(04-05-18) - Biblical Methodology (Trimester End) - (7 onViVTnVk)




Publish Date: 4/6/2018
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Language: English
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YouTube Title: (04-05-18) - Biblical Methodology (Trimester End)-7_onViVTnVk
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good morning everybody we just returned yesterday early morning or from Guadeloupe we had a very good blessed prophecy school down there that's good to see them it was really pretty well attended and they had good schedule if I've seen right I had 18 presentations I think I never done so many in a row one camp meeting and sister Tamina same thing so we could cover quite a lot of material and they did presentations like in the morning for people that message and for the night it was message there was a it was a line of presentations for new people and kind of like 60 people came in the nights was very nice alright so if this one found a classier in in order to finish or to add a couple of more thoughts to my series of presentations here at the school and I won't like to resume and to give some perspective on on what I've been saying here so we've been selling methodology and my initial thought was dead every formative movement has a methodology that is different from what the reformatory movement finds and at its time there needs to be changed and needs to be a Reformation also in the methodology because basically the generation that the Lord is starting to reform finds itself in circumstances that are that are not good and what happens in church is really a methodology that is influenced as we have seen by tradition and by philosophy and I think we could show this in several lines and we did not go into detail in our history because I think these are things that we have seen pretty much in detail and in several studies that we did throughout the years like a dissolution Jerusalem where we show a little bit in detail how how the new theology came into our movement now our movement our church alright so from that point on what I I try to just make couple of statements and and come to a few conclusions and I found that some people or several people approached me with the question so what are we doing now what is our approach what are we what what is what are our rules what is our methodology and it was a little bit surprised but because I thought we know what we are doing so but perhaps the lack of having a name or title for it it it seems like gave some of us and like little identity crisis like when I said we are not proofed XS or we don't use the proof text method it was just to clarify that what we think is proof tech method is not what the rest of the world thinks God has already defined what the proof text method is we still do the same thing you know we still use proof texts it's just not called proof text method and if we want to call it proof text method ends like a fight against windmills you can do this fight you could say okay so what you think is not not what it should be but I think this is not and this is would be an unnecessary fight to go against something because when the world defines proof tech method it's not that they are fighting against us they don't they don't like to twist something they don't want to twist your really proof text method they have the reason to call proof text method what they do find is proof document because there are reasons to it yeah it's not something that's against this message is an old thing so but when when we cannot say any longer we approved Texas we we are proof texting so think some people send Sophie like so what are we then so there's nothing we can hold on to like what so what it was this is such a good term proof texting sounds good and and it makes sense in the way we think or we believe what it is but so anyway I cannot I'm not coming up with a new term a new name you know I don't and as I said I don't think if this is necessary I don't think if we need to find a term I don't I don't think that Malaya and why did they had a term for that methodology but understanding what methodology they used and how their methodology means a lot Amelia writes is to be set within a system or I think this helps us a lot because we have Miller's roots but as you say as you can see from the name it's it's just a list of rules let's just go into our or not CF just read a few things and I think from there from the on we can build upon and and hopefully have some good ideas together so there are some nods here and I think you can you hand over some notes if each of you once I have one if you want to share one it's okay as well there are some extra ones so this is just an addition to the PDF that I already released and I just called our approach so William Miller says roots of interpretation in studying the Bible I have found the following rules to be of great service to myself and now give them to the public by special request every rule should be well studied in connection was to scripture references and if the Bible student would be at all benefited by them all right we know this expression very well so he says these are rules of interpretation and you may remember that when I was talking about historical grammatical method I read to you we read together like 15 prison positions because the positions are not rules if you want to say what you are doing in studying the Bible you have to say many things like you do not you do not only have rules yes you have pressure positions you have like a big big set of of principles of settings of basic principles that you that you have in your mind when you study the Bible it's not only a couple of rules and I think this is what I'm trying to what I'm trying to say here so when we study Babur we use all this but the rules are just a part of it okay kind of this is what I'm trying to say because the rest of what we use if we study the Bible like to press a position that the Bible is God's Word we don't it's not a rule yeah this is a preposition we use it but we don't say it all the time because it's not necessary to say it it's just it's just basic and we at all it's common understanding and since we are baptized we already accept it as this principle all right but if we want to say what method are we using then kind of we need to how I see it we need to like address all of this and we say okay we also say the Bible is God's Word etc etcetera there are many things that we need to clarify just to make a complete organized set of statements I don't know so so he says it's rude so it's just just rules and then an white says those who are engaged in proclaiming to third angels message are searching just searching the scriptures upon the same plan that father Mel adopted so once again so what Miller produced here is a set of rules to search scriptures and this search of scriptures has other present positions or the principles that are not in this in these rules they are just meant for for like practicing now Bible study you go into the book and what you do now you have a set of rules so you can you can understand it then some additional background information this is from an article by Jeff crow combo that he released 2003 it's one of those I think typical modern psychological approaches on studying something out where they give you like a critical perspective on what Miller did for example in this case and I don't like very much as conclusion so I think they are not very interesting but I like some information that he gives ok and give some good good texts references etc so he says the list of Miller's 14 roots may be divided into three sections the first five roots deal with general principles of interpretation applicable to the entire Bible while the next eight deals specifically was the interpretation of Bible prophecy the last final rule 14 number 14 outlines the importance of having faith of approaching the bad words to correct believing mindset the most important rule of all is that you must have faith okay so just a little structure tumulus rules and then he gives this is also from his article he gives us a few findings so that he said that milla he this man he gave the contemporary he gives the statement upon Miller he says milah never had a commentary in his house and did not remember reading any work upon the prophecies except Newton and father about 30 years ago so there are two names here and what this man points out in his article is Miller was not like he was not born into a vacuum there was nothing and he just invented out of nothing some roots and I think this is something that we have seen already that of course Milla is like in continuation of the Protestant heritage and he's he's just refining or defining some things adding some things to it so there's Newton and Farber and then he goes a little bit into who's Newton who's Baba there were Protestants they were history cysts so he claims it he has been influenced by them and and why not this is by lots Providence this is not a problem at all second statement Miller latest cite all commentaries and used to marginal references and his concordance as soon as his only helps this is from yes Avesta bliss also so there was the one Newton it was Harbor and there were the margin there references in the Bible that Miller used and also you can find in an evidence on Scripture history of the second coming of Christ about the year 181 1843 by Miller in this book he quotes from the man which is called John Jill so only thing I'm saying here what this man is saying is that Miller had some had some some fountains some information and it's interesting to see because you're he used season is not that he just invented everything from scratch and and then interesting that Newton's have until they were historicists I think what this means is that they see the Bible they see the Bible prophecy you can see it in history and it fulfills in historian in the line in history so this is this is their approach you know the events the professor prophetic information Babel gives us will have its fulfillment in our history and these are events that going to happen in a certain sequence and then let's read this the statement on this page last one all three of these writers rely heavily on the work of Joseph's meet a British pioneer of historicism whose works although written in the 17th century remained in print in the nineteenth meets methodology included three important elements that were utilized by Newton father and Jill in and through their works by William Miller himself first the use of the Year Day principle to interpret prophecy second the consistent and comprehensive relation of historical events to Biblical prophecy third to synchronization of different prophecies into a coherent system yeah interesting and good to know but I don't want to go much further than that because I don't want to go like like in a typical historical critical now approach you could go in there and you can like see into comes conclusions say okay this is the background and therefore Miller came to this conclusion so it's what you seek for they seek for like human influences I don't mind if he has read many other authors and whatever but but what we believe what we understand that the Lord provided this information it's by Providence and he had influence already these authors and these men so it's just a line of of guidance but allotted he should understand his text and by them he understood some things so the Lord used throughout centuries different men to convene truth I think this is what we can see here so then and he also is not interesting finding 1887 Waggoner it's the first to produce a list of Adventist hermeneutical principles the first record to that we have that after Miller's rules that the Adventist movement Adventist Church provides something like what this what we do okay this is our approach this is our principle to study Bible and it's kind of basic but let's let's read it I think it's interesting and it was the first article first magazine in the year of 1887 January 6th he says the size of the times was established to present truth in the simples and clearest manner possible we wish to lay down for our readers a few of the principles which we shall in verily follow in our interpretation and which is followed in a prayerful and candid spirit cannot fail to lead a person to a proper knows the understanding of the sacred word and then this automates a resume the principle that we are going to list it in his two articles included scripture must interpret scripture first second there is no book of the Bible upon which light is not shed by every other book third symbols have always the same meaning provided the same subject is unless consideration in an early Advent review and Sabbath Herald article he expressed his support of Miller's method we leave was such the good old rule of scripture and protection as follows all scripture should be literary interpret interpret read unless there be good reason why it should be topically or figuratively understood and then from a corner directly from his article last week we gave him few principles of interpretation and promised to add a few more this week as we as what we now wish to give is very intimately related with what has already been given we will first recall those points we noted first that the Bible is absolute truth and that anything that disagrees with it in the slightest particularly I must be false second that the Bible through though composed of many books is one book with one author that there is perfect harmony in all its parts third that the Bible contains all truth because that by it and men maybe the roughly first unto all good works and that therefore it must be its own interpreter forth that one part of the Bible cannot be fully understood if taking out of its connection or without reference to the Bible as a whole there is no book in the Bible upon which light is not thrown but every other book in the Bible a few principle of interpretation in sense of the tines by a Waggoner okay there was one more sorry this is just the true of the whole mind cetera lastly we showed that a term used in one place in the Bible must have two same meaning in every other place where it occurs especially if the same subject is under consideration interesting important rules and once again I think like it is very difficult to make something like this like Capri complete list or approach or system of what what are we doing what what do we believe when we opened him when we approached the Bible to study it and here I think he gives on it is why he's only like he's saying like I give you a few a couple of principles I knowing well that they're more but it would be too big a work to include all of them and I don't know if we have to do this you know I think what Miller has done he just gave a list of the most important thing for this reformatory movement for his time for the present generation present truth principles that were important and not neglecting to there were others that are important as well but the others just remained unchanged and perhaps we if we want to write something down because we have said something like that it would be good to have something written to form a something I don't know if we need to do like you everything the complete work of what what what is our approach or if we just come up with the things that are important for this generation or what I important for this movement what I present choose principal so to speak I'm not really sure about that and what is author here disco combo is showing that adventism until the very day of our time is using Miller's principles at least some of them you know it is it is that you can show that el salón formula up to today there are modern claims of what we believe in even is there there's some other things mingled into it you're still Miller's rules and his approach is important and what he finds important is that Miller his approach was we have to understand it to go through our mind so our logic through logic is this is or this part of it it's not something mystical or something based on feelings you know it's something that we can understand we have to be reasonable in coming to conclusions okay so then I want to drag some conclusion from this at the end of the page you you see that I have two questions what position do these rules Miller's roots occupied a more complete description of our method and by limitation so kind of what I have you on the board where do his rules fit in yes for me kind of they just hanging out there in the space and where and I don't really know what are they other than rules that I have with me second are there further rules that we ought to use and based upon the next page 34 based upon this this structure that we shared and we studied the quadriga oh it is called also I think I find it quite quite a good foundation to to see what we can do or what we need to do there's a little reputation and as a spiritual possession in terms of interpreting the Bible we recognize these two things and there's not not not any other right so there are only two things but both are important we we understand literal comes first the spiritual comes second we make a stronger emphasis on the on the on the second generally but at the second then has three other points there's a typological and this is what what what they call allegorical right like I'm trying to interpret this now for our time I would say rather than allegorical I would say typological this is also termed a they were using then there's some moral interpretation and there's a prophetic allure typological a prophetic alar quite they come very close I think oftentimes they are mingled but not not completely the same and there's also more which we mostly neglect or we don't we don't approach it very often but I think it's clear to us that it also exists so let us go a little bit closer heaven a little closer look to do this four approaches of Bible study the little importation and a four project Bible interpretation and this is here from first Corinthians 15 Joe so what I'm trying to do now is like to give some proof why we uphold or I think we uphold these four approaches first this is first Corinthians 15 46 how about that was was not first that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural and afterward that which is spiritual so I think this gives us a clear information that there's a literal approach there's little information in the Bible and it's the first thing that we have to see the text just at is Mandan first line literally and then we have Miller's rule here rule number 11 how to know when a word is used figuratively if it makes good sense as it stands and does not violence to the simple laws of nature then it must be understood literally if not figuratively so in my a my my am content to see where to Miller's rules enter as in a system I could see what this rule for example is you you can fit it in here yeah it is a statement upon literal deputation so with this rule he makes a statement on that we have to do little interpretation and then Bates he also says something on that I have been this particular in quoting the scriptures in answer to the questions proposed to endeavor if possible to dispel some of this thick darkness and mist of Shaker ISM Quakerism swedenborgianism and all their spiritual isms that now seem to be settling down all over the moral world in shutting out even the very light from the horizon to my mind the spiritualizing system when God's Word admits of a literal interpretation and according to rule the literal first is to use a sailor phrase like a ship groping away into a Boston Bay in the night in a thick snow with the moon at full good god help us to steer clear of the spiritual interpretation of thy word where it is made so clear that the second coming and kingdom of Christ will be as literal and real Ness the events that transpired at the first Advent now recall it in history so we understand from from from their content from their situation why this rule was so important to them today perhaps doesn't seem to be a problem to us any longer it we take it for granted yes of course second coming of crisis with literal coming and it's not a rule that we focus so much on because there's no fight against death there's no fight involved in us all there is button it's not not such important as as in his time but it's good to see Bates is like using Miller's rule they day they have it like it's an important thing in and this is why it's on our list why it enters out this system of approaches yes it is an approach that we do and we have to do its first approach literal approach doesn't make sense what I'm what I'm what I'm saying it yeah what I understand is when you try to understand Bible text you'd first try to see literally but you may just immediately say okay I cannot apply literal interpretation to this yeah yeah I tried to first but not necessarily everything everything is literal only no it's not yeah because some there there are some some symbols use clearly and then we have to understand okay I cannot and then I have to bend it and try to little meaning to get out a literal meaning out of the symbol yes it's a symbol yes yeah I think this is the way exactly it's not denying that at all I think this is what we have to do but it doesn't mean that it's only literal it's because it has a literal first yeah you tried to establish first literature and from that you to the next step okay and I also think not everything is literal or not everything you can approach the tree you may you may just have to skip the little potential okay there's no literal interpretation for this specific text because it's not meant to be a literal application a second the spiritual application okay we're at first Corinthians it says that there is a spiritual but as there's a literal but there's also spiritual all right and next page 35 once again Milla is also backing up this approach rule 6 God has revealed things to come by visions figures in parables and in this way the same things are often time revered again and again by different visions or in different figures in parables if you wish to understand him you must combine them all in one I think that this rule fits in here to solve this this issue to find if something is spiritual you need this rule you need to apply it rule 11 how to know when a word is used figuratively if good makes good sense as it stands and does non-violence there's no violence to December laws of nature then must be honest literally if not figuratively right so he he gives us some direction to go also to take this way then the second way did the second approach the spiritual approach just in general and then we have this we have this normal precise description what spiritual approaches are there there's a typological is the moral and that's the prophetic or as as it was also said there's the there's anagogical in the last one just a moral and then that's the allegoric it's the same same thing the typological or the figurative there you have this rules from Milla again that define how you can figure out how you can understand how we can make the Taba logical or the figurative approach we'll eight figures always have a figurative meaning so so you see what what I'm seeing here or what I'm trying to say yeah Milla gives us gives us rules and these rules he gives him as Justin a list but in his system you can see that there Dave they are they fit into his system yeah he tries to I don't know unconsciously or hehe does this you know he he defends his system actually I think we don't need to read them all we should know them apparently just go go through them rule 8 triggers of all the figurative meaning and I used much in prophecy rule 9 parables are used as comparisons to illustrate subjects and must be explained in the same way as figures by this subject and Bible ten figures sometimes have two or more different in significations as day it's a trap twelve to learn that the true meaning of figures trace your figurative word through your Bible etc so he gives us these rules to understand to take this approach in a correct manner second approach of a spiritual potations to moral just took this one text from and wide review in Herald 18 6 1874 February 24th the first great moral lesson given Adam was dead of served denial the reigns of self-government were placed in his hands I think I think this is that you can write a lot about it but I think this is so overwhelmingly clear that the Bible has a moral lesson so you need to a moral approach to read it and the problem one of the problems I think we face today it's in our churches we oftentimes find only this approach only only moral application of everything not only morally and and in sometimes it means to today to the preachers there is only moron there's no other okay when I heard some years ago where an amazing negatively amazing interpretation on the on the on the parable of the of divergence convergence he made this moral approach we can get nothing out of this I then immoral and lessen okay there's no prophetic lesson into this this is this is our problem in our time but nevertheless it's important it's there I don't have a problems and I think the system helps because then you can see okay this is this is immoral answer and then you have a prophetic answer and they don't have to harmonize because it's two different things it's as prophetic this is moral if you want to harmonize it has to be both moral or both prophetic if they're you have a problem and you have two prophetic answers then then it's getting complicated or bad you know but it's prophetic so sometimes we say you make we make an application that is internal and then you make an explication can be contrary or different in its external but we understand there's different categories or it can be different yeah I think what like when you introduce something when you baptize some someone you have to teach them that the Bible is God's Word you have to have him to agree on this you know the word hasn't known it then doesn't necessarily agree on it something totally basic and something like this could happen class he in this case as well but an oil another example that I find interesting to illustrate this point is when we when we find parallels between wicked Kings such as Manasseh the oil King Zedekiah and we understand them - the illustrations of time of the end first angel second third angel it would be almost opposite work but nevertheless we find in as a symbol it prophetically it's adequate to do it morally it wouldn't be okay there you go thank you I see the importance for a system because I in the secular world we have rules of accounting rules of bookkeeping rules of editing and you know just different careers positions have their own rules that they work within to accomplish what it is that they want also as been an sunday-keeping world for a long time there were for me I learned there were really only two rules and one was the moral and the other was experiential or mystical and so that was the only two really ways I did see the historical part - but I didn't it was old and it was back then and had no relevance for me and my present day except maybe so I can see the importance of and I agree with Ron went to that bringing these rules out to new people would be very helpful because we come in carrying the baggage of the previous like you said the darkness of the pre method of interpreting the Bible and that has to be unlearned and and I think one of problem for not the problem at the situation in circumstances where did we we understand that we need to unlearn with motto unlearned and then to learn things so doing the unlearning we basically like we speed sometimes we try to start from scratch white page and then start again but I think this is not not not hundred percent correct so not everything is is to be thrown out this is why I'm trying to like Milla you know we try to back them up should you take either Milla it takes bit of properties you take the Bible tickles I'm trying to say to do here and I think this is what we have to do so it's actually we do not frame them in in this in this expressions on this theological thinking structure but you can show they are there then there they fit in it and there's a system it's not necessarily bad yeah just because someone formalized it this way and he was like who's living in the Middle Ages or whatever and was used by the Catholics it does not necessarily destroy that there is the structure name can we use these words we just have to fill them correctly you're developing in this system if there would be honest about it they came in under the rules of that what's called the prophetic Keys which is foundational to this message and I think if you went through the prophetic Keys you may be able to apply them right into this system right here and find what they like definitely there's a fear I think that's some fear that that we have on words and that I find unnecessary you know it's not that I think we can neglect meaning of words and things like that unimportant but you know if you speak about a system or is to speak about rules if you speak about if I would use term Hammond you take I'm not so afraid of that I'm not saying okay this means that I am like I'm doing like a Catholic thing here you know because and I'm also not saying that we can go the other extreme and say what some item to say we are Catholics because Catholic means we are what does it mean universal and I don't go into it into this extreme you know and saying okay you know the words are no no it's not like that you know but um I think what I've been trying to do is like we take the words we lent them a little bit to to give us a little bit of help or structure and then we can also let them go then and it's I don't say we need to speak about how musics we need to say all the time we are doing historical-critical or in-store grammatical or whatever anyways okay next thing here am point three there's a prophetic approach and once again of course I mean they called it anagogical but it was so their approach in itself when it was called anagogical it was not very clear how to get there you know I call it prophetic 'el and I think we know how to get there how we do this approach because we have rules so it becomes for us a different thing that it might have been in the Middle Ages for them you know they wanted to find a prophetic approach prophetically meaning of something in the Bible we want to do the same this is the only thing that that we have in common just that we know how to do it because the Lord taught us too we have rules to get there they didn't have rules you know and there's rule number seven William Miller visions are always mentioned as such number eight we have read this already another point because it makes two points figures always is the figurative meaning and I use much in prophecy rule thirteen to know whether we have a true historical event for the fulfillment of a prophecy if you find every word of the prophecy is literally fulfilled then you may know that your history is the true event so he gives us direction how to get there how to make this prophetic approach all right but what I have put you in this in this the structure are eight rules I found that eight rules by William Miller can be a support of these four points they differed in their they support a explain these points but there are more ruled so what do we do with the other rules well where are they floating now so I'm from these roots here I think we have we can say we have one two three four points which is the literal approach of this is this is the approach of Bible study you know how to understand the biblical text there is the type of logical just immoral that's a prophetic code so we took some of these routes when we fitted them in here all right they have their place but there are other rules there are six where do we place them or what are they if they are not in this system so what are they and let us when Miller says just a pictures that part of his his his texia are some his forty roots are some of the most important rules which I find the Word of God wants warrants me to adopt and follow in order to for system and regularity so he says there are some of the most important rules which implies that there are others or there more this is one thing I think it's important to see and he doesn't deny that there are other rules that are important but maybe they were just clear or it was not necessary to let him out because everybody understood them you know there was not content on these routes so this is one thing and we can keep in mind all right so and then under the title of xx present positions I think there's not training 21 by by the time I finished it or 22 you know I just yeah this is like a work in progress yeah I took the 15% positions of the after his daughter a grammatical and I try to reread them and firm them or defend them and perhaps we can go through these two these presentations so prism positions are something different in roots right I don't know if I understand it correctly but for me this is like before you can even apply rule you have to agree on something you agree one thing like the first rule it says the Bible is God's Word in its entirety so if you don't even agree on that one then you don't need to proceed Nutan cannot apply the rules because the rules like they have no they have no firm ground to be applied on so these are here like prison positions and I was just doing this quickly and everything that I've liked like shared with you here needs to be revised and I would like to have your input on this and we ought to get a need to to see if these things are so if I put the rules correctly on the place you know I was just I have to suggest some understanding that I'm sharing here with you so let's read these prepositions first the Bible is God's words in it an entire team okay I think that we don't have to say much about this second the Bible by the Canon can only consist of 66 books and does not include the Apocrypha and then you have two texts here from great controversy the introduction where and white says during the ages why descriptions of both the old and new Testament were being given the Holy Spirit did not cease to communicate lie to individual minds apart from revelation to be embodied in this sacred Canaan so in what says there's more inspiration given by the Lord apart from that what we can find in the Bible but there's a sacred cannon the cannon is the 66 books so she's and then you could go in to have to show why she thinks it's the 66 books but and but she recognizes there is a sacred canon yeah this is what what the person says said tonight there is a limited amount of books that contain data in the Bible second text the Apocrypha of the New Testament attempts to supply the silence of the scriptures in reference to the early life of Christ by giving a fancy sketch of his childhood years these writers relate wonderful incidents in miracles with which characterize his childhood this relate fixtures tears and frivolous miracles etc so what and what is saying is she's she's criticizing the New Testament Apocrypha and might not be the best text to to support to see abut but she's she's saying I was one hand there is a sacred Canaan and another thing the Apocrypha you know they are just they are not godly yeah this is what she's saying so she's criticizing and she's not not accepting the apocrypha s inspired and part of the of the bible third point only the Bible texts in the King James Version is determinative so when we're at this point in class it was different right it says only the the original texts or the autographic text is is determinative and what I'm saying and I think this is what our movement believes is that the King James is determinative we have to we have to think about is this is what we are really saying is what we can say and now that there are books upon this topic why is the King James the only trustful Bible in the world there's there's a lot to say about this and we need win I think we need perhaps we need to go and see if there's a soul but I put this in here and I think we may be able to defend it and and I think that Miller also is helping us here he's saying in rule 14 and we can have confidence that he takes that he that takes notice of the sparrow and numbers the hairs of our head will got the translation of his own word and throw a berry around it and prevent those who sincerely trust in God and put implicit confidence in his word from airing far from the truth through though they may not understand Hebrew and Greek so milla in his last rule he tells us basically we can trust the King James Bible you know the Lord has provided this translation for us and you do not need to go in today the old texts this of course is interesting and important in this movement because I was saying something along the line in in Guadeloupe and they said yeah we have also the King James Version translated to French and that's the King James Version in Spanish and that's the King James Version in Portuguese and maybe other languages but no we have to say okay I think this is not this is not this yeah we are not we do not rely on these translations and they are not this is not the determinative text so I don't know if you're happy with this statement here but I just put it in there and I think I think it we can make this point it would think need further explanation when we come to questions like but there are some words that are thrown in one thing there are some words that we suggest a different reading how do we deal with these issues and how would we explain it if we say it's the determinative text something we can investigate yeah I think unless you have some idea already how to explain it what to say for the final authority in theological medicines the Bible itself I just condensed yeah I did the rules of the god these presuppositions of historical grammatical method the final rule final authority intelligible is the Bible itself rule number 5 pamela scripture must be its own expositor since it's a rule of itself etc i think he backs up this this point point number five the literal meaning is the usual one once again for us Corinthians 15 46 we understand this also as well point number six it's necessary to take into account time and circumstance I added this rule this is not this is not it was not there explicitly and in the in the historical grammatical list of prison positions and then we had read read already these statements pattern wide from testimony to ministers considered the circumstances of Jewish nation when the prophecies of Daniel were given and the next text was what she makes a statement on Daniel he was familiar with the circumstances connected with Germany's testimonies etc so I think it is important for our time to make the statement we have to we have to take into account because one thing is that we are attacked that we are not doing this some attack us that we are not doing this and we are doing this all the time it's become recently I think more and more important to understand it is it's important to see which doesn't mean that which does not mean that it always can be done you know and when it cannot be done then we do not go and use critical methodology so archeology if the logic the etc things approach is to find it like to stretch to stretch our our our investigation and it all means we need this no there's not what we are saying well when's once it's provided provided in Scripture first provided the spirit of prophecy then and then provided some sometimes just by implication or by by logic or you know then then we take this and we need it it's good it's important seven a Texan scripture has to be studied in its context I also put this this point in here and great controversy 521 in order to sustain erroneous doctrines or unchristian practices sound will seize upon passages of scripture separated from the context perhaps quoting half of single source is criticizing like the opposite behavior so she says it's important to see it in the context to take into account the context it's also appointed we have been criticized on that we are not doing this we just we are and this is what we say when we tell our people we approve Texas okay this means that we do not we do not look at the contact we just take something all right point eight the body is a literary document I'm not so sure about this point here also do not have enough time to investigate what what it really means so I just put it in here now we may take it out or we may leave it there we may have to explain it and that's one of us isn't sure what it means and if this is a necessary point in a list of things that we would agree on point number nine all books of the Old Testament in New Testament on unity rule number two of of Miller says all scripture is necessary and may be understood by a diligent application and study I think this is part of what he's saying all Scriptures necessary there's a unity and I think you could also find out of and why text it would support this rule here or this present position and number ten which scripture can be used to interpret scripture if you remember one of Miller every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible all scripture number two rule number two ah scriptures necessary may be understood by diligent application of study remember five scripture must be its own expositor since it's a rule of itself so also this point realized is an agreement with Protestant understanding point 11 it is mandatory to use proof texts in order to find the correct meaning of a symbol I also edit this point proof text thing or the can we say proof texting now to use a proof text something that we we do and we acknowledge and we realize is essential it's necessary so I believe this is one of the puzzle positions that we need to to see and to come to an understanding with I know if you want to say some something here it can be Europe must view I can't think my thought through it can be used to interpret or must've you scripture must be used to interpret the scripture what is the case where it must be and it still works and that's what I can't think of I mean let's let us think through an example revelation 7 how you know the winds are is a symbol of Islam here how do you know this and well if we take n white now so in a strict sense it's not Scripture yeah so we do not use scripture and say and white says you know I think I think this is what what it means it can be not it has not to be are you adding are you eventually gonna add the role the spirit prophesying maybe you do already somewhere in here no I you know I don't see myself as the one who's like who has to do this work now you know it's easy I think to to assign someone and say okay formalize this for a movement or something but it's to pick a thing that I can that I think I could I could do and I'm I'm not I don't think that I'm the indicated person to do this you know they have the knowledge the understanding and you know to to like formalize for our movement these are the roots you know so it's totally necessary that we all participate and I can I can start something you know I can write something out and then go and critique it and we find there change it add it you know so if you say this I didn't I haven't I don't have it any and I think yes I think this is a personal position yeah we need to add I think I would eventually we should we should change every word where it says scripture and make it something like inspiration okay maybe that's maybe that's the wrong way of saying that because all the rules we're going to apply to the Bible are going to apply to the Spirit prophecy and you would want that you want that mentioned yeah you know yep I see and I think inspirations sort of like a catch-all term for and you would want things that are spoken today you know things that we know is as inspired rules or inspired things that we deal with you don't want that also to be part of those kind of things I think maybe doubt though good bit Hey because it seems like this system is made to determine the third one say it again just did one say it again what's the third one this system that it's being developed here is made to interpret or defend or uphold that third what was the third that I was saying I I said I would use inspiration instead of yes scripture sort of as a catch-all and then I wish did you have the Bible given spirit prophecy and you have things today you know that are you know that we know are inspired thought this you know like this that the Lord is like the definition of the everlasting gospel yeah something like that and brown saying the first two in what we're doing today are sort of the rule that establishes we're gonna test what we're saying today by those things I guess there's yep okay good let you two go out this far away today you're in version 1.1 yeah because every truth that we because there's no one Elijah and this movement because every truth that we are we had understanding is comes out of of a work that a group is doing I think this is this is our reality there may be someone who comes up first with something but then the next one comes add something and then this is how it works I don't mind it okay I I I don't have a problem that I like I continue this and then I you know and but I'm sure that there many brethren in this movement that have some good insights that would be so I'm not trying to to flee you know there's another I'm saying that's not regarding the point that did you just said and yeah this is but I don't have like an answer for what Bronwyn said on 0.3 let think about it yes number where we twelve scription in translation of the King James person is in errant and not contradictory so once again they said scripture in its original form or in the the r2p autographic text is inerrant and not contradictory I think we have to say the King James Version but then again you need to define a little bit more what this means it's in errant but we need to have an inherent text don't we and when we we don't have a text we say this is an errand then then you opened it off for many things I mean you know you need something you say this is God's Word is reliable had a percent so rule rule number fourteen I think we already made a point we already mentioned this rule and in the last set of in the in the list of this four points here that we have can relay rely on what the Lord is saying right at the end and we can have confidence that he that takes notice of the sparrow and numbers of the hands overhead will guard a translation of his own word and throw a barrier on it and prevent those who sincerely trust it sincerely trust in God etc 13 justification by faith is the chief article of the whole Bible this one was one of their points and I'm I'm not sure if we need to keep this in here it was such an important piece of position it's important for us it's it's I'm not sure if this is like it for the position it needs to be pointed out because there are many truths and the Bible have many important things that we we all agree we agree on we have to come but if this is a presupposition on how to study the Bible and kind of thinking this is not necessary to have it like here as one one in the list for them what's what was very important because like next page 38 and what says the themes of justification by faith the righteousness of Christ should be present in our schools so if she says she puts us in a list to just who can face the direction of Christ so should we make this also in for the position the return of Christ I don't know if this needs to be like this one point as a present position then we this habit would be there also necessary perhaps and other things like we don't need like all the all the pillars of our face being like preserve positions nothing this is maybe a part of a category so the aspects in which we believe which should be taught rather than you know justification by faith as is there something that you said that triggered my thought process these are the things that we're to teach our children yes so there are many things it's not one for the position it's it's it goes into different set of beliefs oh I don't know what but it's perhaps not because this years how do we study the Bible how you know what what do we agree on when we want to study the Bible I think these are the presuppositions so I think that is the main category and then under that yeah so you're thinking in there like from like computer active mystical like structures you know if you might if you would make folders you know there's one main folder and what is the second which polar discos and this is kind of hahaha I wanted to understand this also you know the whole Bible is Christocentric is also something like that you know and what is pretty clear some quotes here in there untainted purity and spotless perfection Christ looks upon his people as the reward of all his sufferings his humiliation his love in the supplement of his glory Christ this great Center from which radiates all glory there are several other texts maybe maybe this is one one good point here to heaven in this list I'm also not so Hannah person sure on this one I suppose a position but maybe yeah this is one good point yeah it was there I don't know the the context of this of that statement but was there a demand where people didn't think it was Christian that the Bible was jinan history of that well I don't know his job that I only know the history since 1919 and that's kind of that was the first place my mind ran to was you know 1919 but I know that this is obviously predating that rule is predating that or that presupposition is predating that so I'm initially hesitant to add something like that in there because of the credence it kind of gives to it even though it's true 100% yeah exit Creed instead of 1919 a little bit yeah it gives but at the same time in our fight again against the Christocentric approach people continuously they they they criticize us that we don't speak about Christ you know it's not in there and we don't say it but for us it's always in there it's always the center it's it's we cannot imagine that someone would say believe it's not in there you know for this reason I think it's perhaps would puts we would need some clarification on that perhaps this yeah I don't know if this answers anything but before coming here I had the understanding of play background it wasn't Christ speaking to Moses at the burning bush it was just God so this was the first place that I found that saw Christ throughout the entire Bible so that's that's where I I feel this upholds the Christian centricity but in reading some of the content the criticisms online about Luther's Christos centricity I don't I guess how he applied it I don't feel like we're applying it or maybe I'm misunderstanding their criticisms but Christ is definitely a person I met 15 there's one of the points I'm not I'm not understanding well enough law and gospel must kept separate I don't understand why they put it divided so important to them and I have a question mark here I don't know but 16 I think we we need to say prophecy gospel and prophecy must kept United or our unity or something like something like that because of this because of the of the division that it churches is is doing here separates and we have to recognize that these things are not separated there are one prophecy and gospel and harmony one thing prophecy explains us how the gospel is put into practice or supplied 17 the Holy Spirit is yes sorry Christmas century I think this this quotation from I think many people misunderstand the way we study the the Bible in this movement because when they think about Christmas century they think they necessarily must see the word Christ yeah in everything that we do but I think that is surface understanding I think this quote from the start of Ages page 799 paragraph to help us to understand that it is Christ who speaks through all the prophetic to the inspired Word the whole Bible is spoken surprised if we see this desist it is the voice of Christ that speaks through patriarchs and prophets from the days of Adam even to the close since of time the savior is revealed in the Old Testament as clearly as in the new so this was 799 yes South h's of the authorities it is then it is the light from the prophetic past that brings out the life of Christ and the teachings of the New Testament with clearness and beauty the miracles of Christ are a proof of his divinity but a stronger proof that he is the worst Redeemer is found in comparing the prophecies of the Old Testament so I think that yes that the entire scripture was giving through was given to man through Christ and we know is from the father to the son and from the Sun through angels and then the the human element the prophet of the patriarchal so in that sense I understand the Bible to be Christocentric the entire Bible thank you yes I agree this era there's something about I think it says something like in the revelation we see the Christ this would be in yes okay okay thank you rule 17 the holy spirit is a true interpreter of the Bible okay I think we don't need to say much about this there's a Bible text 18 the Bible is profitable and necessary for men this was I think their last rule and then we can put anything we can put in this famous text from second messages volume 3 never are we absent from the mind of God God is our joy our salvation each of the ancient prophets spoke less for our time for their time than four hours so that the prophesying is in force for us etc I think this text is there might be more of course but this is one of the texted Beck's this idea it's profitable for us you know it's necessary for men I'm saying we should even change a little bit the wording here but it's the Bible the prophecies of the Bible the Bible is speaking about all generations I'm learning along the line yes concern about parable is how we interpret them because something that I learned early on there this moment was acted parables where brother judge basically explains how when you read something in the Bible we had to understand that even though it literally occurred like say the history of David and Michelle that you still have to dissect it like as if it was a parable even though it actually occurred and it wasn't a parable like the Richmond and lanterns so that's something for me that is very important to first Corinthians 10 11 to lay out because then in our time we can see okay when well when I read the story of the event ambition of I have to understand what what is a significant of you know the profits speaking to him and rebuking him and the occurrences between him and budget but things like that so I think that's an important principle as well active parables so that it really unlocks why for example Esther we can just dissect Vashti and hussars for art time in our applications rather than just seen it as okay we'll just he was a bad crow keen and she was a goodly wife for not one to come out and among his drunken friends so rather than say it's profitable necessary so you I think we can formalize a little bit differently what's interesting is kind of what you suggest it's it's applicable for us or it's speaking about about our time what's referring to the last generation yeah I see what you mean yeah it was just you know I it's I just took the principal systems of them and then I like added some support you know and see if we can hold it up or if we if you see differently then we need to then go through the wording 19 nothing revealed in the scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith not wavering this is now this these are not this is not Miller I think this is also this is not in there and they're for the positions of the of the Protestants this is this rule here I think it's a good very important prisoner position everything can be understood it will not be hid you know 20 gotta close the end from the beginning I also just put this in here's one one prison position yeah pressing this is 21 the Bible is a prophetic book God speaks through prophecy in all books of the Bible Canon have a prophetic message can you think of any book that does not have a prophetic message last thing we can say all of them had a prophetic message in distance and this is an important as in prison position that we would we would find we would see today last I just put the line up on line I don't know if to suppress a position of this is something ads will just take a technique and once again this is not this is not finished here yes can you make an old statement Oh whole sentence if you just put in the effective every room is no buddy no yeah is that all the stories in the Bible yeah come down and have a direct application in our time yeah maybe this is a this is a it goes into eighteen uh-huh okay so I'm not I have not been trying to force something he but I'm I'm curious how many how many numbers we will have in this list should be interesting but I don't know yet because some we have to take out some we have to change or put together one like we've done here it wouldn't matter if you had quite a few yes I think this is OK for the beginning maybe yes because sometimes we try to make it perfect and hundred percent good but it's then it takes months and years and then you never have something in your hand you know so and then just to finish then I put here a new category additional techniques apart from the rules and present positions to study the body we also have come to understand a series of techniques that uncover hidden prophetic meaning I think what I listed here is not these these are not roots these are not technically these are not preserve positions but these are techniques that we did we have in our hand to go then after agreed on oppressor positions after having understood through where we go we agreed as positions then we do now the prophetic all and then we do not a perfect then we have these techniques or rules or they're not perhaps these are rules or tools yes yeah maybe yeah and I'm not sure excuse number one it's the rule number five number four per million Pamela to understand doctrine bring all the scriptures together so this is a this is not a present position this is a tool yeah number two the trip application of prophecy these are tools the 3 + 1 combination then that many numbers and babble it's a symbolic meaning I don't know how to formalize this as a point but repeating large I put word patterns like doubling and these are tools that I don't know how we can formalize this like practice your roofers mention what else you remember I mean that these are the things that you find in the in the prophetic tees many of them Andrea okay what someone else something alright and so to resume um this is I think start into trying to formalize our approach how we study the Bible and throughout the years I remember that many people ask us how shall we study you know what shall we do first and people think seek for for guidance and seek for structure some people are they are very organized in their mind they need a structure and if you have just rules they okay but this is not also and then feel a little bit lost and let's work let's continue to work on this and I'll definitely continue to work on this one here and happy alright so I'm wondering but for those here and those and rather brother will see this class how would you want them to respond to address list would you want to give your email or send it to future for Americus through the prophets or how would you want to get feedback from others what's the best way um yeah my email I think makes sense right you can blend it in there in the video and then I think other people with a youtube comment I guess I will look there huh you like that no no I mean you don't have a permit it depends on I can still choose not not to answer those email no I'll do my best actually a document that says of the rules of interpretation the best where he has like local and I don't think that it's such a problem to to bring these points together but the challenge is now to explain these and defend these rules some rules are not I think lose we're came up with a couple of them but I read a little bit of him and I don't find every of these rules very very clear how he already how he defends them sometimes it's just yeah you know and we take many things for granted but I think when we do this then we need to go further and we need to like explain and we need to come up with a good explanation why we use this rule and why it's important where do we find where does it come from you know did we just find it or it's rude at the battle and produces gives us the church in an organized fashion you could it could be could go pretty quickly if we committed to doing it as a group okay let's talk about after class about this how this could be practically done no I thank you very much because I think this is it's very good it's very necessary sometimes they're good ideas and good initiatives and then it stands there and doesn't nothing happens you know so I didn't need to take the next step and I appreciate this very much brother Tyler yeah okay no and the classes coming out on the end of this class but end of trimester so all of you who those of you who watched the whole video the whole presentations know you know and this trimester officially has ended next trimester will start when it is announced all right hope this whole Tremezzo has been a blessing and God bless you new studies thank you very much it's closing prayer father in heaven we thank you we had the blessed time together and I remember I recall the presentation for the pomander the bread of the presentation with the different speakers brother Jeff brother Noel but at a bow I wasn't all the time here so there were other speakers as well but we Thank You Heavenly Father so much for this time that we could have in this trimester to continue to understand your word and hopefully be a blessing for many others who participate in this in these classes for video bless us and in this specific approach that we are taking here trying to understand what we are doing more precisely trying to formalize it it's your will you decide that we do so please guide us give us understanding and that we may succeed and that we may also be able to do all this in a in a way that it won't take too long so it can be a benefit pretty soon too many of us how many Father we praise you in Christ's name Amen