them back but if it was a prophecy then we can say no this is the this is a fulfillment of prophecy and because it's been fulfilled now we know that this is going to happen and especially when you get a clustering of those things so if we've been picking up a cusping of the glories or a clustering of the tokens then you know that the event is going to happen from the James so the death of Hananiah was that predicted so it gets predicted so that would be a token so where would it be here in between them so I put Hananiah how the NOI is a bit of a funny one Hoopa Dixie's death so it's a current profit and current profits and not profits are they really because nobody accepts them as profits that's why they're even having the argument because Hananiah is not saying you know what I don't agree with Moses because no one's going to disagree with the profits that came before because they're established truth they agree they disagree with Jeremih cuz then you're not even a prophet he's just kind of someone who stands up and does his own thing but if we took him as a prophet then he's going to predict it but people aren't gonna believe how the noise death I mean I could just put it down to wizardry or something but it is valid yes Joachim where would we go for that one it's going to give someone else the chance first because I need you new Leviticus 26 so we've got there because 26 you could get to that and some will stand up and say so those people those boys have just been taken that was a fulfillment of Leviticus 26 and if Leviticus 26 is fulfilled partially the rest of its going to happen the siege bread Thada well you gotta kiss 26 and Deuteronomy 21 okay - I will just do these EQ one okay so is equal four Ezekiel's going to get a tablet and he's going to draw a picture work of what's about to happen based upon a prediction that goes all the way back to the separation of Israel and we've got Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 so I think this is wisest the test was saying the original picture work was not in agreement with this or the passage that we read if I'm if I understood her correctly so we'll go back and summarize but before we do that just wanna leave us if people got questions or they've got comments before I go back and summarize why we're I think we've got to not again I'm not sure if we're all in the hundred percent agreement with what I'm saying so I'm gonna give you an opportunity to comment sister Bromley so here's this prophecy here prophecy is that Christ is going to come so once you've established that your question is once your prophesied in this event does that event itself have to have a token connected to it so that was part one and that was under part one part del spot that was one of the questions the other one was do all tokens have to have a prophecy attached to them so you say no why not okay so there's gonna be a token next week and no I'm just saying it happened next week it's going to happen next week I'm not obvious it's not being stated so when it say today something happened today how do we know that that would be a token I didn't catch that sorry so the problem is sometimes we're not clued up on inspiration well enough to anticipate the token and because we not say with with inspiration to the degree that we should be sometimes those tokens sneak up on us so this token could come could have come and gone and we look back and we say that was the token there and we missed it and so the question is how do you notice a token then you have to go back and say good snap now we've found the evidence so it's it's our weakness our frailty and they're gonna make any excuses for that that we should know the prophecies before the tokens so that they can be effective tokens because otherwise they become pretty impudent weak tokens because nobody even sees what's happening and you gave an example of 911 and that's probably the most classic example in our movement that we didn't suggest didn't see it coming and after the week's what I said of course it so we could we should have seen it coming the question is post 9/11 are the tokens that we need to that are there should we be seen them before they come if we are then we of necessity need to know the prophecies are attached to them so I'm suggesting that the second part of your question sister Bronwyn is all tokens must have a prophecy attached to them otherwise they're not really effective tokens it's like well you know that ship that sunk today or that disaster that happened it may or it may just be time and chance who knows why it was there who knows what relevance it has to end time prophecy if it's not attached something then it doesn't be then it doesn't really serve a purpose as a token now we may find out afterwards oh yeah that was a token we didn't realize it but to have it that it would be a token than it was never mentioned I'm not sure if that would that would fit the criteria so if then if they're not specific they are they in the general sense what do people think they've recreated their tokens you agree I think my sister saying there should be wars and rumors of wars and the white predicts you know great natural disasters the Bible speaks about that so there are prophecies that connect them or predict them but they're pretty vague so when you say wars and rumors of wars do you think they're vague or they're specific Robert Daniel what are the difference of the prophecy that is okay mr. Cathy what's the difference between prophecies that talk about the second coming of prophecies that talk about tokens what's the difference is that simply enough no okay so is a 19-7 second Advent can you well I know you could do anything okay so if you're gonna make the second Advent pannier they know how did your question what's the framework of your questions it sounds to me like you're answering your own question or I don't understand your question so what's the purpose of the token no not the prophecies coming the this one's gonna be fulfilled the is going to be fulfilled that's the purpose of the tokens that's the hope it's okay for me they are what what's the purpose of them you but what's the purpose besides that because you know Jesus is going to come anyway without the tokens you know that we already know he's coming why do you need these sorry yeah but why so by definition to wake us up you said some other words preparation so by definition these tokens must occur when in what dispensation yes they have to be in probationary time otherwise they serve no purpose so yeah there's not much difference between them but there's a big difference between them because they're all about prophecies that are all going to be fulfilled but these ones are happening in probationary time to give you an opportunity because we're lazy or you know what we were brought up incorrectly whoever we're gonna blame you have to blame someone but you now give an opportunity to get yourself ready for that event let's go to Matthew 24 verse 6 so this is just a short digression that's your 24 verse six if you're taking notes you can do you can put mark thirteen seven mark thirteen seven and Luke 21:9 so it's Matthew Mark and Luke 24 six thirteen seven 21 9 we'll just read from Matthew this is about the wars and you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars see that ye be not troubled for all these things must come to pass but the end is not yet so that's what the the Bible verse you were quoted my sister yes so it talks about the walls he says don't be worried these things must come to pass but the end is not yet so could we see that can we say that these are tokens or harbingers yeah so when it says the end is not yet what does that mean that part of the that part of the verse the end is not yet the time at the end so if I were to do so if I were to do a line 1798 you mean so 1798 and here's wars and it says 1798 is not yet it's not yet 1798 in the wars that's what yeah I'm not saying you already know but I just want us to to think about how we're going to even approach this verse because it talks about wars you agree that they're harbingers we'll take the word harbingers so that we get familiar with that one these were these wars are predicting that the end is coming he says don't worry you're going to see the wars but it's okay because these wars are going to warn you that the end is coming but the end isn't here yet so he sees those wars here know that the end is coming but it's not here yet and you see that this end would be the time at the end yeah I'm not I'm not trying to corner you I just want to know I just want you to explain how you read the verse yes okay and I'm picking up the I thought you probably hadn't because I'm asking you specific questions and I know yes you having to think on your feet it doesn't matter if we're wrong because to me it's more about the exercise of if you open a verse and you haven't come across it before what would we do how would we approach the verse so it's not about getting the right answer it's just about the approach that we have what we'll get to the right answer because we could do it a simple wave we just go to the spirit of prophecy desire of Ages chapter 69 and she'll tell you what all of this means if you want to take you need to make a reference of that desire of Ages chapter 69 I can't remember what page it is the whole chapter is basically dealing with this the whole chapter in desire beige is dealing with Matthew 24 mark 13 look to it and she'll explain actually what only this means so if we go to the top of the chapter verse 1 we know Matthew 23 is the woes to the Pharisees we're familiar with that I think and just beforehand in Matthew 21 is the second temple cleansing so you've got the second temple cleansing he's done that describing the Pharisees are going to come and push back and then he's going to pronounce a whoa upon them and then verse 38 23:38 says behold your house is left unto you desolate what house is that the temple so if you kept your finger there and you went to John chapter 2 I think verse 17 I think it's 17 you went to John 2:17 not 17 works 16 and he said unto them that sold doves take these things hence make not my father's house a house of merchandise same house so this is the temple and in verse 16 he calls it his father's house he takes ownership of that and in Matthew 23 38 he now identifies the house as whose theirs so it's it's changed ownership so there's some the stomach changed about the relationship of that temple with God the Father and by extension God the Son so they owed they had ownership in John 2 and after the second temple cleansing because there's been no change now they take possession of it then you come to chapter 24 Jesus went out and you parties from the temple and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple why would they do that why would the disciples say let's come out and they say just turn around and look at that building and look how great it is why would they show Jesus how great that temple is but why they showing how why they showing him how great it is right they were proud but what's just happened in verse 38 so Jesus is just said in verse 38 that building is now destroyed it's desolate I have nothing to do with it this is not God's house they come out of the building and they look back and they say we think you're wrong Jesus that house looks great it's the greatest building perhaps in the world God is not about to leave that anytime soon we think you need to reconsider not only your approach to the gospel and how you interact with people but what you're actually saying you're predicting things that are not real so now Christ responds in verse two jesus said unto them see he not all these things the building verily I say unto you there shall not be left there one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down so now he says you think this building is so great it's about to be destroyed verse three did he set up on the Mount of Olives the disciples came to him privately saying tell us when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of the coming and of the end of the world so what a day just mixed up how many events how many events are labeled in mark in verse three sister bromley says three three beds can we all see three events tell us when these things shall be what are these things the destruction of the temple the sign of die coming and the end of the world so they've got these three events and in their mind they're all going to happen when all at the same time why did they believe that because the Old Testament prophecies have already foretold what that that building is going to last right to the very end into eternity in fact it's going to be there till the very end so the temple can't be destroyed and then you can have this huge gap and then there's going to be the second advent they just it can't happen that way because they understand prophecy they think so they're going to put them all together verse four and jesus answered and said that then take heed that no man deceive you for many shall come in my name saying I am the Christ and shall deceive many and you shall hear of wars Ramzan we read verse six verse seven nation shall rise against nation and Kingdom against Kingdom and there shall be famines and pestilences earthquakes in diverse places all these are the beginning of Sorrows so they're not the end of just the beginning then they're going to deliver you then they shall deliver you up to be afflicted they're going to try and kill you they're going to be offended by you there's going to be false prophets verse 13 but he that shall endure until the end the same shall be saved the gospel is going to be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end be and come so in verse 6 but the end is not yet and verse 14 the end shall come a Davis they the same endings how would you read that if you to prove text it would you say that they're the same not sure I say yes I think you would I think any reasonable reading of that would say yes so the gospel is going to be preached for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come so if we were to read that with the NBD 1798 so we can see now it's just a simple reading the in verse 6 that end is not going to be speaking about the time at the end and if you can see if you agree with that verse 15 when ye therefore should see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the Holy Place then let him which be in Judea flee into the mountains let him which is on the housetop come down woe unto them that are with child pray that your flight isn't in the winter on the Sabbath because there's going to be great tribulation as such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor ever shall be so verse say 15 to 20 what event is that what's verse 15 to 20 anybody this is the destruction of Jerusalem verse 14 precedes verse 15 it's the introduction of verse 15 and the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto thee unto all nations and then shall the end come what would their end be the end of mother James was 15 to 20 what's 15 to 20 so the end is it's the end of Jerusalem so verse 14 is bringing you to the destruction of Jerusalem that's what the end is isn't that what one of their question was tell us when all these things are going to happen and et cetera et cetera and Jesus just going to do it's going to get this prophecy and he's gonna mix it all up so that unless you really know what you're reading you just think that they're all one event but they're not he's going to deal with each one of their concerns or questions separately but he's going to do it in such a way that unless you're you understand the prophecies and the tokens you'll get Mulund up it's easy to get muddled up in this passage so I'm suggesting verse 14 bring you to what date brother Theodore was 15 to 20 so we would be the abomination of desolation so 1798 or you want to do - - 70 80 it'd be 70 AD wouldn't it so I'm saying it's not 1798 it's 70 I've not put 66 in there because I'm just making the point that I understand verse 15 is 66 but it's cloaking about the destruction the end this is 70 if you kept your fingers here and went to Colossians 1:23 as you read in Colossians 1:23 you look at 123 and I'm gonna read 24 14 okay so you're gonna you're gonna just look at one Colossians 1:23 and I'm gonna read Matthew 24:14 I'll be there and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come so he's Colossians 1:23 a parallel verse to Matthew 24:14 we agree with that yeah they're the same history we know what Colossians 1:23 history is don't we because this is poor Paul's done that work and Paul is gonna do that work from the very earliest words say 34 we know he doesn't do this in 34 he begins around 46 before he really begins to do his work his first missionaries Tory's around 46 but we'll pick up 34 because that's when he gets converted so in this history we've got Colossians 1:23 to agree with that the Gospels going to be taken to all the world you mean you got you back to Matthew 24 verse 15 it says when you when therefore you should see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel prophet stand in the Holy Place whoso everything let him understand my understanding is that's Daniel 9:26 and 27 this is the destruction of Jerusalem not the presentation of the gospel but verse 14 is before that event happens the gospel is going to be taken to the world so this is the end and this is Matthew 24:14 and the reason why it's important to see that is because if you go back to verse 6 it says there's going to be wars and rumors of war before the end and that end is the same ending verse 14 so these wars here are which wars from a t-34 280 70 what wars are going on who's fighting against each other brother Larry the reason why I thought I might ask you is because you're doing a devotion on on the Roman emperors and in this history there's Wars not only nations against nations but there's civil war going on in the Roman Empire to decide who's gonna rule so these wars in their historical original application are not some random Wars they're very specific and what we would want to do if we were going to approach this is see what wars are happening in this history and then what would we do would make an application to them so the reason why I mention that is because Adventists talk about wars and rumors of wars and you know we could go back to First World War Second World War the Korean War you know I don't know how many wars they've been in the last century this wars everywhere and we're just saying these are just generic tokens that the second advent is coming because we see lots of wars and I'm saying that's not how we should be approaching this problem the subject of wars and rumors of wars and very specific wars they're not just any random Wars our problem is that we don't know our history well enough and we don't know how to make application well enough and if we did what we would be able to do is to say well the walls that Christ is talking about are not the walls here at the end of the world she's not talking about the first and second world war Korean War you know the war the Cold War's not talking about anything like that talking about these specific wars and what we need to do is then make application correctly and if we could do that well if I could do it and what saying that I can I could say that you know that war between the United States and Russia that war can be demonstrated here as an example I'm not saying it can and that's why I know that that war has prophetic significance now I'm not suggesting that there are Wars that don't have why I'm saying is we don't know our history and how to make application well enough to be able to identify those wars and what they mean because if we just say there's a lot there's a lot of wars if you go to youtube you can see videos where people do this they track the last century and they say let's track earthquakes or the magnitude of the earthquakes and they'll say you know over the last hundred years we've got a lot of earthquakes so that means Jesus must be coming because it's getting more and more earthquakes and I'm not saying that that's just rubbish but you know that's like kindergarten and it may not even be true because you have lots of arguments that say that that actually is not true all we're doing now is our measurement equipment is so sensitive we're just picking them all up and they've been there all the time and maybe we're not having more Wars than we used to have maybe we have less it's just it's in our face because of news 24/7 news so only that was the digression about tokens that when we just think about wars and rumors of wars I think far from being random they're very specific but our problem is we just don't know how to identify exactly what they are in the relevance of them where every time nobody told me I'm sorry let's close we free Heavenly Father we thank you for your goodness and mercy we want to ask and pray for a blessing lord help us to understand the work of the first angel as we work our way through the book that you have given us to prepare us for the soon coming Sunday law we want to ask that you continue to guide and direct us help us father to not just recognize our weakness but also to acknowledge your strength not only to see that but we in many ways have failed you but to see how unfailing you are in your love and your caring your protection towards us may we take hold of your strength we know Lord that we're still in the time of tokens where there is still opportunity for us to prepare ourselves please be with us and please bless us we pray in Jesus's name I mean